Can anyone give me some basic toughness/HP/resists/damage benchmarks for moving up difficulties? From Master on. I know damage is hard to estimate with different affixes but a ballpark figure is fine.
So, I started playing this season on Sunday night, and I can give you a couple thresholds for when you can do what difficulty.
I got lucky during my leveling process and I got an Obsidian ring of the zodiac. This can function as a kinda-sorta-ghetto Nat's 2P, so with it and zero other (effective) legendaries, but fairly decently rolled level 70 rares, I was into Torment 1 in pub games. My AoE was really solid at this point all ready for this difficulty, but elite packs were hard to take out on my own.
Nat's 2P + Obsidian ring (my first nat's piece were the gloves, the second was also gloves so I swapped it to the xbow) got me into T2 pretty comfortably.
Tae'guk's, Bane of the Trapped were both big power spikes. I haven't gotten zei's yet, but that should be another power spike that might let me comfortably solo T8 or so.
Nat's 4P didn't really do much, other than let me solo a little easier.
Crashing Rain let me bump all the way up to about T4 or so, as my elite kill speed went up dramatically.
Nat's 6P was pretty much instantly T6. I had the damage for T7 at that point, but not quite the survivability.
Wrap's of Clarity coupled with Nat's 6P allowed me to comfortably solo T7, and in groups, I can manage T8. I'm not high enough paragon to test out T9 yet though.
T7 was just a tad bit slow until I got a calamity, and then it picked up to be effectively one shotting everything but elites.
I'm still missing Focus (have restraint) and I don't have a good hellfire amulet yet.
The only thing this guy has wrong is where he says 570 armor > 100 all res > 370 armor.
10 armor = 1 all resist. 100 all resist = 1,000 armor. All resist is *always* better than armor in a primary slot, in the amounts they can roll. All res minimum roll is ~80, I think? Which is equivalent to 800 armor, which your gear can't roll as a primary. Wasted slot.
Shoulders should look like this: <Main Stat>, Vit, All Res, [Life %, Cooldown Reduction or Resource Cost Reduction]. For every class, every build. For hardcore, I'd suggest Life %.
Lut Socks - Roll Armor to All Res. As a barb, you're already going to have crazy armor, and additionally, armor is less valuable as a primary than All Res. Also, try to get one with +Health Globe.
Swap out the Vit gem for a Diamond - For T4 or lower, I run all Rubies. For T5, I run 3 rubies, 2 diamonds. For T6, I run all diamonds. If you're cash strapped, run the higher amount of diamonds.
Drop the 3 piece IK for Mage Fist, String of Ears (or Pride of Cassius), Burning Axe of Sankis, and Sunkeeper/Devastator. The Burning Axe will give you a fairly frequent Ignore Pain proc, the Magefist will give you +20% fire damage for free, String of Ears can have up to 30% melee reduction, and Sunkeeper/Devastor will give you more damage to blow things up faster.
MM Needs attack speed so more DoTs will stack on targets for long duration fights
I've seen this said a lot, but I honestly don't understand why attack speed is apparently so vital to mm conflag, shouldn't it be the worst dps stat?(behind cc, cdh, fire, int, dmg). Obviously cdr is 0 benefit compared to ias so its less optimal, but why is attack speed meant to be good for mm?
You could have ias or one of the other more powerful stats, and then each dot would tick harder instead.
Great read on the build. I was looking for a non-pet oriented build to start off my WD, and this looks like a great idea. However, I did read a bit of misinformation. You said that at high levels of gear, 20% cold damage is less valuable than 10% crit. For your current gear profile, here are some relevant numbers. Keep in mind they will be *slightly* different because I don't know your paragon point expenditures:
20% Cold Damage = 148,596 DPS increase
10% Crit (only available on glove/amulet) = 129,548 DPS increase
6% Crit (available on Helm, Rings) = 77,729 DPS increase
100% Crit Damage (available on amulet) = 146,892 DPS increase
If you are paragon 400 and max both crit chance and crit damage, these relationships don't actually change at all - 20% cold jumps to ~173k. 10% crit jumps to ~150k. 50% crit damage jumps to 85k, and 100% crit damage jumps to 171k.
Cold damage is a multiplicative stat and is *always* worth more than any other relevant DPS stat. Since you can effectively ignore attack speed (even more so than everyone else in the game can), you have much easier gear decisions to make. Cold > Crit Chance >= Crit Damage. Always.
And once you have a base level of damage to handle a given torment level's trash mobs, you can then add that Elite Damage % > Cold % > Crit Chance >=Crit Damage (1:10 ratio).
In case you were curious, your profile DPS shows up as 742k, your elemental DPS is 891.5k, and your elemental elite DPS is 1.28m. 44% (29 soj 15 aughild) elite damage is a *massive* increase in DPS.
Surviving unavoidable damage to a certain degree doesn't fit my definition of a glass cannon, aleast not on t6.
There are also definetly fire CA builds which don't need a cindercoat in some sort BiS situation, we have quite a good set of abilities to catch the high resource costs otherwise. Cindercoat is a thing mostly bound by smoke screen, both have strong alternatvies viable for t6.
Cindercoat is bound by smoke screen? This does not make sense.
For BiS Fire builds, this is what you're working with:
Helm - Pride's Fall is BiS for groups. Otherwise, Andariel's. The only way to drop PF is with Reaper's Wrap, which has issues below.
Gloves + Chest - Magefist + Cindercoat. It's pretty hard to top 40% fire damage and 30% resource reduction, which realistically only comes at the cost of either 1 Vit roll or 1 All Res roll. I don't think you can make a case for any other chest/glove combo in the game right now.
Shoulder + Bracer - Aughild's. This plus Ring of Royal Grandeur is pretty much impossible to top. 7% reduced damage from everything, 15% additionally reduced from elite's, and 15% increased damage to elites. Nothing else comes close. This is why I'm not using Reaper's Wraps on high torments. Though, for lower torments where you're already one shotting elites, RW can let you drop Pride's Fall and vault through T1 rifts faster.
Ammy - Pick whichever immunity necklace will drop for you with the right stats. I still haven't found one.
Boots + Pants - Captain Crimson is a good choice, or Nat's boots + ring. These slots I think have the most freedom to play around with, depending on the drops you get.
Rings - Ring of Royal Grandeur is kind of mandatory. SOJ or Nat's ring for other slot.
Weapon - Kridershot or Calamity, or Nat's (with the ring). Danetta's might also be good.
Quiver or DW - drop dependent.
Belt - Witching Hour, or the belt that drops the confuse/blind bubble (I have it, it's ridiculously strong on T5-6).
The SOJ will be better. It'll be WAY better if you can roll the % life on your SOJ over to crit, unless you had to roll the elemental damage into something else.
For trash mobs, losing 15-18% damage from the yellow ring is mostly made up by the +18% lightning damage. This is because the character sheet is completely lying to you. The formula is this (Skill Damage) * (+% Skill Damage) * (+% Elemental Damage) * (+% Elite Damage). Within skill damage, you already take into account crit chance, crit damage, and attack speed, so the 18% elemental damage gets applied after that. Massive, massive upgrade while wind sheering. Trash kill speed should stay relatively the same. Since you have 13% + ww and +18% lightning damage (46% total), you multiply them together with the rest. Your total modifier in the first example is 1.13*1.32 = 1.49. In the second, it's 1.64. We can use the character sheet dps as a ROUGH estimate for baseline unbuffed DPS, but know that it's going to be off by a bit.
Total DPS 1: 889,728 * 1.49 = 1,325,694
Total DPS 2: 749,762 * 1.64 = 1,229,609
So, a ~7% DPS loss on trash. It should actually be a little closer, but depends on the %Weapon Damage that Wind Sheer has (the higher %wd on your skill, the more these modifiers effect it, as they stack multiplicatively with the weapon damage %). Roughly negligible. Also keep in mind that with buffs, your gap should also close a bit more.
For elites, this should be much much better. Case 1 stays the same at 1.3mil dps, while case 2 gets a 2.09 multiplier instead of 1.64. That puts you at 1,567,002 DPS, or an increase of about ~14%. Again, this will be exaggerated with buffs, as everything kind of feeds on each other.
So, depending what you're doing, the SoJ should be an upgrade, as your trash kill speed is going to be fairly similar, but your elite kill speed will be much improved.
If anyone knows the actual DPS calculation formula, I can make a little spreadsheet to plug things in, but I don't know it other than how ele and skill damage bonuses get entered.
Hi, thanks for the comment, glad you're thinking about giving this a try!
The build is not weapon dependent! Feel free to use any bow type, whatever you find with the best dps basically. The Archery passive will just benefit you slightly differently depending on weapon type.
Thanks for the reply, I've started running around blowing stuff to pieces and it's quite fun ;D
I'm wondering though, I rolled phys dmg on those bracers you recommended, but noticed that cluster arrow does fire dmg first and then phys dmg with the rockets. And since HA also does fire dmg I'm just curious if phys really is that much better than fire dmg? It seems a bit weird to me, but then again I've no idea about DHs, so it could just be me :x
The key to using +physical over fire is the Ballistics passive. It makes rockets fly out during normal firing (of any skill). It also makes the rockets during vengeance crit really strong. And I'm pretty sure Cluster Arrow - Shooting Star is 100% physical damage.
Ultimately, I think fire is going to be the end-game goal of DH, however, until you get Magefist + Cindercoat, I feel like physical is easier to gear for (you can roll ~30% elemental damage of your choice without having to wait for any particular legendaries).
As far as gear - it's hard to tell because of the armoury not showing re-forges. But yes, elemental damage is generally worth sacrificing crit chance/damage for. However, ideally, you'd sacrifice something else.
Helms - you kinda want main stat, crit, elemental damage, and hatred spender damage (cluster arrow, in this case).
Ammy - Elemental damage, mainstat, then crit chance/damage
Bracers - Elemental, mainstat, crit chance, then AllRes/Vit (whichever you need more), or possibly LoH if you have enough eHP on your other pieces
The other keys to note - you can get +Entangling Shot damage on your belt/pants, and +Cluster Arrow on your Quiver/Boots.
Apologies if you already have this stuff and it's just not shown on the armoury page.
As for healing - when I'm solo, I tend to run Smoke Screen - Healing Vapors. I can handle up to T3 by myself, though I still die to occasional horrible affixes (namely, waller in small levels coupled with arcane/frozen, or just stupid Thunderstorm). In parties, I can generally do T3 without SS, or T4 with SS.
A big difference for me was maxing all res first (not there yet, but working on it) with paragon, and LoH from paragon. Those two together seemed to make a pretty big difference in my ability to do damage and stay alive.
Finally - if you're using Entangling Shot as your generator, consider adding Cull the Weak instead of Ambush. Or, you should swap to Grenades as your generator, as they'll benefit from your fire and passives.
The two builds I've seen that work are Badglad's fire spec, and the Rocketman physical.
I disagree with Badglad, though, about Entangling Shot. If you're solo, using ES with Cull the Weak passive nets you basically a perma 20% increase in damage. It's pretty great.
I backed into a very similar build when I got a legendary amulet that dropped with +physical damage. I was trying to find how to maximize physical damage dealt, and while testing, I noticed the cluster arrow rockets critting for 8+ million. I now have cluster arrow damage on helm and boots, and physical damage on bracers and amulet, and regularly crit for 10+ million. In groups, I can pretty much play up to T4 pretty easily and effectively.
The difference is, I run Entangling (and have bonuses to it on legs/belt) with Cull the Weak for bonus damage.
My question to you, and to any other DHs, how has it been solo'ing on higher torments? I find that with about ~10k healing (90% of which comes from ~124 paragon levels worth of points into LoH), I'm starting to feel like I can drop Smoke Screen - healing vapors, but I still worry that I don't have enough healing / defense to deal with higher torment elites yet. Trash mobs I laugh at, but then an elite pack spawns and I die a bunch.
0
I got lucky during my leveling process and I got an Obsidian ring of the zodiac. This can function as a kinda-sorta-ghetto Nat's 2P, so with it and zero other (effective) legendaries, but fairly decently rolled level 70 rares, I was into Torment 1 in pub games. My AoE was really solid at this point all ready for this difficulty, but elite packs were hard to take out on my own.
Nat's 2P + Obsidian ring (my first nat's piece were the gloves, the second was also gloves so I swapped it to the xbow) got me into T2 pretty comfortably.
Tae'guk's, Bane of the Trapped were both big power spikes. I haven't gotten zei's yet, but that should be another power spike that might let me comfortably solo T8 or so.
Nat's 4P didn't really do much, other than let me solo a little easier.
Crashing Rain let me bump all the way up to about T4 or so, as my elite kill speed went up dramatically.
Nat's 6P was pretty much instantly T6. I had the damage for T7 at that point, but not quite the survivability.
Wrap's of Clarity coupled with Nat's 6P allowed me to comfortably solo T7, and in groups, I can manage T8. I'm not high enough paragon to test out T9 yet though.
T7 was just a tad bit slow until I got a calamity, and then it picked up to be effectively one shotting everything but elites.
I'm still missing Focus (have restraint) and I don't have a good hellfire amulet yet.
0
10 armor = 1 all resist. 100 all resist = 1,000 armor. All resist is *always* better than armor in a primary slot, in the amounts they can roll. All res minimum roll is ~80, I think? Which is equivalent to 800 armor, which your gear can't roll as a primary. Wasted slot.
Shoulders should look like this: <Main Stat>, Vit, All Res, [Life %, Cooldown Reduction or Resource Cost Reduction]. For every class, every build. For hardcore, I'd suggest Life %.
0
MOTE Helm - You want Str, Crit, Socket, All Res
Lut Socks - Roll Armor to All Res. As a barb, you're already going to have crazy armor, and additionally, armor is less valuable as a primary than All Res. Also, try to get one with +Health Globe.
Swap out the Vit gem for a Diamond - For T4 or lower, I run all Rubies. For T5, I run 3 rubies, 2 diamonds. For T6, I run all diamonds. If you're cash strapped, run the higher amount of diamonds.
Drop the 3 piece IK for Mage Fist, String of Ears (or Pride of Cassius), Burning Axe of Sankis, and Sunkeeper/Devastator. The Burning Axe will give you a fairly frequent Ignore Pain proc, the Magefist will give you +20% fire damage for free, String of Ears can have up to 30% melee reduction, and Sunkeeper/Devastor will give you more damage to blow things up faster.
0
0
Great read on the build. I was looking for a non-pet oriented build to start off my WD, and this looks like a great idea. However, I did read a bit of misinformation. You said that at high levels of gear, 20% cold damage is less valuable than 10% crit. For your current gear profile, here are some relevant numbers. Keep in mind they will be *slightly* different because I don't know your paragon point expenditures:
- 20% Cold Damage = 148,596 DPS increase
- 10% Crit (only available on glove/amulet) = 129,548 DPS increase
- 6% Crit (available on Helm, Rings) = 77,729 DPS increase
- 50% Crit Damage (available on gloves, rings) = 73,446 DPS increase
- 100% Crit Damage (available on amulet) = 146,892 DPS increase
If you are paragon 400 and max both crit chance and crit damage, these relationships don't actually change at all - 20% cold jumps to ~173k. 10% crit jumps to ~150k. 50% crit damage jumps to 85k, and 100% crit damage jumps to 171k.Cold damage is a multiplicative stat and is *always* worth more than any other relevant DPS stat. Since you can effectively ignore attack speed (even more so than everyone else in the game can), you have much easier gear decisions to make. Cold > Crit Chance >= Crit Damage. Always.
And once you have a base level of damage to handle a given torment level's trash mobs, you can then add that Elite Damage % > Cold % > Crit Chance >=Crit Damage (1:10 ratio).
In case you were curious, your profile DPS shows up as 742k, your elemental DPS is 891.5k, and your elemental elite DPS is 1.28m. 44% (29 soj 15 aughild) elite damage is a *massive* increase in DPS.
0
For BiS Fire builds, this is what you're working with:
Helm - Pride's Fall is BiS for groups. Otherwise, Andariel's. The only way to drop PF is with Reaper's Wrap, which has issues below.
Gloves + Chest - Magefist + Cindercoat. It's pretty hard to top 40% fire damage and 30% resource reduction, which realistically only comes at the cost of either 1 Vit roll or 1 All Res roll. I don't think you can make a case for any other chest/glove combo in the game right now.
Shoulder + Bracer - Aughild's. This plus Ring of Royal Grandeur is pretty much impossible to top. 7% reduced damage from everything, 15% additionally reduced from elite's, and 15% increased damage to elites. Nothing else comes close. This is why I'm not using Reaper's Wraps on high torments. Though, for lower torments where you're already one shotting elites, RW can let you drop Pride's Fall and vault through T1 rifts faster.
Ammy - Pick whichever immunity necklace will drop for you with the right stats. I still haven't found one.
Boots + Pants - Captain Crimson is a good choice, or Nat's boots + ring. These slots I think have the most freedom to play around with, depending on the drops you get.
Rings - Ring of Royal Grandeur is kind of mandatory. SOJ or Nat's ring for other slot.
Weapon - Kridershot or Calamity, or Nat's (with the ring). Danetta's might also be good.
Quiver or DW - drop dependent.
Belt - Witching Hour, or the belt that drops the confuse/blind bubble (I have it, it's ridiculously strong on T5-6).
0
For trash mobs, losing 15-18% damage from the yellow ring is mostly made up by the +18% lightning damage. This is because the character sheet is completely lying to you. The formula is this (Skill Damage) * (+% Skill Damage) * (+% Elemental Damage) * (+% Elite Damage). Within skill damage, you already take into account crit chance, crit damage, and attack speed, so the 18% elemental damage gets applied after that. Massive, massive upgrade while wind sheering. Trash kill speed should stay relatively the same. Since you have 13% + ww and +18% lightning damage (46% total), you multiply them together with the rest. Your total modifier in the first example is 1.13*1.32 = 1.49. In the second, it's 1.64. We can use the character sheet dps as a ROUGH estimate for baseline unbuffed DPS, but know that it's going to be off by a bit.
Total DPS 1: 889,728 * 1.49 = 1,325,694
Total DPS 2: 749,762 * 1.64 = 1,229,609
So, a ~7% DPS loss on trash. It should actually be a little closer, but depends on the %Weapon Damage that Wind Sheer has (the higher %wd on your skill, the more these modifiers effect it, as they stack multiplicatively with the weapon damage %). Roughly negligible. Also keep in mind that with buffs, your gap should also close a bit more.
For elites, this should be much much better. Case 1 stays the same at 1.3mil dps, while case 2 gets a 2.09 multiplier instead of 1.64. That puts you at 1,567,002 DPS, or an increase of about ~14%. Again, this will be exaggerated with buffs, as everything kind of feeds on each other.
So, depending what you're doing, the SoJ should be an upgrade, as your trash kill speed is going to be fairly similar, but your elite kill speed will be much improved.
If anyone knows the actual DPS calculation formula, I can make a little spreadsheet to plug things in, but I don't know it other than how ele and skill damage bonuses get entered.
0
Ultimately, I think fire is going to be the end-game goal of DH, however, until you get Magefist + Cindercoat, I feel like physical is easier to gear for (you can roll ~30% elemental damage of your choice without having to wait for any particular legendaries).
0
Helms - you kinda want main stat, crit, elemental damage, and hatred spender damage (cluster arrow, in this case).
Ammy - Elemental damage, mainstat, then crit chance/damage
Bracers - Elemental, mainstat, crit chance, then AllRes/Vit (whichever you need more), or possibly LoH if you have enough eHP on your other pieces
The other keys to note - you can get +Entangling Shot damage on your belt/pants, and +Cluster Arrow on your Quiver/Boots.
Apologies if you already have this stuff and it's just not shown on the armoury page.
As for healing - when I'm solo, I tend to run Smoke Screen - Healing Vapors. I can handle up to T3 by myself, though I still die to occasional horrible affixes (namely, waller in small levels coupled with arcane/frozen, or just stupid Thunderstorm). In parties, I can generally do T3 without SS, or T4 with SS.
A big difference for me was maxing all res first (not there yet, but working on it) with paragon, and LoH from paragon. Those two together seemed to make a pretty big difference in my ability to do damage and stay alive.
Finally - if you're using Entangling Shot as your generator, consider adding Cull the Weak instead of Ambush. Or, you should swap to Grenades as your generator, as they'll benefit from your fire and passives.
0
I disagree with Badglad, though, about Entangling Shot. If you're solo, using ES with Cull the Weak passive nets you basically a perma 20% increase in damage. It's pretty great.
0
The difference is, I run Entangling (and have bonuses to it on legs/belt) with Cull the Weak for bonus damage.
My question to you, and to any other DHs, how has it been solo'ing on higher torments? I find that with about ~10k healing (90% of which comes from ~124 paragon levels worth of points into LoH), I'm starting to feel like I can drop Smoke Screen - healing vapors, but I still worry that I don't have enough healing / defense to deal with higher torment elites yet. Trash mobs I laugh at, but then an elite pack spawns and I die a bunch.