Is it confirmed by Blizzard that all classes will have access to all the same equipment at the same level?
I remember reading at one point that the reason equip requirements is based on level is because Attributes are auto-distributed. I assumed this meant that, because each class will have attributes distributed in different ways, each class would also have different level requirements for equipment.
Let's say that a Heavy Ax requires, in theory, 75 Attack. Supposedly, the Barbarian would achieve that level of Attack around... let's say level 30. But a Witch Doctor wouldn't have that much attack until level 35. Thus the level requirements for Barbarian and Witch Doctor would be 30 and 35, respectively.
Do you figure Blizzard would do something like that, rather than give all classes access to the same equip at the same time? Or is that way more complicated than necessary?
Really don't like this change, it takes all the flavor out of the different classes, you won't even have to think differently if you change classes. Why are they doing this? Most people are used to having to think about different attributes to improve a different class.
Won't feel like Diablo without the similar attribute names.
Used to think about different attributes? I sure didn't when I played D2. It was Strength for gear, Dexterity for gear or max block, and the rest goes to Vitality. That was the path of 98% of all builds.
Well the change is from the previous Diablo 3 Attribute set up that actually separated magic and physical damage in the character attributes. I wasn't really speaking in contrast to D2.
To deal with the problems they were having with physical skills seeming like magic all they needed to do was add a magic component to them, even if insignificant to have it make more sense. They are removing so much flavor from the game by combining physical and magic damage in attributes, it also means that melee on a caster will either be comparable to a melee class or completely nerfed to an unusable level if one wishes to consider the melee caster build or magic barbarian. Completely confining characters to a preselected orientation of damage type. It also means that a hybrid of magic and melee will benefit far to much, and thus be confined by programming as opposed to base predictable escalation that the the previous attribute stats implied.
Well even if a wizard has the same attack as a barbarian, it wouldn't matter because the wizard wouldn't have any traits/skills that apply to melee. Not to mention caster weapons will probably have terrible dps compared to melee weapons.
I agree, the system in D2 was totally broken, but they should fix it. For example, strength and dexterity should have a much bigger impact on your damage, as should energy (for spellcasters). for example, i'm currently playing a Bowazon in Eastern Sun (D2 mod), and i've invested most of my points into dex because that improves my damage with a bow. that's the way it should be in D3, not some half-hearted attempt at "simplifying" it.
D2 did have a Str/Dex + to wep damage system. Most mods (such as ES and MXL) just decided to show how much more damage you were getting out of your str/dex. The new thing in those mods was the Energy increasing spell damage(energy factor).
As far as I know the amounts are the same for the mods and D2. (Did you not notice when you put 5 points into str that your damage increased(not by much since it's a very small percentage)?
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It's all been said. The pun, the not so funny joke, the phrase, something about oneself, the not so random picture.
Yes, in 'regular' D2 those attributes added to your damage, but it was completely negligible. So negligible, in fact, that nobody ever used it. But, since the attributes will be auto-assigned (i don't think they changed that, did they?), this is almost moot.
Charms (in the talisman thing) is supposed to be where you customize your stats the most. So they better damn well be fair and worth it.
I completly agree that this seriously hurt the flavor and would be impossible to implement in a more RP oriented game. This is a true downside, i agree. However, let the "Wave of Light" skill of the monk based on strength is not favor-friendly, certainly, and give the monk the need to upgrade his spellcaster side would just tear the class apart.
And this change don't hurt the depth of the game. Unless if you think that choose Spell Damage for Wizard, Strength for the Barbarian and Dexterity for the Demon Hunter have ANY level of depth and add ANYTHING to the gameplay. Those are just names, they all play the same. Any difference is a mere illusion.
Of course, this is not true if each stats has many substats. Then a barbarian who gets damage from STR blocks more damage, the wizard who gets damage from willpower have more resources and the dh who gets damage from dex have more critical. Theorically their damage type indirectly adds different elements to their gameplay. But this is good design?
The barbarian have better blocks compered to a bunch of classes that don't even use shields !
The DH have more criticals, so to make the DH's DPS = Other Classes DPS they would have to decrease it's non critical damage. In the end all DH's would play like a lightning sorceress, while in the current system EACH clas can choose between a critical and or stable damage build.
And why the hell the wizard should spam more spells then the other classes anyway ? Aren't all classes suppose to be equally fun and functional ? Or the wizard's skills would cost so much resources that he/she needs tons of willpower to do so ? In this case a willpowerless wizard not only have poor damage but can't spam spells. Or just make his energy independ of any stats. Great.
Can't you guys see the problem ? Adding multiple effects to each stat creats many forms of imbalaces. And 3 separate stats that purely add damage is just ridicolous. This change came to allows better diversification inside each class. In the old system each class choosed 2 stats, the offensive one and vitality. With this new system each class can choose between one of the two offensive stats, one of the two defenisve ones and the resources. There are much more stats builds possible now.
Actually, this is good news. Now I know that the Demon Hunter can wield swords:
It is not our intent that classes always use their class specific items, specifically in the weapon department. But, class specific items will be predictable sources for stats good for your class, as we’ll restrict them to only carry affixes your class could want.
And class specific items will actually give our character's stats a good bonus as opposed to them just being special items that they use.
So, cool beans, bro.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Actually I've changed my mind about this change, it will work alot better for simliar class diversity and general replyability. However it still makes the different classes more simliar, something blizzard usually avoids.
When you start to think about 3 of the attributes previously just acting mainly as three different attack attributes and the pigeon holing of secondary effects common to simliar classes this new method looks better has a greater potiental.
Graphically the simlarity of names might be subverted if the graphics of the stats, or those adjacent, appeared visually different from class to class. (Just as an example say a silhouette of a archer firing behind the attack attribute of the demon hunter, and a mage casting for the wizard etc. Flavour could be regained in that sense)
I am also hoping for more item diversity now that chance to hit, block, dodge is no longer apart of character attributes.
Eh. Can't say I'm a fan. The management of STR/DEX/ENG and weapons is what made those classes different between each other. This effectively kills a couple hundred hybrid/weirdo builds. I haven't really liked the DII management of things, tho, especially without armor penalties and the like. They're both pretty faulty in my view, one is too homogenizing the other is too all-or-nothing.
Eh. Can't say I'm a fan. The management of STR/DEX/ENG and weapons is what made those classes different between each other. This effectively kills a couple hundred hybrid/weirdo builds. I haven't really liked the DII management of things, tho, especially without armor penalties and the like. They're both pretty faulty in my view, one is too homogenizing the other is too all-or-nothing.
So basically the builds are still being obliterated by the simple fact of the dev team wanted to sum up str/dex/eng into simple categories. The builds are simplified, and the hybrid/weirdo builds you're stating that vanishes along with, are they consider pvp effective?
Are they like an ice/electric sorc which are meant to threaten two genre of elemental weakenesses? As an outsider, I cannot comprehend the meaning of those stats you've experiences with, but I'm curious of what kind of damage is being dealt to builds organizations, and what hybrid/weirdo builds are suppose to be consider with.
What I don't understand is how you're supposed to create a build if the stats are auto-leveled?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding or merely ignorant of what this auto lvling feature is?
Anyways I was never into D2 in a RPG way, it was merely an obsessive drive for better gear that kept me going. I don't know how anyone could possibly play the game otherwise past their first character and difficulty level. Once you hit nightmare on your first time you realise that your build was probably shit and you can't continue. All immersion is gone.
So them making the stats work this way is a great and refreshing way of make the stats important to the game. Good on em.
Also I can see many builds based around precision. So many builds. But the question is at what point do they cap your crit chance? Or do they just give you impossible diminishing returns so that you can never realistically achieve a certain crit percentage. The thing about the latter is that people will just mathematically work out the point that investing more points into crit chance becomes worthless and stop. And there's nothing wrong with the former. Or even combining the two.
And then there could be builds focused on getting the highest crit chance while trying to sacrifice as little damage as possible. Ahhhh dear I like precision. Attack speed and crit chance build with chance on crit to stun (pvp)? oh yes.
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"A lot of fellows nowadays have a B.A., M.D., or Ph.D. Unfortunately, they don't have a J.O.B."
Havn't looked anything up on d3 since blizzcon so I got this and the gem bomb dropped on me tonight. Between skill runes and gems I think you'll start to see a lot of choices open up.
For instance I think I just came to a class decision on launch. Sword/Board barb stack every item I find that has defense on it and socket it with emeralds(except weapon in our current iteration of the game)
However Defense stat does have an issue with it. If it is a static number that is fine, if it is a % then it will obviously have to suffer from level scaling which makes it completely boring as a stat before hitting level cap. But on further thought that happens with every stat except attack. I would like to see this changed for the better. It really is not fun seeing "you've reached level 13, health and all your stats went up but your stats are now worth less"
essentially you are now weaker than you were at level 12, but congratulations anyway. I'm hoping this is countered by appropriate level mobs dropping higher than your level gear. so you always have that "Next level I get to equip some sweet loot" feeling.
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In Sanctuary mage wear HEAVY ARMOR like WARRIORS.
Forget about some of D&D conventions for god sake.
So yeah. Wizards may achieve even higher armor then the barbarian. Any problem ?
I remember reading at one point that the reason equip requirements is based on level is because Attributes are auto-distributed. I assumed this meant that, because each class will have attributes distributed in different ways, each class would also have different level requirements for equipment.
Let's say that a Heavy Ax requires, in theory, 75 Attack. Supposedly, the Barbarian would achieve that level of Attack around... let's say level 30. But a Witch Doctor wouldn't have that much attack until level 35. Thus the level requirements for Barbarian and Witch Doctor would be 30 and 35, respectively.
Do you figure Blizzard would do something like that, rather than give all classes access to the same equip at the same time? Or is that way more complicated than necessary?
Won't feel like Diablo without the similar attribute names.
Well the change is from the previous Diablo 3 Attribute set up that actually separated magic and physical damage in the character attributes. I wasn't really speaking in contrast to D2.
To deal with the problems they were having with physical skills seeming like magic all they needed to do was add a magic component to them, even if insignificant to have it make more sense. They are removing so much flavor from the game by combining physical and magic damage in attributes, it also means that melee on a caster will either be comparable to a melee class or completely nerfed to an unusable level if one wishes to consider the melee caster build or magic barbarian. Completely confining characters to a preselected orientation of damage type. It also means that a hybrid of magic and melee will benefit far to much, and thus be confined by programming as opposed to base predictable escalation that the the previous attribute stats implied.
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D2 did have a Str/Dex + to wep damage system. Most mods (such as ES and MXL) just decided to show how much more damage you were getting out of your str/dex. The new thing in those mods was the Energy increasing spell damage(energy factor).
As far as I know the amounts are the same for the mods and D2. (Did you not notice when you put 5 points into str that your damage increased(not by much since it's a very small percentage)?
Charms (in the talisman thing) is supposed to be where you customize your stats the most. So they better damn well be fair and worth it.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
And this change don't hurt the depth of the game. Unless if you think that choose Spell Damage for Wizard, Strength for the Barbarian and Dexterity for the Demon Hunter have ANY level of depth and add ANYTHING to the gameplay. Those are just names, they all play the same. Any difference is a mere illusion.
Of course, this is not true if each stats has many substats. Then a barbarian who gets damage from STR blocks more damage, the wizard who gets damage from willpower have more resources and the dh who gets damage from dex have more critical. Theorically their damage type indirectly adds different elements to their gameplay. But this is good design?
The barbarian have better blocks compered to a bunch of classes that don't even use shields !
The DH have more criticals, so to make the DH's DPS = Other Classes DPS they would have to decrease it's non critical damage. In the end all DH's would play like a lightning sorceress, while in the current system EACH clas can choose between a critical and or stable damage build.
And why the hell the wizard should spam more spells then the other classes anyway ? Aren't all classes suppose to be equally fun and functional ? Or the wizard's skills would cost so much resources that he/she needs tons of willpower to do so ? In this case a willpowerless wizard not only have poor damage but can't spam spells. Or just make his energy independ of any stats. Great.
Can't you guys see the problem ? Adding multiple effects to each stat creats many forms of imbalaces. And 3 separate stats that purely add damage is just ridicolous. This change came to allows better diversification inside each class. In the old system each class choosed 2 stats, the offensive one and vitality. With this new system each class can choose between one of the two offensive stats, one of the two defenisve ones and the resources. There are much more stats builds possible now.
And class specific items will actually give our character's stats a good bonus as opposed to them just being special items that they use.
So, cool beans, bro.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
When you start to think about 3 of the attributes previously just acting mainly as three different attack attributes and the pigeon holing of secondary effects common to simliar classes this new method looks better has a greater potiental.
Graphically the simlarity of names might be subverted if the graphics of the stats, or those adjacent, appeared visually different from class to class. (Just as an example say a silhouette of a archer firing behind the attack attribute of the demon hunter, and a mage casting for the wizard etc. Flavour could be regained in that sense)
I am also hoping for more item diversity now that chance to hit, block, dodge is no longer apart of character attributes.
So basically the builds are still being obliterated by the simple fact of the dev team wanted to sum up str/dex/eng into simple categories. The builds are simplified, and the hybrid/weirdo builds you're stating that vanishes along with, are they consider pvp effective?
Are they like an ice/electric sorc which are meant to threaten two genre of elemental weakenesses? As an outsider, I cannot comprehend the meaning of those stats you've experiences with, but I'm curious of what kind of damage is being dealt to builds organizations, and what hybrid/weirdo builds are suppose to be consider with.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding or merely ignorant of what this auto lvling feature is?
Anyways I was never into D2 in a RPG way, it was merely an obsessive drive for better gear that kept me going. I don't know how anyone could possibly play the game otherwise past their first character and difficulty level. Once you hit nightmare on your first time you realise that your build was probably shit and you can't continue. All immersion is gone.
So them making the stats work this way is a great and refreshing way of make the stats important to the game. Good on em.
Also I can see many builds based around precision. So many builds. But the question is at what point do they cap your crit chance? Or do they just give you impossible diminishing returns so that you can never realistically achieve a certain crit percentage. The thing about the latter is that people will just mathematically work out the point that investing more points into crit chance becomes worthless and stop. And there's nothing wrong with the former. Or even combining the two.
And then there could be builds focused on getting the highest crit chance while trying to sacrifice as little damage as possible. Ahhhh dear I like precision. Attack speed and crit chance build with chance on crit to stun (pvp)? oh yes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
For instance I think I just came to a class decision on launch. Sword/Board barb stack every item I find that has defense on it and socket it with emeralds(except weapon in our current iteration of the game)
However Defense stat does have an issue with it. If it is a static number that is fine, if it is a % then it will obviously have to suffer from level scaling which makes it completely boring as a stat before hitting level cap. But on further thought that happens with every stat except attack. I would like to see this changed for the better. It really is not fun seeing "you've reached level 13, health and all your stats went up but your stats are now worth less"
essentially you are now weaker than you were at level 12, but congratulations anyway. I'm hoping this is countered by appropriate level mobs dropping higher than your level gear. so you always have that "Next level I get to equip some sweet loot" feeling.