Btw guys, if you are playing CM and using a razer mouse - make a macro assigned to one of the mouse buttons to spam 1,2,3 for you. I have been using this for months, no bans of any sort. This is also a part of the razer official mouse driver and all it does is emulates the button clicks, which basically means - there's nothing to detect to begin with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I used 60s fight duration, 100ms latency/reaction time, against 1 mob. Your char sheet shows 3.03 APS, 49.5 crit, 20 APoC, and 172.9k dps. The FN uptime was estimated at around 64% for both runs.
With EA, crystal shell, Time Warp, and bone chill it calculates your effective dps multiplier to be 2.97, so your effective dps is 514k. Your WW makes up about 65% of that, with 34% from CR and 1% from white attacks. (WW = 1.93x char sheet dps)
If you used full SNS your multiplier would be 5.18 for an effective dps of 896k. The breakdown is 19.6% CR, 0.7% White attacks, 37.3% WW, 28.4% SA, 7.9% Storm Armor, and 6.1% DS. (WW = 1.47x char sheet dps).
Did a few runs on MP5 today on Azmodan (to avoid the EHP problems on MP10, although the fight duration has gone down quite a bit). Did 5 of each to average out the time and to take out some random RNG (still a small sample)
Azmodan HP on MP5 = 25'738'048
No followers
Base of about 200ms latency
EA + CS + Time Warp + Cold Blooded + Bone chill = 46 seconds = 559'523 DPS (which is only 8% off your simulated number)
Full SNS = 25 seconds = 1'029'522 DPS (14% off your simulated number)
That really is a huge difference in DPS between the 2 setups, however, in terms of EHP my life did not move at all with the EA build, while with SNS i had to pot to stay alive (i have 0 LOH 0 LS), the way i'm looking at it - with my EHP level it's going to be very fast to farm elites on MP6 and may be 7 with full SNS, while for MP10 ubers or group farming it has got to be EA build.
If you wish to have some point of reference:
Current EHP (vs elite) = 463'024 with EA (prismatic) up and that is sufficient for MP10 elites (easily survive Magda's hits)
Current EHP (vs elite) = 334'449 without EA is sufficient to survive MP6 elites easily
Using the MP10 value we can solve for all the other values in the table for each MP:
MP1
109.60%
202'916
MP2
120.12%
222'393
MP3
131.65%
243'740
MP4
144.29%
267'142
MP5
158.14%
292'785
MP6
173.32%
320'889
MP7
189.96%
351'697
MP8
208.20%
385'467
MP9
228.18%
422'459
MP10
250.09%
463'024
This table also fits in the MP6 values quite nicely that i've reported just above. It is a fair bit higher than your table for EHP, to me, personally - this would be a 'comfortable' survival without being one shot by anything inclusive of Magda's attacks even while sitting on 0 LOH and 0 LS.
Using this table what i can do is: use EA with pinpoint which would give me 397,153 EHP vs elite and that will put me on 'comfortable' place to farm MP8
Alternatively adding 130k EHP would allow me to go full SNS build on MP10
Or i can add 35k EHP and go MP10 with pinpoint barrier instead
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Loroese, i can't use the m file, could you perhaps do a sim with my gear of the resulting DPS please? I'll do a timed MP10 Azmodan. I'm quite curious on the actual DPS output of the CMWW.
The ranges that you do suggest 1.2-2.4 char sheet DPS is rather quite a drastic variation, perhaps there's a way to narrow it down to be more specific?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
For example, my WW DPS is shown as 23'211 on D3up.com, but that is for a single tornado,
A tornado exists for 6 seconds,
with 3.03 APS we cast 3 tornadoes a second (lets take AP out of equation for a second)
so after 6 seconds we should have 6*3=18 tornadoes going at the same time on the mob
18*23'211=417'798 DPS from WW alone
Am i on the right track here?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Agree on that, the reason why i was saying LOH / LS is not really needed is that with a 'decent' group stuff will die very fast, hence you are not pressed on DPS yourself by any means, which translates into no reason to use shards. Following this logic - your job is solely freeze stuff for others to kill. Which works out very well without any LS / LOH for me, i've done a few dozens on ubers on MP10 in the last few nights and i have died only once, which was my own 'experiment' to see if i can tank the beam (lol no i can't). I do take occasional hit from magda / SK but those hits are so rare that health globes / 300 life regen more than covers the HP deficiency at that point for me.
There are a few ways to go about doing this for sure, one of the ways is the way i'm doing it - i'm just letting other people know that it works too
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Nicely done Loroese, could you please add hyperlinks to the parts of the guide from the contents table - would make browsing it a fair bit more manageable.
As for your EHP estimates:
I run with http://d3up.com/b/100961 355k EHP buffed and 400k EHP vs elites. For MP10 ubers - this is a cakewalk. On the ubers - the only thing to watch out for is the Maghda's beam - that stupid thing eats thru the crystal shell like a hot knife thru butter.
For general elites - unless it's a molten pack, it's very managable, arcane enchanted is a big problem - the beam is really > you. The rest of the stuff is easy.
Reflect damage is an issue for some people here that i saw, i think there's a point to be made here:
How much damage you take it dependent not only on your EHP (resist / armor) but also on your APS. Higher APS = faster refresh of diamond skin = a lot more absorption offered. I am running at 3.03 APS & 40 ticks of WW - i take no damage from reflect damage mobs at all. My DPS in CM/WW setup is 170k (granted it's not fantastically high).
LOH / LS is another issue i'd like to make a point on - in my gear setup i have 0 LOH and 0 LS, yet i have very little issues primarily because of the 40 tick WW refreshing diamond skin extremely fast offering a HUGE amount of absorption. When things go bad and you take a few hits - LOH / LS is not really going to save you - you'll die anyway, hence all my healing comes from globes + life regen. Personally, i would not recommend anyone spending gold on those stats - it's better to go for high APS instead, not only does that increase mitigation, but it also increases the frost nova uptime on mobs allowing for a lot less hits, etc - with 3.03 APS i am able to perma freeze stuff to the point where Ghom doesn't cast his cloud even the whole fight on MP10. Surely if you do have insane amounts of gold - you should get some LOH/LS, however, if you get them on MH (chantodo) you're foregoing a socket, which is a very large DPS boost for any CM (since we work on high CC), if you're going to get LOH on a trifecta ring / amulet = 1 billion gold is about how much you'll need to get each piece. (you can't get 400-500 LOH blackthorn legs because you need AIS from pants = inna's)
Last point i think you should put in your guide is that CM/WW is primarily a build for groups. Frankly - there's no way CM/WW could compare in efficiency to archon / teleport build for farming of MP0/1 and it takes stupid investment to make archon really worthwhile in MP10 ubers. Hence the wizard works out very nicely as CM/WW for high MP ubers and switch skills with same gear setup for archon for low MP paragon leveling / farming.
As such, i personally, view CM/WW as a 'utility' build rather than raw DPS / farming build, the DPS you bring as CM/WW is insignificant as compared to HOTA barbs. However a HOTA barb is not going to be able to stand and melt face to max out their potential without a CM/WW Wizard. As a CM/WW it's very easy to find a group to do MP10 either ubers or wardens, i've made a post on d2jsp about CM Wiz LFG MP10 ubers last night and in 5 minutes of the post i got 3 replies on forum and 5 people 'add friend' ingame.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Did a few runs on MP5 today on Azmodan (to avoid the EHP problems on MP10, although the fight duration has gone down quite a bit). Did 5 of each to average out the time and to take out some random RNG (still a small sample)
Azmodan HP on MP5 = 25'738'048
No followers
Base of about 200ms latency
EA + CS + Time Warp + Cold Blooded + Bone chill = 46 seconds = 559'523 DPS (which is only 8% off your simulated number)
Full SNS = 25 seconds = 1'029'522 DPS (14% off your simulated number)
That really is a huge difference in DPS between the 2 setups, however, in terms of EHP my life did not move at all with the EA build, while with SNS i had to pot to stay alive (i have 0 LOH 0 LS), the way i'm looking at it - with my EHP level it's going to be very fast to farm elites on MP6 and may be 7 with full SNS, while for MP10 ubers or group farming it has got to be EA build.
If you wish to have some point of reference:
Current EHP (vs elite) = 463'024 with EA (prismatic) up and that is sufficient for MP10 elites (easily survive Magda's hits)
Current EHP (vs elite) = 334'449 without EA is sufficient to survive MP6 elites easily
Using the MP10 value we can solve for all the other values in the table for each MP:
This table also fits in the MP6 values quite nicely that i've reported just above. It is a fair bit higher than your table for EHP, to me, personally - this would be a 'comfortable' survival without being one shot by anything inclusive of Magda's attacks even while sitting on 0 LOH and 0 LS.
Using this table what i can do is: use EA with pinpoint which would give me 397,153 EHP vs elite and that will put me on 'comfortable' place to farm MP8
Alternatively adding 130k EHP would allow me to go full SNS build on MP10
Or i can add 35k EHP and go MP10 with pinpoint barrier instead
The ranges that you do suggest 1.2-2.4 char sheet DPS is rather quite a drastic variation, perhaps there's a way to narrow it down to be more specific?
For example, my WW DPS is shown as 23'211 on D3up.com, but that is for a single tornado,
A tornado exists for 6 seconds,
with 3.03 APS we cast 3 tornadoes a second (lets take AP out of equation for a second)
so after 6 seconds we should have 6*3=18 tornadoes going at the same time on the mob
18*23'211=417'798 DPS from WW alone
Am i on the right track here?
There are a few ways to go about doing this for sure, one of the ways is the way i'm doing it - i'm just letting other people know that it works too
As for your EHP estimates:
I run with http://d3up.com/b/100961 355k EHP buffed and 400k EHP vs elites. For MP10 ubers - this is a cakewalk. On the ubers - the only thing to watch out for is the Maghda's beam - that stupid thing eats thru the crystal shell like a hot knife thru butter.
For general elites - unless it's a molten pack, it's very managable, arcane enchanted is a big problem - the beam is really > you. The rest of the stuff is easy.
Reflect damage is an issue for some people here that i saw, i think there's a point to be made here:
How much damage you take it dependent not only on your EHP (resist / armor) but also on your APS. Higher APS = faster refresh of diamond skin = a lot more absorption offered. I am running at 3.03 APS & 40 ticks of WW - i take no damage from reflect damage mobs at all. My DPS in CM/WW setup is 170k (granted it's not fantastically high).
LOH / LS is another issue i'd like to make a point on - in my gear setup i have 0 LOH and 0 LS, yet i have very little issues primarily because of the 40 tick WW refreshing diamond skin extremely fast offering a HUGE amount of absorption. When things go bad and you take a few hits - LOH / LS is not really going to save you - you'll die anyway, hence all my healing comes from globes + life regen. Personally, i would not recommend anyone spending gold on those stats - it's better to go for high APS instead, not only does that increase mitigation, but it also increases the frost nova uptime on mobs allowing for a lot less hits, etc - with 3.03 APS i am able to perma freeze stuff to the point where Ghom doesn't cast his cloud even the whole fight on MP10. Surely if you do have insane amounts of gold - you should get some LOH/LS, however, if you get them on MH (chantodo) you're foregoing a socket, which is a very large DPS boost for any CM (since we work on high CC), if you're going to get LOH on a trifecta ring / amulet = 1 billion gold is about how much you'll need to get each piece. (you can't get 400-500 LOH blackthorn legs because you need AIS from pants = inna's)
Last point i think you should put in your guide is that CM/WW is primarily a build for groups. Frankly - there's no way CM/WW could compare in efficiency to archon / teleport build for farming of MP0/1 and it takes stupid investment to make archon really worthwhile in MP10 ubers. Hence the wizard works out very nicely as CM/WW for high MP ubers and switch skills with same gear setup for archon for low MP paragon leveling / farming.
As such, i personally, view CM/WW as a 'utility' build rather than raw DPS / farming build, the DPS you bring as CM/WW is insignificant as compared to HOTA barbs. However a HOTA barb is not going to be able to stand and melt face to max out their potential without a CM/WW Wizard. As a CM/WW it's very easy to find a group to do MP10 either ubers or wardens, i've made a post on d2jsp about CM Wiz LFG MP10 ubers last night and in 5 minutes of the post i got 3 replies on forum and 5 people 'add friend' ingame.