If I'm replacing a tals offhand with 10 APoc and 9 cc what is the bare minimum needed on a chants offhand for the upgrade to be worth it? I'm reading I would need at least 7 APoc on it or it would be worthless. Anything with 10 thats not a major dps downgrade is around 250m I'm just wondering what the best route is.
Alright so it looks like I will need one with at least 9 Apoc since I'm running mempo and a 9 APOC chants mainhand. May have to sacrifice some sheet dps but I'm sure the 8IAS should compensate for that and the int bonus from the set. Thanks for the help!
I thoroughly believe that 18 APoC is NOT the minimum necessary value to maintain acceptable results with the CMWW build.
I've ran CMWW for a long time now, at many different values of APoC. I started at 28, and even with barely having 2 APS and 40% crit, I just couldn't run out of AP. I went to 23 and had the same results. Dropped to 2 APoC items for a total of 19, but got up to 2.3 APS and still just 48% crit, couldn't run out. Now I run 15 APoC and I can perma-freeze Ubers with no problems. If I was at the 3APS mark they'd never move. If you're going to look for an APoC Chant's and you will be at 50%CC and the 2.73APS breakpoint with it, you're fine with 15APoC and up. You can get considerably more damage on a 6 APoC Chant's Force than you would on a 9-10 APoC Force for the same price.
Alright so it looks like I will need one with at least 9 Apoc since I'm running mempo and a 9 APOC chants mainhand. May have to sacrifice some sheet dps but I'm sure the 8IAS should compensate for that and the int bonus from the set. Thanks for the help!
The IAS bonus only helps if it gets you to a new APS breakpoint. If you're already over 2.73 and your new APS is below 3.0, it's not worth it. Same if you're over 2.5 and new APS is below 2.73. I have a quick reference IAS threshold tab in my DPS spreadsheet that has the needed IAS on gear for all sorts of combination of weapons if you want to see before hand what IAS you need to reach the next breakpoint.
iam at 2.28 attacks per second and i run with 19 apoc works fine but i wont recommend getting lower. may be 18 is ok too
2.28 is close to the next break point (2.31), you should try to get there; otherwise you could just get rid of some IAS, because there's no difference in having 2.28 or 2.15 (both 28 ticks). 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 APoC - it's not such a big difference, more important are the APS break points. As long as you have any two pieces of gear with APoC, you're probably fine.
17 apoc is almost pushing it and only works well if you have really good CC (at least 55% i would say).
From my experience of course.
I've ran CMWW for a long time now, at many different values of APoC. I started at 28, and even with barely having 2 APS and 40% crit, I just couldn't run out of AP. I went to 23 and had the same results. Dropped to 2 APoC items for a total of 19, but got up to 2.3 APS and still just 48% crit, couldn't run out. Now I run 15 APoC and I can perma-freeze Ubers with no problems. If I was at the 3APS mark they'd never move. If you're going to look for an APoC Chant's and you will be at 50%CC and the 2.73APS breakpoint with it, you're fine with 15APoC and up. You can get considerably more damage on a 6 APoC Chant's Force than you would on a 9-10 APoC Force for the same price.
The IAS bonus only helps if it gets you to a new APS breakpoint. If you're already over 2.73 and your new APS is below 3.0, it's not worth it. Same if you're over 2.5 and new APS is below 2.73. I have a quick reference IAS threshold tab in my DPS spreadsheet that has the needed IAS on gear for all sorts of combination of weapons if you want to see before hand what IAS you need to reach the next breakpoint.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
2.28 is close to the next break point (2.31), you should try to get there; otherwise you could just get rid of some IAS, because there's no difference in having 2.28 or 2.15 (both 28 ticks). 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 APoC - it's not such a big difference, more important are the APS break points. As long as you have any two pieces of gear with APoC, you're probably fine.