I'm sure there is something i am missing with this set, but how does the atk speed effect shield bash? Wouldnt it be better to use cinder coat, magefist and Andariel's Visage to boost fire dmg and a RORG to maintain 4 set?
Like i said im sure there is something i dont understand or i am missing as to why the atk speed on the set unless it is for the sweep attack. Please help me with any info you may have to help clear up my misunderstanding.
Thanks for your time and have a good day.
It serves only one purpose, and that is to help reset the cool downs affected by the set that much faster. When you use the set without the 6p bonus you really notice the downtime on IS/Law/Sglare.
LOL holy fak this class is getting trolled hard by the devs. Literally every single idea suggested in this forum and the bnet forum was better than this "buff" to sweep attack.
Hang on to pieces with optimal rolls. As far as clear times go I think the idea is to have the sets be roughly equal, Condemn being faster for trash and Rolands for the RG, pylons notwithstanding.
One thing that needs desperate attention are the animations of shield bash/punish and how those imputs respond when you've got the set bonus stacked to max.
It is as though the game gets stuck bashing, if you hold down bash for any amount of time it can flat out prevent the use of other abilities, this isn't anything new but tonight I was noticing that when I stopped holding bash it took a moment for anything else to become available, as though the attacks were in a q. Which would make sense with the buff, hold down bash for x amount of seconds the game calculates an amount of attacks that should be performed and proceeds, however it prevents defensive skills/generators from functioning properly.
I haven't been able to get in and test this week but RRoG as far as crusaders go in terms of our greater rift pure dps set ups is almost always a damage loss. The legendary affix of the ring is for us very weak relative to a Barb or DH because our generators/spenders are just not strong enough to allow room for a key equip slot to do nothing other than to let you equip Cinder and maintain the 6 set bonus.
This debate came up with the old firestarter build as well, did cinder coat give rcr plus the elemental fire % increase? Yes. Did running 6 peice akkhan with a proper soj/unity destroy that AK5/CC? Yes. Eventually you have to pay for RCR or any stat stacking and when it came right down to it RRoG/CC combo for firestarter degraded your damage too much when you really needed it, for speedy elite/rift guardian kills.
As far as I know the only time attack speed does adjust raw damage is in the case of pets, otherwise it is just simply a faster attack animation. So it ends up being a crap shoot, in a perfect world where you could have 100% up time yes the APS/RCR may boost your damage enough to compete with other set ups. In reality you have to kite, are going to have down time and may have had a better result increasing your raw damage per wrath spent, which aps does not do.
I'm curious about the R3/Ak3 but don't have the time to sit in q this week at all, so if you tried that out ivory what were your thoughts?
The problem with RoRG is it doesn't do anything but allow you to keep the six set bonus, and that bonus may be overshadowed by other ring slots and R4, considering how poor the six piece actually is. I'm all for generators being in builds but I tried with the new FR and resource generation with glare/provoke still feels stronger than no generator at all. Even with PM/LOV UF our generators don't keep up with the demands of shield bash, and shield bash already is not meeting the damage requirements for higher grs.
Looks like we're not getting that new gem, so that may be that for Rolands. The answer isn't nerfing barbs, that fixes none of our problems as crusaders and only adds to forum garbage. We should be brought up, same as Wich Doc's and here's why: You can't fight power creep, eventually the game will be nothing but Barbs,DH,Monk and WIz ie classes that can go higher gr's in season three. Which makes sense, if you have the option to drive a Ferarri why the fuck would you drive a Chevette? If you're not born in the 80's make that a smart car or some other piece of shit set of wheels.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16647734702 Good thread, if you have suggestions keep it positive, its not my thread. If you think Rolands is "fine" as is, feel free to post that as well, but at your own risk much like me Walkin inspects profiles and calls shenanigans on trolls.
Hoping for a revert but people will have to post in the official forums in a constructive way to have that addressed. My initial reaction to the nerf was "let's see how this pans out with pylons and the new gem."
After one just one grift I decided that if pylon hunting is the meta once again I'm finished with this game. It is a shit meta, and its even more shit when you've experienced the play on both sides, with and without the pylons in gr. The model that leaves the power in the actual classes and sets was far better than having the pylons in greater rifts. Now consider the very real imbalances that exist on the current ptr in regards to sets and combine that with pylons.
Really funny to me that every leader board looks to have been re set except our seasonal where Manner had the 54 clear. Wonder why that is?
Suggest to the dh community that they play with the dr restrictions wd has, also suggest that sentries have the same health pools and the same durability.
They'll tell you that would make the class not viable for higher gr levels and they'd be right. So, knowing that and knowing that tiki fear doesn't stop all affixes (nor should it) how is it ok for wd's to be stuck with a particular set of out of date mechanics while other classes are not? Not saying "nerf everything to be as bad/worse than wd pet dps builds" what I'm saying is fix the pet builds.
WD pets make up a large part of the damage a pet WD does, most of the actions a pet wd performs revolve around keeping the pets alive, buffing the pets, and making sure that you're spawning passive pets if you are talented that way.
Someone at Blizz shit the bed hard with that Zuni set. One look at that 6pc bonus...trash.
The % damage for all pets was just an idea but WD does not have to be revolved around only pets build. This idea is just for people who enjoy pets build more without having to choose which pets they should buff. This could be possible or not though.
And i agree about the 6pcs bonus for the zuni set but time will only tell if they can come out with a better one
I was just using the T-DPS model as an example, one style uses sac:PtP for a fairly good but very short damage boost etc. Either way won't really matter too much, Blizzard has no idea how to handle WD's after the hoopla in the summer with Jade/MOJ. Too bad that in a free to play game they still feel the need to cater to the communities they do, whilst spitting on other communities.
How should zuni look though? Ring slot-gone. 2 set could be a reduction on cd of all skills when pets attack/or a % damage mod for every pet you have out, plus area damage for pets. 4 set could be pets no longer die, and you take a reduced% of damage for every pet out. 6 set could be Spender/generator use summons a fetish sicophant, cap is same as the passive and either utility or a damage modifier.
It's not really hard to make a game fun, it is hard to shuck and jive and convince people they are having fun. This is why Blizz spends 3 months and a whole weekend at Blizzcon apologizing to the D3 community though. Again they aren't apologizing to every class in the community, and in fact are keeping some classes happy by keeping others under wraps.
Tested for a few minutes with and without bastion of will, either way the Bracer nerf was over board. The 6 piece is awful as well, back to being wrath starved especially on RG's. The lack of aoe/single target damage after the bracer nerf feels poor. Very poor. Perhaps we need the new gem but I couldn't get one to drop last night.
The damage cut was strange, I had a pair of bracers with 391% and those ended up going to 165%, while my holy bracers had 345% and ended up @ 185%. Both damage and resource cost nerfed.
TL:DR Blizzard is the death of fun. Also need to see what that new gem does before I believe that they killed the build with one patch, but if that new gem isn't amazing then this build just went RIP.
Test for yourselves, go to the official forum and demand a change. Ignore the trolls, there are many or tell them to write their own feedback threads if they have a problem, because not sucking is amazing.
Suggest to the dh community that they play with the dr restrictions wd has, also suggest that sentries have the same health pools and the same durability.
They'll tell you that would make the class not viable for higher gr levels and they'd be right. So, knowing that and knowing that tiki fear doesn't stop all affixes (nor should it) how is it ok for wd's to be stuck with a particular set of out of date mechanics while other classes are not? Not saying "nerf everything to be as bad/worse than wd pet dps builds" what I'm saying is fix the pet builds.
WD pets make up a large part of the damage a pet WD does, most of the actions a pet wd performs revolve around keeping the pets alive, buffing the pets, and making sure that you're spawning passive pets if you are talented that way.
Someone at Blizz shit the bed hard with that Zuni set. One look at that 6pc bonus...trash.
They need to try and balance 1h and 2h (with the respective talents) to make them roughly equal. Not sure how that would work though...
Not sure myself and to be honest I don't think its a realistic goal to normalize 1h/2h damage. The problem with that is the base damage on 2h weps especially maces being so much higher. It would probably require special casing in addition to re building the 1h flails, and considering what Blizzard did to Darklight I don't see them making 1h viable for grs anytime soon. Having the option to z-dps really seems to fuck classes over in the long run, just another 'balance' brought to you by blizzard.
Same thing on my non season dh, I've got a calamity/ancient kshot/ancient arc barb. The barb shits on the other 2 because of the higher base damage, and since cluster arrow is the go to at the moment on live the 'barb rules.
Its funny when I go to the Official forums and see the odd thread asking for HS pentalty to be removed all the op get's is replies from people who farm T6 on alt crusaders who mock the idea. That seems to be a huge problem with this class, no established community, worse yet we get these alt 'saders trolling more often than not and shutting down legit threads, with a few idiot catch phrases. I'm banned from official forum after the release of the Rolands set, also for how they've handled the Wich Doctor so I can't call idiots like that out but when all blues see is threads like that just flopping then why would they ever think to redesign that passive?
Nice try on the 55 MC caught that on Twitch yesterday. You think 58 do able with the right adds/RG?
Kinda wish they'd add a really strong 1h flail... Maybe even bake the current shield bash damage passive into a Mace instead of the current bracers...
I'm just getting bored of Heavenly Strength being all but mandatory for all builds.
The problem with one handers is that they've dated themselves, and in nearly every case were garbage to begin with if you look at our specific 1h flails. The old 1h's need a ground up redesign, and the penalty from Heavenly Strength needs to go.
That is also a dated mechanic from when we were able to circumvent the 20% debuff with Hellskull/Holy Cause.
Would like to see a redesign on flails and HS, and if HS gets re tuned Fervor would then need another look.
Not getting the results I want with the sweep build in its current state, testing pure shield bash with crumble now.
I haven't tried a Cinder coat for anything other than T6 farming, wrath isn't an issue and either Broken promises/Zodiac make up for the 20% fire damage affix with their affixes. Ancient Maximus would be a source for the elemental damage and wouldn't cost you the damage/utility from a ring slot.
RRoG doesn't bring enough to compete with other options for one slot, as we're probably going to be sticking with unity. Personally I hate RRoG on the crusader class,none of the off pieces you could equip are stronger than the set bonuses with either Focus and Restraint, Broken Promise or Zodiac, with the adjustments made to Roland's resource management is much smoother than before.
You can uphold Taeguk, the sweep/shield bash build I was playing around with stacked the gem very quickly and just shield bash will also do this. It isn't a big deal to drop the stack at any point unless its the last pull before the rg either, but it does make for a longer fight.
Hard to say with holy, I have the gear so I can test but as I remember the proc rate for mir with sb wasn't great. Will get back to you.
You could go a pure SB build stacking physical with SB:Cross/IS:Flash/SG:Zealous/AC:Prophet/LoV:UF and Consecrate. Con has some interesting options, you can use Bathed in Light for healing, Frozen ground for kiting or Fearful for large add/elite sniping. Passives are: Heavenly Strength, Indy,Towering,Finery. I have to play around with the passives but with the lag on ptr Indy is a real life saver, and a very nice dps boost when you intentionally proc it and pop AC.
Furnace or Heart slaughter as weapon choices, Unity/Broken promises as rings. Gems I use are Goguk,Taeguk,Bane of the Trapped.
You can also swap physical for fire and use the above talent selection (Shield Bash Crumble) with Maximus. Same rings and gems.
Something different is a build I'm working on that uses Golden Flense/Piro Marella in conjunction with the Zodiac ring and an Ess of Johan on follower for faster cdr resets. This build uses sweep to hit 8+ targets and is centered around resetting cool downs as fast as possible using sweep, which has a far greater synergy with the Zodiac ring due to faster attacks. You use SB to zip around, collect some adds, pop AC:P, and Flense into the mob when your follower's Ess procs. Using crumble to max effect try and aim for the lowest hp adds on the outside of the pack, to proc the explosion from death into the largest possible number of adds from the Ess grouping.
This build drops Consecrate for Sweep Attack,everything else including the passives remains the same. At the moment I'm using Blazing Sweep/Crumble, I've tried the build as physical with a Pain Enhancer and just don't care for it, however that build resets cool downs very very quickly due to the IAS effect of PE. I'm convinced that you get less overall damage output from SB:Cross if not using a Furnace or Heart Slaughter, but I could be wrong. Fire with this setup just seems to fit much better than physical.
0
Maybe in T6 when you don't have to move for shit : )
0
It serves only one purpose, and that is to help reset the cool downs affected by the set that much faster. When you use the set without the 6p bonus you really notice the downtime on IS/Law/Sglare.
0
LOL holy fak this class is getting trolled hard by the devs. Literally every single idea suggested in this forum and the bnet forum was better than this "buff" to sweep attack.
0
Hang on to pieces with optimal rolls. As far as clear times go I think the idea is to have the sets be roughly equal, Condemn being faster for trash and Rolands for the RG, pylons notwithstanding.
One thing that needs desperate attention are the animations of shield bash/punish and how those imputs respond when you've got the set bonus stacked to max.
It is as though the game gets stuck bashing, if you hold down bash for any amount of time it can flat out prevent the use of other abilities, this isn't anything new but tonight I was noticing that when I stopped holding bash it took a moment for anything else to become available, as though the attacks were in a q. Which would make sense with the buff, hold down bash for x amount of seconds the game calculates an amount of attacks that should be performed and proceeds, however it prevents defensive skills/generators from functioning properly.
0
Really interesting read http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16646354826
0
I haven't been able to get in and test this week but RRoG as far as crusaders go in terms of our greater rift pure dps set ups is almost always a damage loss. The legendary affix of the ring is for us very weak relative to a Barb or DH because our generators/spenders are just not strong enough to allow room for a key equip slot to do nothing other than to let you equip Cinder and maintain the 6 set bonus.
This debate came up with the old firestarter build as well, did cinder coat give rcr plus the elemental fire % increase? Yes. Did running 6 peice akkhan with a proper soj/unity destroy that AK5/CC? Yes. Eventually you have to pay for RCR or any stat stacking and when it came right down to it RRoG/CC combo for firestarter degraded your damage too much when you really needed it, for speedy elite/rift guardian kills.
As far as I know the only time attack speed does adjust raw damage is in the case of pets, otherwise it is just simply a faster attack animation. So it ends up being a crap shoot, in a perfect world where you could have 100% up time yes the APS/RCR may boost your damage enough to compete with other set ups. In reality you have to kite, are going to have down time and may have had a better result increasing your raw damage per wrath spent, which aps does not do.
I'm curious about the R3/Ak3 but don't have the time to sit in q this week at all, so if you tried that out ivory what were your thoughts?
0
The problem with RoRG is it doesn't do anything but allow you to keep the six set bonus, and that bonus may be overshadowed by other ring slots and R4, considering how poor the six piece actually is. I'm all for generators being in builds but I tried with the new FR and resource generation with glare/provoke still feels stronger than no generator at all. Even with PM/LOV UF our generators don't keep up with the demands of shield bash, and shield bash already is not meeting the damage requirements for higher grs.
Looks like we're not getting that new gem, so that may be that for Rolands. The answer isn't nerfing barbs, that fixes none of our problems as crusaders and only adds to forum garbage. We should be brought up, same as Wich Doc's and here's why: You can't fight power creep, eventually the game will be nothing but Barbs,DH,Monk and WIz ie classes that can go higher gr's in season three. Which makes sense, if you have the option to drive a Ferarri why the fuck would you drive a Chevette? If you're not born in the 80's make that a smart car or some other piece of shit set of wheels.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16647734702 Good thread, if you have suggestions keep it positive, its not my thread. If you think Rolands is "fine" as is, feel free to post that as well, but at your own risk much like me Walkin inspects profiles and calls shenanigans on trolls.
0
Hoping for a revert but people will have to post in the official forums in a constructive way to have that addressed. My initial reaction to the nerf was "let's see how this pans out with pylons and the new gem."
After one just one grift I decided that if pylon hunting is the meta once again I'm finished with this game. It is a shit meta, and its even more shit when you've experienced the play on both sides, with and without the pylons in gr. The model that leaves the power in the actual classes and sets was far better than having the pylons in greater rifts. Now consider the very real imbalances that exist on the current ptr in regards to sets and combine that with pylons.
Really funny to me that every leader board looks to have been re set except our seasonal where Manner had the 54 clear. Wonder why that is?
0
I was just using the T-DPS model as an example, one style uses sac:PtP for a fairly good but very short damage boost etc. Either way won't really matter too much, Blizzard has no idea how to handle WD's after the hoopla in the summer with Jade/MOJ. Too bad that in a free to play game they still feel the need to cater to the communities they do, whilst spitting on other communities.
How should zuni look though? Ring slot-gone. 2 set could be a reduction on cd of all skills when pets attack/or a % damage mod for every pet you have out, plus area damage for pets. 4 set could be pets no longer die, and you take a reduced% of damage for every pet out. 6 set could be Spender/generator use summons a fetish sicophant, cap is same as the passive and either utility or a damage modifier.
It's not really hard to make a game fun, it is hard to shuck and jive and convince people they are having fun. This is why Blizz spends 3 months and a whole weekend at Blizzcon apologizing to the D3 community though. Again they aren't apologizing to every class in the community, and in fact are keeping some classes happy by keeping others under wraps.
0
Tested for a few minutes with and without bastion of will, either way the Bracer nerf was over board. The 6 piece is awful as well, back to being wrath starved especially on RG's. The lack of aoe/single target damage after the bracer nerf feels poor. Very poor. Perhaps we need the new gem but I couldn't get one to drop last night.
The damage cut was strange, I had a pair of bracers with 391% and those ended up going to 165%, while my holy bracers had 345% and ended up @ 185%. Both damage and resource cost nerfed.
TL:DR Blizzard is the death of fun. Also need to see what that new gem does before I believe that they killed the build with one patch, but if that new gem isn't amazing then this build just went RIP.
Test for yourselves, go to the official forum and demand a change. Ignore the trolls, there are many or tell them to write their own feedback threads if they have a problem, because not sucking is amazing.
0
Suggest to the dh community that they play with the dr restrictions wd has, also suggest that sentries have the same health pools and the same durability.
They'll tell you that would make the class not viable for higher gr levels and they'd be right. So, knowing that and knowing that tiki fear doesn't stop all affixes (nor should it) how is it ok for wd's to be stuck with a particular set of out of date mechanics while other classes are not? Not saying "nerf everything to be as bad/worse than wd pet dps builds" what I'm saying is fix the pet builds.
WD pets make up a large part of the damage a pet WD does, most of the actions a pet wd performs revolve around keeping the pets alive, buffing the pets, and making sure that you're spawning passive pets if you are talented that way.
Someone at Blizz shit the bed hard with that Zuni set. One look at that 6pc bonus...trash.
0
Not sure myself and to be honest I don't think its a realistic goal to normalize 1h/2h damage. The problem with that is the base damage on 2h weps especially maces being so much higher. It would probably require special casing in addition to re building the 1h flails, and considering what Blizzard did to Darklight I don't see them making 1h viable for grs anytime soon. Having the option to z-dps really seems to fuck classes over in the long run, just another 'balance' brought to you by blizzard.
Same thing on my non season dh, I've got a calamity/ancient kshot/ancient arc barb. The barb shits on the other 2 because of the higher base damage, and since cluster arrow is the go to at the moment on live the 'barb rules.
Its funny when I go to the Official forums and see the odd thread asking for HS pentalty to be removed all the op get's is replies from people who farm T6 on alt crusaders who mock the idea. That seems to be a huge problem with this class, no established community, worse yet we get these alt 'saders trolling more often than not and shutting down legit threads, with a few idiot catch phrases. I'm banned from official forum after the release of the Rolands set, also for how they've handled the Wich Doctor so I can't call idiots like that out but when all blues see is threads like that just flopping then why would they ever think to redesign that passive?
Nice try on the 55 MC caught that on Twitch yesterday. You think 58 do able with the right adds/RG?
0
The problem with one handers is that they've dated themselves, and in nearly every case were garbage to begin with if you look at our specific 1h flails. The old 1h's need a ground up redesign, and the penalty from Heavenly Strength needs to go.
That is also a dated mechanic from when we were able to circumvent the 20% debuff with Hellskull/Holy Cause.
Would like to see a redesign on flails and HS, and if HS gets re tuned Fervor would then need another look.
0
Not getting the results I want with the sweep build in its current state, testing pure shield bash with crumble now.
I haven't tried a Cinder coat for anything other than T6 farming, wrath isn't an issue and either Broken promises/Zodiac make up for the 20% fire damage affix with their affixes. Ancient Maximus would be a source for the elemental damage and wouldn't cost you the damage/utility from a ring slot.
RRoG doesn't bring enough to compete with other options for one slot, as we're probably going to be sticking with unity. Personally I hate RRoG on the crusader class,none of the off pieces you could equip are stronger than the set bonuses with either Focus and Restraint, Broken Promise or Zodiac, with the adjustments made to Roland's resource management is much smoother than before.
You can uphold Taeguk, the sweep/shield bash build I was playing around with stacked the gem very quickly and just shield bash will also do this. It isn't a big deal to drop the stack at any point unless its the last pull before the rg either, but it does make for a longer fight.
0
Hard to say with holy, I have the gear so I can test but as I remember the proc rate for mir with sb wasn't great. Will get back to you.
You could go a pure SB build stacking physical with SB:Cross/IS:Flash/SG:Zealous/AC:Prophet/LoV:UF and Consecrate. Con has some interesting options, you can use Bathed in Light for healing, Frozen ground for kiting or Fearful for large add/elite sniping. Passives are: Heavenly Strength, Indy,Towering,Finery. I have to play around with the passives but with the lag on ptr Indy is a real life saver, and a very nice dps boost when you intentionally proc it and pop AC.
Furnace or Heart slaughter as weapon choices, Unity/Broken promises as rings. Gems I use are Goguk,Taeguk,Bane of the Trapped.
You can also swap physical for fire and use the above talent selection (Shield Bash Crumble) with Maximus. Same rings and gems.
Something different is a build I'm working on that uses Golden Flense/Piro Marella in conjunction with the Zodiac ring and an Ess of Johan on follower for faster cdr resets. This build uses sweep to hit 8+ targets and is centered around resetting cool downs as fast as possible using sweep, which has a far greater synergy with the Zodiac ring due to faster attacks. You use SB to zip around, collect some adds, pop AC:P, and Flense into the mob when your follower's Ess procs. Using crumble to max effect try and aim for the lowest hp adds on the outside of the pack, to proc the explosion from death into the largest possible number of adds from the Ess grouping.
This build drops Consecrate for Sweep Attack,everything else including the passives remains the same. At the moment I'm using Blazing Sweep/Crumble, I've tried the build as physical with a Pain Enhancer and just don't care for it, however that build resets cool downs very very quickly due to the IAS effect of PE. I'm convinced that you get less overall damage output from SB:Cross if not using a Furnace or Heart Slaughter, but I could be wrong. Fire with this setup just seems to fit much better than physical.