That's another thing to consider too. If Blizzard was focused on catering to the individuals that said "what other people do outside my game doesn't affect me" then they wouldn't need to remove the Auction House. Yes, the AH does influences drop rates in the current game and that does affect those players who mostly keep to themselves, but why not just instead excise that influence and leave the AH standing? They could just stop making the drop rates take the Auction House into account and keep the AH. The fact that they found it necessary to remove the AH completely shows that they do care about the way people are exchanging items as a community and how that affects the way finding legendaries from monsters feels for the average person who takes advantage of all the systems and mechanics in the game that Blizzard endorses.
I'm not saying a middle ground can't be taken that allows trading. I'm just saying this shows to some extent where their priorities lie and how that influences the decisions they make. To me, it shows they care about what the community is doing as a collective. Not to mention the fact that having to balance drops around the AH in the first place shows they care about what the community is doing at large concerning items; but that was a decision made very long ago as well.
I also think they want to avoid a feeling of cognitive dissonance amongst the stances they take. If they allow a system to be in a game, they want to make sure the game is balanced around that system just by the very nature that it exists. To have it exist and then say, "well, it is there, but you can just avoid it for a better experience" has a very duplicitous nature that has to at least be considered. I'm not using this as an argument for or against trading, because obviously whether trading is allowed or not being a better experience is subjective, but just some food for thought. It's all about what priority Blizzard wants to put on a pedestal, and I think either way people are going to get burned.
So really it boils down to what Blizzard's order of priorities are as far as what they choose to implement and what boundaries they choose to set. I think their course of action with the AH removal shows that they want finding loot from monsters to be the best way to get loot for the community at large, and anything that attempts to compromise that on a global scale is a secondary priority. They might know that some players keep to themselves mostly and can have a more individual experience, but that's clearly not the player they want to balance the game around. Otherwise removing the auction house entirely wouldn't be necessary at all, they'd just have to make sure it doesn't influence those who choose not to use it.
They could just have all options available and that would be suitable for the entire playerbase: self-founder, mostly self-founder but some trading with friends only, traders, and auction house users. Drop tables are balanced around self-found play and anyone who chooses to use any other options to obtain loot can do so at their own impulse and discretion based on their own idea of fun. If Diablo was a sandbox game this is probably what it would look like. But I don't think Blizzard wants this type of operation. They clearly care about what influence each and every one of the systems within the game creates. From Blizzards perspective, the fact that it exists means that they endorse anyone who uses it which means they have to acknowledge how players who use the system are influenced by it, not the players who choose to avoid it. I feel like that's the just the way Blizzard analyzes these things. It's their way of drawing a line in the sand. We have seen this time and time again with pretty much every patch that restricts and expands what players can and can't do. So, really it is no surprise for me to see them do the same with trading.
Calling back to an example I made earlier, if there was an NPC that gave infinite gold they would acknowledge how that NPC affected players that used it, not players that chose self-control and avoided it, when selecting a point of balance. Is that methodology right or wrong? Debatable I suppose. My only argument here is that I believe this is just Blizzard's modus operandi for making these types of decisions.
Whether that is good or bad for the game overall, we all have our own opinions. But let's keep in mind we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle either.
I do want to make a note that I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions on this subject as well.
The problem with the AH is it was TOO READILY available. With trading you are severly limited in that I can only join a game with 3 other people. I'm not looking at ~40 pages of the same item over and over. Think about it. First you have to find a leg of worth to trade. So I want Frostburns but can only find Taskers... I now have to have found a Taskers, then somehow managed to get into a game with someone who has been lucky enough to find a Frostburn AND want to trade for a taskers. Chat helps speed this up, but most people don't use general chats. The other alternative would be going to sites like d2jsp, but the problem with that is not everyone is willing to put their cash into a 3rd party site to get a cool BiS item for them, and not many are even willing to take the extra time to go out of their way and even peruse a site such as d2jsp. I'm one of em. Literally never even been to d2JSP. Like NEVER. I Have used the Ah however and that's cause it was like the only way to gear well. If some of the proposed changes happen it'll be a bit easier to gear by yourself, but I think they're going a bit overboard in the other direction.
It doesn't matter. A shortcut is a shortcut. Being less of a shortcut doesn't absolve it from being a shortcut. Removing the AH and only allowing trading on a mass scale just makes the undesirable destination further away, but it doesn't change that destination. There is no item I can acquire from the AH that I can't also acquire with trading. It's slower trading because it is less streamlined, but in essence it's the same conceptually. In the end, you're still not hunting the item yourself which is supposed to be the focal design crux in a monster slaying loot hunting game. We want a game that will be satisfying for years to come, but we're not willing to analyze how trading shortens that experience?
It is evident to me now that Blizzard's main priority is how satisfying the loot hunt is from slaying monsters, how finding those items feels when you acquire them yourself, and how this plays a role in the scope of the community at large. By placing that priority as their primary goal anything that diminishes this seems secondary to them now.
Yes it does provide a shortcut, but remember as long as drops are hard to come by and not showering down on us then we'd still have to work. Trading is literally just a RNG check in that it allows you to find the leg you want instead of the one the RNG is constantly giving you. I already know I want to be a frost mage. There's 0 argument in my mind that's what I plan on building. Now I have to find legs that give me a greater output of damage and defense. One such item is frostburns, if for some reason I'm stuck with only finding any other glove other then frostburns there has to be a system to check the RNG and make sure it's available to me someway. That's where trading would come in. It's not ideal but if you do get the short end of the stick it's there to help out. Enchanting does this to a lesser degree, I can't magically get that special affix of 40% extra cold damage, but at least I can change stats that are less than stellar thanks to RNG.
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They are introducing guilds and clans at the same time they're taking away the last of the large scale interactions left while still having no plan about PvP. Raiding is obviously not for this game. Mind you, guilds and clans could've been absolutely great now that the AHs no longer existed and really foster a sense of community and all that fun but... now you don't have a real reason to be in one, and nothing to do if you end up in one.
I disagree here completely. Having a guild/Clan allows you to interact a lot more with people. I am going to use maplestory as an example cause I've played it for a long time. In the beginning it was just me and my friend, as we got older we realized it was boring with just us two, so we'd make some friends here and there but nothing that lasted. Then we decided we'd make a guild and from there on we always had someone to talk to. Someone to help us out, and at times we'd help them out. It became a community inside of a community, which is exactly what clans and guilds are supposed to do. They allow you to interact with people, whether it be simply talking or training, or trading. So To say clans completely lose their purpose is going a bit far. They definitely will still serve their purpose. Hoping Dfans gets a clan so I can join up and play with all you fine fellows on the forums.
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That's another thing to consider too. If Blizzard was focused on catering to the individuals that said "what other people do outside my game doesn't affect me" then they wouldn't need to remove the Auction House. Yes, the AH does influences drop rates in the current game and that does affect those players who mostly keep to themselves, but why not just instead excise that influence and leave the AH standing? They could just stop making the drop rates take the Auction House into account and keep the AH. The fact that they found it necessary to remove the AH completely shows that they do care about the way people are exchanging items as a community and how that affects the way finding legendaries from monsters feels for the average person who takes advantage of all the systems and mechanics in the game that Blizzard endorses.
I'm not saying a middle ground can't be taken that allows trading. I'm just saying this shows to some extent where their priorities lie and how that influences the decisions they make. To me, it shows they care about what the community is doing as a collective. Not to mention the fact that having to balance drops around the AH in the first place shows they care about what the community is doing at large concerning items; but that was a decision made very long ago as well.
I also think they want to avoid a feeling of cognitive dissonance amongst the stances they take. If they allow a system to be in a game, they want to make sure the game is balanced around that system just by the very nature that it exists. To have it exist and then say, "well, it is there, but you can just avoid it for a better experience" has a very duplicitous nature that has to at least be considered. I'm not using this as an argument for or against trading, because obviously whether trading is allowed or not being a better experience is subjective, but just some food for thought. It's all about what priority Blizzard wants to put on a pedestal, and I think either way people are going to get burned.
So really it boils down to what Blizzard's order of priorities are as far as what they choose to implement and what boundaries they choose to set. I think their course of action with the AH removal shows that they want finding loot from monsters to be the best way to get loot for the community at large, and anything that attempts to compromise that on a global scale is a secondary priority. They might know that some players keep to themselves mostly and can have a more individual experience, but that's clearly not the player they want to balance the game around. Otherwise removing the auction house entirely wouldn't be necessary at all, they'd just have to make sure it doesn't influence those who choose not to use it.
They could just have all options available and that would be suitable for the entire playerbase: self-founder, mostly self-founder but some trading with friends only, traders, and auction house users. Drop tables are balanced around self-found play and anyone who chooses to use any other options to obtain loot can do so at their own impulse and discretion based on their own idea of fun. If Diablo was a sandbox game this is probably what it would look like. But I don't think Blizzard wants this type of operation. They clearly care about what influence each and every one of the systems within the game creates. From Blizzards perspective, the fact that it exists means that they endorse anyone who uses it which means they have to acknowledge how players who use the system are influenced by it, not the players who choose to avoid it. I feel like that's the just the way Blizzard analyzes these things. It's their way of drawing a line in the sand. We have seen this time and time again with pretty much every patch that restricts and expands what players can and can't do. So, really it is no surprise for me to see them do the same with trading.
Calling back to an example I made earlier, if there was an NPC that gave infinite gold they would acknowledge how that NPC affected players that used it, not players that chose self-control and avoided it, when selecting a point of balance. Is that methodology right or wrong? Debatable I suppose. My only argument here is that I believe this is just Blizzard's modus operandi for making these types of decisions.
Whether that is good or bad for the game overall, we all have our own opinions. But let's keep in mind we don't have all the pieces to the puzzle either.
I do want to make a note that I really enjoy reading everyone's opinions on this subject as well.
The problem with the AH is it was TOO READILY available. With trading you are severly limited in that I can only join a game with 3 other people. I'm not looking at ~40 pages of the same item over and over. Think about it. First you have to find a leg of worth to trade. So I want Frostburns but can only find Taskers... I now have to have found a Taskers, then somehow managed to get into a game with someone who has been lucky enough to find a Frostburn AND want to trade for a taskers. Chat helps speed this up, but most people don't use general chats. The other alternative would be going to sites like d2jsp, but the problem with that is not everyone is willing to put their cash into a 3rd party site to get a cool BiS item for them, and not many are even willing to take the extra time to go out of their way and even peruse a site such as d2jsp. I'm one of em. Literally never even been to d2JSP. Like NEVER. I Have used the Ah however and that's cause it was like the only way to gear well. If some of the proposed changes happen it'll be a bit easier to gear by yourself, but I think they're going a bit overboard in the other direction.
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To point two Listen again, he doesn't say that there are going to be one harder to find he says (after saying that 6 Legs drop on average) that there are still going to be those items that you want to find and work for, we aren't making legendaries go out of style they'll still have worth and we aren't handing you them. So What he really meant was here's 6 perfectly good legendaries that you can use, and its 6 so out of the 100's of legendaries there are you have 6 and now you have to work as in keep playing to get the ones you wanted because you might not always get the ones you want first try or 4th try or millionth try for that matter.
Well, right now I literally have 6-7 pairs of Gladiator's Gauntlets not counting the ones i salvaged and I'm pretty sure I would see a whole bunch of more Gladiator's Gauntlets and similar low end legendaries before ever finding a Mempo (which I still haven't). Unless you have some proof that this will suddenly change in RoS and that all legendaries are going to become equal in rarity (totally unreasonable to even consider) then I really don't see what you are trying to prove now. I also entirely disagree with your interpretation of "what he really meant" in that video. He actually said "we won't be handing them like they're going out of style" exactly so that people wouldn't jump to conclusions after hearing such a high number of legendaries found per run, but I guess people will always find a way to misinterpret very plain statements and get their own meaning of things.
The fact that all legendaries are going to be somewhat good doesn't mean "every legendary is equal in power". It's the unique effects they have that make them interesting or useful in certain scenarios. On Blizzcon they also said during a panel that the rarer an item is, the more powerful it should be, period (although you can easily misinterpret this too if you wish).
Wrong he in no way states that any legendary will be more rare than the last or the fact that the legendaries would have tiers to them. Never does anyone ever say this. Rarity as In Blue yellow and Legendary/sets sure, and the legendary affixes are just build changes. The actual stats that an item can roll is what will ultimately make you look for this item over this one. In my example Frostburn is currently the only glove or item for that matter that increases cold damage by a percent, and it's not measly 10 in the new version is had a sick percentage i think around 40% could be mistaken and it could be closer to 30%. That's what makes that item so appealing. The legendary affix is just another reason to get a legendary.
And yet when he says we find 6 on average that just screams "hey have some legs" I mean finding one a run would be a lot personally. It's supposed to be rewarding when you find it not hey here's 6 of em. I feel like he and you are missing the point entirely. The fact that so many are dropping is bad. It will over inflate the market as quickly as the consoles market did. And now with a smaller stat range it'll be even easier to find better gear. Maybe a bit too easy. I can't say for sure cause I haven't tested but the numbers are starting to look worse and worse when you think about how easy it'll be to find gear.
And it isn't unreasonable to consider that all legs will be equal in power especially since now every item can roll at higher iLVL, which in turn means your gladiator Gauntlets can now roll stats equal to 750-900 main stat at max. That makes them pretty useful for someone who just got to 70 and doesn't really have gear. If they add a legendary affix that helps you out and they add a special affix for them that's also useful that could be your end game glove. You could end up using it over anything else because it'll suit your playstyle better. If you listen to the blizzcon panels they all say that they want to move away from trifecta by adding other valuable stats, some of these stats may only be on a single item and that can make them arguably better. So i don't see why it's unreasonable to have them all be equal. That's how it should be after all. There isn't one right way to play with your items and if there is that's just saying that blizzard has horrible itemization skills and has to completely overhaul their legendaries AGAIN! You shouldn't be able to say, alright THIS IS BiS for WIZ. It should be this is really useful for Frost mages, but this is more useful for CMWW.
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Your first point is moot because sure they exist, and sure people use them but the majority of players do not.
I really don't care who uses them and who doesn't. That's absolutely beside the point. Even if 0 people want to trade for money, my time spent in the game is devalued by the fact that the results for my hard work can be obtained without any of that hard work. But that's just me - it might be different for you and I respect that. I really don't see though, how my point is moot because "the majority of players this or that". I really don't care. The fact is that top geared players might have purchased their gear or worked for it. We will never know, will we? If I ever get to be a top geared player I don't really have much to show for it if I am just one of many people who may or may not have bought their gear.
To the second point, as it stands every leg has an equal chance to drop..
No, bro. Watch the vid for loot 2.0 announcement. Immediately after talking about how legendaries will be witnessed in the game a whole lot more often, there is an explanation that there are still going to be those really powerful legendaries that are very hard to find. And it's not true that every legendary has the equal chance of dropping, that is 100% incorrect.
To point one, It really upsets you and devalues your game when someone just bought the item? REALLY? That's pretty sad that you completely devalue your time when someone bought something without working for it. The option will always be there whether you like it or not so I guess you could say good-bye to Diablo 3 because your entire Diablo 3 play time and usage was devaulued because I traded something on the AH! Sorry for ruining your experience bro.
To point two Listen again, he doesn't say that there are going to be one harder to find he says (after saying that 6 Legs drop on average) that there are still going to be those items that you want to find and work for, we aren't making legendaries go out of style they'll still have worth and we aren't handing you them. So What he really meant was here's 6 perfectly good legendaries that you can use, and its 6 so out of the 100's of legendaries there are you have 6 and now you have to work as in keep playing to get the ones you wanted because you might not always get the ones you want first try or 4th try or millionth try for that matter.
If I come off like a dick I'm truly not trying to be. I just feel like if it bothers you that much your probably shouldn't play, and IF you really didn't care then it wouldn't devalue your experience at all. Just sayin'
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Now how long do you think ANYONE will be continue to play that character when they no longer get worthwhile loot. I mean it was all worthwhile up until around the week 4 mark and then it slowed down considerably.
I honestly have no idea. How long do people continue to play after they buy all the items they need? How quickly can you get from top 30% to top 10% in an ebay economy? Seconds? Minutes?
The better question than "how long do you play after the game stops dropping worthwhile loot" is "how long do you play a game in which there is no worthwhile loot to begin with". What exactly is "worth my while" if there is no difference between 1% drop chance and 0.0000001% drop chance, in an economy where millions of people keep producing items on a daily basis to a point where everything can be found in an absolute abundance months if not weeks after a ladder reset?
There's a huge difference. When the drop chance is 1% everyone getting one, when its 0.0000001% barely anyones got one. With the removal of the AH they stepped in the right direction because it's not so readily available. Do you honestly think that every game you enter will just be 3 people standing in town spamming "JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!" No The chances of you meeting those "millions of players" is very slim especially with a four person game. Remember we cant choose what game we join.If they added trading it adds some sort of availability, but its severely limited in that you'll never see whose got one. You may enter 50 games and never find the Soj or Jallals you are looking for, simple as that. Now with BoA you may never be able to get that item (IF THEY'D FIX THE DROP RATE)
No, I was specifically referring to the fact that you can buy items from numerous websites very quickly after a ladder starts. I remember that it takes less than two weeks before you can buy Hellfire Torches in a fresh ladder. With all the bad shit that AH/RMAH meant for the game, I think RMAH was actually kind of good in the fact that players still kind of traded with one another (except that it was really WAY too convenient as you mention) instead of turning to the market of Chinese farmers and botters which is exactly what would happen. I can't really tell which is worse (AH or totally uncontrollable black market).
I've also seen you argue this in posts before that we don't know how the drop rates are going to work and they wont be bad.... Well if you take all the Loot 2.0 details and think and compile them for a moment you'd realize the game is in a literally awful state right now. Think about how awesome every gear you saw was. Think about how badass they want to make legendaries. Then think about how many you find per act 3 run solo at p40? 6... In a 4 person co-op game that's 24 legendaries to split between you guys. Then if that holds true for all 5 acts, you're looking at almost 120 legendaries a game between four people. Since they'll all be so mighty and powerful cause your loot has to be meaningful you know, you will never need to play this game outside of a few months. The end will be there and you will have nothing to do. Literally nothing. There will again be no endgame. No cool content to continue through nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch NOTHING!
Once again, the premise is that /really/ powerful legendaries are going to be extremely rare, says Blizzard. It would be like getting 6 items equivalent to Gladiator's Gauntlets just so that you get to see that orange drop once in a while. You don't get Mempos every game, do you? The difference is that they want to make even low-end legendaries kind of interesting because they can support some kind of obscure builds even if their stats are not so good.
Your first point is moot because sure they exist, and sure people use them but the majority of players do not. Most players don't run to D2jsp and start buying forum gold like candy and then getting items. It's a silly argument to make that everyone would do this practice just because the ah had the same fault, when in reality people would have to go out of their way to use d2jsp and most people wouldn't be comfortable using their money on a 3rd party site that isn't directly supported by Blizzard.
To the second point, as it stands every leg has an equal chance to drop. IF I'm not mistaken Legs currently work like this. Legendary drop rate is some arbitrary numebr and after that it has a 1/(However-many-gear-types-there-are) to be a certain gear type after which it has a 1/(how ever many legendaries for that gear type) to be the specific item. I'm almost positive there are no effective drop rates on a per item basis. Which could be another problem. And lastly, this point is also moot because they aren't striving for certain legs to be less useless or certain ones to be "top-tier" they have clearly stated numerous times they want every item to be a build changer, and make them all useful come endgame. This directly stands against what you said that certain ones won't drop as much because their current philosophy is to have every Legendary be equally as powerful as the last only in a different way. I.E Frostburns are great for Frost mages not so much for an CMWW mage, where as a Tasker and Theo might be more useful for the CMWW than the Frost Mage. It's not that anyone is "top-tier" or anyone is meant to be "better" per se but they both serve different purposes and its how well they serve the purpose that defines them as good or not.
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Now how long do you think ANYONE will be continue to play that character when they no longer get worthwhile loot. I mean it was all worthwhile up until around the week 4 mark and then it slowed down considerably.
I honestly have no idea. How long do people continue to play after they buy all the items they need? How quickly can you get from top 30% to top 10% in an ebay economy? Seconds? Minutes?
The better question than "how long do you play after the game stops dropping worthwhile loot" is "how long do you play a game in which there is no worthwhile loot to begin with". What exactly is "worth my while" if there is no difference between 1% drop chance and 0.0000001% drop chance, in an economy where millions of people keep producing items on a daily basis to a point where everything can be found in an absolute abundance months if not weeks after a ladder reset?
There's a huge difference. When the drop chance is 1% everyone getting one, when its 0.0000001% barely anyones got one. With the removal of the AH they stepped in the right direction because it's not so readily available. Do you honestly think that every game you enter will just be 3 people standing in town spamming "JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!" No The chances of you meeting those "millions of players" is very slim especially with a four person game. Remember we cant choose what game we join.If they added trading it adds some sort of availability, but its severely limited in that you'll never see whose got one. You may enter 50 games and never find the Soj or Jallals you are looking for, simple as that. Now with BoA you may never be able to get that item (IF THEY'D FIX THE DROP RATE)
I've also seen you argue this in posts before that we don't know how the drop rates are going to work and they wont be bad.... Well if you take all the Loot 2.0 details and think and compile them for a moment you'd realize the game is in a literally awful state right now. Think about how awesome every gear you saw was. Think about how badass they want to make legendaries. Then think about how many you find per act 3 run solo at p40? 6... In a 4 person co-op game that's 24 legendaries to split between you guys. Then if that holds true for all 5 acts, you're looking at almost 120 legendaries a game between four people. Since they'll all be so mighty and powerful cause your loot has to be meaningful you know, you will never need to play this game outside of a few months. The end will be there and you will have nothing to do. Literally nothing. There will again be no endgame. No cool content to continue through nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch NOTHING!
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Maybe Soulbound wont be so bad, but dear god that Legendary drop rate is TOO DAMN HIGH
You don't know the drop rate. You pulled that 120 legendaries per run out of your ass based on some very early development stuff (numbers were compiled pre-Gamescom, so probably 2-3 months ago). There will be more legendary drops as there are right now, but I doubt any character will find 120 legendaries per run - ever. No way. Please keep in mind it's all subject to change.
Well they reinforced that exact same thing at a panel at blizzcon. I remember hearing it again that, that was still the case. I mean come on 120 Legs per game between 4 people is absurd. Even you can see the inherent flaw in that number. I'm not one to usually bash Blizz but this is ridiculous.
And for arguments sake let's say they reduced that number. If their initial plan was 6 how far do you think they'd go down to... 3 Legs average act run? I mean there's a certain mentality you can see in their decision making here. They want it to rain from the sky. Otherwise they would've seen that average number and been like " OH FUCK NO! Too much gotta tone it down" Then gotten new data, instead they were like "Hey guys just a heads up Loot 2.0 gives you 6 legendaries on average in an act 3 run at P40 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D Pretty awesome huh?"
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Years is a little overboard. If this game is going to last it should take years to find every legendary but it shouldn't take years just to find that one you're looking for. Which is where trading would solve that. If I just happen to find your Mempo and you find My tals I could be searching for years just trying to find the Tals and he could spend years trying to find the Mempo. But if we can trade maybe it take me 6 months-1 year to find the Mempo and the same for you finding Tals. I'd love to trade for it because it doesn't mean I'm not putting work into finding it. It means that I simply got unlucky. Getting unlucky shouldn't mean I don't get to use a full build because that's just not fair.
Ex: My Wiz is going to be a Frost Wiz come RoS. I already know because that's what I want. I want to use Sleet storm, Frozen Orb the Cold rune on the new skill, Blizzard, Ice Armor and hopefully they put in a frost generator, if not probably Shock pulse with the fire for some extra damage. So now that I know what I want I have to find items with the passives and stuff that will enable me to get alot of AP regen or APoC and alot of extra frost damage. If I never find Frostburns but find 10 IK gloves, is it so wrong for me to just say "hey can we trade?" It's not like I never worked for those 10 IK gloves I just simply was SOL when grinding. Hopefully they rectify both situations before release. I can't stand this extremity It'll literally kill the game.
Maybe Soulbound wont be so bad, but dear god that Legendary drop rate is TOO DAMN HIGH
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What I am saying is this... someone can argue for any of these four points:
- Pro soulbound legendaries, Pro legendaries dropping like crazy
- Pro soulbound legendaries, Anti legendaries dropping like crazy
- Anti soulbound legendaries, Pro legendaries dropping like crazy
- Anti soulbound legendaries, Anti legendaries dropping like crazy
They can all be an outcome of what happens. Just because I want legendaries to be soulbound does not mean I like what they are doing with making legendaries drop too much. I can want one to stay the way it is heading and desire for the other to change. So, why is that being used as a counter to my stance when I in fact agree with you on that point?
Because I feel the whole reason they took the stance of soulbound legs, which I hate, is because they put the drop rate way too high, which I also hate. I feel like they said "let's throw legs at people", but then were like "oh shit man everyone's got everything in a few days because they all just traded the perf items they found to someone who needed that and that guy had the perf item they needed, so lets remove trading so they can't do that." So they soulbounded Legs because everyone was probably using perf legs and sets instead of rares and blues. This is a problem to me. It's a cheap way to escape having to actually fix a problem they have.
You can't argue 3 or 1 in my eyes 2 is possible but it needs restrictions. I mean 1 and 3 are just stupid to me. Why would you want to kill the item hunt, and then have soulbound legs its just retarded. The point of the legs dropping like crazy is so you can get them but I don't want that. I want to work for it. 3 is similarly stupid because if the legs drop like candy and they aren't soulbound then again you'll never need to play after a few days. 2 Is sorta weird in my opinion. 2 would make it REALLY hard to find gear, because now it isn't dropping and it isn't being traded so now you'll really need to invest thousands of hours to get them. I don't like this one just because it would make it too hard to find the leg. Option 4 though makes most sense to me. You can't find tons of Legs but hey you can trade for the one you want. It's not like everyone's going to have the item either. Just like you they are hunting for a good item as well and it should take time to find a good one, but if you can trade then the time you spent getting a Mempo wasn't a waste because someone elses equal time spent getting a Tals could mean you getting the tals and him getting the mempo.
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Well of course I disagree with legendaries raining upon us in droves making them inherently meaningless. But that has nothing to do with my stance about soulbound legendaries. Those are two different concepts that require two separate arguments.
Not true at all! Think about it. If Legs drop at 6 an act that's 120 Legs a game with 4 people to trade. Now I understand that this is why they probably took out trading. If you could trade and 120 Legs drop every 4 player game run then we'd be geared in a day or two. But if they reduce that amount to say 1-2 an act that puts us at around 20-40 a game run still significant but much less than before. Now say we reduce it to .5 or .25 now we're at 10 to 5 a game and now it's much harder to gear yourself but still POSSIBLE. With trading now we can get items but maybe they aren't for us so I can trade with another guy who has the item I want. I didn't work any less for this item than he did, I just got bad luck and that's all. There has to be a check on this bad luck factor. Or I might consistently get bad luck and just end up with 500 storm crows instead of the single Tals I needed. Where as with trading I could trade 50 of those storm crows for the Tals and be just as satisfied knowing I put in the hours to get legendaries but I was just unfortunate to not get the one I wanted.
They need to find a middle ground. Allow trading but make it hard to find Legendaries I don't want to see 120 drop in a game that's too ridiculous and literally kills the item hunt because there effectively is none, and it also makes people who'd like trading upset because now I can't trade and the people who want meaningful drops aren't getting them because there everywhere!
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I've played many single player games. I've played almost every Mario and Zelda game to date and I have fun accomplishing things in those games just for the sake of it. I don't need a community in those games and I don't need validation for my accomplishments. I just play to play. But, that's not how I view Diablo. It has a community. My friends log in and play with me. I care about that community and the boundaries that Blizzard sets for that community and for the scope of that to encompass a multiplayer experience that is for the most part a mutually shared experience with my friends and everyone else that I might run into. I care about how other people are playing so that when I share how neat it is that I found an item with my friend, he will know that I didn't just spend $50 to buy it. Sure, I could tell him I didn't, but somehow it doesn't hold that same emphasis. It's not to hold it over him or try to elevate myself. It's just neat. The fact that I couldn't just trade for it in a mere 10 minutes instills a sense of worth into the experience that is unattainable otherwise. By fate conspiring in my favor by dropping this item makes it worth more to me than owning 100 others just like it that I had to trade for. I would rather never own that same legendary item than trade for 100 of them. Having the game enforce this is the only way to make these legendaries truly feel legendary. It's not about ranks, it's not about ratings, it's about that feeling. That feeling you get when you know you found something special and the game, your friends, and the community can celebrate that victory with you without all of the background noise of pay to win, trading shortcuts to victory, and that palpable sense of entitlement that players express as though they are owed whatever item they want the fastest they can get their hands on it.
It matters and it's not a sin for that to matter for me. If you want to argue that trading is good for its own sake in the context of the game, go on ahead. I will listen. But don't invalidate my feelings or insinuate they are unhealthy because you yourself don't understand them. I have not paid you in kind.
So, wrap your head around that.
So what you're saying is that in the ten minutes you took to find some other arbitrary legendary that isn't for your class or maybe it is and doesn't fit your build, some other guy whose ten minutes spent playing the game also found him an arbitrary legendary that fits your build, and you wouldn't just wanna be like "Hey I spent time finding this POS i don't need but you do, and you found that POS you dont need but I do, wanna trade?"? I mean really the ridciulous amount of support for this is astounding. It's not anything about finding items. you want to find items look at what they've been saying cause apparently they're taking the worth out of finding items too, or did you miss the part whent hey said a normal solo Act 3 run at p40 got you 6 Legs, and that equates to a fullgame run of around 30 legs, and put that in co-op that's about 120 legs a game... and you still somehow feel that finding that leg is worth something and meaningful? Please don't even try to make an argument against that. because within a few days you'll be maxed out with nothing to do but jerkoff in a corner about how happy you are for finding that Legendary axe...
People are just upset with the possibility of perhaps never being able to get some specific item they want. Not only will this probably turn out to be very unlikely but I also don't see why everyone feels entitled to have exactly everything they want in this game. Remember Annihilus from D2? What irks me that people see duping as a positive thing just like some people saw AH as a positive thing here.
The age of instant gratification in gaming.
Yes the age of instant gratification in gaming is upon us. When people try to stop NO WE MUST HAVE MORE OF IT. SCREW TRADING JUST GIVE THE LEGENDARIES TO PEOPLE THEN REMOVE TRADING SO THAT THEY CAN'T INSTA-TRADE FOR THE ITEM THEY REALLY WANT! GENIUS!!! MORE TRICKERY TO MAKE THE MASSES FOLLOW US!
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I've read through every post in this thread and this is ridiculous. Anyone considering that this would be not only a welcome change but a good one is AWFULLY MISTAKEN. I mean come on just logically think about what this does to players. The funny thing is this is a direct result of another stupid change they're making that many people are overlooking. Since they didn't feel like fixing another problem directly they indirectly fixed it with a shitty shitty shitty, hmm don't know how else to explain this, shitty shitty shitty SHITTY solution. I think they need to get their heads out of their asses and address this now, cause as it stands this is going to literally kill Diablo.
"Earn your loot" is just a bullshit excuse because if they really wanted you to earn your loot they wouldn't be fucking morons and say "On an average Act 3 run with P40 you get 6 [...6] Legendaries." WHO ON THEIR RIGHT MIND THOUGHT 6 LEGENDARIES PER RUN WAS A SMART MOVE AT ALL?!?! EARN YOUR GEAR? MORE LIKE HERE'S A FREE FUCKING HANDOUT! At first I thought this would be great, but now the more I think of it the worse this is becoming. Loot 2.0 is nothing more than a freebie to anyone who's going to play. The funny thing is that's according to a P40 what about when we get to P200 and above are we going to get a Leg per monster pack? 100 Legs a run? Come on It seems like they aren't even trying to balance the game, which is also another thing, looking at all these pics of new Legs and Sets, the range for primary stat was 750-900... ? why so damn high. I mean soon I'm going to have 7k main stat and just ROFLSTOMP MP10? 3k Damages? And in response to a question about big numbers and the over inflation of stats is there a problem with balance... and they laughed the question off and didn't give a fuck in the world.
I imagine their meeting went like this:
Josh: Hey guys I feel like there's not enough good drops what if we up their rate?
Travis: Sure sounds sweet we can put boss stats like 900 int on em too!
Josh: YEAH that's what I'm talking about DIABLO MAN!!!
A few hours later...
Josh: Travis, just played the game in a 4 man co-op for 3 hours ran through all acts, and i found the perfect set, all my gear is maxed. We need a solution to this, got any ideas?
Travis: Hmmmm....
Josh: hmmmm....
Travis: Disable trading?
Josh: PERFECT IDEA THIS WAY THEY CAN'T EASILY MAX UNLESS THEY DO IT THEMSELVES!
Travis: We can tell them it's cause we want them to earn their loot too so it doesn't seem like we're just covering up a bigger problem with our game!
I mean seriously the LOLZ i feel right now is immeasurable. The stupidity in this whole design is absolutely ridiculous. Can someone who actually understands a thing or two about how to balance an economy help them out. Please? before this game turns into everyone has 100% awesome perfecto gear
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They are talking about a 1-2 hours trading window before it becomes soulbound, so lets c what happens.
Yes 1-2 hours of people in your party, anyone else can downright go fuck themselves, because seriously trading ruins the game so fucking much that Blizzard said "FUCK IT TOO MUCH INSTA-GRATIFICATION NO TRADING" and then said "FUCK THESE PEOPLE"
Their reaction is like a childs, so far in one direction for no apparent reason. Worse is they really haven't done anything to explain themselves. IT's quite ridiculous if you ask me. They need to focus on solutions to bigger problems not forcing solutions upon us through shitty means. If they would've stopped and thought to themselves" Wow, well if we take out trading there really is no point in finding gear once you've found yours." or the better question "Why did we just take out trading of the only useful items in the game?"...
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Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.
Honestly i'll give it to blizzard for trying something new. I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?
This is honestly the worst thing that could happen. Blizzard is taking a very dumb stance on this. Because of no trading drops have to be increased, or you'll never get your item... but then what's the point in hunting if I find my items daily? It kills the Loot hunt. So far Loot 2.0 is looking good but I'm hesitant to the supposed drop rates. Loot 2.0 is bringing with it better stat rolls useful secondary affixes, a major overhaul to stat ranges and better range of Legendaries throughout all LVL's of the game. This is all Perfect, but If we are spoonfed Legendaries then they become whites, they're all just flooding us and eventually we'll all be perfect rolled characters... Not entirely fun anymore. They need to look at drop rates keep em low maybe a slight bump not 6 Legendaries on an act 3 run with P40 maybe 1 or 2, and allow trading so you can overall get the same effect but everyone has to actually work for that effect. The way it is now I would just be seeing a golden beam every unique and that's just no fun either.
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Yes it does provide a shortcut, but remember as long as drops are hard to come by and not showering down on us then we'd still have to work. Trading is literally just a RNG check in that it allows you to find the leg you want instead of the one the RNG is constantly giving you. I already know I want to be a frost mage. There's 0 argument in my mind that's what I plan on building. Now I have to find legs that give me a greater output of damage and defense. One such item is frostburns, if for some reason I'm stuck with only finding any other glove other then frostburns there has to be a system to check the RNG and make sure it's available to me someway. That's where trading would come in. It's not ideal but if you do get the short end of the stick it's there to help out. Enchanting does this to a lesser degree, I can't magically get that special affix of 40% extra cold damage, but at least I can change stats that are less than stellar thanks to RNG.
I disagree here completely. Having a guild/Clan allows you to interact a lot more with people. I am going to use maplestory as an example cause I've played it for a long time. In the beginning it was just me and my friend, as we got older we realized it was boring with just us two, so we'd make some friends here and there but nothing that lasted. Then we decided we'd make a guild and from there on we always had someone to talk to. Someone to help us out, and at times we'd help them out. It became a community inside of a community, which is exactly what clans and guilds are supposed to do. They allow you to interact with people, whether it be simply talking or training, or trading. So To say clans completely lose their purpose is going a bit far. They definitely will still serve their purpose. Hoping Dfans gets a clan so I can join up and play with all you fine fellows on the forums.
The problem with the AH is it was TOO READILY available. With trading you are severly limited in that I can only join a game with 3 other people. I'm not looking at ~40 pages of the same item over and over. Think about it. First you have to find a leg of worth to trade. So I want Frostburns but can only find Taskers... I now have to have found a Taskers, then somehow managed to get into a game with someone who has been lucky enough to find a Frostburn AND want to trade for a taskers. Chat helps speed this up, but most people don't use general chats. The other alternative would be going to sites like d2jsp, but the problem with that is not everyone is willing to put their cash into a 3rd party site to get a cool BiS item for them, and not many are even willing to take the extra time to go out of their way and even peruse a site such as d2jsp. I'm one of em. Literally never even been to d2JSP. Like NEVER. I Have used the Ah however and that's cause it was like the only way to gear well. If some of the proposed changes happen it'll be a bit easier to gear by yourself, but I think they're going a bit overboard in the other direction.
Wrong he in no way states that any legendary will be more rare than the last or the fact that the legendaries would have tiers to them. Never does anyone ever say this. Rarity as In Blue yellow and Legendary/sets sure, and the legendary affixes are just build changes. The actual stats that an item can roll is what will ultimately make you look for this item over this one. In my example Frostburn is currently the only glove or item for that matter that increases cold damage by a percent, and it's not measly 10 in the new version is had a sick percentage i think around 40% could be mistaken and it could be closer to 30%. That's what makes that item so appealing. The legendary affix is just another reason to get a legendary.
And yet when he says we find 6 on average that just screams "hey have some legs" I mean finding one a run would be a lot personally. It's supposed to be rewarding when you find it not hey here's 6 of em. I feel like he and you are missing the point entirely. The fact that so many are dropping is bad. It will over inflate the market as quickly as the consoles market did. And now with a smaller stat range it'll be even easier to find better gear. Maybe a bit too easy. I can't say for sure cause I haven't tested but the numbers are starting to look worse and worse when you think about how easy it'll be to find gear.
And it isn't unreasonable to consider that all legs will be equal in power especially since now every item can roll at higher iLVL, which in turn means your gladiator Gauntlets can now roll stats equal to 750-900 main stat at max. That makes them pretty useful for someone who just got to 70 and doesn't really have gear. If they add a legendary affix that helps you out and they add a special affix for them that's also useful that could be your end game glove. You could end up using it over anything else because it'll suit your playstyle better. If you listen to the blizzcon panels they all say that they want to move away from trifecta by adding other valuable stats, some of these stats may only be on a single item and that can make them arguably better. So i don't see why it's unreasonable to have them all be equal. That's how it should be after all. There isn't one right way to play with your items and if there is that's just saying that blizzard has horrible itemization skills and has to completely overhaul their legendaries AGAIN! You shouldn't be able to say, alright THIS IS BiS for WIZ. It should be this is really useful for Frost mages, but this is more useful for CMWW.
To point one, It really upsets you and devalues your game when someone just bought the item? REALLY? That's pretty sad that you completely devalue your time when someone bought something without working for it. The option will always be there whether you like it or not so I guess you could say good-bye to Diablo 3 because your entire Diablo 3 play time and usage was devaulued because I traded something on the AH! Sorry for ruining your experience bro.
To point two Listen again, he doesn't say that there are going to be one harder to find he says (after saying that 6 Legs drop on average) that there are still going to be those items that you want to find and work for, we aren't making legendaries go out of style they'll still have worth and we aren't handing you them. So What he really meant was here's 6 perfectly good legendaries that you can use, and its 6 so out of the 100's of legendaries there are you have 6 and now you have to work as in keep playing to get the ones you wanted because you might not always get the ones you want first try or 4th try or millionth try for that matter.
If I come off like a dick I'm truly not trying to be. I just feel like if it bothers you that much your probably shouldn't play, and IF you really didn't care then it wouldn't devalue your experience at all. Just sayin'
Your first point is moot because sure they exist, and sure people use them but the majority of players do not. Most players don't run to D2jsp and start buying forum gold like candy and then getting items. It's a silly argument to make that everyone would do this practice just because the ah had the same fault, when in reality people would have to go out of their way to use d2jsp and most people wouldn't be comfortable using their money on a 3rd party site that isn't directly supported by Blizzard.
To the second point, as it stands every leg has an equal chance to drop. IF I'm not mistaken Legs currently work like this. Legendary drop rate is some arbitrary numebr and after that it has a 1/(However-many-gear-types-there-are) to be a certain gear type after which it has a 1/(how ever many legendaries for that gear type) to be the specific item. I'm almost positive there are no effective drop rates on a per item basis. Which could be another problem. And lastly, this point is also moot because they aren't striving for certain legs to be less useless or certain ones to be "top-tier" they have clearly stated numerous times they want every item to be a build changer, and make them all useful come endgame. This directly stands against what you said that certain ones won't drop as much because their current philosophy is to have every Legendary be equally as powerful as the last only in a different way. I.E Frostburns are great for Frost mages not so much for an CMWW mage, where as a Tasker and Theo might be more useful for the CMWW than the Frost Mage. It's not that anyone is "top-tier" or anyone is meant to be "better" per se but they both serve different purposes and its how well they serve the purpose that defines them as good or not.
There's a huge difference. When the drop chance is 1% everyone getting one, when its 0.0000001% barely anyones got one. With the removal of the AH they stepped in the right direction because it's not so readily available. Do you honestly think that every game you enter will just be 3 people standing in town spamming "JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!JALLALS FOR SOJ!" No The chances of you meeting those "millions of players" is very slim especially with a four person game. Remember we cant choose what game we join.If they added trading it adds some sort of availability, but its severely limited in that you'll never see whose got one. You may enter 50 games and never find the Soj or Jallals you are looking for, simple as that. Now with BoA you may never be able to get that item (IF THEY'D FIX THE DROP RATE)
I've also seen you argue this in posts before that we don't know how the drop rates are going to work and they wont be bad.... Well if you take all the Loot 2.0 details and think and compile them for a moment you'd realize the game is in a literally awful state right now. Think about how awesome every gear you saw was. Think about how badass they want to make legendaries. Then think about how many you find per act 3 run solo at p40? 6... In a 4 person co-op game that's 24 legendaries to split between you guys. Then if that holds true for all 5 acts, you're looking at almost 120 legendaries a game between four people. Since they'll all be so mighty and powerful cause your loot has to be meaningful you know, you will never need to play this game outside of a few months. The end will be there and you will have nothing to do. Literally nothing. There will again be no endgame. No cool content to continue through nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch NOTHING!
Well they reinforced that exact same thing at a panel at blizzcon. I remember hearing it again that, that was still the case. I mean come on 120 Legs per game between 4 people is absurd. Even you can see the inherent flaw in that number. I'm not one to usually bash Blizz but this is ridiculous.
And for arguments sake let's say they reduced that number. If their initial plan was 6 how far do you think they'd go down to... 3 Legs average act run? I mean there's a certain mentality you can see in their decision making here. They want it to rain from the sky. Otherwise they would've seen that average number and been like " OH FUCK NO! Too much gotta tone it down" Then gotten new data, instead they were like "Hey guys just a heads up Loot 2.0 gives you 6 legendaries on average in an act 3 run at P40 :D:D:D:D:D:D:D Pretty awesome huh?"
Ex: My Wiz is going to be a Frost Wiz come RoS. I already know because that's what I want. I want to use Sleet storm, Frozen Orb the Cold rune on the new skill, Blizzard, Ice Armor and hopefully they put in a frost generator, if not probably Shock pulse with the fire for some extra damage. So now that I know what I want I have to find items with the passives and stuff that will enable me to get alot of AP regen or APoC and alot of extra frost damage. If I never find Frostburns but find 10 IK gloves, is it so wrong for me to just say "hey can we trade?" It's not like I never worked for those 10 IK gloves I just simply was SOL when grinding. Hopefully they rectify both situations before release. I can't stand this extremity It'll literally kill the game.
Maybe Soulbound wont be so bad, but dear god that Legendary drop rate is TOO DAMN HIGH
Because I feel the whole reason they took the stance of soulbound legs, which I hate, is because they put the drop rate way too high, which I also hate. I feel like they said "let's throw legs at people", but then were like "oh shit man everyone's got everything in a few days because they all just traded the perf items they found to someone who needed that and that guy had the perf item they needed, so lets remove trading so they can't do that." So they soulbounded Legs because everyone was probably using perf legs and sets instead of rares and blues. This is a problem to me. It's a cheap way to escape having to actually fix a problem they have.
You can't argue 3 or 1 in my eyes 2 is possible but it needs restrictions. I mean 1 and 3 are just stupid to me. Why would you want to kill the item hunt, and then have soulbound legs its just retarded. The point of the legs dropping like crazy is so you can get them but I don't want that. I want to work for it. 3 is similarly stupid because if the legs drop like candy and they aren't soulbound then again you'll never need to play after a few days. 2 Is sorta weird in my opinion. 2 would make it REALLY hard to find gear, because now it isn't dropping and it isn't being traded so now you'll really need to invest thousands of hours to get them. I don't like this one just because it would make it too hard to find the leg. Option 4 though makes most sense to me. You can't find tons of Legs but hey you can trade for the one you want. It's not like everyone's going to have the item either. Just like you they are hunting for a good item as well and it should take time to find a good one, but if you can trade then the time you spent getting a Mempo wasn't a waste because someone elses equal time spent getting a Tals could mean you getting the tals and him getting the mempo.
Not true at all! Think about it. If Legs drop at 6 an act that's 120 Legs a game with 4 people to trade. Now I understand that this is why they probably took out trading. If you could trade and 120 Legs drop every 4 player game run then we'd be geared in a day or two. But if they reduce that amount to say 1-2 an act that puts us at around 20-40 a game run still significant but much less than before. Now say we reduce it to .5 or .25 now we're at 10 to 5 a game and now it's much harder to gear yourself but still POSSIBLE. With trading now we can get items but maybe they aren't for us so I can trade with another guy who has the item I want. I didn't work any less for this item than he did, I just got bad luck and that's all. There has to be a check on this bad luck factor. Or I might consistently get bad luck and just end up with 500 storm crows instead of the single Tals I needed. Where as with trading I could trade 50 of those storm crows for the Tals and be just as satisfied knowing I put in the hours to get legendaries but I was just unfortunate to not get the one I wanted.
They need to find a middle ground. Allow trading but make it hard to find Legendaries I don't want to see 120 drop in a game that's too ridiculous and literally kills the item hunt because there effectively is none, and it also makes people who'd like trading upset because now I can't trade and the people who want meaningful drops aren't getting them because there everywhere!
So what you're saying is that in the ten minutes you took to find some other arbitrary legendary that isn't for your class or maybe it is and doesn't fit your build, some other guy whose ten minutes spent playing the game also found him an arbitrary legendary that fits your build, and you wouldn't just wanna be like "Hey I spent time finding this POS i don't need but you do, and you found that POS you dont need but I do, wanna trade?"? I mean really the ridciulous amount of support for this is astounding. It's not anything about finding items. you want to find items look at what they've been saying cause apparently they're taking the worth out of finding items too, or did you miss the part whent hey said a normal solo Act 3 run at p40 got you 6 Legs, and that equates to a fullgame run of around 30 legs, and put that in co-op that's about 120 legs a game... and you still somehow feel that finding that leg is worth something and meaningful? Please don't even try to make an argument against that. because within a few days you'll be maxed out with nothing to do but jerkoff in a corner about how happy you are for finding that Legendary axe...
Yes the age of instant gratification in gaming is upon us. When people try to stop NO WE MUST HAVE MORE OF IT. SCREW TRADING JUST GIVE THE LEGENDARIES TO PEOPLE THEN REMOVE TRADING SO THAT THEY CAN'T INSTA-TRADE FOR THE ITEM THEY REALLY WANT! GENIUS!!! MORE TRICKERY TO MAKE THE MASSES FOLLOW US!
"Earn your loot" is just a bullshit excuse because if they really wanted you to earn your loot they wouldn't be fucking morons and say "On an average Act 3 run with P40 you get 6 [...6 ] Legendaries." WHO ON THEIR RIGHT MIND THOUGHT 6 LEGENDARIES PER RUN WAS A SMART MOVE AT ALL?!?! EARN YOUR GEAR? MORE LIKE HERE'S A FREE FUCKING HANDOUT! At first I thought this would be great, but now the more I think of it the worse this is becoming. Loot 2.0 is nothing more than a freebie to anyone who's going to play. The funny thing is that's according to a P40 what about when we get to P200 and above are we going to get a Leg per monster pack? 100 Legs a run? Come on It seems like they aren't even trying to balance the game, which is also another thing, looking at all these pics of new Legs and Sets, the range for primary stat was 750-900... ? why so damn high. I mean soon I'm going to have 7k main stat and just ROFLSTOMP MP10? 3k Damages? And in response to a question about big numbers and the over inflation of stats is there a problem with balance... and they laughed the question off and didn't give a fuck in the world.
I imagine their meeting went like this:
Josh: Hey guys I feel like there's not enough good drops what if we up their rate?
Travis: Sure sounds sweet we can put boss stats like 900 int on em too!
Josh: YEAH that's what I'm talking about DIABLO MAN!!!
A few hours later...
Josh: Travis, just played the game in a 4 man co-op for 3 hours ran through all acts, and i found the perfect set, all my gear is maxed. We need a solution to this, got any ideas?
Travis: Hmmmm....
Josh: hmmmm....
Travis: Disable trading?
Josh: PERFECT IDEA THIS WAY THEY CAN'T EASILY MAX UNLESS THEY DO IT THEMSELVES!
Travis: We can tell them it's cause we want them to earn their loot too so it doesn't seem like we're just covering up a bigger problem with our game!
I mean seriously the LOLZ i feel right now is immeasurable. The stupidity in this whole design is absolutely ridiculous. Can someone who actually understands a thing or two about how to balance an economy help them out. Please? before this game turns into everyone has 100% awesome perfecto gear
Yes 1-2 hours of people in your party, anyone else can downright go fuck themselves, because seriously trading ruins the game so fucking much that Blizzard said "FUCK IT TOO MUCH INSTA-GRATIFICATION NO TRADING" and then said "FUCK THESE PEOPLE"
Their reaction is like a childs, so far in one direction for no apparent reason. Worse is they really haven't done anything to explain themselves. IT's quite ridiculous if you ask me. They need to focus on solutions to bigger problems not forcing solutions upon us through shitty means. If they would've stopped and thought to themselves" Wow, well if we take out trading there really is no point in finding gear once you've found yours." or the better question "Why did we just take out trading of the only useful items in the game?"...
This is honestly the worst thing that could happen. Blizzard is taking a very dumb stance on this. Because of no trading drops have to be increased, or you'll never get your item... but then what's the point in hunting if I find my items daily? It kills the Loot hunt. So far Loot 2.0 is looking good but I'm hesitant to the supposed drop rates. Loot 2.0 is bringing with it better stat rolls useful secondary affixes, a major overhaul to stat ranges and better range of Legendaries throughout all LVL's of the game. This is all Perfect, but If we are spoonfed Legendaries then they become whites, they're all just flooding us and eventually we'll all be perfect rolled characters... Not entirely fun anymore. They need to look at drop rates keep em low maybe a slight bump not 6 Legendaries on an act 3 run with P40 maybe 1 or 2, and allow trading so you can overall get the same effect but everyone has to actually work for that effect. The way it is now I would just be seeing a golden beam every unique and that's just no fun either.