DiabloFans

Well, this thread here

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/137158-idea-custom-rifts

had specified very well how this kind of content could be implemented in a good way. This thread is structured and provides every needed information, aswell as considering eventual downsides and providing possible solutions to them.

OP suggested just a mini PTR where people could go wild with designs and Blizzard then chooses the best ones to put on live - sorry, two completely different point of view.

No speicfications about mechanics, loot, rewards, etc.

Since also PrvtPile posted, once again i want to say him kudos for his concept.

"We need X in D3" is not a good point at all - every once in a while the "we need runewords" thread pops out too, but only once i have seen a insightful post which basically said "rw in D2 were cool because we had lots of affixes to play with, in D3 what decent rw could add in current streamlined stat system?"

With the informations provided, i don't see OP idea as a good one. If he works more over it and provides a more structured concept, more dicsussion can be done.

Map editor = everyone will make dream farming map and run only that one.

Item editor = everyone has the dream items with insane affixes.

Yeah, i can see that working. Hell, on PS which is the "offline Diablo 3 mode", it's plagued by hackers and cheaters just because they have the option to do so, while on PC due to always online thing we're "limited" to bots and UI enhancements.

Imho, waste of resources. Yes, if D3 on PC had an offline mode where you could do whatever you wanted without repercussions, it would have been fine (ah, how i miss the D2 excel days) but given how the game works, it's a no-no.

I could just add that we have also numbing traps which includes slowed/chilled monsters for a 25% less damage debuff which is hands down one of the best defensive skills we can get.

I suppose that if i'm going to play UE this season as Shadows set looks very clunky to use atm, i'm sticking with F/R+Hellfire combo as these 3 passives together are so strong.

Quote from banishedbr

So nature of competition is to copy the number 1 ? If the number 1 keeps changing how do i do ? Changing the copy target forever ?

For me the problem is old, the same ppl said previous lauch. This mechanic is not a rpg one. It has action, but no choices. And i saw a player complaining on having only 6 skill to use. lol This game is random random random everything, and lies patch after patch. ^^

Well, isn't this happening already right now?
The structure is always that - some streamers/theorycrafters go on PTR, test stuff out and day of patch release there are multiple build guides.
Then time passes during season, strategies refines and everyone is copying what top ladder players are doing.
There's a reason why nearly everyone was playing monk in season4 (even if Wizards are extremely competitive but no one seems to have noticed it).
The problem with choices is that if they're not balanced and you want to compete for #1, you don't actually have choices. It's like on vanilla/TBC WoW, with players complaining that they couldn't use thei build and do max dps - sorry to burst yout bubble, but math doesn't lie and there is only one spot for the best build.
The fact is that while the best build can be only one, they can still make that all the others are not that far behind so the difference in high GR can be nullified.

Quote from wiwh

Fundamentally, this is no different than adding XX% damage as far as GR leaderboard goes. It is just cosmetics.
If the best of your three options is the best option overall, then it will become mandatory to any competitive gear.
End-level build diversity can only be achieved via objective diversity and / or tactical diversity. I.e. if different game styles (glass canon vs tank, cc, etc..) can achieve the same clearing speed.

It's not just cosmetics as the way the damage is dealt changes the gameplay - but yes, they're all comparable to XX% damage increases, as they need to be balanced and thus all being an option.
However i agree with you - the fcat that endgame consists in only pushing that higher GR means players have to pdigeonhole in very specific builds/setup and even adding thousands of items the problem isn't removed.
My point was about itemization and not endgame though - more items that change the same skills leaves players with a degree of choices which looks to me better than having +X% skill damage items which are prettly clear you HAVE to equip no matter what.

I try to see both points here - i find myself in the middle while Quind does in fact make some points i agree with, and some others i don't.

As some others in here, i see that every patch there is more choice and not less in gearing; unfortunately the more choice is tied to new set and "pre-existing" or "premade" builds to which we need to adhere to have any chance at endgame. I can understand the feeling of players being pidgeonholed into something the Blizzard devs have chosen for us and we can just accept it or don't play it.

Unfortunately for us players, there are two things which are facts and cannot be changed:

- "premade" builds makes both set creation and balancing much easier for devs. Having to balance an big number of legendary combinations is much harder thand looking ate some limited number.

- there is place only for 1 best build and one #1 spot on ladders; choice has no room here, either you run with the best stuff or you're behind - that's the nature of competition.

Given this, however i agree that putting all these "XY% more damage on Z skill" is a very bad approach. We have an already limited degree of choice in D3, and this makes only choices narrower because some items become immediately mandatory to equip. Given also how limited we are in slots and how some items are clearly superior than others, we're really making the choice near to non-existent.

The point is that legendary items should have legendary affixes; not "sostrong they cut down competition" affixes.

Let me do an example:

- xbow #1: your cluster arrow generates double the amounts of grenades/rockets.

- xbow #2: your cluster arrow main hit now has a 15 yard radius

- xbow #3: your cluster arrow now leaves a crater at the point of impact, slowing targets inside the area and dealing X00% weapon damage over 4 seconds (damage type changes based on rune)

Balancing issues apart (just thrown random numbers and stuff there), here's what i expect legendary items to do - to add fancy stuff to my skills and not just change dmaage/coist coeafficients so they become suddendly the best efficient skills i can have on my bar.

The three xbows above all increase the CA damage, but in different ways; the #3 could have laess damage to balance the addition of CC. However i can choose either 2 of the three to have a different combo - all will be damage increases, and if balacing is done well, the damage will be the least stat to look at.

So basically the solution to the issue is to remove those passiove additive bonuses, and make more legedaries that overlap each other, so for these limited number of slots we can have a real choice.

I don't see Blizzard completely destroy and redo current itemization system; but having sets to choose from and for each set a number of items to mix up would be definitely better than now.

I am still thinking about why Vengeance related bonuses have been set in both M6 and UE sets.

Given how the mechanics worked, i am fine with Vengeance in M6 builds (rucksack/manticore setup is basically a must, leaving cube spaces for Dawn/Gunes).

However with UE and how fast the Ballista shield stacks, i would rather have the damage bonus baked directly in the set for balancing it and leave the space for Ballista in the cube (again given that Yang/DML is the bust have equipped combo).

More variety and usage of different items across the board. Vengeance as a must have ability for every spec kinda sucks.

I like Alka's propositions and especially the first one - making a synergy between Impale and FoK usage.

As for the Ballista. as i said i didn't even test it. It's great to see that i was wrong and it's actually a good defensive choice, but perma Vengeance (given the fact it now makes you also immune to CC like similar effects) with Dark Heart and a damage increase seems to mee a too much good deal for high GR pushing.

@wudjo: glad to see you back. I'm waiting for new theorycrafting posts

Latest hotfixes:

• Lord Greenstone's Fan
• Reduced damage bonus from 250-300% to 80-100%. (12/1)

• Fortress Ballista
• Shield reduced from 4-5% to 2-3% (12/1)

I'm sad to see the FoK dagger nerfed, it was an awseome weapon but i assume that having it on builds different from Shadows set wasn't intended. I hope there will be a Shadows set rework that includes FoK so the dagger becomes again a good complementary item.

As for the ballista, iì'm not playing PTR recently but i have yet to see anyone using it.

Quote from TastySouP1157»

-N6 I don't even like to talk about because IMO it is the absolute worst set they have released. The playstyle N6 promotes is dumb, the fact that N6/RoV doesn't even deal the damage its a legendary belt and sword that deals the damage is even worse then the playstyle, and strafe looks realllllllly stupid imo. The whole set, from looks too gameplay is just ugly and twisted if you ask me.

Now this is gonna be an unpopular opinion, but I REALLLY hate how almost mandatory Vengeance has become.

Just highlighted these two points.
I personally like Natalya set, but tbh i don't like much RoV, while i love Strafe. S1 i played with a melee Strafe/FoK/Shuriken cloud build which was a lot of fun to play for me - in my mind (before current Natalya set) this was the idea i had about what the Shadows set would have needed to be; the knives rune of FoK wouldn't have required a bow weapon, and the rest is known, with perma shadow power giving us the needed survivability to stay in melee.
I agree however that spin-to-win builds haven't a lot of dpeth in gameplay generally.
Agree fully with vengeance. As said above, i'm fine for it to be a core ability for a single set and Marauder imho is perfectly fit for it, both thematically and given the free cube/skill slots - i don't like the fact it's become a really powerful survivability and damage tool so good that every build has it now, while before it could be easily skipped.

As i said some posts above - Shadows set is receiveng the same feedback as the Sunwuko set for monks. On paper, numbers seem fine and we all knwo that we could run with it up to a certain point, and i expect that we could complete the s5 journey even with shadow set in current state (i don't expect last objectives go higher than GR70 and such).

The problem is that the set bonuses promote clunky playstyles that suffer from incredible inefficiency and in some cases contradictory mechanics. To fix this, they need to rework the bonuses and not just tune numbers as they've done with latest hotfixes.

I'll be playing marauder since i love cluster arrow or UE since it's a solid build anyway - this until Shadows set won't be fixed. And i expect at least that.

EDIT: i think i'll go for a non-standard fire/grenades build for Marauder, since now we have all generators streamlined. Maybe not the best effective but who cares, i'm not going for ladders

EDIT2: here's a profile, final d3planner jhas been "updated" http://ptr.d3planner.com/180821342

Mah, i don't like this at all. I didn't like Aquila anyway, but now the bottleneck is too narrow.

I was happy to have perma Vengeance for marauder, but not for the other sets.

Double posting to avoid mixing considerations with the changes list.

Sets got buffed both in damage and survivability, nothing much to say here.

About generators: FINALLY. However people would still use the rune that gives more hatred back since generators damage has always been negligible. Generators should all give back the same amount of hatred, end.

About Shadows set: because you don't see anything in the list (apart the 4S/4M nerf making the build useless) it doesn't mean it's not considered. The issues the set has are not about damage or number tuning but about the playstyle and the way the involved skills work (Chakram, FoK, Impale) making it clunky to use while it's an awesome concept and many of us want to play it.

I expect more for the Shadows set the next updates.

Adding the missing stuff:

Natalya’s Set

• Increased damage reduction from 50% to 60%. (11/24)
• Increased duration from 6 to 10 seconds. (11/24)

• Shadow’s Mantle
• Fixed a bug where the bonus was applying to non-Demon Hunters. (11/24)


• Fortress Ballista
• Fixed a bug where this item wasn’t dropping. (11/24)


• Dawn
• Increased cooldown reduction from 45-60% to 50-65%. (11/24)


• Zoey’s Secret
• Increased damage reduction per Companion from 6-7% to 8-9%. (11/24)


• Preparation
• Invigoration
• Increased max Discipline bonus from 15 to 20. (11/24)




• Vengeance
• Increased duration from 15 to 20 seconds. (11/24)




• Plus all generators now generate the same amount of hatred.

Quote from Hldemi»

OF course that now we will be able to clear higher greater rifts so overall we will lvl up faster then in season 4 but buffing monster exp by 50% is still not equal to having all that exp gear bonuses.

Never implied that. On the contrary, i said it's a direct nerf to group XP gaining. With the caghnges now the difference betwee party and solo should be less, with group still being the most efficient way to play.
All in all, i see this as a good change. I can understand people farming much mroe than me being not happy about this change.