So you don't want a challenge? Are you afraid of hunting a little for the things you want? Effort takes time. If you don't get the rune you want, then sell it, salvage it, and buy the rune you want on the AH and trading..
Why do you think that you just throw the rune away? Have you given this any thought at all? Seems you haven't. You can sell, salvage it for nice stuff.
problem solved. In time, alot of runes will be on the AH. Runes are SUPPOSED to be hard to find an supposed to be hard to get exactly the way u want, it's part of what makes it so challenging to find the absolute best rune item there is.
By throw away I mean not use it on my skills which is what runes are about. Selling it for gold or salvaging it brings certain rewards but it is nothing compared to putting it in your skill and then tearing the world down.
Of course I want a challenge. Fighting and working hard to get the high level rune I want is what I'm after. But that can be easily achieved by simply making high level runes drop very rarely. However the system as proposed by JW is just straight up frustrating. Either runes will have to drop a LOT or the absolute and I mean absolute majority of players can forget about ever getting more than ONE skill runed the way they actually wanted across all their characters they ever make. If runes are rare and this system of randomness remains then even the most farming of all farmers will hardly ever rune up a single character the way he wants (not considering the ideal attribute bonuses). If you factor in the level of the rune, the various effects it can give and the attribute bonuses, the probability of EVER getting a single rune that actually suits you are next to zero. Even if we consider that all 7 levels of runes would drop at the same rate which they surely won't, the chance of getting a lvl 7 rune and with the right effect for the given skill and the right attribute bonus is just too small if runes remain the rare item they were intended to be. They would have to drop a lot to give players a fair chance of ever getting the one they want. Which in turn somewhat decreases the excitement in hunting for runes.
Picture these three situations: Runes drop very rarely with fixed effects and random attribute bonuses. You strive hard and finally a rune drops for you. You grab it and open your inventory. YES! After three months of trying it's finally a level 7 rune. The attribute bonus is not what you hoped for but screw it. Now you carefully consider which skill you are going to use it for and place it in there. Then you just rush headfirst into battle and enjoy your newly awesome skill.
Sitation two: Runes drop a lot but have a lot of randomness about them. Chances are when you find a rune it won't help you in the way you wanted. You play for hours and runes drop left and right. You try one, it's a good level but it doesn't give you effect that you wanted. If it were for another skill you might have used such an effect but now it's attuned to another. But at least it gives you some advantages so you keep it and use it. You find another and try again...nothing, the effect is not what you wanted and the rune is only level 2...so you salvage it since the previous one was better. And then you find another and try it with a different skill...again, not what you wanted...but you keep it because it's better than nothing. After a while you have almost all skills runed but none they way which would really help you. By the time you actually do get what you were looking for, the excitement in finding a rune is all but gone.
Situation three: Runes are a rare item and have a lot of randomness about them. After a month of playing you might find maybe one rune higher than level 4. In 80% of cases the rune doesn't do what you wanted it to do (not counting attribute point bonuses), the chance of getting level 7 rune with the right effect is not even worth mentioning. You play for a year and never ever get the rune you wanted for the given skill. Finally frustration just gets the better of you and instead of playing to earn it you just buy it on Auction House. The feeling of a hard earned reward = nonexistant.
Which system is better in your opinion? I personally prefer to have a very rare item but guaranteed reward rather than a pretty common item that most of the time does nothing for me or a very rare item that most of the time does nothing either. Take it as unique items. Is it better to drop low level uniques everywhere with a slim chance that you get a high level one or is it better to have uniques be very few and far in between but when they drop they actually have a fair chance of helping you? It's choice two for me in every imaginable situation.
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A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head!
This seems to me, to be the direction they were going with the removal of skill points - to allow more experimentation and open, easy game-play. The new proposed changes to runes would make us much less likely to experiment, and instead of using 5 runes to trial the 20-odd skills, we would need a minimum of 100 runes (and that is in the unlikely event that you never double up on the runes-skill binding).
The problem with your argument is that skill points were not removed to make the game dumber, they were removed because the skill point mechanic didn't work with the rest of the game. Runes are there to make the skill system more complex.
In fact, the rune system can in effect be considered a soft mechanic to limit respeccing. True, you can switch skills on the fly whenever you want, but unless you have the proper runes to go along with that switch it won't be feasible later in the game. It will definitely be possible in the early game, which will allow you to experiment with different skill setups. But the late game in Hell will not.
I like the system, even the random rune effect thing if they decide to go with that. It's the exact same system that Identify served in D2, so I don't see the big deal with runes being determined after you put them into a skill. You can always just replace them with the old one you just had in there.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I think I would 'enjoy' this new style. It really does sound more in line with the Diablo franchise. And the way my friend and I play tends to be to run one main character through the game and then work on several more based on what gear drops.
Maybe that means he runs a wizard with my barbarian the first time through - then I inherit his unwanted runes for my wizard...
I didn't think that in a Diablo game, there might be something like too much customization. It the case with runes, this gets a little bit over the top. It will be a pain a real pain to find the rune with the right modifier, and with the right amount... In my opinion it will just get too overwhelming.
I see where you're coming from, but I do think they need to add a little bit more complexity to the rune system. As it stands now (or before.. whatever), all you have to do is get a certain level rune to drop and you're good until the next level. Without any sort of random element, the rune system is "Oh, yeah, I have a Level 7 Crimson rune and I never have to upgrade again", which is something I think they want to avoid. Runes won't amount to anything if there is nothing special about them.
I completely agree with you. They will definitely need to add something to the current system. As it stands now, once you find a level 7 rune, you are set, no need to find it again and can easily be moved around skills and characters (especially with the shared stash). At least with the rune system in Diablo 2, once you make a runeword, that rune is gone and you must find another one. This would have worked great if duping wasnt rampant, because of the chance to drop. With this proposed system, there will be a lot of hard choices to make with your runes, and luck when it comes to rolling your attributes. Also, I think that this bind to skill idea will definitely help with the removal of skill points and will prevent the swapping of skills on a whim. With that being said, I think Blizzard understands that the rune system needs to reworked a little with the changes to the skill system, and I think they are going in the right direction. Just my two cents
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
1) There will always be a Best-in-Slot item, and that's true for runes. It's unavoidable. So, yes, eventually you're going to get the best rune you can possibly get and won't have any more upgrades until...
2) With the monetizing of the AH and a consistent stream of revenue for Blizzard, they can now fiscally justify more regular updates like balance patches and, more importantly, the addition of new gear. Of course, this hinges on the RMAH being successful, but I don't think there's any doubt of that happening if other microtransaction games such as League of Legends or Dungeons and Dragons Online are any indication.
I really like this idea. For those who haven't watched the actual video, Jay gives a really good justification for this.
Personally, I'm the type of player that has very few characters. I like to constantly tweak my few mains to make them as strong as possible. In that light, both this (proposed) rune change and the removal of skill points give me tons of options when tweaking my characters to best suit my playstyle.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the one spell that I didn't want an Indigo Rune for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
EDIT: It would make more sense to me if it dropped as "Crimson Rune VII" and then when I whacked it into the spell I wanted it would attune and thus prevent me from using it in my other spells (stopping me from swapping them in and out), requiring me to get another "Crimson Rune VII" to use in another spell where I was after a Crimson Rune for.
Here's my question. Why would attuning a rune to a skill force a rune to change into a randomly generated type of rune? It's like our character or the artisan has a rune attunement ability but is absolutely horrible at it and can't even get the type correct. If we're going the blank rune route, let us choose the type of rune we want the rune to turn into. Maybe when we take it to an artisan or when our character attempts to slot it into a skill, a box appears with the choices of rune types and the specific rune type's affect on the chosen skill appears on mouseover. The randomly generated stats come after. That way the "insert jay wilson's rune transformation noise" will make a bit more sense.
~~ edit ~~
and the rune wipe ability could then work only for the random attributes and not the rune type.
I also feel like there could be the possibility of blank runes dropping, as well as preset runes dropping without random attributes. The only issue that comes from this is the "randomness" in drops. Shamans seem like a monster that would have specific runes, but a zombie type monster would not. There's a small discussion to be had.
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.
It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.
I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.
I believe they should keep the attributes on a random roll when set in a skill and that the rune becomes set with the skill; however, I dont think they should make the type of rune unknown. With the current amount of work it takes to get to a level 7 rune, putting it a skill and getting a worthless rune type is just a kick in the balls...So keep everything in the new system except let the rune type be know, I think that is the best solution imo
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.
It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.
I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.
I believe they should keep the attributes on a random roll when set in a skill and that the rune becomes set with the skill; however, I dont think they should make the type of rune unknown. With the current amount of work it takes to get to a level 7 rune, putting it a skill and getting a worthless rune type is just a kick in the balls...So keep everything in the new system except let the rune type be know, I think that is the best solution imo
That's what I said
Yep, you totally did, what he said, lol, just agreeing with you
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.
It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.
I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.
I agree with you (and Lethal_weapon's comment - second posts below yours). Not knowing the type of rune you will get is just too punishing when you don't get the one you were looking for.
On another note, IF they make the rune type unknown it would be pointless to give the ability to the Mystic to wipe it. If that was the case, you would only need gold to get the rune you want, since after you get a rank 7 rune, you can just keep wiping it and "attuning" it again until you get the one you want. If they do this "new" system, it shouldn't let you wipe it. Otherwise it will pretty much be the same as knowing the exact effect of the rune. The only difference is that it will cost gold (and maybe a ton of gold) to get the exact rune you want.
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.
It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.
I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.
I agree with you (and Lethal_weapon's comment - second posts below yours). Not knowing the type of rune you will get is just too punishing when you don't get the one you were looking for.
On another note, IF they make the rune type unknown it would be pointless to give the ability to the Mystic to wipe it. If that was the case, you would only need gold to get the rune you want, since after you get a rank 7 rune, you can just keep wiping it and "attuning" it again until you get the one you want. If they do this "new" system, it shouldn't let you wipe it. Otherwise it will pretty much be the same as knowing the exact effect of the rune. The only difference is that it will cost gold (and maybe a ton of gold) to get the exact rune you want.
Yea, I agree with you on this as well. They definitely should not allow you to "wipe" the rune clean with the Mystic, because it then eliminates the whole point of not knowing what type of rune it is; though, it will probably cost you heavily in gold/materials. Still think it is counter-productive if they let you do this...
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
As a point of comparison, saying that you should know what type of rune it is sounds awfully similar to saying "i should know if that small charm gives life before i pick it up."
I don't think that's a valid complaint.
Try viewing the "socketing" process as simply using a scroll of identify on the item. Lets go with unique rings as another example, if a unique ring drops and it doesn't turn out to be an SoJ, you don't complain "goddamnit! WHY DIDN'T THEY LET ME KNOW IT WASN'T AN SOJ AHEAD OF TIME!!!1!`" You have a moment of anticipation when you pick it up and right before you identify it, then its "goddamned nagelring" or "oh nice, its a 'ravenfrost,' i needed one for this char" or hell, it might be a BK ring. YOU DON'T KNOW. and when you find out its either trash, useful, trade fodder, or amazing. The same will apply to runes. Except now they can also be cash-money.
getting a (lets say) lvl 5 rune of the type you want would be similar to getting a skiller with a not-great affix attached, lets say like mana (did gc's give mana? i haven't played d2 in a whiiiiile). It gets the job done, but there are upgrades that you will continue looking for (and playing the game for).
lvl 6 and 7 runes will of course be harder to find, but who's to say that they even give THAT much more power. Maybe a lvl 5 magic missile rune lets you hit 6 targets and a lvl 7 lets you hit 8. I think you can get by without those extra 2 hits, but they would certainly help out. it gives you something to play for while not being completely absolutely necessary (opinions will differ on that).
And I hope that runes are re-blank-able. That will be a fantastic gold sink, which will be good for the game's economy.
And you don't just need 1 lvl 7 rune, you'd need anywhere from 6-100, depending on how flexible you plan to be with your character. That makes MASSIVE demand, which makes for healthy trading.
Some people seem to be arguing that there will be no gradient between lvl 1 and 7 rune drops. You'll get a taste of what a run does real early via candy-runes, and then you'll get hell-functional runes probably by the time you get to hell difficulty, with the absolutely best runes being an item hunt similar to an anni charm or hellfire torch or a windforce or whatever.
<br />As a point of comparison, saying that you should know what type of rune it is sounds awfully similar to saying "i should know if that small charm gives life before i pick it up."<br /><br />I don't think that's a valid complaint.<br /><br />Try viewing the "socketing" process as simply using a scroll of identify on the item. Lets go with unique rings as another example, if a unique ring drops and it doesn't turn out to be an SoJ, you don't complain "goddamnit! WHY DIDN'T THEY LET ME KNOW IT WASN'T AN SOJ AHEAD OF TIME!!!1!`" You have a moment of anticipation when you pick it up and right before you identify it, then its "goddamned nagelring" or "oh nice, its a 'ravenfrost,' i needed one for this char" or hell, it might be a BK ring. YOU DON'T KNOW. and when you find out its either trash, useful, trade fodder, or amazing. The same will apply to runes. Except now they can also be cash-money.<br /><br />getting a (lets say) lvl 5 rune of the type you want would be similar to getting a skiller with a not-great affix attached, lets say like mana (did gc's give mana? i haven't played d2 in a whiiiiile). It gets the job done, but there are upgrades that you will continue looking for (and playing the game for).<br /><br />lvl 6 and 7 runes will of course be harder to find, but who's to say that they even give THAT much more power. Maybe a lvl 5 magic missile rune lets you hit 6 targets and a lvl 7 lets you hit 8. I think you can get by without those extra 2 hits, but they would certainly help out. it gives you something to play for while not being completely absolutely necessary (opinions will differ on that).<br /><br />And I hope that runes are re-blank-able. That will be a fantastic gold sink, which will be good for the game's economy. <br /><br />And you don't just need 1 lvl 7 rune, you'd need anywhere from 6-100, depending on how flexible you plan to be with your character. That makes MASSIVE demand, which makes for healthy trading.<br /><br />Some people seem to be arguing that there will be no gradient between lvl 1 and 7 rune drops. You'll get a taste of what a run does real early via candy-runes, and then you'll get hell-functional runes probably by the time you get to hell difficulty, with the absolutely best runes being an item hunt similar to an anni charm or hellfire torch or a windforce or whatever.<br /><br />I don't see how any of that is bad.<br />
<br /><br /><br />they dont need the random affixes on top of being grey, just make it cost a truckload of gold to pull out and no problems
As a point of comparison, saying that you should know what type of rune it is sounds awfully similar to saying "i should know if that small charm gives life before i pick it up."
I don't think that's a valid complaint.
Try viewing the "socketing" process as simply using a scroll of identify on the item. Lets go with unique rings as another example, if a unique ring drops and it doesn't turn out to be an SoJ, you don't complain "goddamnit! WHY DIDN'T THEY LET ME KNOW IT WASN'T AN SOJ AHEAD OF TIME!!!1!`" You have a moment of anticipation when you pick it up and right before you identify it, then its "goddamned nagelring" or "oh nice, its a 'ravenfrost,' i needed one for this char" or hell, it might be a BK ring. YOU DON'T KNOW. and when you find out its either trash, useful, trade fodder, or amazing. The same will apply to runes. Except now they can also be cash-money.
getting a (lets say) lvl 5 rune of the type you want would be similar to getting a skiller with a not-great affix attached, lets say like mana (did gc's give mana? i haven't played d2 in a whiiiiile). It gets the job done, but there are upgrades that you will continue looking for (and playing the game for).
lvl 6 and 7 runes will of course be harder to find, but who's to say that they even give THAT much more power. Maybe a lvl 5 magic missile rune lets you hit 6 targets and a lvl 7 lets you hit 8. I think you can get by without those extra 2 hits, but they would certainly help out. it gives you something to play for while not being completely absolutely necessary (opinions will differ on that).
And I hope that runes are re-blank-able. That will be a fantastic gold sink, which will be good for the game's economy.
And you don't just need 1 lvl 7 rune, you'd need anywhere from 6-100, depending on how flexible you plan to be with your character. That makes MASSIVE demand, which makes for healthy trading.
Some people seem to be arguing that there will be no gradient between lvl 1 and 7 rune drops. You'll get a taste of what a run does real early via candy-runes, and then you'll get hell-functional runes probably by the time you get to hell difficulty, with the absolutely best runes being an item hunt similar to an anni charm or hellfire torch or a windforce or whatever.
I don't see how any of that is bad.
There is a key difference between charms and runes though. Runes define how you play your character. An example I could take out of the press conferance is the battle mage. A rune for arcane orb, a spell you generally wouldn't use as a battle mage, made it swirl protectively around you (mario kart?). My point is that you would never replace your level 6 indigo (just a guess, I don't know what color it is) for a level 7 crimson if you're trying to build a battle mage. I should know what I'm socketing, and I shouldn't have to spend tons of gold if I'm unlucky, since it's a playstyle change, not just a stat change.
This is why I think that unattuned runes should still have a color. The random affixes is what should be random. You would still use a level 7 indigo rune if it had slightly optimal stats over a level 6 indigo rune that has more optimal stats (but less of them). I would feel a lot better about min/maxing by rerolling repeatedly on something that isn't a playstyle choice. Even though I would almost advocate for a complete removal of the affix if you unlock a rune through the mystic, to give your runes more of a sense of investment when you use them. Just my thought though.
There is a key difference between charms and runes though. Runes define how you play your character. An example I could take out of the press conferance is the battle mage. A rune for arcane orb, a spell you generally wouldn't use as a battle mage, made it swirl protectively around you (mario kart?). My point is that you would never replace your level 6 indigo (just a guess, I don't know what color it is) for a level 7 crimson if you're trying to build a battle mage. I should know what I'm socketing, and I shouldn't have to spend tons of gold if I'm unlucky, since it's a playstyle change, not just a stat change.
This is why I think that unattuned runes should still have a color. The random affixes is what should be random. You would still use a level 7 indigo rune if it had slightly optimal stats over a level 6 indigo rune that has more optimal stats (but less of them). I would feel a lot better about min/maxing by rerolling repeatedly on something that isn't a playstyle choice. Even though I would almost advocate for a complete removal of the affix if you unlock a rune through the mystic, to give your runes more of a sense of investment when you use them. Just my thought though.
I understand the attachment to wanting the effect to remain the same. When I first heard what JW had said I was very much "i'd better be able to keep the effect!" but upon further consideration decided that was less of an issure than i thought.
While I hope that a "perfect" affixed 6 is as or even less powerful total (account for both effect and stats) than a "mediocre" 7, I don't think that the difference between a bad lvl 5 and a perfect 7 will stop you from being able to play the game.
A 2 part re-roll where you can choose to not reroll either the affix or the effect would be a perfectly fine middle ground in my mind. i would like it if there was a flat cost to re-roll, but you could choose to re-roll the effect, affix, or both for that price.
edit: cybercheese, it looks like you're quoting the html rather than the standard text, dunno why.
You can use tons and tons of low lvl 1 -2 rank runes to test and experiment. Jay has said this MANY MANY times, that lvl 1 runes will be like candy to throw away... have u not read all the interviews my good sir?
I most definitely have, I also can spell "you". It does not change the fact that, as he said, high level runes will be rare drops, and this system is one that would make it frustrating for the player to try to get the customization he promised in skills via runes. Finding a set of armor that gives you 100% crushing blow is one thing, finding an item that is the only real way to customize the skill you use to kill hundreds of monsters, but drops only rarely, and giving you no idea whether it's the right one or not until you socket it in the skill is a completely different story. Perhaps this is your first diablo game. Imagine the following: You have six active skills. Three passives. Assuming you can also rune passives, that gives you nine skills to try to rune. Even if you can only rune the actives, that's still six skills you need to rune up with level 7 runes, in order to play the way you want to, at end game, so that you can -start- farming for equipment. You're looking at five different rune types. But, since you don't know what rune type you'll have until you socket it, it will go as follows: You have a 20% chance, when you socket the rune, that it's the rune you want for your skill. That's each time. That means there is an 80% chance it's not the rune you want. You could get the rune you want the first time, or you could not. Either way, the rune is used, and you either move on to the next skill, or continue searching for this skill. However, these are rare items, and they attune when socketed, therefore making them useless for another item. So you've experimented, you know you want a golden rune in skill one, an obsidian rune in skill 2, etc. That's great, however, your rune drops and it says "A rune.", you socket it in skill one, "An obsidian rune". Too bad for your luck, huh? You should have socketed it in skill two. But you can't now. Farm again.
Hours later, you may have over twenty runes of every type, except golden, that are attuned to skill one. This is different from farming for a pair of war travelers in one major way: War travelers is an item you use to enhance your magic find. Runes are used to customize your skills, and are the only real way to customize your skills. Anyone can swap out skills, anyone can use magic missile, but runes are the only way to make your magic missile split into two. Runes, effectively, are skill unlockers. Bashiok has stated in previous comments that you can have thousands and thousands of skill combinations. That's with runes. Without runes, you now have base skills. Sure, you can use lower-quality runes to try to fill those slots, but you could still be farming for hours just for lower-quality runes, and that's all just being done so that you can play the game the way you want to, with the skills you want to. That's all being done -just- so you can get to the point where you can farm. Meanwhile, if they dropped the rune with the rune TYPE visible to you from the start, you'd merely have to farm until you find the rune type you wish, then put it in the proper skill, and move on. If they're going to keep runes "Grey", then they need to make them -not- attune when socketed, or they need to let runes be ID'd to show the "color" before socketing. The proposed system, instead, only leads to one question: Why even bother including level 7 runes under that system? Only 5% of the gaming population will even bother with them, and they only serve to delay the release date, for a system not many people will use (same reasoning for why they scrapped a few other systems). As I said, it's unlikely to ship with Jay's proposed system, as it's detrimental to what the team has stated they wish for diablo 3.
I most definitely have, I also can spell "you". It does not change the fact that, as he said, high level runes will be rare drops, and this system is one that would make it frustrating for the player to try to get the customization he promised in skills via runes.
/snip
As I said, it's unlikely to ship with Jay's proposed system, as it's detrimental to what the team has stated they wish for diablo 3.
I think there is some confusion over need vs want in your argument.
Before continuing, I will say that maybe we WILL need lvl 7 runes to farm endgame stuff. I think that unlikely, and think that lower levels of the same runes will be good enough to get by. They may not be. We won't be able to say until the game is out and we're 60.
Additionally, I think that there will be a way outside of actually putting the rune in the skill to pick the skill for the rune if they go with JW's idea, simply because requiring someone to pay to unsocket a rune just to ID a new rune seems excessive. I wouldn't be surpirsed if runes could be "set" by the mystic (either you get to choose its effect like you'd like, or she could reveal what effect the rune is going to be).
The 7-level gradient is actually fantastic for allowing customizability and viability without making optimum builds common. Think of a lvl 7 rune as a zod. How many people ACTUALLY saw one drop? In my view, and this is certainly contestable, lvl 7 runes are not meant to be acquired by everyone. Now, you may argue "if the chance is so low, why even bother?" but the fact of the matter is that most of the great drops in diablo also had absolutely miniscule chance to drop. That doesn't mean its not worth putting in. lets say that 10 million people buy the game the day/weekend it comes out. lets say everyone who is going to hit 60 is about 1/10 that. So now we've got 1 million people in endgame. If something has a 1 in a million drop chance (.000001) will happen as many times in as that many characters kill a single monster (guess: probably about every 1 second) which comes out to 3600 times an hour.
The market will be flooded. The drop chance is probably lower than that, or maybe the kill speed, but I think it illustrates the point. In fact, I think i've convinced myself that everyone will have lvl 7 runes without much wait.
I think your information on how drop rate percentages actually work is extremely flawed. Just because 1,000 people roll a 1d35, the chances of them successfully getting, say, a 35, is astronomically small. Remember, each person still only gets a small percentage of a chance for it. More people does not increase the odds of a single person getting it, it just means it turns from a 1/1 ratio to a 1/1 million ratio. That still doesn't mean you'll have a million 35's rolled. It just means you have a higher chance of someone in the POOL of a million getting it, but due to how random numbers work... you could have zero 35's, or a million 35's. Both are extremes, but very possible. These are items that you obtain BEFORE end game gear, so that you can play the way you wish. Jay has stated they make a TREMENDOUS impact, especially tier 7 runes, and quite honestly, It's better to save your "Hunting" and "Farming" for gemstones. After all, we still need hundreds of those to get max-tier. There's no reason to harm customization and being able to play your character HOW you wish and keep it viable at end game, to give even more grind. Again, let me break it down for you. Even assuming that HELL Difficulty only drops runes 5 - 7, you have ONLY a 6.7% chance (Rounded up) for it to be a level 7 rune that you want for your skill. If you're willing to downgrade to a level 6, then you have a 13% chance for the rune you want. If you're willing to go with a level 5 rune as well, that's a 20.1% chance. Assuming that, during the course of hardcore farming, at the best possible monster, that drops Runes at the best possible rate, and you're lucky enough to get, say, 10 drops an hour.. Each rune has a 20.1% chance to be the level 5 - 7 rune you NEED, in order to play your character in HELL mode the way you want to. That doesn't mean 20.1% times ten, that just means 20.1% each time. Now take a 15 sided die. Try to roll a 12. Do it ten times. Write down how many times, without cheating or bumping the die, that you got a 12. Then do it another ten times. Each set of ten is basically the same as one hour of farming, assuming absolute luck at getting 10 rune drops or one rune every six minutes. According to what has been said about rune rarity, this is highly unlikely. It's more likely that you'll be finding MAYBE one or two per hour. Four if you're lucky. Finding more runes -does- increase the chance, but not nearly as much as you think. It's still going to be a 20.1% chance, or a 13% chance, or a 6.7% chance, to be the rune you -need- to customize your character the way you wish. Now as for your "millions of players means millions of the runes you want" argument, you need to keep the following information in mind: First off, they need to be YOUR class. So you'd need them to be millions of, say, Witch Doctors. Secondly, they'd need to socket the rune in YOUR desired skill. So You'd need a MILLION witch doctors, only socketing runes in, say, Zombie Wall. Then, You'd need a Million Witch Doctors, socketing a million runes in Zombie Wall, who DIDN'T want the Golden rune in the game. But, each of those Witch Doctors only has a 20.1% chance to get a level 5 - 7 Golden rune. So a million witch doctors need to socket a million golden runes in a million zombie walls to create one million golden zombie wall runes, AND they'd need to not want to use it themselves. The result will be that most of the runes that are considered "inferior" to the most common builds, will be on the market, and the ones that are considered "Viable" will not be. If the golden rune adds mana reduction to wall of zombies, then it will probably be very common after a year or so, yes. If it, instead, makes your Zombies EXPLODE, or anything that can be considered even slightly useful, then chances are, people are not going to be selling it. Add to the fact that, with patches and nerfs and hot fixes, and skill updates, a lot of players will hoard different runes for their favorite skills, -JUST- in case their favorite skill gets a buff, nerf, or the rune's effect changes because not enough people are using it.
This means your 20.1% chance per person is more like a .00001% chance per person, that you actually end up being able to get the rune you want. The factors that would be required to make "Millions" of a level 7 rune under this system are so astronomical, that they might as well not even include level 7 runes, or they'd need to make them drop as often as gold did in d2.
Also, as stated, Zods did not drastically alter the customization of your game, nor were they required for being able to obtain gear in higher difficulties. In fact, they were the end-game strive-after, mostly for currency, and slightly for wealth or a few runewords. You can't compare the current runes to diablo 2 runes. It's better to compare them to skill points. Which Jay even states himself, in a round-about way. ("We removed skill points, blah blah, runes basically allow you to power up your skills for nightmare, and fill the previous role").
Now, I'm -not- against runes becoming "Attuned" to a skill, NOR am I against random affixes on runes (Hell, I love the idea... It's like a charm, but for your rune), What -is- a major strangle-point against the path they claimed they wanted to take with the game, though, and what -is- a mistake from a game standpoint, is making you SOCKET the rune in a skill, to determine the COLOR. It's nothing LIKE IDing an item, because if you ID a ring in diablo 2, it does NOT restrict the ring to Sorceress only, if you're a sorc. It might be a nagelring, but you can -STILL- use that nagelring on your level 24 barb. Further, that Stone of Jordan you were hoping it was doesn't allow you to use frozen orb, nor does it make your frozen orb spit out fireballs instead of ice shards. It would be far better to keep attunement (Which would mean only your class and build would ever want it, so that -would- cut down on supply, yes, it's kinda like class-based soulbinding), -HOWEVER-, there is no reason to make it impossible to determine the rune TYPE (or even the bonuses on the rune) before socketing, and it will only cause frustration and anger whenever a rune is found, instead of the elation of saying "Oh yeah, this is a level 7 indigo rune, AND IT HAS +10 RESOURCE! I definitely don't need this on my barb, But my Wizard could do some great stuff with splitting magic missiles, and the resource bonus is just icing on the cake!" You'd have people going "Crap... That rune was a level 7 golden rune with +2 life... and I socketed it on my hydra... and now it's only one giant hydra.... when I want to use my Hydra for freezing crowd control. That sucks, it would have rocked if I knew it was golden, I should have socketed it in Arcane Orb. What a waste of a rune."
There's a crowd here that thinks it's more "hardcore" that way. You can be pretty much guaranteed that the same crowd would be the first ones complaining about it, come release, once they realize how much it would actually effect them. It's kinda the same mentality as someone who wrestles alligators, who says "yeah, there's a 60% chance he could bite me arm off, but don't worry, I'm hardcore, I'll be fine.", then they get stung in the heart by a stingray somewhere in the pacific.
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Of course I want a challenge. Fighting and working hard to get the high level rune I want is what I'm after. But that can be easily achieved by simply making high level runes drop very rarely. However the system as proposed by JW is just straight up frustrating. Either runes will have to drop a LOT or the absolute and I mean absolute majority of players can forget about ever getting more than ONE skill runed the way they actually wanted across all their characters they ever make. If runes are rare and this system of randomness remains then even the most farming of all farmers will hardly ever rune up a single character the way he wants (not considering the ideal attribute bonuses). If you factor in the level of the rune, the various effects it can give and the attribute bonuses, the probability of EVER getting a single rune that actually suits you are next to zero. Even if we consider that all 7 levels of runes would drop at the same rate which they surely won't, the chance of getting a lvl 7 rune and with the right effect for the given skill and the right attribute bonus is just too small if runes remain the rare item they were intended to be. They would have to drop a lot to give players a fair chance of ever getting the one they want. Which in turn somewhat decreases the excitement in hunting for runes.
Picture these three situations: Runes drop very rarely with fixed effects and random attribute bonuses. You strive hard and finally a rune drops for you. You grab it and open your inventory. YES! After three months of trying it's finally a level 7 rune. The attribute bonus is not what you hoped for but screw it. Now you carefully consider which skill you are going to use it for and place it in there. Then you just rush headfirst into battle and enjoy your newly awesome skill.
Sitation two: Runes drop a lot but have a lot of randomness about them. Chances are when you find a rune it won't help you in the way you wanted. You play for hours and runes drop left and right. You try one, it's a good level but it doesn't give you effect that you wanted. If it were for another skill you might have used such an effect but now it's attuned to another. But at least it gives you some advantages so you keep it and use it. You find another and try again...nothing, the effect is not what you wanted and the rune is only level 2...so you salvage it since the previous one was better. And then you find another and try it with a different skill...again, not what you wanted...but you keep it because it's better than nothing. After a while you have almost all skills runed but none they way which would really help you. By the time you actually do get what you were looking for, the excitement in finding a rune is all but gone.
Situation three: Runes are a rare item and have a lot of randomness about them. After a month of playing you might find maybe one rune higher than level 4. In 80% of cases the rune doesn't do what you wanted it to do (not counting attribute point bonuses), the chance of getting level 7 rune with the right effect is not even worth mentioning. You play for a year and never ever get the rune you wanted for the given skill. Finally frustration just gets the better of you and instead of playing to earn it you just buy it on Auction House. The feeling of a hard earned reward = nonexistant.
Which system is better in your opinion? I personally prefer to have a very rare item but guaranteed reward rather than a pretty common item that most of the time does nothing for me or a very rare item that most of the time does nothing either. Take it as unique items. Is it better to drop low level uniques everywhere with a slim chance that you get a high level one or is it better to have uniques be very few and far in between but when they drop they actually have a fair chance of helping you? It's choice two for me in every imaginable situation.
In fact, the rune system can in effect be considered a soft mechanic to limit respeccing. True, you can switch skills on the fly whenever you want, but unless you have the proper runes to go along with that switch it won't be feasible later in the game. It will definitely be possible in the early game, which will allow you to experiment with different skill setups. But the late game in Hell will not.
I like the system, even the random rune effect thing if they decide to go with that. It's the exact same system that Identify served in D2, so I don't see the big deal with runes being determined after you put them into a skill. You can always just replace them with the old one you just had in there.
Maybe that means he runs a wizard with my barbarian the first time through - then I inherit his unwanted runes for my wizard...
I can see this working.
In progress: Barbarian, WD
I completely agree with you. They will definitely need to add something to the current system. As it stands now, once you find a level 7 rune, you are set, no need to find it again and can easily be moved around skills and characters (especially with the shared stash). At least with the rune system in Diablo 2, once you make a runeword, that rune is gone and you must find another one. This would have worked great if duping wasnt rampant, because of the chance to drop. With this proposed system, there will be a lot of hard choices to make with your runes, and luck when it comes to rolling your attributes. Also, I think that this bind to skill idea will definitely help with the removal of skill points and will prevent the swapping of skills on a whim. With that being said, I think Blizzard understands that the rune system needs to reworked a little with the changes to the skill system, and I think they are going in the right direction. Just my two cents
1) There will always be a Best-in-Slot item, and that's true for runes. It's unavoidable. So, yes, eventually you're going to get the best rune you can possibly get and won't have any more upgrades until...
2) With the monetizing of the AH and a consistent stream of revenue for Blizzard, they can now fiscally justify more regular updates like balance patches and, more importantly, the addition of new gear. Of course, this hinges on the RMAH being successful, but I don't think there's any doubt of that happening if other microtransaction games such as League of Legends or Dungeons and Dragons Online are any indication.
Personally, I'm the type of player that has very few characters. I like to constantly tweak my few mains to make them as strong as possible. In that light, both this (proposed) rune change and the removal of skill points give me tons of options when tweaking my characters to best suit my playstyle.
-Thomas Jefferson
A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the one spell that I didn't want an Indigo Rune for?
Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?
EDIT: It would make more sense to me if it dropped as "Crimson Rune VII" and then when I whacked it into the spell I wanted it would attune and thus prevent me from using it in my other spells (stopping me from swapping them in and out), requiring me to get another "Crimson Rune VII" to use in another spell where I was after a Crimson Rune for.
~~ edit ~~
and the rune wipe ability could then work only for the random attributes and not the rune type.
I also feel like there could be the possibility of blank runes dropping, as well as preset runes dropping without random attributes. The only issue that comes from this is the "randomness" in drops. Shamans seem like a monster that would have specific runes, but a zombie type monster would not. There's a small discussion to be had.
I believe they should keep the attributes on a random roll when set in a skill and that the rune becomes set with the skill; however, I dont think they should make the type of rune unknown. With the current amount of work it takes to get to a level 7 rune, putting it a skill and getting a worthless rune type is just a kick in the balls...So keep everything in the new system except let the rune type be know, I think that is the best solution imo
Yep, you totally did, what he said, lol, just agreeing with you
I agree with you (and Lethal_weapon's comment - second posts below yours). Not knowing the type of rune you will get is just too punishing when you don't get the one you were looking for.
On another note, IF they make the rune type unknown it would be pointless to give the ability to the Mystic to wipe it. If that was the case, you would only need gold to get the rune you want, since after you get a rank 7 rune, you can just keep wiping it and "attuning" it again until you get the one you want. If they do this "new" system, it shouldn't let you wipe it. Otherwise it will pretty much be the same as knowing the exact effect of the rune. The only difference is that it will cost gold (and maybe a ton of gold) to get the exact rune you want.
Yea, I agree with you on this as well. They definitely should not allow you to "wipe" the rune clean with the Mystic, because it then eliminates the whole point of not knowing what type of rune it is; though, it will probably cost you heavily in gold/materials. Still think it is counter-productive if they let you do this...
I don't think that's a valid complaint.
Try viewing the "socketing" process as simply using a scroll of identify on the item. Lets go with unique rings as another example, if a unique ring drops and it doesn't turn out to be an SoJ, you don't complain "goddamnit! WHY DIDN'T THEY LET ME KNOW IT WASN'T AN SOJ AHEAD OF TIME!!!1!`" You have a moment of anticipation when you pick it up and right before you identify it, then its "goddamned nagelring" or "oh nice, its a 'ravenfrost,' i needed one for this char" or hell, it might be a BK ring. YOU DON'T KNOW. and when you find out its either trash, useful, trade fodder, or amazing. The same will apply to runes. Except now they can also be cash-money.
getting a (lets say) lvl 5 rune of the type you want would be similar to getting a skiller with a not-great affix attached, lets say like mana (did gc's give mana? i haven't played d2 in a whiiiiile). It gets the job done, but there are upgrades that you will continue looking for (and playing the game for).
lvl 6 and 7 runes will of course be harder to find, but who's to say that they even give THAT much more power. Maybe a lvl 5 magic missile rune lets you hit 6 targets and a lvl 7 lets you hit 8. I think you can get by without those extra 2 hits, but they would certainly help out. it gives you something to play for while not being completely absolutely necessary (opinions will differ on that).
And I hope that runes are re-blank-able. That will be a fantastic gold sink, which will be good for the game's economy.
And you don't just need 1 lvl 7 rune, you'd need anywhere from 6-100, depending on how flexible you plan to be with your character. That makes MASSIVE demand, which makes for healthy trading.
Some people seem to be arguing that there will be no gradient between lvl 1 and 7 rune drops. You'll get a taste of what a run does real early via candy-runes, and then you'll get hell-functional runes probably by the time you get to hell difficulty, with the absolutely best runes being an item hunt similar to an anni charm or hellfire torch or a windforce or whatever.
I don't see how any of that is bad.
edit: why is this post full of /br etc..?
There is a key difference between charms and runes though. Runes define how you play your character. An example I could take out of the press conferance is the battle mage. A rune for arcane orb, a spell you generally wouldn't use as a battle mage, made it swirl protectively around you (mario kart?). My point is that you would never replace your level 6 indigo (just a guess, I don't know what color it is) for a level 7 crimson if you're trying to build a battle mage. I should know what I'm socketing, and I shouldn't have to spend tons of gold if I'm unlucky, since it's a playstyle change, not just a stat change.
This is why I think that unattuned runes should still have a color. The random affixes is what should be random. You would still use a level 7 indigo rune if it had slightly optimal stats over a level 6 indigo rune that has more optimal stats (but less of them). I would feel a lot better about min/maxing by rerolling repeatedly on something that isn't a playstyle choice. Even though I would almost advocate for a complete removal of the affix if you unlock a rune through the mystic, to give your runes more of a sense of investment when you use them. Just my thought though.
I understand the attachment to wanting the effect to remain the same. When I first heard what JW had said I was very much "i'd better be able to keep the effect!" but upon further consideration decided that was less of an issure than i thought.
While I hope that a "perfect" affixed 6 is as or even less powerful total (account for both effect and stats) than a "mediocre" 7, I don't think that the difference between a bad lvl 5 and a perfect 7 will stop you from being able to play the game.
A 2 part re-roll where you can choose to not reroll either the affix or the effect would be a perfectly fine middle ground in my mind. i would like it if there was a flat cost to re-roll, but you could choose to re-roll the effect, affix, or both for that price.
edit: cybercheese, it looks like you're quoting the html rather than the standard text, dunno why.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27822642899&sid=3000
I most definitely have, I also can spell "you". It does not change the fact that, as he said, high level runes will be rare drops, and this system is one that would make it frustrating for the player to try to get the customization he promised in skills via runes. Finding a set of armor that gives you 100% crushing blow is one thing, finding an item that is the only real way to customize the skill you use to kill hundreds of monsters, but drops only rarely, and giving you no idea whether it's the right one or not until you socket it in the skill is a completely different story. Perhaps this is your first diablo game. Imagine the following: You have six active skills. Three passives. Assuming you can also rune passives, that gives you nine skills to try to rune. Even if you can only rune the actives, that's still six skills you need to rune up with level 7 runes, in order to play the way you want to, at end game, so that you can -start- farming for equipment. You're looking at five different rune types. But, since you don't know what rune type you'll have until you socket it, it will go as follows: You have a 20% chance, when you socket the rune, that it's the rune you want for your skill. That's each time. That means there is an 80% chance it's not the rune you want. You could get the rune you want the first time, or you could not. Either way, the rune is used, and you either move on to the next skill, or continue searching for this skill. However, these are rare items, and they attune when socketed, therefore making them useless for another item. So you've experimented, you know you want a golden rune in skill one, an obsidian rune in skill 2, etc. That's great, however, your rune drops and it says "A rune.", you socket it in skill one, "An obsidian rune". Too bad for your luck, huh? You should have socketed it in skill two. But you can't now. Farm again.
Hours later, you may have over twenty runes of every type, except golden, that are attuned to skill one. This is different from farming for a pair of war travelers in one major way: War travelers is an item you use to enhance your magic find. Runes are used to customize your skills, and are the only real way to customize your skills. Anyone can swap out skills, anyone can use magic missile, but runes are the only way to make your magic missile split into two. Runes, effectively, are skill unlockers. Bashiok has stated in previous comments that you can have thousands and thousands of skill combinations. That's with runes. Without runes, you now have base skills. Sure, you can use lower-quality runes to try to fill those slots, but you could still be farming for hours just for lower-quality runes, and that's all just being done so that you can play the game the way you want to, with the skills you want to. That's all being done -just- so you can get to the point where you can farm. Meanwhile, if they dropped the rune with the rune TYPE visible to you from the start, you'd merely have to farm until you find the rune type you wish, then put it in the proper skill, and move on. If they're going to keep runes "Grey", then they need to make them -not- attune when socketed, or they need to let runes be ID'd to show the "color" before socketing. The proposed system, instead, only leads to one question: Why even bother including level 7 runes under that system? Only 5% of the gaming population will even bother with them, and they only serve to delay the release date, for a system not many people will use (same reasoning for why they scrapped a few other systems). As I said, it's unlikely to ship with Jay's proposed system, as it's detrimental to what the team has stated they wish for diablo 3.
I think there is some confusion over need vs want in your argument.
Before continuing, I will say that maybe we WILL need lvl 7 runes to farm endgame stuff. I think that unlikely, and think that lower levels of the same runes will be good enough to get by. They may not be. We won't be able to say until the game is out and we're 60.
Additionally, I think that there will be a way outside of actually putting the rune in the skill to pick the skill for the rune if they go with JW's idea, simply because requiring someone to pay to unsocket a rune just to ID a new rune seems excessive. I wouldn't be surpirsed if runes could be "set" by the mystic (either you get to choose its effect like you'd like, or she could reveal what effect the rune is going to be).
The 7-level gradient is actually fantastic for allowing customizability and viability without making optimum builds common. Think of a lvl 7 rune as a zod. How many people ACTUALLY saw one drop? In my view, and this is certainly contestable, lvl 7 runes are not meant to be acquired by everyone. Now, you may argue "if the chance is so low, why even bother?" but the fact of the matter is that most of the great drops in diablo also had absolutely miniscule chance to drop. That doesn't mean its not worth putting in. lets say that 10 million people buy the game the day/weekend it comes out. lets say everyone who is going to hit 60 is about 1/10 that. So now we've got 1 million people in endgame. If something has a 1 in a million drop chance (.000001) will happen as many times in as that many characters kill a single monster (guess: probably about every 1 second) which comes out to 3600 times an hour.
The market will be flooded. The drop chance is probably lower than that, or maybe the kill speed, but I think it illustrates the point. In fact, I think i've convinced myself that everyone will have lvl 7 runes without much wait.
This means your 20.1% chance per person is more like a .00001% chance per person, that you actually end up being able to get the rune you want. The factors that would be required to make "Millions" of a level 7 rune under this system are so astronomical, that they might as well not even include level 7 runes, or they'd need to make them drop as often as gold did in d2.
Also, as stated, Zods did not drastically alter the customization of your game, nor were they required for being able to obtain gear in higher difficulties. In fact, they were the end-game strive-after, mostly for currency, and slightly for wealth or a few runewords. You can't compare the current runes to diablo 2 runes. It's better to compare them to skill points. Which Jay even states himself, in a round-about way. ("We removed skill points, blah blah, runes basically allow you to power up your skills for nightmare, and fill the previous role").
Now, I'm -not- against runes becoming "Attuned" to a skill, NOR am I against random affixes on runes (Hell, I love the idea... It's like a charm, but for your rune), What -is- a major strangle-point against the path they claimed they wanted to take with the game, though, and what -is- a mistake from a game standpoint, is making you SOCKET the rune in a skill, to determine the COLOR. It's nothing LIKE IDing an item, because if you ID a ring in diablo 2, it does NOT restrict the ring to Sorceress only, if you're a sorc. It might be a nagelring, but you can -STILL- use that nagelring on your level 24 barb. Further, that Stone of Jordan you were hoping it was doesn't allow you to use frozen orb, nor does it make your frozen orb spit out fireballs instead of ice shards. It would be far better to keep attunement (Which would mean only your class and build would ever want it, so that -would- cut down on supply, yes, it's kinda like class-based soulbinding), -HOWEVER-, there is no reason to make it impossible to determine the rune TYPE (or even the bonuses on the rune) before socketing, and it will only cause frustration and anger whenever a rune is found, instead of the elation of saying "Oh yeah, this is a level 7 indigo rune, AND IT HAS +10 RESOURCE! I definitely don't need this on my barb, But my Wizard could do some great stuff with splitting magic missiles, and the resource bonus is just icing on the cake!" You'd have people going "Crap... That rune was a level 7 golden rune with +2 life... and I socketed it on my hydra... and now it's only one giant hydra.... when I want to use my Hydra for freezing crowd control. That sucks, it would have rocked if I knew it was golden, I should have socketed it in Arcane Orb. What a waste of a rune."
There's a crowd here that thinks it's more "hardcore" that way. You can be pretty much guaranteed that the same crowd would be the first ones complaining about it, come release, once they realize how much it would actually effect them. It's kinda the same mentality as someone who wrestles alligators, who says "yeah, there's a 60% chance he could bite me arm off, but don't worry, I'm hardcore, I'll be fine.", then they get stung in the heart by a stingray somewhere in the pacific.