So the game is completely balanced at 13, but not 8?!?
Again, you can't make any judgements about balance at 13 when every class one shots everything, thats not logical at all. The game is completely unbalanced, because you shouldn't be that well geared in that area. So to claim there exist class balance in that completely unbalanced situation is just stupid.
So are you just choosing to ignore the point where I said regardless of the area or how much hp enemies have?... NONE of the characters should be that well geared at that level, and yet all gear being the same, even though wizard will likely be more gear dependent, hell even naked the Wizard's damage, thanks to the runes and which not compared to others is FINE. Is everyone on a 100% equal footing? No, because once again the game is balanced to lvl 60, at that point, the characters should all be equally strong with different gear requirements.
This thread is about wether the wizard is underpowered. Its not, regardless of whatever limitations you want to put on it to make it less true, at LVL 13 which THE FARTHEST WE CAN TEST, the damage numbers are NOT underpowered, nor is the range of skills that it has, slows, large aoe and damage absorbing armor.
It doesn't matter wether you are hitting a lvl 1 monster or a lvl 20 monster, at lvl 13 my wizard will probably take it down just as fast as your monk.
But you apparently aren't allowing anyone to think about anything but the journey to 13, an that is not the point.
Who cares about 13? As was said earlier, if you can one shot everything then every class seems equal regardless of the actual numbers.
As I said it is balanced at the END point of the beta, the highest we can get to, meaning if beta was the actual game, regardless of the middle portion the characters end up balanced, in terms of damage, regardless of 1 shot or not. Hell I'm pretty sure my wizard was vastly out DPSing most monks I played with, maybe they should complain about their balance.
If the game kept going and monsters had more hp and my wizard was still doing its lvl 13 damage it WOULD be balanced with the damage of the other classes at lvl 13. THAT is the point not wether or not my wizard got the skills to put it at the exact same dps as the other classes at the same time, just that it does get there. Its especially not the point it isn't on part for a tiny section of the beginning act.
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We do have all the information regarding mechanics. The beta gameplay is just another part of the puzzle we can use to piece together a constructive viewpoint of actual gameplay later on. You will do the exact same thing later while playing the game to determine which skills and combos work the best.
Experimentation is important, but we have a good deal of it via the beta and even gameplay in D2.
Gameplay at lvl 7-9 will not be rebalanced is the point. Hell class balance at 20-30 isn't really the point either, these skills are balanced for lvl 60 generally as they're expected to be able to be used the entire way. If you look at any RPG generally you can compare classes ever 5 levels and see that the best class at that level will change. Why? Because this character gets a good synergy at 12 that this other one that was stronger at 10 didn't, and then the other class gets some huge bonus at the next level range.
The beta wizard gameplay at LVL 13 feels balanced fine with other classes at LVL 13, at lvl 8? Maybe not, who cares once you get to 13?
Two completely different games mechanic wise....so your analogy falls flat on its face.
It really doesn't... If you don't have the all the intended class mechanics available to a class, you can't complain about its balance. Wizard doesn't have regen available in the beta, only Power Hungry at lvl 10, which is beyond the scope he wants to compare even. But as Wizard is a class that they've specifically talked about regen and regen speed being HUGE for, its rediculous to compare it to other classes that ARE doing their main class mechanics. The point being that because Wizard OBVIOUSLY scales to be better a littler later than the first 20-30 minutes of the game, its rediculous to compare it to other classes that are better set up to scale during that minute portion of play.
How about at a level and gear that is relevant to the beta...If you run around one shotting everything then of course every class would seem OP. Thats hardly a good position to look at the games balance. Is that really that complicated for you?
Gear is actually a factor we can even eliminate. Everyone will have similar gear, thus the real factors are the skills themselves and we have all that info already.
There is no level in beta that is relevant to balance. No one is going to be complaining about their lvl 10 anything when the game comes out, because it takes an hour to get there, and another hour to be WELL past that point. The only thing we can speculate about is the farthest we can get into the game, when the classes have the most access to the most things, its meaningless to speculate about balance at a level where noone will be for any length of time, and even less meaningful to discuss levels before that.
Anyway, good troll, and good day sir moving on to constructive comments.
Wow you are dense....try level 7-9 for SK. That is the relevant lever, and whatever gear you find on the way is the relevant gear level.
At level 13 with 70 dps you can't really make any useful conclusions at all, as you are way too powerful for that content.
Here let me whip out the crayons for you. If I can one shot all the mobs with 50 dps, and you have 1000 dps. Then there is no advantage to having that extra 950 dps... it does nothing.For all intents and purposes in that scenario the 50 dps is equal in killing power to the 1000 dps.This is why you can't judge the content of the beta based on level 13's with the best gear in beta.
k champ, now its time to go beddy bye.
By your reasoning in D2 we should conclude that the Sorceress SUCKED by the time you get to Blood Raven, it has no mana regen and no survivability, therefore it is terribly weak and unbalanced.... Meanwhile the Necro is the strongest most awesome character ever and should be nerfed right?
45 minutes of any RPG doesn't give you the slightest bit of information about class balance...
How about at a level and gear that is relevant to the beta...If you run around one shotting everything then of course every class would seem OP. Thats hardly a good position to look at the games balance. Is that really that complicated for you?
Gear is actually a factor we can even eliminate. Everyone will have similar gear, thus the real factors are the skills themselves and we have all that info already.
There is no level in beta that is relevant to balance. No one is going to be complaining about their lvl 10 anything when the game comes out, because it takes an hour to get there, and another hour to be WELL past that point. The only thing we can speculate about is the farthest we can get into the game, when the classes have the most access to the most things, its meaningless to speculate about balance at a level where noone will be for any length of time, and even less meaningful to discuss levels before that.
Anyway, good troll, and good day sir moving on to constructive comments.
A bunch of kids who get to 13, drastically outlevel and outgear the content and comment on the balance.
What a joke....
Oh I'm sorry you were trying to compare the classes at what? Lvl 5 with no gear?...
This is Diablo, gear matters, having access to appropriate skills/runes matter. The point being made was that at LVL 13, compared to all the other classes at LVL 13, the wizard is fine. Thanks for the non contribution though.
Wizard is quite powerful, properly equipped I was hitting AO for 100+, ray of frost was killing most thing in seconds higher health monsters in a couple more, the arcane energy was a bit of a gripe for me, but the wizard at this stage of the game doesn't have all of the generating abilities it will later. Once I got power hungry as long as I was smart with hitting AO in big groups it wasn't a problem to pick up a couple orbs and be full again.
Tl:dr; Wizard isn't a mindless spammer, plan your attacks for maximum effect and energy consumption, huge damage is possible
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So are you just choosing to ignore the point where I said regardless of the area or how much hp enemies have?... NONE of the characters should be that well geared at that level, and yet all gear being the same, even though wizard will likely be more gear dependent, hell even naked the Wizard's damage, thanks to the runes and which not compared to others is FINE. Is everyone on a 100% equal footing? No, because once again the game is balanced to lvl 60, at that point, the characters should all be equally strong with different gear requirements.
This thread is about wether the wizard is underpowered. Its not, regardless of whatever limitations you want to put on it to make it less true, at LVL 13 which THE FARTHEST WE CAN TEST, the damage numbers are NOT underpowered, nor is the range of skills that it has, slows, large aoe and damage absorbing armor.
It doesn't matter wether you are hitting a lvl 1 monster or a lvl 20 monster, at lvl 13 my wizard will probably take it down just as fast as your monk.
But you apparently aren't allowing anyone to think about anything but the journey to 13, an that is not the point.
As I said it is balanced at the END point of the beta, the highest we can get to, meaning if beta was the actual game, regardless of the middle portion the characters end up balanced, in terms of damage, regardless of 1 shot or not. Hell I'm pretty sure my wizard was vastly out DPSing most monks I played with, maybe they should complain about their balance.
If the game kept going and monsters had more hp and my wizard was still doing its lvl 13 damage it WOULD be balanced with the damage of the other classes at lvl 13. THAT is the point not wether or not my wizard got the skills to put it at the exact same dps as the other classes at the same time, just that it does get there. Its especially not the point it isn't on part for a tiny section of the beginning act.
Gameplay at lvl 7-9 will not be rebalanced is the point. Hell class balance at 20-30 isn't really the point either, these skills are balanced for lvl 60 generally as they're expected to be able to be used the entire way. If you look at any RPG generally you can compare classes ever 5 levels and see that the best class at that level will change. Why? Because this character gets a good synergy at 12 that this other one that was stronger at 10 didn't, and then the other class gets some huge bonus at the next level range.
The beta wizard gameplay at LVL 13 feels balanced fine with other classes at LVL 13, at lvl 8? Maybe not, who cares once you get to 13?
It really doesn't... If you don't have the all the intended class mechanics available to a class, you can't complain about its balance. Wizard doesn't have regen available in the beta, only Power Hungry at lvl 10, which is beyond the scope he wants to compare even. But as Wizard is a class that they've specifically talked about regen and regen speed being HUGE for, its rediculous to compare it to other classes that ARE doing their main class mechanics. The point being that because Wizard OBVIOUSLY scales to be better a littler later than the first 20-30 minutes of the game, its rediculous to compare it to other classes that are better set up to scale during that minute portion of play.
By your reasoning in D2 we should conclude that the Sorceress SUCKED by the time you get to Blood Raven, it has no mana regen and no survivability, therefore it is terribly weak and unbalanced.... Meanwhile the Necro is the strongest most awesome character ever and should be nerfed right?
45 minutes of any RPG doesn't give you the slightest bit of information about class balance...
There is no level in beta that is relevant to balance. No one is going to be complaining about their lvl 10 anything when the game comes out, because it takes an hour to get there, and another hour to be WELL past that point. The only thing we can speculate about is the farthest we can get into the game, when the classes have the most access to the most things, its meaningless to speculate about balance at a level where noone will be for any length of time, and even less meaningful to discuss levels before that.
Anyway, good troll, and good day sir
Oh I'm sorry you were trying to compare the classes at what? Lvl 5 with no gear?...
This is Diablo, gear matters, having access to appropriate skills/runes matter. The point being made was that at LVL 13, compared to all the other classes at LVL 13, the wizard is fine. Thanks for the non contribution though.
Fuji apples > Grannysmiths....
Your playstyle is your own
Tl:dr; Wizard isn't a mindless spammer, plan your attacks for maximum effect and energy consumption, huge damage is possible