Meant no racism. I apologize. By what "we" believe, I assume you are referring to Christianity. IMO there are no real life entities as such in Bael and Mephistopheles.
By we I meant the Diablo community, and I was referring to the game characters
And no offence was taken.
Quote from "Mendeln" »
My point though was that 80% of the game is based on Judo-christian mythology and therefore was grounds for my information. Keep in mind, we are debating the strengths of video characters........ I'm not sure that this would be a subject worth Debating, maybe establishing opinions, but it IS a video game.
They are based off of them, but, their relationship does not seem to equal what you put forth. In the Sin War (spoiler) the Temple of the Truine shows an equality, and the Three, by all accounts, seem to rule Hell in a joint effort.
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The Three Prime Evils have NOTHING to do with the real life version of Satan/Lucifer7The Devil/whatever. They are based off of our beliefs, myths and stories, but they are not the same.
Elfen is really the expert here, but as far as we know, Diablo, Mephisto and Baal were spawned from the Black Abyss and are, for all intents and puposes, equal in rank. Diablo would lorewise appear to be the strongest, and Mephisto perhaps the most evil, as can be seen on Mount Arreat. Either way, any form of proof from real world christianity is useless in a debate over who would win. They're not the same.
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Which you base off of real world accounts. While Mephisto, Baal and Diablo are all based of real world stories and myths, they are not the same. While they may certainly provide ground for speculation, they have to yield to any in-game observations in the end.
And I'm not sure exacly where your points come from.
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Indeed, so he has to do it, with orders or not. Why such a waste for one's talents to do nothing? Mephisto acknowledges this from the quotes I have posted, thus seeming that he is leading the campaign
I agree with the first half of your post, but I disagree with the second part
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Or that Diablo is just merely the best suitable pawn for the task? Diablo is after all (from the game) physically adapt to command armies just like Mephisto and Baal, when Mephisto says:
"Send forth your Terror into Hell"
its a safe guess that Diablo is the best choice to put fear into his followers and lead them into battle
Exacly. Diablo is perhaps best suited for the task at hand, so he does it. Doesn't mean Mephisto is necessarily the leader.
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Umm, Mephisto clearly says for Diablo to enter hell:
Mephisto: Now my younger brother, it is time to assume your true form: Diablo, Lord of Terror!
-Diablo walks toward the hell portal and stops at the entrance looking back-
Mephisto: You are the harbringer of our return Diablo, send forth your Terror into Hell.
Not sure what you don't get about those quotes, Mephisto is clearly sending diablo into hell, "Send forth your Terror into Hell" really acknowledges this prediciment.
These are not, however, necessarily commands in the grand scheme of things.
Mephisto is still the host and his two brothers guest in his domain. It's quite impossible for us to speculate in what Prime Evil traditions there exist, but for practicalitys sake (and the Three are very practical) it is, as I pointed out earlier, smatest if the one with the greatest knowledge in the current situation leads, which in this case is Mephisto since they're in his Durance.
Before Mephisto states the first quote, they've all three aided each other in opening the portal. Once again judging from the cinematic, it seems Mephisto leads the ritual. Thus, he is in charge. When he is done, he signals this by asking Diablo to shift form, thus moving on to the next phase of their visit.
Quote from "XxL2PxX" »
Mephisto: You are the harbringer of our return Diablo, send forth your Terror into Hell.
First of all, Mephisto says "You are the harbinger of OUR return" This signals equality between the Three.
The secnd part is more of a finishing line, or encouragement if you will. Like an athlete preparing for competition and friends or relatives boosting his confidence.
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A gathering of all three Prime Evils is rare, when they were banished they went on their own seperate ways, Mephisto - Kurast, Baal - Desert, Diablo - Tristram. SO if they were to gather, which they did, it must have been some kind of ultimate purpose. This purpose being I believe a plan set into motion when they were first banished, led by Mephisto himself
Or just some kind of purpose that would require all of them, perhaps such as opening a portal into Hell.
This plan you speak of could indeed exist, but I still don't get what you have to support Mephisto being the leader except that they did go to Travincal and not the other way around.
I don't know to what extent Mephisto could have left his Durance, but I do know Baal couldn't really move, so it was up to Diablo to fix things once he broke free. Baal was the closest to him, so naturally he went therey first, joined up with Baal, and continued to Kurast. That's why they gathered there, most likely in order to open the portal into Hell, since clearly Diablo leaves afterwards, so no massive plan could have taken place there.
They could have gone through the plan before opening the portal. However, Mephisto clearly greets both Baal and Diablo in the beginning of the cinematic, indicating that they have not seen each other for very long. Thus I do not know when this plan would have been excecuted, and where Mephisto fits in as the leader.
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What I've said was that why would Diablo after freeing Baal travel into Kurast to visit Mephisto, this being at the end of Act 2 cinematic. Yes they've been in Kurast but the question is why?
Why? They wish to be reuinited so they can once again spread chaos.
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Last time i checked Diablo just finished off Tristram and Baal was still in Tal'Rasha. Mephisto was probally already free from his soulstone, so why would Diablo after rescuing Baal go to Mephisto? My opinion is that Mephisto devised the plan before the Horadrim sealed them in the soulstones.
Um, what? You have so far, as I understand it, based your opinion on the games alone. As such, any conclusion you've drawn about Mephisto being the leader must have been derived from somewhere within the game.
In the fourth cinematic, we see Diablo, Baal and Mephisto all gathered in the Durance of Hate, which lies below Kurast. There, Mephisto assumes the position of leader, since he does most of the speaking and can be interpreted as "ordering" Diablo into Hell.
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Judginf from Game lore, Mephisto seems to be the wisest, after all he did plan out the whole epic but inevitable takeover of the Sanctuary didnt he?
I'd say it's not clear at all who is the mastermind judging from the game. I think Mephisto simply led the Three at that point because they were in Kurast, his realm of corruption. The minions were his, he knew the temples, how everything worked etc, so naturally they followed him. Doesn't mean they're less than his equal though.
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Now if it were armies led by the three Primes, Mephisto would probally win this too, using strategy and tactics to outmanuver the counterpart armies. Diablo would probally just charge head on, while Mephisto and Baal gather up and siege
Probably not. In the books, the servants of Mephisto were the most reckless, Malic was just ordered to keep blasting Uldyssian time and again, and never succeeded. Astrogah on the other hand was a servant of Diablo and much more sneaky. Diablo stayed in the shadows all the time. He is equally as smart as his elder brother, as is Baal. There's no way you can rule Hell and foil Heaven for close to an eternity without brains.
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Yes, I took the fast running (legs and arms) into account, but honestly: have you taken Baal's tentacles into effect? Yes, Diablo can easily rip them apart, but it will be enough time for Mephisto and/or Baal to double their damage at the beginning of the fight. Then again, this assuption is based on if Diablo was the first target in the fight. Baal might be able to hold his own for a while on 2v1 and we all know that Mephisto will be ripped to shreds 2v1.
Well if we put tactics into the equation, there'd be no fight at all, for none of them would ever attack the other. So far as we've seen, there's never been an indication that there's any form of in-fighting between the Three, and even if there was, none of them would be foolish enough to rush into combat head on with each other.
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Diablo is the TANK
Baal is the DOTTER (Damage Over Time)
Mephisto is the ARTILLERY
My opinion would be between Baal and Mephisto, both do range damage and can probally take Diablo down by attacking from afar despite Diablo's Fire Nova. Baal will try to use range and timing to his advantage (Clone, Tentacle, ETC) while Mephisto on the other hand would use Pure Damage. Between the two, its a matter of chance and focus, If Mephisto manages to use all his power on the original Baal (with clone), Baal's dead, however if he attack the clone, then Mephisto is dead.
Except Diablo is one hell of a fast runner, and neither of the two have any close range attacks that can stand up to his Red Lightning Hose. Given the amoun tof life that all three have, it doesn't matter if either Mephisto or Baal manage to blast Diablo like hell for a few seconds before he closes up, he will still be able to take them down.
However, judging this from a lore perspective, it's much harder to say, and I don't think we'll ever see enough of the Three in order to make a definite judgment of the situation. Since Diablo has been stated as being the strongest however, I'd go with him even there as of now.
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And no offence was taken.
They are based off of them, but, their relationship does not seem to equal what you put forth. In the Sin War (spoiler) the Temple of the Truine shows an equality, and the Three, by all accounts, seem to rule Hell in a joint effort.
Elfen is really the expert here, but as far as we know, Diablo, Mephisto and Baal were spawned from the Black Abyss and are, for all intents and puposes, equal in rank. Diablo would lorewise appear to be the strongest, and Mephisto perhaps the most evil, as can be seen on Mount Arreat. Either way, any form of proof from real world christianity is useless in a debate over who would win. They're not the same.
And I'm not sure exacly where your points come from.
Mephisto is still the host and his two brothers guest in his domain. It's quite impossible for us to speculate in what Prime Evil traditions there exist, but for practicalitys sake (and the Three are very practical) it is, as I pointed out earlier, smatest if the one with the greatest knowledge in the current situation leads, which in this case is Mephisto since they're in his Durance.
Before Mephisto states the first quote, they've all three aided each other in opening the portal. Once again judging from the cinematic, it seems Mephisto leads the ritual. Thus, he is in charge. When he is done, he signals this by asking Diablo to shift form, thus moving on to the next phase of their visit.
First of all, Mephisto says "You are the harbinger of OUR return" This signals equality between the Three.
The secnd part is more of a finishing line, or encouragement if you will. Like an athlete preparing for competition and friends or relatives boosting his confidence.
This plan you speak of could indeed exist, but I still don't get what you have to support Mephisto being the leader except that they did go to Travincal and not the other way around.
I don't know to what extent Mephisto could have left his Durance, but I do know Baal couldn't really move, so it was up to Diablo to fix things once he broke free. Baal was the closest to him, so naturally he went therey first, joined up with Baal, and continued to Kurast. That's why they gathered there, most likely in order to open the portal into Hell, since clearly Diablo leaves afterwards, so no massive plan could have taken place there.
They could have gone through the plan before opening the portal. However, Mephisto clearly greets both Baal and Diablo in the beginning of the cinematic, indicating that they have not seen each other for very long. Thus I do not know when this plan would have been excecuted, and where Mephisto fits in as the leader.
In the fourth cinematic, we see Diablo, Baal and Mephisto all gathered in the Durance of Hate, which lies below Kurast. There, Mephisto assumes the position of leader, since he does most of the speaking and can be interpreted as "ordering" Diablo into Hell.
So obviously they've been in Kurast.
However, judging this from a lore perspective, it's much harder to say, and I don't think we'll ever see enough of the Three in order to make a definite judgment of the situation. Since Diablo has been stated as being the strongest however, I'd go with him even there as of now.