I'm pretty confident in that Malthael knew it was Tyrael.
That, I can't say for sure. I mean, all of our encounters with Tyrael as an angel has been with his hood up. We never even saw his face. So is his current face that which was under the hood or do angels even have faces? Cause all the other angels besides Imperius have hoods and we don't even see a head nor eyes under those hoods. And even for Imperius, we don't see his face. Just his helm on top of a black, thing. Though he could have noticed it was Tyrael if what he saw resembled the Tyrael he knew. But I still think he just sensed it was an angel type soul. And that's why he left him alone.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Malthael did not just abstain because he was not wise enough to decide. He abstain because he did not care. At least this is what he said and what's written. Malthael first purpose is not hunting down the Nephalems. Remember that the event that really mattered to Malthael is the destruction of the world stone. This is what drove him crazy. This is where he started all is wondering thinking about the meaning of life and death. He did not give a fuck about Nephalems.
Malthael was first interested in getting his hands on the black soul stone. Why? He wants some sort of power in order to achieve something. That something is presumed to be righteous intent since El'druin passed trough him.
Malthael then goes wandering about collecting the essences of demons, angels and the living things upon sanctuary. What will happen when all Angels and demons will be trapped into the black soulstone? Seems to me like the essence of Anu and Tathamet being reunited. Will the black soul stone form the pearl that was once at the beginning of all time?
Now, this is what you find on Wiki when you search for Anu:
Made of shining diamond. Anu was the sum of all things: good and evil, light and dark, physical and mystical, joy and sadness—all reflected across the crystalline facets of its form. And, within its eternal dream-state, Anu considered itself—all of its myriad facets. Seeking a state of total purity and perfection, Anu cast all evil from itself. All dissonance was gone. But what of the cast-off aspect of its being? The dark parts, the sharp, searing aspects of hate and pridefulness? Those could not remain in a state of separation, for all things are drawn to all things. All parts are drawn to the whole. Those discordant parts assembled into the Beast-the Dragon. Tathamet was his name-and he breathed unending death and darkness from his seven devouring heads. The Dragon was solely composed of Anu's cast-off aspects. The end sum of the whole became a singular Evil- the Prime Evil, from which all the vileness would eventually spread throughout existence.
The diamond warrior and the seven-headed dragon proved to be the equal of the other, neither ever gaining the upper hand in their fierce and unending combat-till at last, their energies nearly spent after countless millennia of battle, the two combatants delivered their final blows. The energies unleashed by their impossible fury ignited an explosion of light and matter so vast and terrible that it birthed the very universe all around us.
Now, once again, i will ask you guys, what will happen if Malthael successfully traps all aspects, dark and light? Will it result in the creation of a new universe? Malthael became a madmen because of the world stone. He probably found the way to feed his needs. If Malthael was to revive the worldstone or a new universe, this would definitely be something that we could call righteous intents. I believe that Malthael is still haunted by the world stone and all his actions are driven by that. Why Malthael did not appeared earlier in the story? Seems to me like he appeared not long after the black soulstone was retrieved.
Where do you get this connection of him not carrying? Also, he was shrinking into darkness before the worldstone's desctruction. It was after that when he left the High Heavens. Also, if he wanted to trap every angel and demon in the stone, why did he leave Tyreal? Malthael sensed that he was not mortal, he most likely knew that he was actually a fallen angel. Though I doubt he knew that it was in fact, Tyrael. And also, if he did trap every angel and demon, who would be able to control the Soulstone to create a new universe? As we have already seen, the Lords of Hell can hardly be contained in the stone. So all of the Archangels being in it as well could quite possibly destroy it.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Also.. if Maltheal aim in RoS is to kill all Nephalem I don't understand.
If he wanted to do that then wouldn't he have voted against letting Sanctuary exist when the Angris council decided?
It's because he did not know what to do during the voting hence he was said to have went mad. He reappears now maybe because he finally has an answer.
I was kinda thinking along the same lines. Malthael didn't vote because he was not sure what was the right choice. There was just not enough facts present to him to make up his mind. However, I think he saw how corruptable we were and that the Primes were trying to use us as weapons that he decided to kill us. Makes sense to me. But that's just me.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
I am going to be blatantly honest .. a prophecy is like a horoscope.
People are going to interpret the events that have happened as the prophecy being fulfilled. It is subjective validation.. especially since a lot of the lines are a stretch to have been fulfilled.
'wisdom shall be lost' = 'Maltheal isn't around and no-one knows where he is'... really .. 'lost' could mean anything but everyone was 'choosing' to think it means 'absent' (at the time of D3 release), and now after RoS announcement people are choosing to think it means that he was 'lost' to darkness and became Death.
If Maltheal has been the angel of Wisdom for eternity then he better not have some dumb motive to do what he is doing... surely he would have heard about 'the prophesy' too.. surely he should be smarter than everyone...
I am going to go with the idea that I think the prophecy is a crock of shit.. (created by Beliel haha.. just kidding, Beliel sucks at lying)
There is never an End of Days.. time is infinite and the prophecy sounds like it comes from collective simple minds who think time must have a Start and End point.
Yeah, it is like a horoscope. I mean, almost every word as multiple means. But I feel we will get no where on furthing a solid theory until the Book of Tyreal is released. So once I move into my new place and get all my shit figured out, that book if being preordered.
However, going all paradoxy on time, I think you're wrong. Time it self is deemed as infinite. But one's time is seen as a finite number. Something that has to end. And that might be what the title, End of Days, is refering to. That it is the End of Days for the Nephalem. Potentially Angels. But definitely for the Nephalem. But once again, going all horoscopes on this.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
The other thing I want to add is that I think it was always highly presumptuous for Tyreal to call himself 'Wisdom'
I think that Maltheal IS STILL WISDOM and at the End of this expansion (RoS) he 'will be lost' and then the prophecy will really begin!
I also think that 'FATE lies shattered forever' will actually refer to Nephalems having free will...
I don't think it was Itherael that wrote the prophecy. He is not known for interacting with mortals. Also, and this is pure speculation, I don't think he could even see Tyrael falling. Cause he can not see the fate of the Nephalem, he could not see Tyrael choosing to become a mortal nor any of his interactions with them. So who is the person that made the prophecy? I don't know. I may reread, again, the Book of Cain and see if it is mentioned in there, but I think this needs to be addressed.
And onto Tyrael. I think him proclaiming that he was Wisdom was more of something to say he is done being Justice. As Justice is a very fine line, especially because one person's justice is different from anothers, it is probably the hardest one to follow. However, it was Tyraels wisdom that helped the Nephalem seal the Prime Evils in the first place and it was even his Wisdom that saved us back in Lord of Destruction and helped us save the day in D3. Cause if the Worldstone was not destroyed, regardless of whether it was still corrupted or not, the Nephalem would not be as powerful as they are now, making it harder to even kill Super-Diablo. (P.S. I like the term Super-Diablo for his incarnation from the power of all Lords of Hell. There is probably no greater term besides this to describe him.)
I think that Malthael is really death. I think it was in Athene's interview that Josh acolyte(can't remember is name) said that Malthael was death.
I think that Malthael is seeking the same power Kule was seeking from the black soulstone. He might want to infuse the power of the soulstone (after trapping as many soul as he can) to make himself a god of death. I think that "fate lies shattered forever" refers to the black soul stone being shattered and thus putting an end to the possibility of trapping the demons soul anymore.
Malthael not being Death was just speculation. As of now, I actually still side with it. Granted, somethings with the original theory are already proven wrong. But I could easily change those suspisions into others that would still fit in with the new information given. And with him trying to use the Soulstone to become Death. I don't really see how that would fit. I mean, it would be a cool theory to speculate on. But becoming a god, and especially one that could kill anything, seems more selfish than searching for more power to destroy and nephalem and restore balance. The major thing is, he supposedly has Righteous Intent. Now whether that is based on what he believes or something that, at some angles, can be seen as Righteous, who knows?
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
I was thinking that Malthael is actually just a minion of the Blood God whom is mentioned in the books and was rumored to be the big bad of Diablo 3 like 11 years ago.
Edit
As someone pointed out, how could Maltheal find the Black Soulstone, especially so fast? I believe that Tathamet was the one that told him. Not that Tathamet knew the location before Tyreal and the Horadrim decided on it but that Tathamet can sense the power from it like someone knows where their arm is. That power, the Lords of Hell, are a part of Tathamet so the ability to find where it is does not seem unbelievable. And so I think Tathamet knew that it was going to be placed in Sactuary, probably general location due to the travel to the location was going to be long, so he had Maltheal follow the Stone to where we see in the Cinematic and then we get what we saw.
Thanks you for reading my speculation. If you have any opinions or maybe want to add further, please do so. I look forward to the Reaper of Souls and learning more about what is to come in the Future of Sanctuary.
One other thing I would like to point out, he is still Wisdom, so I would still say he is smarter than every other angel, he knew where they would hide it, and followed Tyrael.
Well, with the new info posted about the expansion, it is said that he no longer carries his chalice. While the chalice didn't help him too much with his wisdom, it was still symbolic of him. I feel ditching that showed that he gave up being Wisdom. But the only book I have read is the Book of Cain, so who is this Blood God you speak of?
And, at the End of Days, Wisdom shall be lost
as Justice falls upon the world of men.
Valor shall turn to Wrath
and all Hope will be swallowed by Despair.
Death, at last, shall spread its wings over all
as Fate lies shattered forever.
so this is how i look at it, most of it happened already.
Wisdom shall be lost. Malthael left.
Justice falls. Tyrael = falling star.
Valor turns to wrath. Imperius became wrathful towards Nephalem. (hmmmmmm????)
Hope swallowed by Despair. Auriel = captured by Rakanoth = Lord of Despair
Death spreads wings. Malthael (possibly corrupted? but was he? remember that wrathful guy????) Angel of death.
Fate lies shattered. Itherael... they're coming for him, why? who knows. Imperius seems to be the culprit to me. perhaps he's the reason why Malthael became Death. hence why his endevours seem just. Fate is blind to nephalem.
figure, maybe you'll sacrifice yourself in the end? nephalem alike.
Maybe imperius wants the black soulstone? maybe he knew where it was going to go. maybe he recruited Malthael, maybe that's why hes "corrupt." it seems the idea here is that all angels will fall... Maltheal left, tyrael shed his wings, imperius became wrathful, it appears hope will be all that remains. i'm thinking your goal is to save Itherael..
we won't know til it comes out, and i'm certainly one person that can't wait...
I think that Imperius has not succumbed to Wrath. I feel that what we saw in Vanilla was his pride, taking hold. He was too proud as an angel and as Valor to get help from, what he believed, a lesser race. I think his attitude is different torwards the Nephalem now. And Fate being shattered would need some HUGE event that was not forseen by Itherael. The Nephalem was huge, but I think he can still see the future of the Angels. But I agree, can't wait for the game to release. Will pre-order that CE and hope for a Midnight Release in my area.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
At the end of the cinematic, Tyrael says to Malthael: "The Nephalem...will...stop YOU!" and Malthael responds: "No one...can stop...DEATH!" which implies that Malthael is indeed the personified Death, if you will.
My theory is that Malthael is not the Death that is referenced in the Prophecy. He most likely is, cause Blizzard has used Death so much to describe him. But I am firmly keeping my Tin Foil Hat on till RoS is out!
But Diablo said "Not even death can save you from me!" So we all know Malthael's schemes will go awry.
Diablo is just being his cocky self. Not really wanting to admit defeat. But we already know Malthael's plan will go somewhat awry. Just like how Diablo's plan went somewhat awry.
But I can't wait till it is out to learn more of what happened and etc. I know some people disliked the story of vanilla, but I loved it. That is the main reason why I am back here with my crazy theories!
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
An interesting observation I've read is that Tyrael's sword, El'druin, passes straight through Malthael. It is said in the Book of Cain that El'druin cannot harm anyone or thing of righteous intent. Just something to think about.
I saw that too. But I also thought up a couple more theories on that but with the recent info of his actions being Justifiable, it means that they are both wrong. However, I have a new theory on how Malthael may have fallen. So bear with me on this.
So after the Sin War, we know that the Angels voted on whether to destroy the Nephalem or not. Tyreal voted no with a 3-1 vote. However, I think the reason why Malthael abstained from the vote was because he did not know them well enough. Later, during the Mage Clan Wars, I believe Malthael was watching the Nephalem to get a grasp on their motives, life style, and whether they were powerful. But what he saw instead was destruction. They slaughtered each other and even innocent people. Even when Horazon and Bartuc battled, they themselves destroyed a city and kill hundreds of thousands. Malthael saw all that he needed and regretted his decision to abstain. He then decided that he would try to learn their future.
However, Fate can't see the future of the Nephalem, so he went about finding out a different way. During that time he spent looking for another way to see the future, the Dark Exile happened and everything Tyreal did was still kept in shadows because Malthael stopped watching the Nephalem. At least until he heard tale about the Sightless Eye. The Sightless Eye is a mirror that can reportedly pecieve the future. It is probably the one item in existance that can tell the future of the Nephalem. According to the Book of Cain, the Sisterhood of the Sightless Eye stole it from their homeland and fled to the Eastgate Keep. That is where they set up their new group. And its whereabouts are currently unknown to Cain, so I think it was take as well. I believe that in between The Sisterhood moving there and Andariel taking over the Sisterhood, is when the Sightless Eye was taken.
I think Malthael took it. He ended up seeing the future of the Nephalem. He saw the destruction of the Worldstone, and fate of the land that the Stone inhabited, and I believe he even saw the corruption of the High Heavens and the Nephalem there as well. But he also saw that Diablo had invaded. Now at the time, he did not believe what he saw was true. But when the Worldstone was destroyed, Malthael understood that what he saw was true. So he left the High Heavens, to search for a way to stop the next vision. What happened during those 20 years of absence, no one knows. But I believe his new power was a means to try to defend the High Heavens. However, he could not.
And when the High Heavens were attacked, he also saw what happened, hiding in the shadows. And the death of Diablo was probably the biggest thing that he saw. He didn't see it happen in the Eye but with his own. He then realized how powerful the Black Soulstone was, and the Nephalem themselves. Believing that they were too dangerous to be kept alive, he decided to destroy Sanctuary. And quite possibly with the Black Soulstone. Why not take care of two birds with one Soulstone? So I think he will try to destroy the Soulstone along with Sanctuary. And that is why it is believed that his actions are Justifiable. And also why he didn't kill Tyreal, because he sensed that he was still part angel.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Why would Death want to bring Tathamet? he doesn't want to destroy the heavens otherwise Tyrael would be in pieces right now.
I was thinking earlier about my hypothesis that Malthael wants to do to the Angiris Council what happened to the Prime Evils; have them all absorbed -- perhaps into the Black Soulstone, which can conveniently house Angels as well -- to restore balance. Perhaps that would mean Tyrael himself will be the cause of the End since, having given up his Angelic powers, his Aspect cannot be absorbed into the Black Soulstone to make it whole.
But what would happen if it were whole? Anu/Tathamet? Or would it completely cancel out the Prime Evils, stopping their cycle of carnage forever? If so, that could mean Tyrael is involved in the End of Days. Such a grim and ironic tragedy would be a fitting ending, I think, to the Diablo saga.
Quick Edit: Two things I noticed while rewatching the cinematic. One, it looks like Tyrael is hiding the Black Soulstone in a temple beneath a marshland. Sound familiar? Necromancers, anyone?
Also, when Malthael begins to reap Tyrael's soul, he watches it flow into his sickle, then abruptly looks at Tyrael (in surprise?) and casts him away, sparing him. Maybe he WAS trying to absorb his angelic essence and found it useless since Tyrael didn't have any?
Oh you and your Necromancers! When are y'all gonna learn to not play with Death? Serious time now. So I don't know what Malthael saw in Tyreal's soul, but I think it was something huge that even he could not deal with. Otherwise, why would he spare him? Past feelings, maybe. But he killed others without a doubt yet let Tyrael live.
Second, which lends credit to both my Tathamet theory and the Trag'Oul Theory is that on one of the Blizzard posts, there is a line that is interesting.
Shrouded in mystery and imbued with a power as ancient as the universe itself,
That there can support both. Tathamet is known to be as old as the universe but Trag'Oul can almost be described in the same way. For it is said that he is is a celestial dragon whose body resembles a constellation of stars. That can easily be interpreted at him being as old as the universe.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
There is so much we don't know. I still feel that the final boss for the Trilogy will be Tathamet. I mean, why would Blizzard go into the origins of EVERYTHING on Diablo Universe right before the final game? Maybe Maltheal doesn't just want to reborn Tathamet and Anu but reform them back into Anu's original form? But, maybe, there being some corruption still in the Crystal Arch, that would create a more powerful but also more evil Anu?
Well the theory is good but I do not think Tathamet could be involved in this way.
It wouldn't make sens that Tathamet would have survived and not anu.
The 7 prime heads were Tathamet as the crystal arch was the spin of Anu (if i'm right it's the spine...)
and the archangels and all other angels comes from this spine.
Everything is balanced and if it wouldn't have been so, we can bet that at some point during the eternal conflit that lasted for some millenar, the demons would have done something.
The prophecy (which I was sure would involve Malthael as the archangel of death) has two important parts.
To me, this ".. , at last, .." isn't nothing. We can trust blizzard to put comma at some very specific place.
It sounds as we were waiting for something. Which could mean (as you pointed out) that Malthael was indeed waiting for the fall of the prime evil that he probably had forsee. Also, the wings which were the main way to think of Malthael are not tied to Tathamet.
As you pointed, "in our own lore dragon have wings"
True, in OUR lore. Trag'Oul doesn't and from the ... small picture we have of tathamet he doesn't seem to have wings. So far, the only things with wings are "Angels" (and some crappy flying demons).
We had a small preview of Malthael skill capabilities in the Wrath animated video. So far, it didn't seem to be able to sucks people soul. So this is indeed a new power.
Some people wonder if Trag'Oul could be involved.
It would highly depend of what Malthael intend to do with the BS. (sounds funny)
If it implies balance that has been shattered by the end of the 7 primes: Yes, probably.
if it doesn't implie balance: Then probly not.
Trag'Oul only purpose is to keep balance, and death and destruction are part of that balance.
In the book of cain (if I'm right) Cain said that when Demons and angel tried to build their own personnal universe they simply collapsed. They couldn't exist. The only was that succesfully existed is "Sanctuary" because it is made of both angels and demons.
Right now, demons have been vanquished and I remember that somewhere Cain said that even if human were to face all demons, it would be just the beggining has he feared what angel would do once demons would be gone.
We are at this point, what angels will do as there's no more demons?
This is where, probably, Valor shall turn to Wrath and so on
And this is maybe, what Malthael is trying to do, restor balance, restore the demons. He was wisdom right? (plz don't say Tyrael is wisdom). If Malthael was wise enough he knew that without demons creation wouldn't make sens. The destruction of the worldstone meant Nephalem could get their power back. Which implied that at some point demons could have their but kicked, which could break the balance. Maybe this is what starting to make darken his mood.
He probly discovered Trag'Oul (or have been contacted by him) to set the plan in motion.
But Trag'Oul MUST have been the one acting because otherwise, we can bet that at least one Necromancer in sanctuary would have noticed that Trag'Oul was gone.
So, in short, Malthael is in fact Death, and he may be working with Trag'Oul to restore the balance whihc has been destroyed by the demon's fall.
As I've said before, I don't believe Trag'Oul is involved. He wants balance but not at the cost of history repeating itself. He wont release the Evils unless he can prevent their power from grouping up like it currently is. Plus Maltheal was becoming more dark even before the destruction of the Worldstone. Why was he turning like that? As he has given up his mantel of Wisdom, he has fallen but differently from Tyreal. And that absence of twenty years only leads to more speculation of him becoming corrupt. I can only seen him being corrupted by a being that is either stronger then him or even older than him. Which is why I still believe Tathamet is involved.
Because of how strong and dangerous the Black Soulstone is, it had to be locked away. But the uses I see for it are pretty limited. He could try to use that power for his own but he might lose himself further. He could release the Evils but then we would be right were we started. Kinda a slap in the face from Blizz. The only other use I can see is trying to resurrect something that has long thought been dead. Which Tathamet would be perfect. The big, bad evil. A great way to end this story in my opinion. But we will have to wait and see.
And Cain's comment on Angels was based on the information that Tyreal gave him. Many angel, including Imperius, despised the Nephalem because they were unnatural. The offspring of both Angels and Demons. Even that unnatural event has cause Fate to see less of the future, because the Nephalem are involved in the future. Cain feared that if Angels won, they would set their eyes on the Nephalem and get rid of the unnatural race. But with the Nephalem having saved the High Heavens, I no longer believe that to be the case.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Cause if all evil needed to be used for Tathamet to be awakened, then that would also include the Nephalem who embody both Good and Evil. But if we are thought of as offsprings of them, then the Nephalem would not be necassary to create him. But I understand where you are coming from. This whole, One guy spawns all bad, one guy spawns all good, is really confusing.
Which is exactly why Tathamet won't ever exist again. Furthermore hell was created by his body, which also means that hell would have to cease to exist if he was to reappear. If that includes nephalem and/or all lesser demons doesn't matter that much. I really think Tathamet reappearing would just be waaay too complicated and far off to actually ever happen.
But what about his mind? What his Tathamet's mind wasn't destroyed and sent off with Anu? What if it is somehow still around, and only that could be used to pretty much recreate him, the missing link to the strength of evil? I don't think it would be too complicated. I feel it would really drive home the fact that the Nephalem are the strongest creatures in Creation. We can take on Angels, Demons, and even Gods themselves.
That seems like a good theory but I feel it is outside of Trag'Oul's self. Reasoning being is that he has defended Sanctuary against both Heaven and Hell.
No, you're totally right. I can still see some Priests of Rathma allying themselves with Malthael in the misguided belief that preserving the Balance means serving the role of evil. At the same time though, Necromancers are supposedly the least corruptible of all the Nephalem. So might that mean that Malthael may actually not be doing something fundamentally wrong? Might he, indeed, be striking a balance in some way we don't yet know about that we will prevent, spelling the end of Sanctuary? That might mean the Nephalem themselves are bringing about the end.
Us causing the End of Days? Brilliant! What we might think is just simple defense against Corrupted Angles and Demons is in fact the cause of the world to end. But I feel we are missing a huge piece to Malhael. What happened to him during those 20 years after the destruction of the Worldstone? If we can learn that before the expansion comes out, than maybe we can get a better grasp on his true intentions.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Tathamet = The Prime Evil, which is currently stored in the black soulstone.
Or do you think it was some sort of fake prime evil we defeated in act 4?
What we defeated was Diablo. Just a more powerful Diablo then we have encountered previously. Despite having all the Lords of Hell residing in one stone, Diablo still was only able to use his abilities when we fought him. Being he was the dominate personality in the Black Soulstone, Diablo controlled their strength but I feel he did not control their power. That is why I believe that Tathamet may still be alive. Only he alone can control all of the Lords of Hell and their powers.
We agree that the Prime Evil in the end of act 4, wasn't really THE tathamet, but pretty damn close considering he contained the essences of all 7 lords of hell.
However, Tathamet is EVEYRTHING evil put together into one body, so he essentially can't exist with all the lords of hell inside the black soulstone. The lords of hell was spawned by the death of tathamet, and is essentially part of him. So if what you're saying is true we would actually have 2x diablo, 2x mephisto, 2x andariel etc. etc. if he died again. That really doesn't make sense to me.
Do you get it? Tathamet is pretty much half the universe. The half that is evil. So if anything evil besides tathamet exists, he himself can't fully exist.
Think about it this way. The Seven Lords of Hell are a part of Tathamet himself. However, all the other demons and such we are accustomed to now are the offspring of them. So the kids of Tathamet would not be required to complete him, but his main parts are. That is at least how I percieve it. Cause if all evil needed to be used for Tathamet to be awakened, then that would also include the Nephalem who embody both Good and Evil. But if we are thought of as offsprings of them, then the Nephalem would not be necassary to create him. But I understand where you are coming from. This whole, One guy spawns all bad, one guy spawns all good, is really confusing.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Instead of Tathamet, I wonder if Death my refer instead to Trag'Oul, the symbol of the Necromancers? Like Tathamet, Trag'Oul is depicted as a large, dragon-like creature with sweeping wings. The Necromancers act to preserve balance in the world, but with the Burning Hells broken, anything resembling balance has been destroyed. Malthael may seek to unleash the Prime Evils to restore the Balance on Trag'Oul's behalf.
That seems like a good theory but I feel it is outside of Trag'Oul's self. Reasoning being is that he has defended Sanctuary against both Heaven and Hell. And the balancing out seems like the perfect solution, except that the only way he would release the Lords of Hell back into the world is if he can guarantee that the Black Soulstone incident can't happen again. Cause next time, one of them could become more powerful than a Nephalem and spell the end of Creation as we know it. But maybe Trag'Oul got corrupted? All we know of is the High Heavens, Burning Hells, and Sanctuary in this universe. Who's not to say that there might be some dark creature from another world that wants to use it for their own good?
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Tathamet = The Prime Evil, which is currently stored in the black soulstone.
Or do you think it was some sort of fake prime evil we defeated in act 4?
What we defeated was Diablo. Just a more powerful Diablo then we have encountered previously. Despite having all the Lords of Hell residing in one stone, Diablo still was only able to use his abilities when we fought him. Being he was the dominate personality in the Black Soulstone, Diablo controlled their strength but I feel he did not control their power. That is why I believe that Tathamet may still be alive. Only he alone can control all of the Lords of Hell and their powers.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
With the introduction to the new expansion, we all know that Maltheal is alive. Now, I doubt he has retained his role of Wisdom but looks to have potentially gained some new powers. If they are new, we don't know. For his way of combat have not been recorded for us to confirm. However, it is rampant speculation that Maltheal has taken up the mantle of Death. I do not believe this is true.
Why don't I find this true? Well the first part is the name of the Expansion, Reaper of Souls. While Death does reap souls, he is not the only one. Death has given the power of reaping to his minions so that he doesn't always has to do the job. And I feel Maltheal is in that position. He is not Death, but in fact a lieutenant or general of the real Death. Absurd, I know. An Archangel becoming a minion of someone else? Wont happen! But I feel it did.
Even if you don't agree, hear me out. So why would Wisdom fall and instead becoming a minion? And who would be able to take up the role of Death if not Maltheal? Well, the later I will start first and it will lead to why I believe Wisdom fell. But who could be Death if not Maltheal? I'm glad you asked. I believe it is Tathamet.
WHAT? HOW? WHY? I know, I know. Also seems absurd. However, I will point back to the prophecy of the End of Days.
And, at the End of Days, Wisdom shall be lost
as Justice falls upon the world of men.
Valor shall turn to Wrath
and all Hope will be swallowed by Despair.
Death, at last, shall spread its wings over all
as Fate lies shattered forever.
I feel the prophecy has actually not been fulfilled yet. I will argue that Valor has not turned to Wrath, but instead was consumed by Pride when he ignored help and denounced Tyreal. And Fate, is currently not shattered. Sure he can't see the future of the Nephalem, and I doubt he could see Maltheal falling, but what is the one thing that could cause Fate to be shattered forever? The rise of Tathamet. Which is where my second point lies. In the Book of Cain, it is said,
the Dragon, Tathament was his name - and he breathed unending death and darkness from his seven devouring heads.
Sure, the term is ambiguous, but it fits. A dragon, based on most of our own lore, has wings. But it also explains why Maltheal took the Black Soulstone. Because Tathamet needs it. Because Tathamet is actually not dead.
Tathamet not dieing would mean that there is a being more powerful than any in the plane of Creation. But he was not, because the Lords of Hell were his power. So he was weakened, so even Wisdom should have been able to kill him. However, I feel Maltheal was also weakened. It was said that his mood was darkening before he left. I think he found something. Something that proved that Tathamet was alive. And Anu was in fact, dead. The savior of the Angels, Anu. Learning that his greatest feat had in fact never happened would seem to be a crushin blow to Wisdom. Someone who is supposed to know many things would start to question if one thing was false, how many other things are false as well. So we went to search for Tathamet after the destruction of the Worldstone and had in fact found him. Just the confirmation of him being alive shattered Maltheal, allowing Tathamet to corrupt him and use him.
Why would he need Maltheal? Well, Tathamet probably wants to still act in the shadows. Plus with using a corrupted Archangel, it would be hard press for another angel to even defeat him, as we saw in the cinematic. And Maltheal would be able to locate the location for the Black Soulstone and take it. As I have said, Tathamet it weaked. And while theory would say that Tathamet should of been born right when all Lords of Hell entered the stone, he was not. Tathamet wasn't just a name for all of the power combined, it was also a name for the controling personality. The one creature that was only given the name of Dragon. The one creature that no one knows nothing about and could easily be described as Death.
Edit
As someone pointed out, how could Maltheal find the Black Soulstone, especially so fast? I believe that Tathamet was the one that told him. Not that Tathamet knew the location before Tyreal and the Horadrim decided on it but that Tathamet can sense the power from it like someone knows where their arm is. That power, the Lords of Hell, are a part of Tathamet so the ability to find where it is does not seem unbelievable. And so I think Tathamet knew that it was going to be placed in Sactuary, probably general location due to the travel to the location was going to be long, so he had Maltheal follow the Stone to where we see in the Cinematic and then we get what we saw.
Thanks you for reading my speculation. If you have any opinions or maybe want to add further, please do so. I look forward to the Reaper of Souls and learning more about what is to come in the Future of Sanctuary.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
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However, going all paradoxy on time, I think you're wrong. Time it self is deemed as infinite. But one's time is seen as a finite number. Something that has to end. And that might be what the title, End of Days, is refering to. That it is the End of Days for the Nephalem. Potentially Angels. But definitely for the Nephalem. But once again, going all horoscopes on this.
And onto Tyrael. I think him proclaiming that he was Wisdom was more of something to say he is done being Justice. As Justice is a very fine line, especially because one person's justice is different from anothers, it is probably the hardest one to follow. However, it was Tyraels wisdom that helped the Nephalem seal the Prime Evils in the first place and it was even his Wisdom that saved us back in Lord of Destruction and helped us save the day in D3. Cause if the Worldstone was not destroyed, regardless of whether it was still corrupted or not, the Nephalem would not be as powerful as they are now, making it harder to even kill Super-Diablo. (P.S. I like the term Super-Diablo for his incarnation from the power of all Lords of Hell. There is probably no greater term besides this to describe him.)
Malthael not being Death was just speculation. As of now, I actually still side with it. Granted, somethings with the original theory are already proven wrong. But I could easily change those suspisions into others that would still fit in with the new information given. And with him trying to use the Soulstone to become Death. I don't really see how that would fit. I mean, it would be a cool theory to speculate on. But becoming a god, and especially one that could kill anything, seems more selfish than searching for more power to destroy and nephalem and restore balance. The major thing is, he supposedly has Righteous Intent. Now whether that is based on what he believes or something that, at some angles, can be seen as Righteous, who knows?
I think that Imperius has not succumbed to Wrath. I feel that what we saw in Vanilla was his pride, taking hold. He was too proud as an angel and as Valor to get help from, what he believed, a lesser race. I think his attitude is different torwards the Nephalem now. And Fate being shattered would need some HUGE event that was not forseen by Itherael. The Nephalem was huge, but I think he can still see the future of the Angels. But I agree, can't wait for the game to release. Will pre-order that CE and hope for a Midnight Release in my area.
Diablo is just being his cocky self. Not really wanting to admit defeat. But we already know Malthael's plan will go somewhat awry. Just like how Diablo's plan went somewhat awry.
But I can't wait till it is out to learn more of what happened and etc. I know some people disliked the story of vanilla, but I loved it. That is the main reason why I am back here with my crazy theories!
So after the Sin War, we know that the Angels voted on whether to destroy the Nephalem or not. Tyreal voted no with a 3-1 vote. However, I think the reason why Malthael abstained from the vote was because he did not know them well enough. Later, during the Mage Clan Wars, I believe Malthael was watching the Nephalem to get a grasp on their motives, life style, and whether they were powerful. But what he saw instead was destruction. They slaughtered each other and even innocent people. Even when Horazon and Bartuc battled, they themselves destroyed a city and kill hundreds of thousands. Malthael saw all that he needed and regretted his decision to abstain. He then decided that he would try to learn their future.
However, Fate can't see the future of the Nephalem, so he went about finding out a different way. During that time he spent looking for another way to see the future, the Dark Exile happened and everything Tyreal did was still kept in shadows because Malthael stopped watching the Nephalem. At least until he heard tale about the Sightless Eye. The Sightless Eye is a mirror that can reportedly pecieve the future. It is probably the one item in existance that can tell the future of the Nephalem. According to the Book of Cain, the Sisterhood of the Sightless Eye stole it from their homeland and fled to the Eastgate Keep. That is where they set up their new group. And its whereabouts are currently unknown to Cain, so I think it was take as well. I believe that in between The Sisterhood moving there and Andariel taking over the Sisterhood, is when the Sightless Eye was taken.
I think Malthael took it. He ended up seeing the future of the Nephalem. He saw the destruction of the Worldstone, and fate of the land that the Stone inhabited, and I believe he even saw the corruption of the High Heavens and the Nephalem there as well. But he also saw that Diablo had invaded. Now at the time, he did not believe what he saw was true. But when the Worldstone was destroyed, Malthael understood that what he saw was true. So he left the High Heavens, to search for a way to stop the next vision. What happened during those 20 years of absence, no one knows. But I believe his new power was a means to try to defend the High Heavens. However, he could not.
And when the High Heavens were attacked, he also saw what happened, hiding in the shadows. And the death of Diablo was probably the biggest thing that he saw. He didn't see it happen in the Eye but with his own. He then realized how powerful the Black Soulstone was, and the Nephalem themselves. Believing that they were too dangerous to be kept alive, he decided to destroy Sanctuary. And quite possibly with the Black Soulstone. Why not take care of two birds with one Soulstone? So I think he will try to destroy the Soulstone along with Sanctuary. And that is why it is believed that his actions are Justifiable. And also why he didn't kill Tyreal, because he sensed that he was still part angel.
Second, which lends credit to both my Tathamet theory and the Trag'Oul Theory is that on one of the Blizzard posts, there is a line that is interesting. That there can support both. Tathamet is known to be as old as the universe but Trag'Oul can almost be described in the same way. For it is said that he is is a celestial dragon whose body resembles a constellation of stars. That can easily be interpreted at him being as old as the universe.
As I've said before, I don't believe Trag'Oul is involved. He wants balance but not at the cost of history repeating itself. He wont release the Evils unless he can prevent their power from grouping up like it currently is. Plus Maltheal was becoming more dark even before the destruction of the Worldstone. Why was he turning like that? As he has given up his mantel of Wisdom, he has fallen but differently from Tyreal. And that absence of twenty years only leads to more speculation of him becoming corrupt. I can only seen him being corrupted by a being that is either stronger then him or even older than him. Which is why I still believe Tathamet is involved.
Because of how strong and dangerous the Black Soulstone is, it had to be locked away. But the uses I see for it are pretty limited. He could try to use that power for his own but he might lose himself further. He could release the Evils but then we would be right were we started. Kinda a slap in the face from Blizz. The only other use I can see is trying to resurrect something that has long thought been dead. Which Tathamet would be perfect. The big, bad evil. A great way to end this story in my opinion. But we will have to wait and see.
And Cain's comment on Angels was based on the information that Tyreal gave him. Many angel, including Imperius, despised the Nephalem because they were unnatural. The offspring of both Angels and Demons. Even that unnatural event has cause Fate to see less of the future, because the Nephalem are involved in the future. Cain feared that if Angels won, they would set their eyes on the Nephalem and get rid of the unnatural race. But with the Nephalem having saved the High Heavens, I no longer believe that to be the case.
Us causing the End of Days? Brilliant! What we might think is just simple defense against Corrupted Angles and Demons is in fact the cause of the world to end. But I feel we are missing a huge piece to Malhael. What happened to him during those 20 years after the destruction of the Worldstone? If we can learn that before the expansion comes out, than maybe we can get a better grasp on his true intentions.
Why don't I find this true? Well the first part is the name of the Expansion, Reaper of Souls. While Death does reap souls, he is not the only one. Death has given the power of reaping to his minions so that he doesn't always has to do the job. And I feel Maltheal is in that position. He is not Death, but in fact a lieutenant or general of the real Death. Absurd, I know. An Archangel becoming a minion of someone else? Wont happen! But I feel it did.
Even if you don't agree, hear me out. So why would Wisdom fall and instead becoming a minion? And who would be able to take up the role of Death if not Maltheal? Well, the later I will start first and it will lead to why I believe Wisdom fell. But who could be Death if not Maltheal? I'm glad you asked. I believe it is Tathamet.
WHAT? HOW? WHY? I know, I know. Also seems absurd. However, I will point back to the prophecy of the End of Days.
I feel the prophecy has actually not been fulfilled yet. I will argue that Valor has not turned to Wrath, but instead was consumed by Pride when he ignored help and denounced Tyreal. And Fate, is currently not shattered. Sure he can't see the future of the Nephalem, and I doubt he could see Maltheal falling, but what is the one thing that could cause Fate to be shattered forever? The rise of Tathamet. Which is where my second point lies. In the Book of Cain, it is said,
Sure, the term is ambiguous, but it fits. A dragon, based on most of our own lore, has wings. But it also explains why Maltheal took the Black Soulstone. Because Tathamet needs it. Because Tathamet is actually not dead.
Tathamet not dieing would mean that there is a being more powerful than any in the plane of Creation. But he was not, because the Lords of Hell were his power. So he was weakened, so even Wisdom should have been able to kill him. However, I feel Maltheal was also weakened. It was said that his mood was darkening before he left. I think he found something. Something that proved that Tathamet was alive. And Anu was in fact, dead. The savior of the Angels, Anu. Learning that his greatest feat had in fact never happened would seem to be a crushin blow to Wisdom. Someone who is supposed to know many things would start to question if one thing was false, how many other things are false as well. So we went to search for Tathamet after the destruction of the Worldstone and had in fact found him. Just the confirmation of him being alive shattered Maltheal, allowing Tathamet to corrupt him and use him.
Why would he need Maltheal? Well, Tathamet probably wants to still act in the shadows. Plus with using a corrupted Archangel, it would be hard press for another angel to even defeat him, as we saw in the cinematic. And Maltheal would be able to locate the location for the Black Soulstone and take it. As I have said, Tathamet it weaked. And while theory would say that Tathamet should of been born right when all Lords of Hell entered the stone, he was not. Tathamet wasn't just a name for all of the power combined, it was also a name for the controling personality. The one creature that was only given the name of Dragon. The one creature that no one knows nothing about and could easily be described as Death.
Edit
As someone pointed out, how could Maltheal find the Black Soulstone, especially so fast? I believe that Tathamet was the one that told him. Not that Tathamet knew the location before Tyreal and the Horadrim decided on it but that Tathamet can sense the power from it like someone knows where their arm is. That power, the Lords of Hell, are a part of Tathamet so the ability to find where it is does not seem unbelievable. And so I think Tathamet knew that it was going to be placed in Sactuary, probably general location due to the travel to the location was going to be long, so he had Maltheal follow the Stone to where we see in the Cinematic and then we get what we saw.
Thanks you for reading my speculation. If you have any opinions or maybe want to add further, please do so. I look forward to the Reaper of Souls and learning more about what is to come in the Future of Sanctuary.