An animation is something I thought of too, my only concern with it is that it might be too obnoxious/distracting. Otherwise, I would totally be down for it. For some skills, like Inferno, I think it would be fine, but things like projectiles and other skills that produce a lot of movement in one way or another I think would be annoying.
If we are to have animations, it's going to be static on the page. A meteor animation wouldn't fall down over the page, it would just play it's animation within the 50x100 image (or whatever it takes up). If we manage to get animations.
Don't the equations in the files have expressions for synergy bonuses in them though? And if not, I'm sure we could do it manually. I mean it's not too difficult...if something has a 7% damage synergy bonus, for example, you just take the base damage and multiply it by 1.07. Cake.
How are gifs made and who can make them for each skill?
The animations should be viewable through the "Dr Tester" program Kris was talking about earlier.
Well that's the problem. That will work for simple skills like ice bolt and fire bolt. But more complex skills are multiple instances that are pieces together (charged bolt, tornado, frozen orb), and some I have no idea how they would be converted to animations: chain lightning, strafe, volcano etc. So screenshots will have to be used in a lot of cases I suspect.
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Well, obviously the Meteor isn't going to be falling across the entire screen, but how would it be done then? Would it just be an animation of the burning patch after it hits? Wouldn't it be a better representation of the skill if we had a screenshot that had a burning patch on the ground with a second meteor falling? Like I said, animations have the potential to be cool, but I think that we'll be better able to accurately represent what the skill actually does in a screenshot than with an animation. Plus, it's more fun and creative.
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Instead of adding the 1 point synergy, I instead added a table for how it develops with maximum synergies (in this case, only 20 in icebolt). We can also easily add an extra row between 30-45, and probably should, since many builds can and aim to get their skills up there.
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1.) The top part: For the most part I think it looks really good, but I have a few suggestions. First, I think the dividing lines between the spell name/description and the prerequisites should be removed. They're not really dividing anything that should be divided (i.e. "Prerequisites" from the prerequisites) and they won't line up neatly with the dividers on the bottom row. Right now, the divider between "Cold Spells" and the Required Level is just slightly misaligned with the divider above it, and it looks weird. Other skill trees that are longer will just make it look like a puzzle or something. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think we should have the damage type in the top area. I think that should just be removed, and instead the table itself should say "[Type] Damage". Otherwise, I likes it.
2.) The skill progression tables look pretty good, but should we maybe look at doing alternating colors to improve readability? Also, a fairly minor thing, but maybe instead of "with maximum synergies" we should have "with all synergies maximized", since that's a little bit clearer.
3.) The synergies box: instead of having "recieves from" and "provides for" in their own columns, I think we should have them in their own rows, with the synergies listed horizontally (essentially like the prereqs at the top), which would look more in line with the rest of the design.
4.) Everything below the table I think looks very nice; I like how that turned out.
1.) The top part: For the most part I think it looks really good, but I have a few suggestions. First, I think the dividing lines between the spell name/description and the prerequisites should be removed. They're not really dividing anything that should be divided (i.e. "Prerequisites" from the prerequisites) and they won't line up neatly with the dividers on the bottom row. Right now, the divider between "Cold Spells" and the Required Level is just slightly misaligned with the divider above it, and it looks weird. Other skill trees that are longer will just make it look like a puzzle or something. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think we should have the damage type in the top area. I think that should just be removed, and instead the table itself should say "[Type] Damage". Otherwise, I likes it.
Divider between name and description fits I think. The name is after all the "header", even though it's no longer on a row of it's own.
Moved damage type, worked better below, removed prereq divider.
2.) The skill progression tables look pretty good, but should we maybe look at doing alternating colors to improve readability? Also, a fairly minor thing, but maybe instead of "with maximum synergies" we should have "with all synergies maximized", since that's a little bit clearer.
It seems fine to me. If we were dealing with dozens of rows maybe, but it's rarely going to go past four. I think it works.
3.) The synergies box: instead of having "recieves from" and "provides for" in their own columns, I think we should have them in their own rows, with the synergies listed horizontally (essentially like the prereqs at the top), which would look more in line with the rest of the design.
Put both up there. It looks disorganized to me, I prefer the top-down list even though it isn't the same as the rest of the table. Also added some black background, in face it was that assymetry that caused it.
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Put both up there. It looks disorganized to me, I prefer the top-down list even though it isn't the same as the rest of the table. Also added some black background, in face it was that assymetry that caused it.
Hmm...I have to agree that the horizontal design looks a little messy, I just don't like the big blank space with the top-down list. I tried moving the tree image and the "skill" image up to fill some of it, and neither looks any good. I suppose I can live with the blank space to the right of it. :thumbsup: However, I definitely think it looks better without the black background in that blank space.
What else could we use the space for then? I thought about putting up some damage calculations, but it's not that simple. That would work for skills that depend on weapon damage, but skill like Frozen Orb have a much different method of progression, it's basically static inscreases, but with changes at four different levels (9, 17, 23, 29) so it doesn't make much sense.
It is however, once again, a problem for high resolutions. If the page is scaled down, I think it looks very good, and fitting something else there will be problematic.
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The only other thing I've thought of is another partial line of skill progression, to get it up to 35-40 or so, and then the synergies to the right of that, since it wouldn't fill up the entire screen in that situation, but I don't know how well that would work with different resolutions.
Also, one other thing I was thinking of: do we really need the level requirements of the prereq spells listed? It seems fairly unnecessary to me...
All synergies maxed. For FO, that's just icebolt. This of course means 20 hard points in all of them, since synergy bonuses are not conferred from soft points. Is that unclear you think?
EDIT: Removed the level req of prereqs, it was a little redundant I agree.
As for putting down 5 extra skill levels, that would look really weird. Better to just leave the blank space and add an extra 15 levels if that's the case.
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Is there anything you all thinks needs to be changed regarding the template now then?
If not, then I know Kickin has expressed his distaste for the skill-tree designs, with colors all over the image. I can agree, but I think the colors do serve a purpose. Perhaps we can go wit ha design similar to what is used currently on the fire skills
The meteor highlight is much clearer than the glacial spike one.
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Those are the images that all the current skill pages use; browse through them and you'll see 'em.
What purpose do you think the colors serve? I know they differ between different "types" (fire, cold, poison/bone, etc.) but that info is already going to be present higher than these images on the page (in the tables) with the new design. What I'd like to see is to just make the skill in question white instead of grey. This is how it appears in game (when a skill becomes available) and I think it would be more than sufficient to set it apart from the other skills, without looking so gaudy.
I've hatched an idea for the blank space to the right of the synergy box. What do you think about another box titled something along the lines of "Builds Utilizing [skill]" and then linking to any/all builds that use that particular skill, either as a primary attack or an important synergy?
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
True enough. I suppose we can do that.
I need to figure that out. It's the same thing for hit points in nightmare and hell, they're also controlled by some calculation somewhere.
Well that's the problem. That will work for simple skills like ice bolt and fire bolt. But more complex skills are multiple instances that are pieces together (charged bolt, tornado, frozen orb), and some I have no idea how they would be converted to animations: chain lightning, strafe, volcano etc. So screenshots will have to be used in a lot of cases I suspect.
First draft of a skill template is up.
Instead of adding the 1 point synergy, I instead added a table for how it develops with maximum synergies (in this case, only 20 in icebolt). We can also easily add an extra row between 30-45, and probably should, since many builds can and aim to get their skills up there.
Thoughts?
1.) The top part: For the most part I think it looks really good, but I have a few suggestions. First, I think the dividing lines between the spell name/description and the prerequisites should be removed. They're not really dividing anything that should be divided (i.e. "Prerequisites" from the prerequisites) and they won't line up neatly with the dividers on the bottom row. Right now, the divider between "Cold Spells" and the Required Level is just slightly misaligned with the divider above it, and it looks weird. Other skill trees that are longer will just make it look like a puzzle or something. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I don't think we should have the damage type in the top area. I think that should just be removed, and instead the table itself should say "[Type] Damage". Otherwise, I likes it.
2.) The skill progression tables look pretty good, but should we maybe look at doing alternating colors to improve readability? Also, a fairly minor thing, but maybe instead of "with maximum synergies" we should have "with all synergies maximized", since that's a little bit clearer.
3.) The synergies box: instead of having "recieves from" and "provides for" in their own columns, I think we should have them in their own rows, with the synergies listed horizontally (essentially like the prereqs at the top), which would look more in line with the rest of the design.
4.) Everything below the table I think looks very nice; I like how that turned out.
Moved damage type, worked better below, removed prereq divider.
It seems fine to me. If we were dealing with dozens of rows maybe, but it's rarely going to go past four. I think it works.
Reworded synergy part.
Put both up there. It looks disorganized to me, I prefer the top-down list even though it isn't the same as the rest of the table. Also added some black background, in face it was that assymetry that caused it.
That's fine, it was definitely the prereq divider that was causing the problem I had, looks much better now.
Hmm...I have to agree that the horizontal design looks a little messy, I just don't like the big blank space with the top-down list. I tried moving the tree image and the "skill" image up to fill some of it, and neither looks any good. I suppose I can live with the blank space to the right of it. :thumbsup: However, I definitely think it looks better without the black background in that blank space.
It is however, once again, a problem for high resolutions. If the page is scaled down, I think it looks very good, and fitting something else there will be problematic.
Removed the black though, I agree.
The only other thing I've thought of is another partial line of skill progression, to get it up to 35-40 or so, and then the synergies to the right of that, since it wouldn't fill up the entire screen in that situation, but I don't know how well that would work with different resolutions.
Also, one other thing I was thinking of: do we really need the level requirements of the prereq spells listed? It seems fairly unnecessary to me...
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
EDIT: Removed the level req of prereqs, it was a little redundant I agree.
As for putting down 5 extra skill levels, that would look really weird. Better to just leave the blank space and add an extra 15 levels if that's the case.
If not, then I know Kickin has expressed his distaste for the skill-tree designs, with colors all over the image. I can agree, but I think the colors do serve a purpose. Perhaps we can go wit ha design similar to what is used currently on the fire skills
The meteor highlight is much clearer than the glacial spike one.
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
What purpose do you think the colors serve? I know they differ between different "types" (fire, cold, poison/bone, etc.) but that info is already going to be present higher than these images on the page (in the tables) with the new design. What I'd like to see is to just make the skill in question white instead of grey. This is how it appears in game (when a skill becomes available) and I think it would be more than sufficient to set it apart from the other skills, without looking so gaudy.
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster