I'm a longtime Diablo player. I dedicated ALOT of time playing Diablo 2 in it's prime. What made PvP special in D2 was it being a "game within the game". The success of PvP in D2 was more or less created and established by the players. The creators just added the option to go "Hostile" against a player who was in the same game as you. Sure, there were aspects thought out by the designers as to what should happen when a player is fighting another player, but I doubt they thought it would become it's own "thing" within the game itself.
It was really more than "Oh, lets just play diablo 2 PvP, cause that's what this game is". It was about being in a game, discussing strategies, bullshitting, talking trash, and occasionally saying "G", and running out of town into the Moors to get your fight on. It was a break from leveling and doing MF runs, with no real guidelines as to what should or shouldn't happen. The players established there own guidelines and, for the most part, they stuck.
As far as Diablo 3 goes, I am thoroughly enjoying the game because I feel like Blizzard has effectively combined elements of old and new - It feels fresh, but there are plenty of things that simply remind me of the old diablo games... and I like that feeling.
The whole idea of what Blizzard perceives to be PvP as a part of Diablo, in this game, just feels wrong to me. I mean... It's there.... "Brawling". But again, it just doesn't feel right.
I think they should have just mimicked what they did for D2 - add a "hostile" option, and let players freely fight one another outside of town. And, sure add some PvP damage nerfs or whatever to make it more enjoyable, but I don't think it really needs to go beyond that. Let the players make something out of it.
The bottom line for me is gonna sound cliché, but seriously.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if you want to make it better, than try to make it better. BUT, if something doesn't work, than that shit just don't work.
If Blizzard really wants PvP to be a "thing" in Diablo 3, I think they need to take the simplified approach and go back to what works. Start there, and then try to make it better.
Have fun, and Cheers!
You reflect my thoughts almost exactly.
I have always pointed toward the genius of D2 PvP being it's simplicity and lack of form or bounds. I read a long ago Blue post over at Bnet once years ago that stated "The geography of Sanctuary is not conducive to PvP gameplay."
In saying so, we were given an admission that they have no clue what made D2 PvP so fun for so many. Sadly, if PvP is ever offered in D3, it will probably be tightly constructed, constrictive, arena style team combat.
If they would give us arena with POSSIBILITY to create rules (ban certain skills or passives, give each player certain items, set damage, toughness, cc, speed and all other things) we would create legit competetive living pvp within few weeks. Kappa thats all I have to say about "blablabla d3 unbalanced blablabla pvp not possible".
Diablo PvP doesn't need to be balanced or have arenas to be fun. All it needs is an open world hostile feature. Done.
I hope not. PvP in Diablo series always sucked. Lets stay with the carnage against the hordes and demons of Sanctuary.
That's bcz you like PvM. You can't tell us it wasn't nice PvP in Diablo II.
Sure I can. PvP in D2 consisted up a bunch of trolling jackasses joining people games, flagging, and killing them for no reason.
Somebody has no idea that there was a HUGE melee dueling circuit. All good mannered, rules, tournaments, prizes, clan and our own websites to organize events. Clueless.
They didn't build d2 around pvp though, they have given you a pvp map in d3, exactly like d2. It was always in act 1. and the moves 1 shotted you most of the time.
It wasn't always Act 1. Organized duels or random BM duels...yeah. But the rebellious freedom of D2 PvP allowed for players to chase each other around like mad. What's that, Diablo Clone walks the earth......in the middle of a 8 man duel? No way. Too fun. Now we have 8 players racing around to spawn him, while simultaneously battling each other.
OK....this is getting to me a bit. It has become fast apparent to me that many people playing D3 have not a fucking singular clue about how PvP worked in D2. Not. A. Clue. Diablo 2...the ENTIRE game, all 5 acts were the "PvP map". Anywhere and everywhere, and that sort of dynamic opened the door for unmitigated, non-sterilized FUN.
We don't have that in D3, at all. We have this amazingly lazy attempt to sate the PvP'ers appetite in brawling, and not a single PvP aficionado bought that shit. It's horrible. This 1 tiny map with stupid obstacles consuming most of it. Are you fucking kidding me? It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Here's where the disconnect is between devs and PvP players. The game DOES NOT need to be designed around PvP. It just doesn't. All the game needs is a viable outlet for such....and guess what? The fucking players will figure the rest of it out. We don't need Blizzard dictating stringent guidelines and parameters, arenas and such. Just let us fight OPEN WORLD with a mutual hostile feature.....there done. Same as we had in D2 (save for the mutual hostile) and the players that want PvP can shut up, the little softy pussies that are scared of PK'ers can shut up and the devs can move on.
Adding flavor to a game that consists of many different ways to play and have fun is never a bad thing. There have been plenty of suggested ideas and fixes to PvP to make it an enjoyable and balanced experience. Sure there will be people who can play this game indefinitely for what it is, but having that bonus feature that you can choose/not choose to do that offers a completely different experience just adds life to the game. Claiming the diablo series is never and will never be a pvp game is just limiting the potential of this whole franchise. I personally have been involved with PvP in multiple games and genres and have come across LOTS of people that would play diablo 3 if it offered a fun and somewhat balanced PvP mode.
To me, it comes down to eliminating CC (crowd control/control impairment) skills in PvP as well as a hefty damage reduction to prevent 1 shot kills. Beyond that, I see no reason whatsoever that we can't have a healthy PvP experience in D3.