I agree with you about high heels, THAT is pretty over the top. I also wish they would have done the graphics/style slightly diffrent. I still like the current graphics and style but they could be better, in my opinion.
By aesthetics i meant the way the artist judge it's right to represent the object, not wich object he judge it's right to represent.
Of course i can't possibly know if we will even see Hell in D3 and if we do, if it's going to be a brimstone hell or a bloody hell or a cold and dark hell or w/e. Also i can't have any idea of wich objects they will choose to represent Hell. Will hell be like a giant citadel ? Or it will be a desert ? If it's a citadel, the building will be romanic or gothic ? I've no idea !
What I kno is that, whetever they choose to represent hell, we will find large and clean textures and slightly disproportional objects. We will find buildings made out of huge blocks and logs. Everything will tend to be "rounded" instead of "sharp". Etc...
And coortony is type of stylisation and you're right, it's a too strong word for D3. However I still don't like the stylized graphics. This kind of paint is meant to induce a "dream" sensation on the viewr. It's like you're in another reality or drunk.
Diablo shouldn't pass a dream sensation, it should pass a nightmarish one. Wich is usually produced by gritty looks and photorealism imo
Um...if a sexy female character is not really Diablo then what about the rouge from D1. I don't look at this picture and read dark gothic. And crossbows definitely does read medieval to me. Just because she dual-wields them?
First: This is not how the Rogue looks in game. Before it was common to creat art concept with very different style of the game. Theres a considerable amount of cartoonish D1 and D2 art concepts but the games itself follows a fotorealistic aesthetics.
Second: I'm not against sexy characters. I"m against out of context stuff. High heels is meant to make woman pretty at the cost of great disconfort but the DH should be dressed to kill and only to kill. Also, i totally agree crossbows have a very medieval feel ! However dual wielding something is not meant to be dual wielded only makes the character stylish/funny, wich takes out the serious tone the game usually had.
Besides, on many fronts the aspects of Diablo III are closer to Diablo I than II, which I like. Aesthetics is hard to judge based on a couple of screenshots and few short clips from specially made demo areas that aren't the most exciting there is.
And dunno, I'm personally not supporting DH because Blizz thought of it, I'm supporting it because the class concept has potential. And I reserve judgement until I know the other 16+ skills she's going to have.
Besides, it's helluva obvious there's fans of the games on www.diablofans.com.
And i don't think aesthetics is that hard to judge. Basically because each game have it's art standarts and the art team must work inside those "rules". For exemple, you can't start fightning zombies like those and then fight those. in the same game.
So by seeing a few monsters, classes, items and locations it's easy to determine what comes next, aesthetically, based on the revealed standard. It's like sample of very constant population.
Exemples: Screenshot 01
Look at the texture of the rocks. They are clean and "large", wich makes it looks cartoony like warcraft and warhammer rocks.
Now look at DAO's rocks Screenshot 2 (see the last screenshot). The texture is gritty and photorealistic, revealing a totally different art direction phylosophe.
So yeah, it is possible to determine the games aesthetics by observing the in-game rocks.
If throwing daggers don't fit the DH, whom do they fit?
And the only reason the DH has gotten so many support on this forum is because Blizz thought of it. If Blizz had thought of something else, and some user proposed the DH, he would'be been shot down quicker than you can say 'fanboy'. This forum is full of them, you know....
So anyone who disagrees with your opinion is a fanboy?
Wow, you've convinced me with your sound logic, maka. I switch sides, no dual xbows in D3 because offering fun and unique options are just something that don't belong in the Diablo universe! I hope they bring back all the old classes in the expansions too, I'm tired of these new, fresh classes that bring diffrent types of gameplay to the game...What is Blizzard thinking?
ROFL.
For the option to be good enough it does not only need to be unique, it needs to be appropriate. Dual wielding crossbows is not appropriate because the game should have, essentially, a dark/medieval feel. It shouldn't rely on stylism like high heels and pistols (and kung fu).
It's not something that would even appear in D1. And D1 = golden age of diablo stetics. Anything that take one step away from D1 is degradation. Basically because i'm a extreme conservative person when it comes to art style / flavor. Imo everything non-gameplay should be set in stone in the first stailment, D1 in this case. If you want to be build something different, build a new franchise.
I don't see why throwing weapons don't fit "her style". I think noone would throw a dagger with more propiety then the DH.
Also the chakran is not like a throwing weapon because it bounces back to it's user, like a boomerang.
5 Weapons choices, more then the monk, and still no "pistol crossbow". Actually they could even throw that pistol crossbow as a one handed weapon thata allows you to wear shields for extra def. I jsut don't like to see her dual wielding weapons that are not meant to be dual wielded.
It starts with dual crossbows. In exp we will have a pally dual wielding shields or using 2H shields... And people will like it.
She doesn't need to reload, she only needs a free hand to do so. Throw repeating crossbows instead of those pistol ones all the bad visual impact of pistol crossbows is gone.
I think some people didn't like pistol crossbows because it doesn't look alot medieval. I've drop it though. Diablo doen't look madieval since D2 so w/e.
Noone is doing "nu nuh"!. And the only one refusing to think about it is you since I made my point perfectly clear and you showed no response but aggression.
I believe you may need to re-read the thread. It may help you remember what was said.
Can you quote what i need to re read ? Cause i can't find "what was said".
ROFL. Nice way to run out of arguments and try to end the discussion being the smart ass.
Incorrect. I didn't run out of arguments, just got tired of people going "Nu huh!" and then metaphorically sticking fingers in their ears. I do apologize, but if people refuse to even think about it, there's no point for me to point out facts.
Noone is doing "nu nuh"!. And the only one refusing to think about it is you since I made my point perfectly clear and you showed no response but aggression.
You didn't get any of my points. 1h melee weapons have 0 visual impact because those things actually exist in the past games.
And who the fuck are you to tell me i'm in the wrong genre/frnchise ? Realism exist inside every fantasy world. It exist inside anything you think and creat.And If it don't it's because you suck and don't kno how to think and creat. Now I hope you know what the word realism means and don't come here with counter arguments like "demons don't exist, it breaks the realism" because this only shows how you don't have a idea of what you're talking about.
The only reason i I accept some stuff and deny others is because how the flavor is presented to me. Blizz explianed to me why the barbarian is so strong, why the wizard use magic and why the amazon can shoot that amount of arrows. For all those things theres is a consistent background,
The DH lack any kind of background to explain why she use such unconventional/stupid methods to hunt demons. Aim with two pistols instead of one is ALLWAYS worse, i don't see how the fuck a high heels can help her hunting down demons and the explaination of her shadow magic is inconsistent with everything we knew about sanctuary's oring of magic.
The way the DH is presented makes her a alien in diablo's universe.
You know, you make excellent points, and I agree with you. The inclusion of dual 1h pistol crossbows has ruined Diablo 3 and nobody should buy it until Blizzard removes this travesty on the Diablo franchise.
ROFL. Nice way to run out of arguments and try to end the discussion being the smart ass.
Again, i don't see any gameplay difference if they added 2h repeating crossbows instead of those pistols crossbows. In the end you would have an option for a slow/strong and a weak/fast weapon, wich is the fundamental difference between dual wielding and 2h weapons.
And my point is not only realism. Other "unrealistric" features (like the super large inventory, unlimitted ammo, etc...) exist for the sake of gameplay and cause of the fact that those features have a small visual impact due those things only exist inside the game's interface. Unlike those, the pistol crossbows adds little/nothing to gameplay and have a dramatic visual impact because it appears at your character.
My point is that those pistol crossbows is an alien in the diablo's universe, both in terms of flavor and in terms of stetics. If you're playing D2 or reading the lagacy of blood novel, would you ever think of pistols crossbows ?
When you have an consolidated fantasy world any kind of change is delicate. The change needs a context, a background. This weapon type is outside the flavor standarts builded for decades. And the worst is that this dramatic change occurs only to add fancy visuals, something the diablo's universe never had and never needed.
If this is your argument, I don't understand why you don't just argue for three types of weapons, "Melee Weapon", "Ranged Weapon", and "Caster Weapon". You fight against having 1h crossbows but not about 1h swords or 1h maces or 1h axes?
Well, 1h crossbows add just about as much as 1h swords, 1h maces, and 1h axes. Just sayin'.
Edit: One more thing: It has nothing to do with realism or lack thereof. It has everything to do with fun, and with more options.
If you want realism, you are in the wrong genre, and the Diablo series is not for you.
You didn't get any of my points. 1h melee weapons have 0 visual impact because those things actually exist in the past games.
And who the fuck are you to tell me i'm in the wrong genre/frnchise ? Realism exist inside every fantasy world. It exist inside anything you think and creat.And If it don't it's because you suck and don't kno how to think and creat. Now I hope you know what the word realism means and don't come here with counter arguments like "demons don't exist, it breaks the realism" because this only shows how you don't have a idea of what you're talking about.
The first has a very obvious explanation. The Bowazon is very fast
The second has an equally obvious explanation. The Barbarian is very strong That is made quite obvious by his ability to slam enemies across the entire screen.
The third is regarding ammo, the ability for game characters to store stuff without even having pockets on their pants, which I have stated multiple times that I ignore because there is no good way to explain it. I have no problems accepting things if they can't be explained. But I do want an explanation if there is room for one.
So you make excuses for everything else, but stick with 1h crossbows?
Alright, here's an equally simplistic explination: The Demon Hunter simply reloads her crossbows so fast you can't see her doing it. If you accept firing 3 arrows a second, you can easily accept this explanation.
The only reason i I accept some stuff and deny others is because how the flavor is presented to me. Blizz explianed to me why the barbarian is so strong, why the wizard use magic and why the amazon can shoot that amount of arrows. For all those things theres is a consistent background,
The DH lack any kind of background to explain why she use such unconventional/stupid methods to hunt demons. Aim with two pistols instead of one is ALLWAYS worse, i don't see how the fuck a high heels can help her hunting down demons and the explaination of her shadow magic is inconsistent with everything we knew about sanctuary's oring of magic.
The way the DH is presented makes her a alien in diablo's universe.
Gameplay ? I cant see anything that pistol crossbows can add to the gameplay that a repeating croissbow can't =/ Imo pistol crossbow is a mere attempt to add fancy visuals to the game. For most it works, for me it doesn't because i just hate fancy visuals.
Like said, it adds the possibility of having either 2x 1h or 1x 2h, as melee classes do. That is a real gameplay addition.
Already having crossbows as a close combat weapon is unrealistic enough, so I just personally don't see the point about being too fussed about realism. Crossbow loading is really slow, makes you vulnerable for close combat, and they're usually intended as long range weapons.
Considering how the Amazon in D2 had ONE viable weapon type option (bows) in 1.10+ because crossbows were inherently too slow and thus did less damage, I welcome this change.
I doubt it's going anywhere.
Again, i don't see any gameplay difference if they added 2h repeating crossbows instead of those pistols crossbows. In the end you would have an option for a slow/strong and a weak/fast weapon, wich is the fundamental difference between dual wielding and 2h weapons.
And my point is not only realism. Other "unrealistric" features (like the super large inventory, unlimitted ammo, etc...) exist for the sake of gameplay and cause of the fact that those features have a small visual impact due those things only exist inside the game's interface. Unlike those, the pistol crossbows adds little/nothing to gameplay and have a dramatic visual impact because it appears at your character.
My point is that those pistol crossbows is an alien in the diablo's universe, both in terms of flavor and in terms of stetics. If you're playing D2 or reading the lagacy of blood novel, would you ever think of pistols crossbows ?
When you have an consolidated fantasy world any kind of change is delicate. The change needs a context, a background. This weapon type is outside the flavor standarts builded for decades. And the worst is that this dramatic change occurs only to add fancy visuals, something the diablo's universe never had and never needed.
Not really. Not all weapons and equipaments are magical in D3. If pistol crossbows were a special unique item i would not complain. But this is not how the game work.
And even fantasyc have it's limitations. Just because theres a magic class here doesn't mean lame stuff is acceptable. Everyone would hate a bard that kill enemies using his songs for example.
I just think that in an ARPG like Diablo, sometimes gameplay takes precedence over realism.
I personally like the gameplay dual xbows promise to bring.
Gameplay ? I cant see anything that pistol crossbows can add to the gameplay that a repeating croissbow can't =/ Imo pistol crossbow is a mere attempt to add fancy visuals to the game. For most it works, for me it doesn't because i just hate fancy visuals.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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OH wait the wizard already...
Amen \m/
Of course i can't possibly know if we will even see Hell in D3 and if we do, if it's going to be a brimstone hell or a bloody hell or a cold and dark hell or w/e. Also i can't have any idea of wich objects they will choose to represent Hell. Will hell be like a giant citadel ? Or it will be a desert ? If it's a citadel, the building will be romanic or gothic ? I've no idea !
What I kno is that, whetever they choose to represent hell, we will find large and clean textures and slightly disproportional objects. We will find buildings made out of huge blocks and logs. Everything will tend to be "rounded" instead of "sharp". Etc...
And coortony is type of stylisation and you're right, it's a too strong word for D3. However I still don't like the stylized graphics. This kind of paint is meant to induce a "dream" sensation on the viewr. It's like you're in another reality or drunk.
Diablo shouldn't pass a dream sensation, it should pass a nightmarish one. Wich is usually produced by gritty looks and photorealism imo
Second: I'm not against sexy characters. I"m against out of context stuff. High heels is meant to make woman pretty at the cost of great disconfort but the DH should be dressed to kill and only to kill. Also, i totally agree crossbows have a very medieval feel ! However dual wielding something is not meant to be dual wielded only makes the character stylish/funny, wich takes out the serious tone the game usually had.
And i don't think aesthetics is that hard to judge. Basically because each game have it's art standarts and the art team must work inside those "rules". For exemple, you can't start fightning zombies like those and then fight those. in the same game.
So by seeing a few monsters, classes, items and locations it's easy to determine what comes next, aesthetically, based on the revealed standard. It's like sample of very constant population.
Exemples: Screenshot 01
Look at the texture of the rocks. They are clean and "large", wich makes it looks cartoony like warcraft and warhammer rocks.
Now look at DAO's rocks Screenshot 2 (see the last screenshot). The texture is gritty and photorealistic, revealing a totally different art direction phylosophe.
So yeah, it is possible to determine the games aesthetics by observing the in-game rocks.
ROFL.
For the option to be good enough it does not only need to be unique, it needs to be appropriate. Dual wielding crossbows is not appropriate because the game should have, essentially, a dark/medieval feel. It shouldn't rely on stylism like high heels and pistols (and kung fu).
It's not something that would even appear in D1. And D1 = golden age of diablo stetics. Anything that take one step away from D1 is degradation. Basically because i'm a extreme conservative person when it comes to art style / flavor. Imo everything non-gameplay should be set in stone in the first stailment, D1 in this case. If you want to be build something different, build a new franchise.
Also the chakran is not like a throwing weapon because it bounces back to it's user, like a boomerang.
- Repeating Crossbows
- Throwing Weapons (Daggers/Kunai/Shuriken/Stuff)
- Chakrans (xena's awesome throwing ring)
- Bows
5 Weapons choices, more then the monk, and still no "pistol crossbow". Actually they could even throw that pistol crossbow as a one handed weapon thata allows you to wear shields for extra def. I jsut don't like to see her dual wielding weapons that are not meant to be dual wielded.
It starts with dual crossbows. In exp we will have a pally dual wielding shields or using 2H shields... And people will like it.
I think some people didn't like pistol crossbows because it doesn't look alot medieval. I've drop it though. Diablo doen't look madieval since D2 so w/e.
Can you quote what i need to re read ? Cause i can't find "what was said".
Noone is doing "nu nuh"!. And the only one refusing to think about it is you since I made my point perfectly clear and you showed no response but aggression.
ROFL. Nice way to run out of arguments and try to end the discussion being the smart ass.
You didn't get any of my points. 1h melee weapons have 0 visual impact because those things actually exist in the past games.
And who the fuck are you to tell me i'm in the wrong genre/frnchise ? Realism exist inside every fantasy world. It exist inside anything you think and creat.And If it don't it's because you suck and don't kno how to think and creat. Now I hope you know what the word realism means and don't come here with counter arguments like "demons don't exist, it breaks the realism" because this only shows how you don't have a idea of what you're talking about.
The only reason i I accept some stuff and deny others is because how the flavor is presented to me. Blizz explianed to me why the barbarian is so strong, why the wizard use magic and why the amazon can shoot that amount of arrows. For all those things theres is a consistent background,
The DH lack any kind of background to explain why she use such unconventional/stupid methods to hunt demons. Aim with two pistols instead of one is ALLWAYS worse, i don't see how the fuck a high heels can help her hunting down demons and the explaination of her shadow magic is inconsistent with everything we knew about sanctuary's oring of magic.
The way the DH is presented makes her a alien in diablo's universe.
Again, i don't see any gameplay difference if they added 2h repeating crossbows instead of those pistols crossbows. In the end you would have an option for a slow/strong and a weak/fast weapon, wich is the fundamental difference between dual wielding and 2h weapons.
And my point is not only realism. Other "unrealistric" features (like the super large inventory, unlimitted ammo, etc...) exist for the sake of gameplay and cause of the fact that those features have a small visual impact due those things only exist inside the game's interface. Unlike those, the pistol crossbows adds little/nothing to gameplay and have a dramatic visual impact because it appears at your character.
My point is that those pistol crossbows is an alien in the diablo's universe, both in terms of flavor and in terms of stetics. If you're playing D2 or reading the lagacy of blood novel, would you ever think of pistols crossbows ?
When you have an consolidated fantasy world any kind of change is delicate. The change needs a context, a background. This weapon type is outside the flavor standarts builded for decades. And the worst is that this dramatic change occurs only to add fancy visuals, something the diablo's universe never had and never needed.
Gameplay ? I cant see anything that pistol crossbows can add to the gameplay that a repeating croissbow can't =/ Imo pistol crossbow is a mere attempt to add fancy visuals to the game. For most it works, for me it doesn't because i just hate fancy visuals.