What if the added set bonuses were only minor? So you might wear a couple of pieces for the first bonus but still use your unique/crafted sword because it's better for your build.
I'd rather cool set bonuses (like procs and stats that you can't find on other gear or are hard to find) over strong gear within a set. Otherwise, there wouldn't be all that much of a point to going out of your way to collect and trade for set pieces. The only problem with that is if a certain set doesn't give very good bonuses for certain classes.
As for the overall topic, I also think that quest related or boss specific sets would work well.
Im not sure if this has been brought up or not yet. but one way that set-items may work could be as follows:
1.
)this step could take some tweaking, but for the time being works for this scenario.)
All items in a set could drop at anytime anywhere for any lvl character.
2.
Each set contains items that vary among lvl requirement. So gloves may be lvl 4 req and chest may be lvl 40 req.
3.
The lvl 4 gloves contain basic attributes, i.e +4 str.
while the lvl 40 chest contains +50str.
The chest piece would have to be overpowered in comparison to the gloves to balance out the gloves low attributes for end-game usability.
Of course the +50 str would only be available when the gloves were worn in unison to the chestpiece or else you would only want to wear the chestpiece.
So if you were to collect all the items for a set, with each piece balancing out the lower lvl items as you were able to use them you could potentially use a set for the entirety of the game with a single item such as an amulet or w/e being the super rare item and (possibly multiple super rare items?) finalizing the set and making it a set worth workign towards.
Again, this theory probably needs a bit of work and tweaking but I think it could potentially make a working foundation for gear sets.
I think all the options could be used. I do like the idea about set jackpots (Monster drops a complete set) (ES mod for D2 has it and other mods as well)
I am thinking that it would be cool if you can create your own set with Artisans. The Set would have the Characters name. They would be basically following the crafting rule where you might be allowed to choose some mods but most mods would be random. The more complex the set the more expensive and difficult to create. Only that character can wear it. You may have to try multiple times to get what you want.
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I think starting low and growing.
By this i mean that i chose Scalable with character level and Craftable.
I don't want just one of those, i want both. We get lower level set items and can upgrade them to their high lvl versions using the Artisans and tons of materials.
Of course the higher level versions should be able to drop off monsters too, but for the unlucky ones that don't have those to drop it would be a really nice alternative and a goal to work towards.
I voted other, for Quest related sets. Airandius has an excellent point that sets should be from famous lore characters, or heroes of sanctuary, even if they are made up in game. I remember in Dungeon siege they had little mini questlines of going thru puzzle or monster-heavy dungeons to pick up one or two items of a set at the end of it, where the hero hid his armor or weapons for fear of it falling into the wrong hands. This sort of idea would make set items available at any level, and pretty tailorable to when they're relevant, as well as some nice lore or history behind it that could even be included on the flavor text, or told to you by cain as he identifies it, altho that little idea sounds kickass in any case.
Like before a major quest point, there are a series of three sub-dungeons in the dungeon you are in, and each leads to a chest with some minor rewards and a piece of a set. it doesn't have to be a full set, but wearing all the pieces influences the chance of a unique monster appearance further in the dungeon, or as an aide during the major quest event that drops the rest of the pieces when killed.
Another possibility is in certain dungeons, a rare/unique monster could show up, and when killed drops a map that leads you to a dungeon that only the map can open, where there is either a guaranteed set droppage, or a much higher chance that pieces of that set will drop in that dungeon. Only one of each piece can drop, to prevent farming and increase the chances of getting more of the set. This holds true with diablo's random loot tabling, but makes sets better and more relevant at lower levels.
This can also be done with end-game sets, making the challenges much more difficult, essentially like a boss in dungeon form, while decreasing the drop rate of the set to make it a little more farmable, adding much more to do at max lvl.
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The problem with the increase set find stat is the same problem as MF was is D2. What did any of the numbers mean? I have 280MF, so I am how much more likely to find an item? This number meant almost nothing other than it was higher than 270MF. The set increase would be the same. Unless they give us an actual percentage or let us know exactly how it is affecting our loot, the number means next to nothing. This is what I mean by knowing what I would have gotten without the stat boost. Not actually knowing the item that would have dropped but more importantly, knowing how many magic/set items I got solely because of the stat boost.
As for the actual increase in find, this doesn't work very well to complete sets because you are trying to increase the chance of getting 1-5 items out of the nearly endless amounts of possible loot drops. Therefore, for this to work, the increase would have to be in the millions to actual increase the chance of getting one particular item. Otherwise, you could apply the increase to only other set drops. SO, lets say I kill a guy and randomly, he drops a set item, then the increase stat would increase the likelihood of that set item being the one I need. Again, this number could not be too drastic otherwise it will be too easy to obtain other set items. Too little and it won't do its just, especially considering you already have to get a set item to drop in the first place.
Again, this is a possibility and one I thought of including on the poll, the problem is that the mechanic is just to fickle. Players would have to know how much it is helping them to complete the set without making it a certainty that the player will get the item. IMO, the balancing would just be impossible. With MF, the stat increases all magic items, if it were applied to sets, it would have to be scaled by the thousands set there are only a tiny portion of items that are sets compared to the million of possibilities with magic items.
@Air - Speaking in real world terms, set items would probably not be complete. Think about some artifacts from people that lived hundreds if not thousands of years ago. It is not like all of their artifacts found all reside in one place. They usually are found and separated, sold to museums or on the black market. The next thing you know, this one person's belongings are spread across the entire world.
I don't like the quest idea because it makes it too certain that you can get a complete set. Sure, there is the challenge of completing the dungeon to get all the pieces but you know that if you do, you will have a complete set. Again, this tales away from the randomness that makes diablo's loot system. It's the same reason why I wouldn't want bosses to have specific loot drop tables that people can farm to ensure they get specific items.
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Set items come in a set because they were worn by some hero that was awesome or a person that was present at some giant event. It would make sense to me that these items would be placed at certain locations instead of being randomly dropped by a monster that found it by digging through some dirt.
I completely agree with this, and your example was nice as well!
I like the idea of a set material. Set items salvage into it and adding it to a recipe would give you a set item of some kind. But this is very general and likely hard to implement as is.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
The only thing I don't like about the Set dungeons is that it becomes "you want this item,you have to go here to get it". Also there's nothing stopping you from using a higher level character to go back and farm a mid tier set for your current character.
There's also the idea I had earlier where set items would drop in pairs, so you get part of the set bonus from the get go and then it's down to luck to find the rest. It's quite a hard system to balance. How do other games manage it? I remember easily finding the same set in Torchlight, whether it doesn't have many sets in the game or your chances increase as you collect the set pieces. In WoW I think you get pieces of specific bosses or as quest rewards?
First off, I'm not worried about the mf stat itself. My problem with it was that the number was arbitrary. I understand that (for simplicity's sake) that a 300 mf meant I was 3x as likely to get a magic item. However, this number means nothing if you do not have a base number to apply it to. There was no base number is D2 for the player to know how much it was actually affecting their drop. I could say that a human is 1,000 more likely to die from cancer than any other animal but without knowing how many animals die from cancer, that number means nothing. But, if I say 10 animals die each year from cancer, than that stat increase now means something (this is just an example and not a fact). Increase any stat by a percentage without knowing it's base value it is effecting is meaningless.
As for the stat increase for gear find. I think 1 in 1,000 is a more realistic drop rate for set items than 1 in a hundred. So, with some fancy math, we have to kill 1,000 mobs to get a set item. Now, let's say there is 100 set pieces. That means to get the one set item I am looking for, there is a range of 10,000 - 100,000 range of monsters I have to kill. Now this is assuming all set items can drop. Even if we reduced to a smaller range to like all sets below lvl 30 (apprx half) that is still a max of 50,000. So, if I wanted a stat to increase this to a viable number, it would have to increase by an absurd number to make it more likely. And again, this is all chance even with increased stats. There is a chance I could kill 10,000,000 monsters and nnever get that drop make the increase a moot point anyway. This is my problem with increase chance to find.
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First off, I'm not worried about the mf stat itself. My problem with it was that the number was arbitrary. I understand that (for simplicity's sake) that a 300 mf meant I was 3x as likely to get a magic item. However, this number means nothing if you do not have a base number to apply it to. There was no base number is D2 for the player to know how much it was actually affecting their drop. I could say that a human is 1,000 more likely to die from cancer than any other animal but without knowing how many animals die from cancer, that number means nothing. But, if I say 10 animals die each year from cancer, than that stat increase now means something (this is just an example and not a fact). Increase any stat by a percentage without knowing it's base value it is effecting is meaningless.
I don't understand why we need to know all the numbers behind it as long as it works. Blizzard will know the numbers and they can tweak it during the beta so it will work as intended. It's not like MF where you would try to add as much as you can, it's something that works underneath the hood.
As for the stat increase for gear find. I think 1 in 1,000 is a more realistic drop rate for set items than 1 in a hundred. So, with some fancy math, we have to kill 1,000 mobs to get a set item. Now, let's say there is 100 set pieces. That means to get the one set item I am looking for, there is a range of 10,000 - 100,000 range of monsters I have to kill. Now this is assuming all set items can drop. Even if we reduced to a smaller range to like all sets below lvl 30 (apprx half) that is still a max of 50,000. So, if I wanted a stat to increase this to a viable number, it would have to increase by an absurd number to make it more likely. And again, this is all chance even with increased stats. There is a chance I could kill 10,000,000 monsters and nnever get that drop make the increase a moot point anyway. This is my problem with increase chance to find.
This is how chance works, and the item system is based on it. Blizzard can adjust the rates during beta based on feedback. You're either lucky or unlucky when you're searching for items in Diablo, but the static hidden bonus from wearing the gear can be balanced with enough feedback. It's like the lottery, in one play-through (act I to IV)you might only find a couple of pieces from different sets, but in another play-through you could find a complete set or 2 half complete sets. But you're bound to complete a few viable sets playing from normal to hell difficulty because the odds are in your favour everytime a set item drops.
My main point is that trying to get one particular item in a game like diablo just doesn't work. There are probably millions of loot drop possibilities. And you want to try to find one particular item out of these millions.
It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Giving someone a magnifying glass probably won't help to find it. Otherwise you have to burn the whole stack down to eliminate it to ensure the person can find the needle afterwards. Even removing half of the hay still makes it next to impossible. Finding a one in a million item just comes from luck.
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I'd like to see them scale with level. Also they should have the level cap removed. A max level set would be fine if they made them more specialized. A set shouldn't be the best damage dealing equipment you should get. They should be less damage then say uniques of the same level but they should have certain niches. Using D2 as a template they could make sets for say:
Fire Resistance
Poison Resistance
Magic Find
Damage to Undead
Damage to Demons
Gold Drop
Maybe even a +exp set.
Sets shouldn't be something you aim for to be a lot of damage. That makes them painful to break up. They should have specific uses.
So to reiterate make them scale but less base damage stats, more niche stats on sets.
The only thing I don't like about the Set dungeons is that it becomes "you want this item,you have to go here to get it". Also there's nothing stopping you from using a higher level character to go back and farm a mid tier set for your current character.
It's this reason alone that certain items can't drop off of certain mobs.
Alright, how about a combination of a few already mentioned:
One quest where you will definitely find 1 set item.. When you find that and take it to the Craftsman he will identify it for you, and be able to make the second item in that particular set..
As for the rest, increased drop chance? Also craftable? Dont know
Alright, how about a combination of a few already mentioned:
One quest where you will definitely find 1 set item.. When you find that and take it to the Craftsman he will identify it for you, and be able to make the second item in that particular set..
As for the rest, increased drop chance? Also craftable? Dont know
If the quest is once per difficulty I think this is a good idea, and not farmable. The set piece should be useful for your class. Then the increased drop chance should help you eventually complete the set.
It would be cool if wearing an unfinished set increased the drop chance of the parts you were missing. As if they were magically attracted to each other.
I understand how one can think that 300MF doesn't mean much if you don't have the base value, but nevertheless 300MF means that you will have to kill only 1/4 of monsters you needed to kill without 300MF, and we can always ask blizzard to tell us the base value
Someone should tweet blizzard, they seem to answer people's questions on twitter more than anywhere else. However I don't have a twitter account =(
End game only set? So only people that make it trought Hell can look at them? Rather not have any set then, the only way to be pleased with set is with the CRAFTING system. CRAFTING. C R A F T I N G.!!!!
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As for the overall topic, I also think that quest related or boss specific sets would work well.
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1.
)this step could take some tweaking, but for the time being works for this scenario.)
All items in a set could drop at anytime anywhere for any lvl character.
2.
Each set contains items that vary among lvl requirement. So gloves may be lvl 4 req and chest may be lvl 40 req.
3.
The lvl 4 gloves contain basic attributes, i.e +4 str.
while the lvl 40 chest contains +50str.
The chest piece would have to be overpowered in comparison to the gloves to balance out the gloves low attributes for end-game usability.
Of course the +50 str would only be available when the gloves were worn in unison to the chestpiece or else you would only want to wear the chestpiece.
So if you were to collect all the items for a set, with each piece balancing out the lower lvl items as you were able to use them you could potentially use a set for the entirety of the game with a single item such as an amulet or w/e being the super rare item and (possibly multiple super rare items?) finalizing the set and making it a set worth workign towards.
Again, this theory probably needs a bit of work and tweaking but I think it could potentially make a working foundation for gear sets.
I am thinking that it would be cool if you can create your own set with Artisans. The Set would have the Characters name. They would be basically following the crafting rule where you might be allowed to choose some mods but most mods would be random. The more complex the set the more expensive and difficult to create. Only that character can wear it. You may have to try multiple times to get what you want.
By this i mean that i chose Scalable with character level and Craftable.
I don't want just one of those, i want both. We get lower level set items and can upgrade them to their high lvl versions using the Artisans and tons of materials.
Of course the higher level versions should be able to drop off monsters too, but for the unlucky ones that don't have those to drop it would be a really nice alternative and a goal to work towards.
Like before a major quest point, there are a series of three sub-dungeons in the dungeon you are in, and each leads to a chest with some minor rewards and a piece of a set. it doesn't have to be a full set, but wearing all the pieces influences the chance of a unique monster appearance further in the dungeon, or as an aide during the major quest event that drops the rest of the pieces when killed.
Another possibility is in certain dungeons, a rare/unique monster could show up, and when killed drops a map that leads you to a dungeon that only the map can open, where there is either a guaranteed set droppage, or a much higher chance that pieces of that set will drop in that dungeon. Only one of each piece can drop, to prevent farming and increase the chances of getting more of the set. This holds true with diablo's random loot tabling, but makes sets better and more relevant at lower levels.
This can also be done with end-game sets, making the challenges much more difficult, essentially like a boss in dungeon form, while decreasing the drop rate of the set to make it a little more farmable, adding much more to do at max lvl.
As for the actual increase in find, this doesn't work very well to complete sets because you are trying to increase the chance of getting 1-5 items out of the nearly endless amounts of possible loot drops. Therefore, for this to work, the increase would have to be in the millions to actual increase the chance of getting one particular item. Otherwise, you could apply the increase to only other set drops. SO, lets say I kill a guy and randomly, he drops a set item, then the increase stat would increase the likelihood of that set item being the one I need. Again, this number could not be too drastic otherwise it will be too easy to obtain other set items. Too little and it won't do its just, especially considering you already have to get a set item to drop in the first place.
Again, this is a possibility and one I thought of including on the poll, the problem is that the mechanic is just to fickle. Players would have to know how much it is helping them to complete the set without making it a certainty that the player will get the item. IMO, the balancing would just be impossible. With MF, the stat increases all magic items, if it were applied to sets, it would have to be scaled by the thousands set there are only a tiny portion of items that are sets compared to the million of possibilities with magic items.
@Air - Speaking in real world terms, set items would probably not be complete. Think about some artifacts from people that lived hundreds if not thousands of years ago. It is not like all of their artifacts found all reside in one place. They usually are found and separated, sold to museums or on the black market. The next thing you know, this one person's belongings are spread across the entire world.
I don't like the quest idea because it makes it too certain that you can get a complete set. Sure, there is the challenge of completing the dungeon to get all the pieces but you know that if you do, you will have a complete set. Again, this tales away from the randomness that makes diablo's loot system. It's the same reason why I wouldn't want bosses to have specific loot drop tables that people can farm to ensure they get specific items.
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I completely agree with this, and your example was nice as well!
There's also the idea I had earlier where set items would drop in pairs, so you get part of the set bonus from the get go and then it's down to luck to find the rest. It's quite a hard system to balance. How do other games manage it? I remember easily finding the same set in Torchlight, whether it doesn't have many sets in the game or your chances increase as you collect the set pieces. In WoW I think you get pieces of specific bosses or as quest rewards?
As for the stat increase for gear find. I think 1 in 1,000 is a more realistic drop rate for set items than 1 in a hundred. So, with some fancy math, we have to kill 1,000 mobs to get a set item. Now, let's say there is 100 set pieces. That means to get the one set item I am looking for, there is a range of 10,000 - 100,000 range of monsters I have to kill. Now this is assuming all set items can drop. Even if we reduced to a smaller range to like all sets below lvl 30 (apprx half) that is still a max of 50,000. So, if I wanted a stat to increase this to a viable number, it would have to increase by an absurd number to make it more likely. And again, this is all chance even with increased stats. There is a chance I could kill 10,000,000 monsters and nnever get that drop make the increase a moot point anyway. This is my problem with increase chance to find.
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I don't understand why we need to know all the numbers behind it as long as it works. Blizzard will know the numbers and they can tweak it during the beta so it will work as intended. It's not like MF where you would try to add as much as you can, it's something that works underneath the hood.
This is how chance works, and the item system is based on it. Blizzard can adjust the rates during beta based on feedback. You're either lucky or unlucky when you're searching for items in Diablo, but the static hidden bonus from wearing the gear can be balanced with enough feedback. It's like the lottery, in one play-through (act I to IV)you might only find a couple of pieces from different sets, but in another play-through you could find a complete set or 2 half complete sets. But you're bound to complete a few viable sets playing from normal to hell difficulty because the odds are in your favour everytime a set item drops.
It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Giving someone a magnifying glass probably won't help to find it. Otherwise you have to burn the whole stack down to eliminate it to ensure the person can find the needle afterwards. Even removing half of the hay still makes it next to impossible. Finding a one in a million item just comes from luck.
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Fire Resistance
Poison Resistance
Magic Find
Damage to Undead
Damage to Demons
Gold Drop
Maybe even a +exp set.
Sets shouldn't be something you aim for to be a lot of damage. That makes them painful to break up. They should have specific uses.
So to reiterate make them scale but less base damage stats, more niche stats on sets.
It's this reason alone that certain items can't drop off of certain mobs.
One quest where you will definitely find 1 set item.. When you find that and take it to the Craftsman he will identify it for you, and be able to make the second item in that particular set..
As for the rest, increased drop chance? Also craftable? Dont know
If the quest is once per difficulty I think this is a good idea, and not farmable. The set piece should be useful for your class. Then the increased drop chance should help you eventually complete the set.
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Someone should tweet blizzard, they seem to answer people's questions on twitter more than anywhere else. However I don't have a twitter account =(
End game only set? So only people that make it trought Hell can look at them? Rather not have any set then, the only way to be pleased with set is with the CRAFTING system. CRAFTING. C R A F T I N G.!!!!