Considering that it's his first level 70 character, I do not.
Why don't you take the time to show him in the right direction instead?
This is really nice. I'll definitely keep this post open at the start of the season!
I'd be interested to join the team. Known as Juno, 20 years old from the Netherlands.
I'm always lurking here and on Reddit so I'm up to date on the latest news and capable of participating in discussions involving the game. Lack of activity in discussions lately is because been busy with exams the past months, which are over as of tomorrow.
Still play the game whenever I have time to, member in the EU Diablofans clan. Just like many, I'm more active at the start of the new seasons.
I do not have any forum moderating experience, so please teach me your ways so that I can become as awesome as you.
Quote from Hexipox
Quote from ScaledWurm
Thanks for your useless post. See when you are an adult you have to go to work. I just finished Act 2 then had to come to work so I figured while at work I would ask to see what other people's opinions were so I could learn from their trials and tribulations. I am sure that since you are so good at doing everything on your own that you have never used google for a search when you could just as easily venture out into the world on your own and see what you can find.
Doing a search on google is finding our on your own. Asking someone is skipping the search on google - or for the matter; here, there are plenty posts here that talk on this issue.
Your post is as dumb and useless as my advice is good.
See when you grow up, since you wanted to make this personal, you go to work and you hate wasting your time on posts like this
I tried to encourage you to test out for ya self, its a much better learning curve to try, fail figure out the possible solution. if none occur, come here and ask, someone might have a solution to help you. I would gladly post a long post on the subject if you had just tried first.
UPDATE2: Apparently, paragon starts scaling exponentially again - after level 2250. Updated chart at the bottom of this post. However, paragon 750 to 2250 are still unchanged and relatively easy to get, and provide a ridiculous benefit; and even beyond it's not super crazy scaling, though much more difficult than on PTR and pre-2.3. Despite this small bandaid fix to insanely high paragon levels, all the issues (and potential solutions) of this thread are still valid.
UPDATE: Some of the issues in this thread have been addressed as paragon continues to scale linearly after 2000. Nevertheless, paragon is still an issue and, depending on how long season 4 will last, will be an even larger issue as it was in season 3 due to the fact that XP gain will even be more inflated. The core issues are still relevant, and the solutions proposed should still work. Note that CAPPING paragon is not really a solution - better would be to either 1) let it continue to scale exponentially after 750 (best solution), or 2) remove XP gear (it's the same as MF gear in D3V), or 3) lower the benefits paragon gives after level 800 (probably the best overall and feasible solution as it also works retroactively on non-season).
Yay, catchy title! Sorry for the buzzfeed style, but at least I got your attention now. I previously made a thread about my concerns regarding paragon. There was also a nice thread on Reddit by Xabster highlighting an issue with paragon scaling. However, since yesterday we have new data as Kalmah raced to paragon 10000 on PTR using the GR glitch (live on Empyrian's stream). As it turned out, that changed the game once again - because the paragon XP charts we used so far (including Xabster in his post) were off. After reaching paragon 2000, every level requires exactly the same amount of XP - approx. 170 billion. Yep - paragon level 2000 to 2001 takes exactly as much XP as 9999 to 10000.
Edit: If you don't like to read text but prefer videos, watch Empyrian's great summary of the paragon issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llPluMsxE7M
Now, in all those paragon threads many people said "I don't care". If that's the case, and you don't like numbers or charts then just stop reading and don't bother replying, there will be nothing in here for you. Otherwise, hear me out and read on.
This is a chart displaying the race from paragon 1 to 750, how much XP you need for the next level. This is what most people are probably experiencing, or have experienced - in all Diablo games ever: as you acquire more power, acquiring *even more* power becomes more difficult. In one word, power creep is exponential. As it has always been, and as it should be. Now... after 750 this is not the case anymore. This is what it looks like once you reach paragon 750:
The amount of XP needed to reach the next level increases only linearly - by exactly 122.4 million per level. On this level you acquire several billions of XP per hour though - in 2.3 there might be scenarios of 200-250 billion per hour in a fast group - which makes this a minuscule increase. It's not like in D2 where the next level *feels* like it's going to take longer; instead of an hour it will only take an hour and a few seconds more (not even a few minutes), so not noticeable at all. That's the reason why paragon leveling at this point has become so rewarding: after 750 you make steady progress without a noticeable slowing down effect. However, after paragon 800 every level gives you 5 more main stat - which is a noticeable increase in power and something that you can't get easily through gear upgrades on that level. That's why people are hunting paragon like crazy. And the first few have reached 2000 already. That number will increase in season 4 when paragon farming becomes even easier (shared XP, power creep will let us farm 10-15 level higher). In non-season, where half the playerbase (including me) has found its home, it's going to be even worse: from the start we will have several 2000+ paragon players, and many many more just after a few weeks. Now, why is paragon 2000 such an interesting number? The answer can be found in this chart:
After level 2000, the paragon needed does not increase - as aforementioned. It will always be 170 billion. Now, why is this an issue? Simply because you will *increase your power* - more paragon, maybe occasionally even more gear, more DPS/toughness which allows for even more XP, higher GR clears which result in higher gem ranks. Paragon leveling will be faster and faster - but the paragon XP required will be the same. When you're paragon 2000, you need probably a bit more than one hour to get one level. When you're paragon 3000, you will have 5000 more main stat (!!!), which means 5000% more damage - granted, it's additive damage; but it will still make you much much stronger and let you farm faster. What that means: the higher paragon you are, the more powerful you are, and the more paragon you will acquire. "Paragon per time" (or "power per time) will not be an exponential curve anymore in Diablo - as it has always been - but it will be a bell curve. Once you're at paragon 2000, you are definitely on the lowering right slope of the bell curve, and you will acquire more power as you go on, and you will not slow down but actually get faster in acquiring this increased power.
I hope some more people start to understand now why there's something wrong with paragon. There are several issues - and relatively "easy fixes", though they might hurt. Note, I am not crying for nerfs or anything - I am almost 1000 myself, so I can see the "benefits of the bell curve" for me as well soon. But I just don't think that running low-level Greater Rifts non-stop every day is the best that this game can offer. Here are my main issues with the paragon system and how I believe it can be fixed:
Problem 1: Paragon leveling becomes slower and slower until 750, stays at approximately a steady pace from 750 to 2000, and becomes even faster after that.
Solution: It should continue to be exponential after 750, and especially after 2000. It cannot be that the power creep is even exacerbated by a bell curve - that simply has to be a design flaw. It doesn't necessarily need to be as crazy exponential as before 750, but as players gain more power it should be harder to get *even more* power.
Problem 2: Paragon levels after 800 are more rewarding than any before.
Solution: After paragon 800, each additional level should only grant 2 main stat (instead of 5). After paragon 1000 - up until 10000 - each additional level should only grant 1 main stat. That would still mean a paragon 1000 player has 400 more main stat than a paragon 800 player, and a paragon 2000 player has 800 more. On this level, those differences matter - especially in season 4/era 4, where top-level players will all have very similar gear thanks to the cube. But at least with a bit of skillful play and luck in GR RNG you can make up for it, and aren't straight out of the competition.
Alternative solution by Skelos_bg: "Cap the bonus from stats at P800. Turn the points after P800 in a currency: With this currency the dedicated players who reach P1k, P1.5k, P2k etc can buy special cosmetic rewards, more stash space etc..."
I love this idea - I would kill for stash space. The option to have one more stash tab every 200 or 500 or 1000 levels or whatever would just sound amazing and, although I dislike paragon leveling, would have me leveling like a mad man. Plus, it wouldn't break the game for anyone else if I'm paragon 5000, but at least I don't have to re-farm all gear when I want to experiment new builds. Thanks!
Problem 3: Greater Rifts, especially low GRs for speed runs in 2-4 minutes, are too rewarding and pigeonhole competitive players into a very specific, tedious, time-consuming, and (in many people's opinion) boring gameplay.
Solution: Make XP gained similar in all aspects of the game. This low GR speed madness only started after the XP was changed to be multiplicative in GRs. I guess this was done because T6 was more effective for XP than GRs (I don't really remember, but I think that was the case), and it gave people a gearing choice (Hellfire Ring or Stone of Jordan? Diamond or Ruby?). However, this means that you want to run GRs only (as it currently yields about 10 times more XP!), and you want to run approximately 20-25 levels below your "real power level", as you can afford to give up DPS for XP gear on at least some characters in the group and run this at an insane speed which yields the best XP/hour. Basically, if this game's rules would apply to football, it would mean that Champions League players would have to practice 10-16 hours a day against mediocre low-league teams to become the best players. I'm not sure that would be fun for either side. The concrete solutions here would be to reverse the multiplicative bonus XP change - or even better, get rid of XP bonuses on gear (just like you did the absolutely right decision by basically removing magic find).
Thanks for reading everyone. If you want to see the complete 1-10000 XP plot, here it is:
(Last change in 2.3, accurate as of October 2016 (2.4.2/S8), thanks to <ZE> Vajet for data and Diablo3Ladder.com for publishing them)
Well, this popped up a while ago on Reddit, and I've waited for a long time but no one cared to re-do the chart. And since there are now approximately 23 threads per minute asking those questions, I thought I'd just give it a go. So here's the somewhat updated difficulty overview:
Disclaimer: Many of the values are guesstimates - solid guesstimates based on lots of work, but not exact science. In GR key drop rate and some T11-T13 data, like DP drop rate, could always benefit from more data.
I wanted to share my opinion on this too:
I can't stand quin69, mainly because he has an annoying style in his videos. (I am 95% sure though that he would be nice in a normal style conversation)
But I respect him for his work. I regularly look up his guides and videos, in spite of my opinion of his talking mouth.
And same goes for your work. I look it up, am stunned that somebody takes the time and effort to put it up.
But: (and this critique goes mainly to you)
-your guides are hollow. They are a list of stuff you need and done. no effeort (shown) in explaining or maybe alternatives.
-your image here is disturbing. There is no post without caps lock, colors, bold font etc. Comic sans is missing.
-this post. pure tantrum. Somebody else gets his feature and you are pissed. this is not mature. this is childish and reason alone to judge you.
but at the end, still, your work is appreciated. just don't call out other people.
It doesn't make sense to include Thud in this letter because as you said, almost if not all of the people who signed the letter actually use Thud (Including me, back when i used to play D3). It's too good to give up on while still not breaking the game imo. It's very different from botting, it's more like a reaction to Blizzard's horrible hard-coded UI implementation in D3. The lack of modding support is just really bad and the fact that people have Thud to compensate that is actually a good thing in my view. If Blizzard just works on a better minimap to include things like champion / elite packs that you have already encountered, then they could also make it so you can't read the minimap portion of the game off of the client's memory somehow... I think if Thud didn't have the maphack then it would have been more legit and awesome but the fact that it has some sort of a maphack makes its validity go down by quite a bit.
So let's make the letter about "cheating" so that whatever slim chance there was of Blizzard actually addressing it will be completely gone or replaced with stupid examples of actions taken by blizz against exploits and other irrelevant stuff. I think people need to get over their ego and i'm not talking about streamers only...
Sarcasm wins all debates right? It doesn't have to be aimed at "cheating" but the problems lay within the parameters of 'third-party software'. So the letter these 26 pillars of the community wrote could be written in that direction. It's not, because most of the signatories are third-party software users. Blizzard could even make an arguement that a website that times CoE is considered to be TPS. Not likely, but the arguement could be made, which would basically wipe the leaderboards completely.
I have to say though, while they haven't addressed the botting issue as quickly as we'd all hope, fixing and punishing those involved in the Hellfire exploit shows they care. Acting as though it's irrelevant is childish. It was within thier power to do. Which logically speaks to the fact that they don't have a final solution to the bot problem. Would you prefer random bans to people who play more than 8 hours a day?
I was thinking about if i should comment on the topic or not...So here are my 2cents...
Botting is part of D3 since the release. It just changed for what people botting. In vanilla Gold-Bots where super popular since you could make money off of it. Even before the RMAH was "released" peopled botted for Gold and sold it on the "black market". With the release of RMAH people used Scripts/Bots for Buying/Selling stuff on AH/RMAH -> making Money out of D3. At the release of RoS botting went down by a huge percentage because there was no advantage in botting anymore. This changed again with the release of Seasons and Ladder. Botting got quite powerfull again. Farming Bounties for Riftkeys(in order to do an absurd amount of Trials) or these days farming Tx Rifts for Keys and Bounties(for Mats to reroll Stuff in the Cube). Not to forget kinda unlimted supply for doing Ubers and getting HF Amulets.
So now why is botting so "rewarding"?
You can spend all your "Online Time" doing Speed Greaters in order to max. your Exp(Paragon Grind). You can Cube your Items almost unlimted since you got all the Mats you need by botting. Also being able to craft an absurd amount of HF Amulets. These things combined leads to an insane Powercreep.
Now people like to mix in THUD into the "botting issue". Yes HUD provides an advantage. Being able to spot pylons ahead, having Elite Affixes availible before you engage them and the map reveale are a "big bonus". BUT the powercreep compared to "botting" is far less then people expect. HUD doesnt turn "average players" into Rank1 capable ones. You are able to make better dicisions when using HUD, which was way more impactfull in the past. In the current Group Meta(havin a Healmonk who counters all the Elite Affixes anyway) HUD isnt that big of a deal anymore.
Im not saying using HUD doesnt violate the ToS. Im not saying HUD shouldnt be adressed as well in one way or another. BUT Blizzard needs to adress botting soon.
Not all people are against this open letters. I feel a bit sadened myself to see the amount of people complaining they can't sign it. As Bagstone explained twice already, petitions are banned. And a letter with 1000+ signatures is a petition, Blizzard is not stupid.
I support this initiative because this is more likely to be heard from blizzard than the thousands of random posts complaining of bots.
Like it or not, but streamers are more likely to be heard by blizzard than me or some casual players. Do you know my name? My best GR solo? That's fine, but that also mean that my remarks are not as read as wudijo's for instance. Wudijo IS one of the reference for DH, quin for monk. Their importance are not defined by themselves. They ARE.
I'm not bowing every morning in front of their profile however.
For me, and a lot of my friends, this is a very welcome initiative, and I really hope it can change things for the better. Even if blizzard do nothing, I think they can't behave like the diablo community doesn't care. Keep in minde that, through the community, XP formula above P2500+ was changed. So we can have an effect.
To make a long story short, blizzard can't read all post from all the community, so they read only the ones by notorious people from the community. There's no point in arguing about that.
So thank you, all of you behind that open letter. Because you're under a lot of pressure right now, and the average post here is not representative of how this action is felt by the community.
I'm saddened by many of the borderline comments on the last few pages. We're trying to limit moderation to a minimum to also let the voices from the other side be heard, but let me stress once again - if you *disagree* with us, then please refrain from making accusations. It makes your entire statement useless and nobody of us is going to respond to this as it's close to the subject of trolling (and trolls shall not be fed). If you want a critical discussion at least be fair and stop calling people names or accuse them of things for which you have no proof, and also don't generalize across all the signatories as we purposely tried to get a wide variety of people.
Just one thing, since it seems to be the common theme one the last page: "why didn't you make a petition instead of speaking for the *entire* community?" - first of all, we do not speak for the *entire* community, and this letter is useless if you don't share/upvote it. Thankfully, the overwhelming (positive) support we're getting on it outweighs the attacks; it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. And I'm not making this up - some people posted the same text here that they also posted on botting websites. Secondly, a petition is against Blizzard's rules and would immediately be deleted and dismissed. We agree that a petition would be better than just having a few selected people phrase a letter, but it would simply be impossible for Blizzard to react to it as it would be against their own rules.
Sorry, forgot to post: added the tag to the title, not sure if it's the correct one but better than the clickbait that got me as well
It had already been clarified but I guess it bears mentioning again - flaming and breaking the forum rules will not be tolerated.
Everyone is free to say absolutely anything you want about the matter at hand: agree or disagree with the letter contents, that streamers are not representative of the community, whether the competitive aspect of Diablo 3 is legit or not - but the rules are for everyone and we won't allow anyone to break them. No matter how right or wrong one may be, without the rules we simply cannot have a civil discussion.
Please, keep that in mind going forward.
I'm just going to quickly address two points that come up quite a lot:
1) "What about TurboHUD".
TurboHUD and bots are two different issues, and they're treated differently by Blizzard. This includes about how they respond to those issues on the forums, and the history of account actions taken. Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues. Therefore, please keep TurboHUD and other things out of this message, as it makes the issue more blurry and might result in a vague response. If we put the spotlight on one very specific issue and the community speaks as a whole, chances are significantly higher to get a strong response (i.e., hopefully *action* and not just *words*).
2) "Some people on the list have done X and shouldn't be allowed to sign it".
I guess those people on the list are the streamers. They're often being called out for exploiting, botting, or other violations of the ToS (I am not including TurboHUD here and refer to point 1) - keep it out of this thread). However, when they use exploits they usually do this to force Blizzard to act against it (example: blood shard exploit). On the other hand, all people on this list, especially the streamers, have a history of speaking up publicly against botting. Look at it this way: with this letter we are urging Blizzard to act. We are reminding them of their EULA and asking them to take action against those who violate the rules of the game. Why should anyone who is playing this game competitively violate those rules and then join an open letter which will eventually jeopardize their progress?
It's okay to have your own opinion and you're free to express it in this thread. But please do refrain from accusations for which you have no proof, and keep this thread on topic (the botting issue). Those are my only two requests, thanks.