I think your information on how drop rate percentages actually work is extremely flawed.
/snip
It's kinda the same mentality as someone who wrestles alligators, who says "yeah, there's a 60% chance he could bite me arm off, but don't worry, I'm hardcore, I'll be fine.", then they get stung in the heart by a stingray somewhere in the pacific.
I am aware that drop rates (say 1 in 10) don't guarantee that an item will drop in that given frame (you won't automatically get the drop on the 10th kill if you haven't gotten it yet). But in an average case, with a sufficiently large sample size, the ratio will be extremely close to the expected drop rate.
I see both sides of the chosen/random effect debate. Both sides have pros, both sides have cons, which weighs heavier for you will vary on a person-by-person basis. I like the random effect because it brings more of a focus to the AH/trading, which I really enjoyed playing around with in WoW. I like the chosen/predetermined effect because it means quicker satisfaction with regard to getting your skills exactly where you want them.
The gambler in me is a little louder on this than the lazy bastard, so I lean towards the randomization side. I would not be unhappy with either.
I prefer knowing the type and level of the rune before hand... but i do love the random attributes when you attune to a skill. i'd say it's one of the better ideas they had as of late.
So let's say you get a lvl 7 rune, socket it, and u dont get the effect u want, You can SALVAGE this rune, for some other awesome stuff...Like if u salvage 5 lvl 7 runes, you can craft the lvl 7 rune of your choice..
I think this is actually a pretty clever idea. You still get the random effect that some people like, but there's a system in place to avoid endless farming without ever getting what you want that makes other people hate the idea of the random effects. I think this would be a great compromise...thoughts?
So let's say you get a lvl 7 rune, socket it, and u dont get the effect u want, You can SALVAGE this rune, for some other awesome stuff...Like if u salvage 5 lvl 7 runes, you can craft the lvl 7 rune of your choice..
I think this is actually a pretty clever idea. You still get the random effect that some people like, but there's a system in place to avoid endless farming without ever getting what you want that makes other people hate the idea of the random effects. I think this would be a great compromise...thoughts?
i think this would be a good compromise as well. how about the crafted lv 7 rune will also have 1 of the 5 attributes of the 5 salvaged runes lol. That way it'll actually matter to an extent what kind of lv 7 runes.
ie. if you salvage runes with good attributes, you're rune will have one of those good attributes.
i think this would be a good compromise as well. how about the crafted lv 7 rune will also have 1 of the 5 attributes of the 5 salvaged runes lol. That way it'll actually matter to an extent what kind of lv 7 runes.
ie. if you salvage runes with good attributes, you're rune will have one of those good attributes.
Well, I'm not really sure that's feasible from a design standpoint. The game's not going to keep track of the stats that were on the rune that the Super Rune Dust 7 (or whatever you want to call it) came from. I think any stats should still be random. In fact, I think it would actually make more sense if crafted Runes didn't have stats on them at all, so there would still be a sense of prestige and a reason to find your Runes instead of craft them. But it wouldn't be so difficult to get the Rune effect you're looking for, so you can still take luck somewhat out of the equation in playing how you want to play.
Well, I'm not really sure that's feasible from a design standpoint. The game's not going to keep track of the stats that were on the rune that the Super Rune Dust 7 (or whatever you want to call it) came from. I think any stats should still be random. In fact, I think it would actually make more sense if crafted Runes didn't have stats on them at all, so there would still be a sense of prestige and a reason to find your Runes instead of craft them. But it wouldn't be so difficult to get the Rune effect you're looking for, so you can still take luck somewhat out of the equation in playing how you want to play.
Depends on if the attribute as an id associated with it. If it did, it's not so difficult to have a random generated algorithm to choose one of the 5. I still prefer non-random much much more.
Food for thought, imagine your character having random auto-stat.
A thought for the grey unattuned rune that would roll a random color when inserted (if that was what JW was talking about.) Would that mean there is only one kind of level 7 rune able to drop? Let's say the droprate is 0.1%. Would not the droprate be 0.1%/5 if there were 5 kinds of level 7 runes (crimson, alabaster, indigo etc.) and the chance for you to get the level 7 crimson rune for your skill be the same regardless of system?
Short answer: yes, it would be .1%/5.
Long answer: There are a couple of ways they could go about it, but lets say they want any given rune type (of level 7) to have a drop chance of 1 in 5,000,000. They could either do this by having the colored rune drop, already identified as a color (lvl 7 alabaster rune) or have <unidentified> level 7 runes drop 1 in 1,000,000 and then have the rune type be decided (out of 5 possible types) when you ID it.
After thinking this over for a bit, I think it's actually a very very good idea. It'll make high-end specific runes that you want very rare and expensive, which is exactly what Diablo should be about. It should be about finding rare loot and gear, then trading such rare loot, and now with D3 - selling such exotic loot for cash money.
This system looks pretty cool, really adds up even more customization in the game. However I saw someone mention something on the US forums that changed my mind a little.
He said that if I can reroll the rune at the mystic for some money, I will eventually get the rune I want no matter what right? Then why can't I just get the rune I want without having the mystic doing the same bullcrap over and over again?
This has changed my opinion, I think it would be great to have random stats on runes, but I really do want to see what rune I put in my skills.
Just make the re-roll very expensive (salvaged items and six or seven figure gold amounts) to deter mass re-rolling, problem solved. It wouldn't stop people from re-rolling but people would essentially have to farm money and materials to try to get better runes, it would add another end game grind.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I REALLY dislike this system. I'd much rather see "Crimson Rune Level 7" drop than a blank one. 80% of the time you're not going to get the color you want. If they want to add affixes to runes, fine, just make them magic items. But with the case of unattuned runes they'd better drop like rain in order to give me the combination I want.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding it and they mean to add a 6th type of rune drop - unattuned. And the unattuned are the only ones to get affixes. In that case, I'm fine with it as long as I can choose regular runes to plug in.
I don't understand it very well myself. Why would we want to randomly specialize our characters? It's comparable to going to the auction house and buying a completely random jewel, who knows what you're going to get. Except this is our character's skill build plan.... This doesn't make sense. If players should have ease of control it should be one thing, the way in which they specialize their skills through customization.
I don't like the system jay put forwards. The fact that the runes drop randomly to begin with is already enough randomization. If you -have- to take it a step further, I'd settle for random minor affixes for the hardcore players who have no lives and can spend every waking moment sitting in town messing with artisans. We already have completely random item drops, random item affixes, random crafting item affixes, random jewel/rune drop chance etc. If you factor in random dropping charms with random stats into all of this with an expansion it's just too much.
The more I hear about this rune system the less involved I feel I'm able going to be in the diablo universe. I have to go to school, work, maintain relationships and support family and friends. I don't have time for that crap.
I don't understand it very well myself. Why would we want to randomly specialize our characters? It's comparable to going to the auction house and buying a completely random jewel, who knows what you're going to get. Except this is our character's skill build plan.... This doesn't make sense. If players should have ease of control it should be one thing, the way in which they specialize their skills through customization.
I don't like the system jay put forwards. The fact that the runes drop randomly to begin with is already enough randomization. If you -have- to take it a step further, I'd settle for random minor affixes for the hardcore players who have no lives and can spend every waking moment sitting in town messing with artisans. We already have completely random item drops, random item affixes, random crafting item affixes, random jewel/rune drop chance etc. If you factor in random dropping charms with random stats into all of this with an expansion it's just too much.
The more I hear about this rune system the less involved I feel I'm able going to be in the diablo universe. I have to go to school, work, maintain relationships and support family and friends. I don't have time for that crap.
I do find it overall quite silly and I'm not super happy about it but I'll deal, the question is can you deal not having an uber character since you don't have the time.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I was under the impression that Unattuned Runes was IN ADDITION to regular Runes dropping as well...No?
If not, I think that would help out.
Have regular Runes still drop but they don't have any of the stat bonuses of Unattuned Runes. This way people can go with "what they know" (or feel) to work until they find/trade/buy the Attuned Rune they are really looking for.
I thought the Mystic could make regular Runes? Is that being taken out in this iteration then? Maybe I'm wrong.
I think the system works awesomely if they keep both types of Runes in. I can see how it could be frustrating having such a random factor to something that is supposed to be a HUGE/KEY part to customizing your play style, BUT...I can also see how it can be fun/exciting to find the PERFECT Rune or to buy and sell them!
Keeping plain Runes in addition to Unattuned Runes alleviates the frustration but keeps the fun parts of the new system.
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I am aware that drop rates (say 1 in 10) don't guarantee that an item will drop in that given frame (you won't automatically get the drop on the 10th kill if you haven't gotten it yet). But in an average case, with a sufficiently large sample size, the ratio will be extremely close to the expected drop rate.
I see both sides of the chosen/random effect debate. Both sides have pros, both sides have cons, which weighs heavier for you will vary on a person-by-person basis. I like the random effect because it brings more of a focus to the AH/trading, which I really enjoyed playing around with in WoW. I like the chosen/predetermined effect because it means quicker satisfaction with regard to getting your skills exactly where you want them.
The gambler in me is a little louder on this than the lazy bastard, so I lean towards the randomization side. I would not be unhappy with either.
Also: too soon! :-p
I think this is actually a pretty clever idea. You still get the random effect that some people like, but there's a system in place to avoid endless farming without ever getting what you want that makes other people hate the idea of the random effects. I think this would be a great compromise...thoughts?
ie. if you salvage runes with good attributes, you're rune will have one of those good attributes.
Well, I'm not really sure that's feasible from a design standpoint. The game's not going to keep track of the stats that were on the rune that the Super Rune Dust 7 (or whatever you want to call it) came from. I think any stats should still be random. In fact, I think it would actually make more sense if crafted Runes didn't have stats on them at all, so there would still be a sense of prestige and a reason to find your Runes instead of craft them. But it wouldn't be so difficult to get the Rune effect you're looking for, so you can still take luck somewhat out of the equation in playing how you want to play.
Food for thought, imagine your character having random auto-stat.
Short answer: yes, it would be .1%/5.
Long answer: There are a couple of ways they could go about it, but lets say they want any given rune type (of level 7) to have a drop chance of 1 in 5,000,000. They could either do this by having the colored rune drop, already identified as a color (lvl 7 alabaster rune) or have <unidentified> level 7 runes drop 1 in 1,000,000 and then have the rune type be decided (out of 5 possible types) when you ID it.
In aggregate it would amount to the same thing.
Just make the re-roll very expensive (salvaged items and six or seven figure gold amounts) to deter mass re-rolling, problem solved. It wouldn't stop people from re-rolling but people would essentially have to farm money and materials to try to get better runes, it would add another end game grind.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding it and they mean to add a 6th type of rune drop - unattuned. And the unattuned are the only ones to get affixes. In that case, I'm fine with it as long as I can choose regular runes to plug in.
I don't like the system jay put forwards. The fact that the runes drop randomly to begin with is already enough randomization. If you -have- to take it a step further, I'd settle for random minor affixes for the hardcore players who have no lives and can spend every waking moment sitting in town messing with artisans. We already have completely random item drops, random item affixes, random crafting item affixes, random jewel/rune drop chance etc. If you factor in random dropping charms with random stats into all of this with an expansion it's just too much.
The more I hear about this rune system the less involved I feel I'm able going to be in the diablo universe. I have to go to school, work, maintain relationships and support family and friends. I don't have time for that crap.
I do find it overall quite silly and I'm not super happy about it but I'll deal, the question is can you deal not having an uber character since you don't have the time.
If not, I think that would help out.
Have regular Runes still drop but they don't have any of the stat bonuses of Unattuned Runes. This way people can go with "what they know" (or feel) to work until they find/trade/buy the Attuned Rune they are really looking for.
I thought the Mystic could make regular Runes? Is that being taken out in this iteration then? Maybe I'm wrong.
I think the system works awesomely if they keep both types of Runes in. I can see how it could be frustrating having such a random factor to something that is supposed to be a HUGE/KEY part to customizing your play style, BUT...I can also see how it can be fun/exciting to find the PERFECT Rune or to buy and sell them!
Keeping plain Runes in addition to Unattuned Runes alleviates the frustration but keeps the fun parts of the new system.