Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry you feel insulted. I'm afraid my comment in question was taken out of context. It was meant to shed light on what some of the potentially hidden factors are. One tends to omit these factors when claiming any carry is "doing nothing". Maybe not everyone agrees they are valid.
The fact is it's difficult to find available carriers sometimes. Fully-geared T6 efficient players still have many things to do in order to achieve various individual objectives, including chasing the perfect gear affixes, grinding for paragon levels, climbing DP ladders, looking for upgrades (e.g., trifecta RoRG, perfect TnT), stocking up rift/uber keys etc. As a result, most carriers are not immediately available to attend a request to carry, especially when TUC is relatively inactive. As the community continue to grow, eventually TUC will need more T6 efficient ubers slayers.
You are worried about fairness. Why don't you want to factor in the additional time all carriers have spent to be capable of carrying 2 or 1 customer(s) in T6? Why not factor in stopping a run to be on call for TUC? It's not "doing nothing". I doubt T6 uber bosses would just self-implode being exposed to carriers. Why not view the TUC from the carrier's perspective?
Seriously? One of few things to do for a fully geared T6-capable player is to farm organs to prepare for patch 2.1, and you say that it is a grace that they stop whatever they are doing in order for them to get FREE organs? You've gotta be kidding me.
no different that RIF. There are plenty of players who do not play often who cant run Ubers T6 Solo and want help. There cost is opening the rifts, big deal they were going to do it anyway. The service is the players carrying kill the Ubers, both parties have a equal chance at a organ.
No, actually RIF requires both parties to put some effort into it. The runner lets you leech the rift guardian and get blood shards and you open him his next rift. You're right, both parties have an equal chance at an organ, but one party is putting much more effort into it.
Let me put it this way. Goal of me is to get blood shards and I have key fragments easily obtained hundreds of them in a very small amount of time. Someone runs through a rift and invites me as grace into his game, lets me leech the rift guardian and get blood shards. The service here is offered by the runner, not the opener. Because the runner would have killed the rift guardian anyway, he's not losing anything by inviting others. In fact, he doesn't have to spend key fragments to open the next rift.
Whereas TUC abuses naive players who just see "T6" and jump in, not knowing that they could get statistically better results by farming with a group in T4 or lower. They get FREE organs without doing anything. Because: If I want organs, I have to tediously farm keys, craft machines and kill the ubers. So if I want organs I have to kill ubers anyway, so where is the service when I just jump in a game of another player, kill the ubers and get organs?
Thank you for your suggestion, and I understand where you are coming from.
A customer is a user of the service, free or not. Any player is welcome to stay in TUC but may not become a customer or user. Let's be clear, no one is twisting your arms into using TUC as others pointed out.
The scenarios are exactly the same as you used in one of your posts. If you'd call that manipulative, be my guest. Actually when we factor in the time spent on farming 20 sets of keys as opposed to 80, the result is exactly the same, i.e., Scenario A (3 carry 1 in T6) takes about 20% less total kw+ubers time per organ than Scenario B (pickup team of 4 in T4) for a single player with 20 infernal machines. A new scenario where 2 carry 2 in T6 would be even more efficient.
You are worried about fairness. Why don't you want to factor in the additional time all carriers have spent to be capable of carrying 2 or 1 customer(s) in T6? Why not factor in stopping a run to be on call for TUC? It's not "doing nothing". I doubt T6 uber bosses would just self-implode being exposed to carriers. Why not view the TUC from the carrier's perspective? Unity members farm keys in T6 often as well and they can manage. We could have chosen to allow the T6 carries remain on an ad-hoc basis and sometimes not free. Instead, TUC is available to any players in need and completely optional.
You misunderstood my example and put words in my mouth. In the first quote below, I stated that random pickup group for T4 ubers would probably get 4 T4 players, which is the best such a team can get. Because T5 or T6 players would choose T5 or T6 instead to take advantage of higher drop rates, while sometimes a T3 (or even T2 T1) player would opt to join a T4 team for higher drop rates.
No one belongs to the selected few. There is no room for any sort of elitism, trolling or flaming in Unity Clans, Unity League or TUC. We want to build friendly, supportive and helpful communities. If there is only one thing I desire to make clear and ensure, this is it.
Best,
solar
"In reality, a T5 or T6 player would never choose to use his/her portal with a T4 team; A T4 ubers pickup team would usually get T4 players at best, and sometimes T1-T3 players. This fact significantly reduces the likelihood of a successful or fast uber bosses clear."
you keep on using term "customer" but when the service is free why don'y you simply call them players?
as for your scenario table... which is VERY manipulative as I'm sure you have spent several hundred hours if not thousands in game and you deliberately ommited the part where you'd actually had to also include time in farming 20 keys and 80 keys, not to mention IF your customer wanted to open 80 portals then the time consumed would be the same.
You simply don't include the main factor > key farming. Lets assume the time consumed per organ for both scenarios, those 60 sets of keys extra that come from party contribution, for a single player would take 10-15 hours of farming. So not only do you get more organs in scenario B but also it takes you considerably less time to obtain them when you look at the big picture.
I know you probably got used to people opening portals for you in exchange for your carry services so let me just reming you that these keys don't drop from the sky, you actually need to put a lot of time to farm them which you seem to be forgetting.
As for what you said above - T4 uber party is most likely T1-T3 ready... oh please, with todays legendary drop rate, kadala drop rate and basically everything turning casual it's another manipulation on your side... ok I know not everyone can do T6, T5 is half of the highest dfficulty and a lot more people can do it... but saying T4 is also for "selected few" ? it's a joke. If I chose T3 as my example in previous post you'd say something like that just to prove your point.
If you want my suggestion for improving TUC here it is - contribute at least 50% of what the weaker player is providing so for every 10 portals - open 5. That is a lot more fair than just doing nothing.
actually the math takes the time factor into consideration... 20 portals vs 80 portals with a party > now tell me which option takes you less time to gather keys for? option A where you gather only 20 sets of keys in a "carry service" where only you open portals or option B where you only farm 20 sets of keys but in a party go for 80 uber kills. Both option B is less time consuming and gives you a chance for a lot more organ drops.
More organ drops > more amulets > bigger chance for a better roll > no more boring key farming
Hi erav2000, Summary: TUC is a free alternative to advertised paid carry services,
providing efficient and well-organized carries any time;
entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use;
we strive to improve service and customer satisfaction with user feedback;
A T4 player would probably gain more organs per unit time using TUC.
I know you've been extremely offensive in other threads. I'd appreciate your being respectful here. Thank you.
The objective of T6 Uber Carry community (TUC) is to provide efficient and well-organized T6 carries to any players in need at any time. Some players wish to do T6 but can't. Paid T6 carry services were being advertised in d2jsp and DP. We wanted TUC to fulfill this need and provide a free alternative. One common challenge for any T6 Uber services is to carry players on demand whenever customers need. Unity Clans are represented globally and include over 250 T6 efficient players. It may not be easy to stop whatever one member is doing to attend TUC, however, other members can be available. We are confident we can meet the demand.
That said, you are absolutely correct in that it's a win-win situation, maybe even slightly better for the carriers given the current poor drop rates for keys. We never meant to "leech" off hard earned keys. We provide raffle uber portals weekly to carry any TUC users. We've implemented a feedback system, currently crude but effective hopefully, to improve our service and customer satisfaction. TUC is entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use the service. So yes, I believe service is an appropriate name for such a community.
I invite you to consider two scenarios for a T4 capable player, who wants to use 20 sets of keys.
Scenario A: Player provides 20 infernal machines, and uses TUC service in T6.
Scenario B: Player finds 3 other players and provides 20 machines each in T4.
Now for A, it's almost a sure bet all opened uber portals will be completed within relatively short time, and it's probably worry-free for the player. On the other hand, for B, depending on team's readiness for T4, everyone may need to give his/her 100%, and it's possible the T4 team simply can't defeat that one uber combo. What happens now? Who would be the unlucky one to accept a wasted portal and be replaced with a helper?
In reality, a T5 or T6 player would never choose to use his/her portal with a T4 team; A T4 ubers pickup team would usually get T4 players at best, and sometimes T1-T3 players. This fact significantly reduces the likelihood of a successful or fast uber bosses clear.
More positively, assuming both T6 and T4 teams would take 4 mins to finish a run on average, and the target drop rates apply to all players. The T6 TUC team would consume 8 mins per organ gained, over 2 mins less than the counterpart.
Please see the following table for reference.
Scenario
Organ Drop Rate (%)
Total number of runs
Time per run (mins)
Total time consumed
Total # of organs gained
Time consumed per organ
A
50 (T6)
20
4
80
10
8
B
38 (T4)
80
4
320
30.40
10.53
If anyone has any suggestions to help improve TUC, please feel free to share with us.
75+ members
July 24, Edited this post in response to erav2000's comments.
erav2000, Summary: TUC is a free alternative to advertised paid carry services,
providing efficient and well-organized carries any time;
entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use;
we strive to improve service and customer satisfaction with user feedback;
A T4 player would probably gain more organs per unit time using TUC.
I know you've been extremely offensive in other threads. I'd appreciate your being respectful here. Thank you.
The objective of T6 Uber Carry community (TUC) is to provide efficient and well-organized T6 carries to any players in need at any time. Some players wish to do T6 but can't. Paid T6 carry services were being advertised in d2jsp and DP. We wanted TUC to fulfill this need and provide a free alternative. One common challenge for any T6 Uber services is to carry players on demand whenever customers need. Unity Clans are represented globally and include over 250 T6 efficient players. It may not be easy to stop whatever one member is doing to attend TUC, however, other members can be available. We are confident we can meet the demand.
That said, you are absolutely correct in that it's a win-win situation, maybe even slightly better for the carriers given the current poor drop rates for keys. We never meant to "leech" off hard earned keys. We provide raffle uber portals weekly to carry any TUC users. We've implemented a feedback system, currently crude but effective hopefully, to improve our service and customer satisfaction. TUC is entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use the service. So yes, I believe service is an appropriate name for such a community.
I invite you to consider two scenarios for a T4 capable player, who wants to use 20 sets of keys.
Scenario A: Player provides 20 infernal machines, and uses TUC service in T6.
Scenario B: Player finds 3 other players and provides 20 machines each in T4.
Now for A, it's almost a sure bet all opened uber portals will be completed within relatively short time, and it's probably worry-free for the player. On the other hand, for B, depending on team's readiness for T4, everyone may need to give his/her 100%, and it's possible the T4 team simply can't defeat that one uber combo. What happens now? Who would be the unlucky one to accept a wasted portal and be replaced with a helper?
In reality, a T5 or T6 player would never choose to use his/her portal with a T4 team; A T4 ubers pickup team would usually get T4 players at best, and sometimes T1-T3 players. This fact significantly reduces the likelihood of a successful or fast uber bosses clear.
More positively, assuming both T6 and T4 teams would take 4 mins to finish a run on average, and the target drop rates apply to all players. The T6 TUC team would consume 8 mins per organ gained, over 2 mins less than the counterpart.
Please see the following table for reference.
Scenario
Organ Drop Rate (%)
Total number of runs
Time per run (mins)
Total time consumed
Total # of organs gained
Time consumed per organ
A
50 (T6)
20
4
80
10
8
B
38 (T4)
80
4
320
30.40
10.53
If anyone has any suggestions to help improve TUC, please feel free to share with us.
BTW the T6 Uber Carry (TUC) community is in US server. Thanks for your interest!
Edited July 27 -
Dear prospective TUC user,
Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
All - Thanks for the helpful discussions.
Best,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
Thanks for pointing this out. Sorry you feel insulted. I'm afraid my comment in question was taken out of context. It was meant to shed light on what some of the potentially hidden factors are. One tends to omit these factors when claiming any carry is "doing nothing". Maybe not everyone agrees they are valid.
The fact is it's difficult to find available carriers sometimes. Fully-geared T6 efficient players still have many things to do in order to achieve various individual objectives, including chasing the perfect gear affixes, grinding for paragon levels, climbing DP ladders, looking for upgrades (e.g., trifecta RoRG, perfect TnT), stocking up rift/uber keys etc. As a result, most carriers are not immediately available to attend a request to carry, especially when TUC is relatively inactive. As the community continue to grow, eventually TUC will need more T6 efficient ubers slayers.
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
A customer is a user of the service, free or not. Any player is welcome to stay in TUC but may not become a customer or user. Let's be clear, no one is twisting your arms into using TUC as others pointed out.
The scenarios are exactly the same as you used in one of your posts. If you'd call that manipulative, be my guest. Actually when we factor in the time spent on farming 20 sets of keys as opposed to 80, the result is exactly the same, i.e., Scenario A (3 carry 1 in T6) takes about 20% less total kw+ubers time per organ than Scenario B (pickup team of 4 in T4) for a single player with 20 infernal machines. A new scenario where 2 carry 2 in T6 would be even more efficient.
You are worried about fairness. Why don't you want to factor in the additional time all carriers have spent to be capable of carrying 2 or 1 customer(s) in T6? Why not factor in stopping a run to be on call for TUC? It's not "doing nothing". I doubt T6 uber bosses would just self-implode being exposed to carriers.
You misunderstood my example and put words in my mouth. In the first quote below, I stated that random pickup group for T4 ubers would probably get 4 T4 players, which is the best such a team can get. Because T5 or T6 players would choose T5 or T6 instead to take advantage of higher drop rates, while sometimes a T3 (or even T2 T1) player would opt to join a T4 team for higher drop rates.
No one belongs to the selected few. There is no room for any sort of elitism, trolling or flaming in Unity Clans, Unity League or TUC. We want to build friendly, supportive and helpful communities. If there is only one thing I desire to make clear and ensure, this is it.
Best,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
Summary: TUC is a free alternative to advertised paid carry services,
- providing efficient and well-organized carries any time;
- entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use;
- we strive to improve service and customer satisfaction with user feedback;
- A T4 player would probably gain more organs per unit time using TUC.
I know you've been extremely offensive in other threads. I'd appreciate your being respectful here. Thank you.The objective of T6 Uber Carry community (TUC) is to provide efficient and well-organized T6 carries to any players in need at any time. Some players wish to do T6 but can't. Paid T6 carry services were being advertised in d2jsp and DP. We wanted TUC to fulfill this need and provide a free alternative. One common challenge for any T6 Uber services is to carry players on demand whenever customers need. Unity Clans are represented globally and include over 250 T6 efficient players. It may not be easy to stop whatever one member is doing to attend TUC, however, other members can be available. We are confident we can meet the demand.
That said, you are absolutely correct in that it's a win-win situation, maybe even slightly better for the carriers given the current poor drop rates for keys. We never meant to "leech" off hard earned keys. We provide raffle uber portals weekly to carry any TUC users. We've implemented a feedback system, currently crude but effective hopefully, to improve our service and customer satisfaction. TUC is entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use the service. So yes, I believe service is an appropriate name for such a community.
I invite you to consider two scenarios for a T4 capable player, who wants to use 20 sets of keys.
Scenario A: Player provides 20 infernal machines, and uses TUC service in T6.
Scenario B: Player finds 3 other players and provides 20 machines each in T4.
Now for A, it's almost a sure bet all opened uber portals will be completed within relatively short time, and it's probably worry-free for the player. On the other hand, for B, depending on team's readiness for T4, everyone may need to give his/her 100%, and it's possible the T4 team simply can't defeat that one uber combo. What happens now? Who would be the unlucky one to accept a wasted portal and be replaced with a helper?
In reality, a T5 or T6 player would never choose to use his/her portal with a T4 team; A T4 ubers pickup team would usually get T4 players at best, and sometimes T1-T3 players. This fact significantly reduces the likelihood of a successful or fast uber bosses clear.
More positively, assuming both T6 and T4 teams would take 4 mins to finish a run on average, and the target drop rates apply to all players. The T6 TUC team would consume 8 mins per organ gained, over 2 mins less than the counterpart.
Please see the following table for reference.
Thanks for reading.
Best Regards,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
July 24, Edited this post in response to erav2000's comments.
erav2000,
Summary: TUC is a free alternative to advertised paid carry services,
- providing efficient and well-organized carries any time;
- entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use;
- we strive to improve service and customer satisfaction with user feedback;
- A T4 player would probably gain more organs per unit time using TUC.
I know you've been extremely offensive in other threads. I'd appreciate your being respectful here. Thank you.The objective of T6 Uber Carry community (TUC) is to provide efficient and well-organized T6 carries to any players in need at any time. Some players wish to do T6 but can't. Paid T6 carry services were being advertised in d2jsp and DP. We wanted TUC to fulfill this need and provide a free alternative. One common challenge for any T6 Uber services is to carry players on demand whenever customers need. Unity Clans are represented globally and include over 250 T6 efficient players. It may not be easy to stop whatever one member is doing to attend TUC, however, other members can be available. We are confident we can meet the demand.
That said, you are absolutely correct in that it's a win-win situation, maybe even slightly better for the carriers given the current poor drop rates for keys. We never meant to "leech" off hard earned keys. We provide raffle uber portals weekly to carry any TUC users. We've implemented a feedback system, currently crude but effective hopefully, to improve our service and customer satisfaction. TUC is entirely based on supply and demand and willingness to use the service. So yes, I believe service is an appropriate name for such a community.
I invite you to consider two scenarios for a T4 capable player, who wants to use 20 sets of keys.
Scenario A: Player provides 20 infernal machines, and uses TUC service in T6.
Scenario B: Player finds 3 other players and provides 20 machines each in T4.
Now for A, it's almost a sure bet all opened uber portals will be completed within relatively short time, and it's probably worry-free for the player. On the other hand, for B, depending on team's readiness for T4, everyone may need to give his/her 100%, and it's possible the T4 team simply can't defeat that one uber combo. What happens now? Who would be the unlucky one to accept a wasted portal and be replaced with a helper?
In reality, a T5 or T6 player would never choose to use his/her portal with a T4 team; A T4 ubers pickup team would usually get T4 players at best, and sometimes T1-T3 players. This fact significantly reduces the likelihood of a successful or fast uber bosses clear.
More positively, assuming both T6 and T4 teams would take 4 mins to finish a run on average, and the target drop rates apply to all players. The T6 TUC team would consume 8 mins per organ gained, over 2 mins less than the counterpart.
Please see the following table for reference.
Thanks for reading.
Best Regards,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.
Edited July 27 -
Dear prospective TUC user,
Uber Carries is nothing new, and has been offered by many teams of 1-3 players (Example). Compared to many paid or free T6 carry services currently advertised elsewhere, TUC is meant to provide an alternative with some unique advantages (Post#3). But it should be made abundantly clear that the existing model strongly favors the runners when they choose to gain organs without using keys in return. Because farming keys takes a long time. It's not rewarding enough given the much disputed drop rates for both keys and organs: 25%@T1, increasing to 50%@T6. A T lvl capable player may be better off pulling keys together equally in a 4p team (Post#36, Thanks Mandrikar).
All runners are encouraged to open portals in return and share the burden of providing keys (Post#6, Thanks Apek).
All - Thanks for the helpful discussions.
Best,
solar
"Unity League" Community welcome all heroes.