True... I guess I didn't fully state my thoughts there, lol. It's only good if you're mana capped (have more mana than you can spend).
You'll be spending 30% more mana if you use pierce which means you will cast 30% less spells but the spells will do 20% more damage. Seems like a crappy deal to me... at the cost of one of your passive slots even.
There is of course, the benefit of doing more upfront damage. If you want to have a burst damage build, pierce is for you. However, realize that you will be giving up a lot of long term dps. It's a bit of a trap passive imo. It sounds good at first look but if you sit down and think about the tradeoffs... it's really not worth it unless your build is made with it in mind (no mana skills, low mana skills).
Well said. There is tremendous value to paying only 85% mana cost of spells (w/ blood ritual) vs 130% mana cost with Pierce the Veil. Max mana is overrated, because in boss fights you'll only have max mana once, and that is when you begin the fight. Regen is what matters. By paying 85% of the mana cost for a spell, you are in essence regenerating 1.17 mana for each 1 point of mana regenerated (1/0.85). On the flip side, if you are paying 130% mana cost of each spell, then you are only effectively regenerating .77 mana for each one point of mana regenerated (1/1.3). In other words a Blood Ritual WD has a 52% greater mana regeneration rate than a Pierce WD. (.4 [difference between regen rate) / .77).
Now if the 4 player group is demolishing the mobs, and you want to make your dent before your teammates crush the enemy, then pierce is awesome. But for maximum damage over time, then Pierce is out.
I think pierce is really crappy unless you have an odd build that relies on one of the primary skills for the main source of damage.
In other words, it's specialized. I'm using Firebats, which do a LOT of damage, especially with Soul Harvest & 20% more damage. But if you're doing a summoner's build, which is going to be a huge % of WD's out there, then there are much better passives to choose.
In WOW, I remember a priest joining my party and he coudn't heal worth Sh*t, but he did a LOT of DOT damage. It worked & defied expectations. In this case, people may be expecting a small army of miscreants, but instead will get a a heavy firebat breathing DPSer.
Spell mana costs go up with a seemingly set amount of points per level increase.
However, the general idea behind your statement is sound. However I would've loved too see Blood Ritual a bit more potent, 15% doesn't feel like so good >_>
Thanks for the response. That's good to know that the mana costs go up as you level. I am also using pierce the veil in combo with blood ritual. So at the end of the day, I'm using two passives to do 20% more damage at 15% more mana cost. Most people who do Pierce the Veil will be paying 30% more mana to do 20% more damage. Is that worth using up two passives for?
Blood Ritual is going to be very useful in Inferno, because health is going to scale while mana will not. Here's why, creatures will be doing 10's of thousands of points of damage to your health, so therefore, your HP will have to increase dramatically. However, the only thing that does "damage" to mana are your spells...and those cost the same at level 60 as they do at level one. Therefore, while your HP's will probably be in the 5 digits later in the game, it is unlikely that mana will. Therefore, the 15% drain to your health from blood ritual is going to be practically "free" at later levels.
You do realize that Zdogs was the cornerstone of your build? You ABSOLUTELY NEED the zombie dogs in there if you plan on playing like you described. You can't have a million monsters banging on you while you channel spells that hurt you. You need the dogs + garg to distract enemies and keep them off of you so that you can continue to spam firebats without dying.
You're right. There needs to be some type of diversion/tanking/kiting mechanic for non-melee characters to survive. I figure with a party of 4, w/ a tank or two, this build will be just fine. If I am soloing or going in w/ minimal tanks, then I may swap out the Gargantuan for the Z dogs. The Gargantuan looks freaking cool, but having 3 dogs may be better at engaging multiple enemies than one big summon. I'll have to see how the game plays out.
Haunt is now a cornerstone of this build, since it is my source of life regen. And Spirit Walk is a great fit, because it gets me out of trouble and replenishes 1/3rd of my mana every 13 seconds (with the spirit vessel passive)! The main point of the build is high DPS bats for prolonged periods of time. At this time, I'm not interested in creating a summoning WD, although it would be cool to build a HUGE army...but not for this build. With the three dogs or the gargantuan, I should be able to stay in the clear and not have to kite around like an ice wizard.
[edit 8:00 pm] Just read this quote from Jay WIlson, "One of the newest pets that we've added to the Witch Doctor, which is the Gargantuan, which is a big giant, kind of, tough zombie creature that is designed more to absorb damage and kind of distract enemies."
GREAT Suggestions! You're right about the Zdogs. They were just kind of thrown in and don't add to the rest of the build. Got a question on spirit walk. Does it leave behind a physical body that can still take a beating? You're right too about the vampire bat healing being negligible. I may play around with launching dire bats from afar or plague/hungry bats. Spirit walk is a great addition, since that will replenish 30% of the mana and get out of trouble! Good call with Pierce the Veil too, since this build has fast mana/low casting cost so it can afford the 30% mana premium to do 20% more damage. At level 30, I'll pick up the Spirit Vessel passive, which will help me cast Spirit Walk and Soul Harvest more often.
I don't want to ruin your dreams m8 but soul harvest on beta gave +30(not + 130) intelligence per monster(up to 5 stacks),so that is like 150 intellegence on 5 stacks.Still powerful but not even close on that you described!
Thanks for the info. I just found a comment on a thread on diablo 3's forum saying that Soul Harvest gives you 2 intelligence per level w/ a base of 10 and it maxes out at 130 at level 60. If accurate, that would explain why you were getting around 30 intelligence per soul in the Beta and why it says 130 intelligence on the official skill calculator.
Soul harvest does not give you 650% more dps when you use it in beta. Where does this come from?
Each soul that is harvested gives you +130 intelligence, which can be stacked up to five times. That is 650 intelligence. Since intelligence is the WD's primary attribute, his DPS goes up by 1% for each point of intelligence. Many people in the beta said this was over powered; however, some argued that later in the game 650 intelligence won't be as powerful because your equipment gives you more attribute points. Regardless, it is very powerful and wrecks havoc.
In an ideal situation, this is how this build would play:
1. Haunt 2 enemies (gain 310 life per second, down 200 mana)
2. Soul Harvest 5 creatures (Gain 200 mana, 650% more DPS)
3. Spam Vampire Bats at 85% cost (blood ritual) for a total of 800% increase DPS.
Let's say your weapon does 25 damage,the Vampire bats would do 600 damage per second at LEVEL 22! This is based upon the firebat spell being cast/channeled three times per second (25 weapon damage * 3 times channeled per second * 800% Soul Harvest and Bat DPS modifiers).
The idea is to Spam Firebats for long periods of time through Blood Ritual. To compensate the life drain of Blood Ritual, the Firebats heal through the vampire rune and the Soul Harvest will heal too. Considering this witch Doctor will have to get near the enemies for Soul Harvest AND Firebats, I figured Grasp of the Dead was essential for CC.
Any thoughts? Now here's a question for any excel spreadsheet players, how long will I be able to spam the Firebats at level 22? I've heard Firebats take 330 mana per second. Which means I will be losing 50 life per second, but gaining 2.5% of 150% of the damage done per second. Plus the effects of Soul Harvest, which can increase the DPS by 650%.
Is this a conceivable build? Or is this suicidal?
[edit 5/10/12] Here is the level 30 Blood Ritual Doc build after listening to everyone's feedback. Thanks everyone!
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Well said. There is tremendous value to paying only 85% mana cost of spells (w/ blood ritual) vs 130% mana cost with Pierce the Veil. Max mana is overrated, because in boss fights you'll only have max mana once, and that is when you begin the fight. Regen is what matters. By paying 85% of the mana cost for a spell, you are in essence regenerating 1.17 mana for each 1 point of mana regenerated (1/0.85). On the flip side, if you are paying 130% mana cost of each spell, then you are only effectively regenerating .77 mana for each one point of mana regenerated (1/1.3). In other words a Blood Ritual WD has a 52% greater mana regeneration rate than a Pierce WD. (.4 [difference between regen rate) / .77).
Now if the 4 player group is demolishing the mobs, and you want to make your dent before your teammates crush the enemy, then pierce is awesome. But for maximum damage over time, then Pierce is out.
In other words, it's specialized. I'm using Firebats, which do a LOT of damage, especially with Soul Harvest & 20% more damage. But if you're doing a summoner's build, which is going to be a huge % of WD's out there, then there are much better passives to choose.
In WOW, I remember a priest joining my party and he coudn't heal worth Sh*t, but he did a LOT of DOT damage. It worked & defied expectations. In this case, people may be expecting a small army of miscreants, but instead will get a a heavy firebat breathing DPSer.
Thanks for the response. That's good to know that the mana costs go up as you level. I am also using pierce the veil in combo with blood ritual. So at the end of the day, I'm using two passives to do 20% more damage at 15% more mana cost. Most people who do Pierce the Veil will be paying 30% more mana to do 20% more damage. Is that worth using up two passives for?
I think it's strong in terms of prolonged DPS.
You're right. There needs to be some type of diversion/tanking/kiting mechanic for non-melee characters to survive. I figure with a party of 4, w/ a tank or two, this build will be just fine. If I am soloing or going in w/ minimal tanks, then I may swap out the Gargantuan for the Z dogs. The Gargantuan looks freaking cool, but having 3 dogs may be better at engaging multiple enemies than one big summon. I'll have to see how the game plays out.
Haunt is now a cornerstone of this build, since it is my source of life regen. And Spirit Walk is a great fit, because it gets me out of trouble and replenishes 1/3rd of my mana every 13 seconds (with the spirit vessel passive)! The main point of the build is high DPS bats for prolonged periods of time. At this time, I'm not interested in creating a summoning WD, although it would be cool to build a HUGE army...but not for this build. With the three dogs or the gargantuan, I should be able to stay in the clear and not have to kite around like an ice wizard.
[edit 8:00 pm] Just read this quote from Jay WIlson, "One of the newest pets that we've added to the Witch Doctor, which is the Gargantuan, which is a big giant, kind of, tough zombie creature that is designed more to absorb damage and kind of distract enemies."
GREAT Suggestions! You're right about the Zdogs. They were just kind of thrown in and don't add to the rest of the build. Got a question on spirit walk. Does it leave behind a physical body that can still take a beating? You're right too about the vampire bat healing being negligible. I may play around with launching dire bats from afar or plague/hungry bats. Spirit walk is a great addition, since that will replenish 30% of the mana and get out of trouble! Good call with Pierce the Veil too, since this build has fast mana/low casting cost so it can afford the 30% mana premium to do 20% more damage. At level 30, I'll pick up the Spirit Vessel passive, which will help me cast Spirit Walk and Soul Harvest more often.
Are you sure about this? I haven't seen that bit of info anywhere.
Thanks for the info. I just found a comment on a thread on diablo 3's forum saying that Soul Harvest gives you 2 intelligence per level w/ a base of 10 and it maxes out at 130 at level 60. If accurate, that would explain why you were getting around 30 intelligence per soul in the Beta and why it says 130 intelligence on the official skill calculator.
Each soul that is harvested gives you +130 intelligence, which can be stacked up to five times. That is 650 intelligence. Since intelligence is the WD's primary attribute, his DPS goes up by 1% for each point of intelligence. Many people in the beta said this was over powered; however, some argued that later in the game 650 intelligence won't be as powerful because your equipment gives you more attribute points. Regardless, it is very powerful and wrecks havoc.
I added the Swallow your Soul rune to the Soul Harvest, to pump up mana.
In an ideal situation, this is how this build would play:
1. Haunt 2 enemies (gain 310 life per second, down 200 mana)
2. Soul Harvest 5 creatures (Gain 200 mana, 650% more DPS)
3. Spam Vampire Bats at 85% cost (blood ritual) for a total of 800% increase DPS.
Let's say your weapon does 25 damage, the Vampire bats would do 600 damage per second at LEVEL 22! This is based upon the firebat spell being cast/channeled three times per second (25 weapon damage * 3 times channeled per second * 800% Soul Harvest and Bat DPS modifiers).
The idea is to Spam Firebats for long periods of time through Blood Ritual. To compensate the life drain of Blood Ritual, the Firebats heal through the vampire rune and the Soul Harvest will heal too. Considering this witch Doctor will have to get near the enemies for Soul Harvest AND Firebats, I figured Grasp of the Dead was essential for CC.
Any thoughts? Now here's a question for any excel spreadsheet players, how long will I be able to spam the Firebats at level 22? I've heard Firebats take 330 mana per second. Which means I will be losing 50 life per second, but gaining 2.5% of 150% of the damage done per second. Plus the effects of Soul Harvest, which can increase the DPS by 650%.
Is this a conceivable build? Or is this suicidal?
[edit 5/10/12] Here is the level 30 Blood Ritual Doc build after listening to everyone's feedback. Thanks everyone!