What do you guys think about the current wording on devouring shot?
I take it to mean that you won't get the 70% dmg bonus after the 1st pierce.
Do you think this is accurate? The # seems kinda low when you do it that way....
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Nowhere did I say to switch runes. Are you going to be using hungering arrow on a boss? Grab a single target skill for a boss and if there are less than 3 mobs left alive, use a smaller aoe or the single target. That's what I was getting at. I don't plan on swapping runes all that often.
Aha, sorry for misinterpreting.
Anyway, shooting hungering arrow with shatter on 4 mobs is no guarantee that the shots will hit. Mobs might:
- flee
- burry
- fly
- go invis
- die from merc
- die from teamate
- die from companion
- die from trap
- die from dot
Of course all of this can happen with other runes as well, but as they only require 1 target (instead of 4) to maximize their efficiency they will be less likely to be affected.
This is no biggy. The rune will probably still be good. I'm just saying: It's not as good as it's on paper.
That's why I say you should have a skill for every situation :P. My build probably won't even include HA, so :3.
If shatter is not guided, then there is almost no situation that its better that one of the other choices.
You need 1.5 out of the 3 arrows to hit, just to make the runeskill better than the unruned hungering arrow.
You need all 3/3 arrows to hit for it to put out as much dmg as say puncturing.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
When making assumptions about Scatter, please consider that there are not always 4 mobs (1 mob and 3 nearby mobs to receive the split arrows). In many cases you might find your arrow split into 3 arrows with nothing to hit.
The chances of the other runes piercing and hitting an additional target is higher because:
1. they just need 1 additional target
2. they can hit the same target they pierced (which scatter PROBABLY can't. Would be really OP if it could)
Scatter will therefore blow more damage into thin air, instead of mobs, more on average than the other runes.
Its only OP if the 3 arrows are guided and can pierce.
Its merely on par with the others if the 3 arrows are guided, but can't pierce. If the 3 arrows from scatter are not guided, then scatter becomes crap. You would need to hit 1.5/3 mobs just to beat out the unruned version of hungering arrow. Hungering arrow is a great single target ability, so I can't see taking that niche away to make it a mediocre aoe ability.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Unless I'm mistaken...Wouldn't you have a 72.5% chance of one of the three arrows piercing on scatter?
(1.0-0.35)*(1.0-0.35)*(1.0-0.35)
I'm not saying one roll with a 72.5/100 chance...Just statistically, that you have a 72.5% chance for one of those three to pierce?
Its much easier to just look at the dmg of each individual arrow in that situation.
Each arrow is merely the unruned version of the hungering arrow at 176% wpn dmg.
There is a 35% chance to spam the 3 arrows, so 115+0.35*3*176
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Of course blizzard is always so damn vague, that even that could be interpreted different ways.
I don't remember the poison dart debuff stacking when I played the WD. So, maybe he means different sources.
Vasadan
Bola Shot isn't a DoT. The only thing that is "stacking" is the 1 second cast time/animation of the bola wrapping around the enemy.
Poison Dart does not, and is currently intended to not, have a stacking debuff. It does not say anywhere in the tooltip that it stacks. Casting a second Poison Dart simply refreshes the spell, and that is intended.
Not #1 and not #2 IS a possibility, simply forcing it into and aoe/line situational ability. I see no reason for throwing that option away; its theoretical max damage stays the same at 233.
Edit: scratch that on devouring, your equation is wrong. When n = 1, that's one pierce, aka the 2nd hit should have the 70% bonus, which you've now removed.
Edit2: I now see what you were getting at with the 'consecutive' but I believe that to be a mistake in wording. Having only the 3rd and higher hits get the bonus is not very intuitive.
Yah its still a possibility, but the dmg becomes rather pathetic in say a single target situation, imo the niche of the ability, is only 115% dmg. There would have to be a pretty big clump of mobs to ensure you get that potential 233% dmg. Idk, the other choices just seem better if that is the case, which is what I meant by saying it wasn't worth considering.
I started the sum at 1 on that particular one, because I had to subtract the 1st pierce from being able to gain the 70% dmg bonus. Of course, I am assuming that the 1st pierce doesn't get the dmg bonus, given the wording "consecutive pierces". However, by doing this you end up with a rather small #, 215%, that doesn't particularly make a lot of sense if you ask me. I think the other # was more fitting, though potentially maybe too strong against bosses.
Actually now that I look at it, they recently just nerfed puncturing arrow from 55% to 50% didnt they? That means they nerfed the dmg from 255% to the 230%.
Now, if shatter arrow doesn't allow piercing its at 230% range with the other 3. Then that would only leave devouring as an outlier. However, seeing as it drastically increases in dmg per pierce it has a high chance to overkill, thus lowering the overall effective dmg.
Therefore, I think its safe to assume that shatter arrow's won't be allowed to pierce. However, if that is not the case then shatter becomes the only choice, as it will be the best in pretty much any situation.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
1. split into three arrows which have three nearby targets to attack
2. split into three guided arrows
3. split into three regular arrows that hit
4. pierce targets
5. pierce targets and split into additional arrows
are all assumptions without any reasoning. I think it is safe to say the guided arrow will split into 3 regular arrows which in some cases won't even hit 3 targets. The rune would be broken otherwise.
1. Assuming they have homing, this is not an issue. (If they are not guided, it too will be a poor choice obviously.)
2. That is just #1 again
3. #2 said to assume they are guided...Which I said is actually only #1.
4. Yes that is another assumption.
5. This assumption was never made to my knowledge, as it clearly says a split only occurs on the first pierce.
So, what this really boils down to is we have 2 assumptions.
#1 The new arrows are guided.
#2 The new arrows are allowed to pierce.
This means there are 4 possibilities,
(Not #1 & Not#2)
(#1, but not #2)
(#2, but not #1)
(#1 and #2)
(Not #1 & Not#2) We talked about this, and if this is the case then shatter isn't even worth considering.
(#1, but not #2) Is already on the screenshot, 233.75
(#2, but not #1) I actually never considered this one, but it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense and would still make a rather poor choice.
(#1 and #2) On the screenshot at 300% dmg, and is seems too strong, thus not likely the way it works imo.
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EDIT: I misread devouring arrow. It stipulates that every consecutive pierce gets a 70% dmg boost. This puts it down to 215% dmg, which given the high probability of overkill makes it by far the worst choice.
Assuming this interpretation is correct that is.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Shatter most certainly can't have all 3 new arrows smart pierce as the potential dmg output would be outrageous. The dmg output would be about 708% wpn dmg per shot.
I think you did something wrong in your calculations. If all 3 pierce after the split then the average damage is about 300%, making it the best rune, but not wildly better than Devouring.
The damage formula is:
115 + 0.35 * 3 * SUM(0, inf, 115 * 0.35^n)
(initial hit plus 35% chance to get 3 arrows that are effectively each a non-runed version)
Your assumption for Shatter Shot that only one out of the 3 arrows after the split continue to pierce seems odd. I've been assuming that all 3 can pierce, but if that's not the case the second most likely option would seem like none of them can pierce.
I posted a reply to a similar reddit thread earlier today with details on how to calculate these infinite sums as well if anyone is interested: http://www.reddit.co...ungering_arrow/
i still like the idea of Shatter shot. makes it an aoe ability
fire 1 arrow, has 35% chance of exploding
of these 3 arrows, everyone got 35% chance of exploding again... and so on.
and its 35% that means its a bit higher then 1 of 3 explode again
Shatter Shot absolutely will not work like this. If every pierce split and each of the 3 arrows had a chance to pierce causing it to split again, etc, then the expected damage from a single shot would be infinite! (After the first pierce you have 3 chances at 35% to pierce so, on average, you will get 1.05 pierces, which leads to an exponential explosion in damage).
Shatter most certainly can't have all 3 new arrows smart pierce as the potential dmg output would be outrageous. The dmg output would be about 708% wpn dmg per shot.
Do you guys know if the pierced arrow prioritizes other mobs in the vicinity or the mob it hit?
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Now that I look scatter probably pierces the 1st target, and then splits and thats it. I would think those 3 arrows are smart arrows that still seek, but they won't split off again. But they could be dumb arrows as well. It would obviously be stupidly OP if all 3 could continue to piece.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I take it to mean that you won't get the 70% dmg bonus after the 1st pierce.
Do you think this is accurate? The # seems kinda low when you do it that way....
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
If shatter is not guided, then there is almost no situation that its better that one of the other choices.
You need 1.5 out of the 3 arrows to hit, just to make the runeskill better than the unruned hungering arrow.
You need all 3/3 arrows to hit for it to put out as much dmg as say puncturing.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Its only OP if the 3 arrows are guided and can pierce.
Its merely on par with the others if the 3 arrows are guided, but can't pierce. If the 3 arrows from scatter are not guided, then scatter becomes crap. You would need to hit 1.5/3 mobs just to beat out the unruned version of hungering arrow. Hungering arrow is a great single target ability, so I can't see taking that niche away to make it a mediocre aoe ability.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Each arrow is merely the unruned version of the hungering arrow at 176% wpn dmg.
There is a 35% chance to spam the 3 arrows, so 115+0.35*3*176
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Q. Will poison damage stack?
DoTs can stack, and the DoT can be poison based, but poison is not inherently a DoT.
http://diablo.incgam...-iii-fansite-qa
Of course blizzard is always so damn vague, that even that could be interpreted different ways.
I don't remember the poison dart debuff stacking when I played the WD. So, maybe he means different sources.
Vasadan
Bola Shot isn't a DoT. The only thing that is "stacking" is the 1 second cast time/animation of the bola wrapping around the enemy.
Poison Dart does not, and is currently intended to not, have a stacking debuff. It does not say anywhere in the tooltip that it stacks. Casting a second Poison Dart simply refreshes the spell, and that is intended.
https://us.battle.ne...c/4063007851#10
I just found this, I guess that kind of confirms that dots from the same source wont stack.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yah its still a possibility, but the dmg becomes rather pathetic in say a single target situation, imo the niche of the ability, is only 115% dmg. There would have to be a pretty big clump of mobs to ensure you get that potential 233% dmg. Idk, the other choices just seem better if that is the case, which is what I meant by saying it wasn't worth considering.
I started the sum at 1 on that particular one, because I had to subtract the 1st pierce from being able to gain the 70% dmg bonus. Of course, I am assuming that the 1st pierce doesn't get the dmg bonus, given the wording "consecutive pierces". However, by doing this you end up with a rather small #, 215%, that doesn't particularly make a lot of sense if you ask me. I think the other # was more fitting, though potentially maybe too strong against bosses.
This is a good analysis of the dmg ranges,
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
2. That is just #1 again
3. #2 said to assume they are guided...Which I said is actually only #1.
4. Yes that is another assumption.
5. This assumption was never made to my knowledge, as it clearly says a split only occurs on the first pierce.
So, what this really boils down to is we have 2 assumptions.
#1 The new arrows are guided.
#2 The new arrows are allowed to pierce.
This means there are 4 possibilities,
(Not #1 & Not#2)
(#1, but not #2)
(#2, but not #1)
(#1 and #2)
(Not #1 & Not#2) We talked about this, and if this is the case then shatter isn't even worth considering.
(#1, but not #2) Is already on the screenshot, 233.75
(#2, but not #1) I actually never considered this one, but it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense and would still make a rather poor choice.
(#1 and #2) On the screenshot at 300% dmg, and is seems too strong, thus not likely the way it works imo.
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EDIT: I misread devouring arrow. It stipulates that every consecutive pierce gets a 70% dmg boost. This puts it down to 215% dmg, which given the high probability of overkill makes it by far the worst choice.
Assuming this interpretation is correct that is.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
There I think I have it fixed about as good as it can get anyways.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Shatter most certainly can't have all 3 new arrows smart pierce as the potential dmg output would be outrageous. The dmg output would be about 708% wpn dmg per shot.
Do you guys know if the pierced arrow prioritizes other mobs in the vicinity or the mob it hit?
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
0.35^(0-1) = 0.35^(-1)
When they both start at 0, you are just using the initial dmg and there is no piece.
Yah those 2 will likely still pierce, good catch, ill fix it.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!