Blizzard has clearly stated that the petless WD is a gimp flavor build, and although it would be more challenging could still do inferno.
Blizzard also said that the game was going to be faced pace action. This is pretty obvious...
If we conclude that the pet WD's pets die instantly, and he can only just barely win each fight. Then that means there would be no chance for a petless WD to succeed in the same situation. It would also mean that the WD would have to wait, note not fast paced, for his pets CD to reset so he could move along to the next group.
You have the gargantuan at higher levels. perhaps when you get to harder difficulties you will replace the dogs with the gargantuan. Surely there will be a way. they would not create a class that would get nuked instantly because that is just plain stupid. We will be getting better gear as the game goes on and replaying end game bosses even on normal will give us better gear to keep surviving. I dont think people should be saying a class is useless or not worth having without having any solid evidence. Of course no one (except the developers) can say for sure what is viable and what isnt
Exactly, these blizz fan boys have taken the concept of inferno being challenging and turned it into this notion of a difficulty that's nearly impossible.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I think it's a given that Zombie Dogs won't survive in Inferno, I think it will be much more about surviving for however long you have left on that 60 second cooldown.
You realize what your are saying right? If they can't survive, then there is no way you can do more than one pull every minute, cuz you got to wait on the CD.
Ohh and you also have to accept that blizzard lied, and that petless WD isnt even going to be remotely viable. And 1 min per group, hardly the fast action paced adventure they promised.
So logic demands that they either stay alive, or the WD is a usless class.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Of course they did because the WD is meant to summon creatures as defense. Even blizz said the petless WD is a gimmick build, in which you are intentionally nerfing yourself.
The heal rune still seems like a nice choice to me.
9%WD -> 4.5% healing for the pet -> 2.25% Weapon Damage healing to you? I'd still take Indigo over that.
unless you have good damage. 2.25% x 3 or x4 with the zombie handler passive. so 9% of your weapon dmg constantly healing you as they attack? ya thats awesome. people are really underestimating that rune. before when the indigo rune was 40% sure it was way better, now that its gimped to a mere 10% id much rather have the healing rune. also its healing them for double that so its keeping you both alive. VS just transfering 10% of your dmg to them and not healing either of you. and since the zombie handler passive got a 40% life nerf your probably going to need more healing for your dogs
Yah and dont forget about the healing to the dogs themselves... They are your tanks after all.
It would really come down to how hard things hit in Inferno.
If Zombie dogs cant stay alive in inferno, then a huge portion of the WD class is borked.
Pets are the backbone of the WD!
To contemplate scenarios where they get 1 shotted is just absurd...How would the game play out? You take on one pull, all your dogs get one shotted, and you narrowly win. And then what? Wait till the CD on zombie dogs comes back? You would have to, cuz if you can just barely do it with them, noway in hell your gonna do it w/o them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Of course they did because the WD is meant to summon creatures as defense. Even blizz said the petless WD is a gimmick build, in which you are intentionally nerfing yourself.
The heal rune still seems like a nice choice to me.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Of course channeled spells are influenced with increased atk speed....otherwise they would all be crap at high gear levels.
You are really grasping at straws ya know. If you like the poison dart thats fine, they did buff it up and make it viable now...but dont go off and say its the king and the best, cuz its not true.
PS: Zombie dogs are not bad either...idk wtf you are smoking, but people will read that crap and prob believe it. They are meatshields, they always were...
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Uhh w/o comparing skills, how do you choose which to pick? Flip coins? Sry, but the people who care about making good builds have to compare skills to theorycraft properly.
Right, so tell me how comparing skills outside of a build is properly theorycrafting?
I wrote: "a little comparing may be worth doing but let's not stretch it too far, they are very different skills, each useful in different situations and, most important, each suits a different gamestyle."
I just wanted to point out that comparing single skills is useful to evaluate their efficiency but to understand how useful a skill will be in a build you have to do a more complete evaluation.
Sorry if my previous post was not clear, hope my position is more comprehensible now.
@Ellixmaji
Agree on what people is trying to figure, I just wanted to point out that there is not a "best solution" without a context nor a solution that suits each different gamestyle. Hope this time I expressed myself better
Yes there are some synergies between skills, but not a ton. Most skills stand on their own merit.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Zombie Charger does less, Haunt does 350% now and its a supportive dps ability not a spam ability, under those circumstances many DoT abilities outdamage Splinter Darts, as they should.
Hungry Bats + Passive can counter Splinter Darts, but so could Splinter Darts + Passive put it back on top, so only Hungry Bats + Pierce + Vermin can actually full outdamage Splinter and you're giving up 2 passives to pull it off, nevermind the fact we don't know how it actually functions unfortunately.
I'm not sure why you're so adamant about Splinter Darts being bad, especially when you're using out-dated information in your arguements.
You are the one who wanted to talk about PURE single target dps...So what if you have to use 1 extra passive, for PURE single target dps hungry bats are better.
You looked at un-runed zombie charger.....with any rune it should outdmg poison dart. And even if it doesnt, who cares? Its still WAY WAY better in most situations...who cares if it does 5% less dmg?
Poison dart is king of jack and shit, and jack left to hang out with the Firebats.
You might have more updated information, but they don't make you take an IQ test to get into beta.
I think its kind of funny the loopholes you will jump through to try to not seem dumb. I called you out on bad information, and you bring up some BS argument about pure dps. I even prove that wrong, and now all thats left is ad hominem.
Sad, truly sad.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
What are people talking about?
Crimson Firebomb does 190% dmg as AoE.
Hungry bats hit for 200% wpn dmg, 240% w/ Vermin.
Posion dart still sucks ass. In fact with the huge nerf to Snake to the Face for PvP, i can't even think of a use for it now.
Edit: Dogs suck? LOL!
poison dart actually rules with the first rune. do u have the beta? its quite nice. 210% insta dmg
Its the beta...and runes drastically increase the potency of spells, generally. So of course it does good...but that doesnt meant its still going to be worth using in end game, just slightly more viable. Lots of abilities put up similar numbers and do actual aoe dmg.
As far as straight damage on demand the only abilities standing up to Poison Dart at the moment is a Vermin/Pierce Crimson Firebats, Zombie Charger, and Spirit Barrage. Two of those abilities cost significantly more than Poison Dart, as far as pure single target damage goes, Poison Dart is now the supreme king.
How is it the king again? So many competitors that do competitive or better dmg + AoE, and cost roughly the same..... Ohh and they have a much greater margin of erron in aiming as well.
They made poison dart viable, but its not king of shit.
Take note of how I said "Pure Single Target Damage" which is really indisputable, I don't know what else to tell you bud. Nothing except for Spirit Barrage does more damage in a 1 second duration than Splinter Darts, and Spirit Barrage costs 3x the mana of Splinter Dart and outdamages it by 5%. I really don't see how this is debatable.
Splinter Darts is the Boss Killer spam of choice.
Well Idk what to tell you, but you are dead wrong....heck even you said so.
Zombie Charger, Hungry Bats(+Passive) both do more Pure Single Target Dmg than posion dart, and have significant advantages. Haunt is 500% wpn dmg for 1 GCD, though you cant spam it.
I could prob find more if I tried, but I dont have all the updated info either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
What are people talking about?
Crimson Firebomb does 190% dmg as AoE.
Hungry bats hit for 200% wpn dmg, 240% w/ Vermin.
Posion dart still sucks ass. In fact with the huge nerf to Snake to the Face for PvP, i can't even think of a use for it now.
Edit: Dogs suck? LOL!
poison dart actually rules with the first rune. do u have the beta? its quite nice. 210% insta dmg
Its the beta...and runes drastically increase the potency of spells, generally. So of course it does good...but that doesnt meant its still going to be worth using in end game, just slightly more viable. Lots of abilities put up similar numbers and do actual aoe dmg.
As far as straight damage on demand the only abilities standing up to Poison Dart at the moment is a Vermin/Pierce Crimson Firebats, Zombie Charger, and Spirit Barrage. Two of those abilities cost significantly more than Poison Dart, as far as pure single target damage goes, Poison Dart is now the supreme king.
How is it the king again? So many competitors that do competitive or better dmg + AoE, and cost roughly the same..... Ohh and they have a much greater margin of erron in aiming as well.
They made poison dart viable, but its not king of shit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Thanks Ellixmaji for the recap, it's very much appreciated.
WD undergo some tweaking and I think if they made a so widespread nerfing maybe it was needed.
Also we lack info on items affixes/suffixes, if they affect skills (increasing damage, reducing cost, reducing CD, etc) they can change our approach to skills.
As things are right now I think some builds will be way less effective than before, but we'll find ways to make them work, as we did before.
On a side note: I've seen people compare non-targetable single target skills (Poison Dart) against targetable single target DoT skills (Haunt) or even non targetable AoE skills (Fire Bomb)....a little comparing may be worth doing but let's not stretch it too far, they are very different skills, each useful in different situations and, most important, each suits a different gamestyle.
Uhh w/o comparing skills, how do you choose which to pick? Flip coins? Sry, but the people who care about making good builds have to compare skills to theorycraft properly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
What are people talking about?
Crimson Firebomb does 190% dmg as AoE.
Hungry bats hit for 200% wpn dmg, 240% w/ Vermin.
Posion dart still sucks ass. In fact with the huge nerf to Snake to the Face for PvP, i can't even think of a use for it now.
Edit: Dogs suck? LOL!
poison dart actually rules with the first rune. do u have the beta? its quite nice. 210% insta dmg
Its the beta...and runes drastically increase the potency of spells, generally. So of course it does good...but that doesnt meant its still going to be worth using in end game, just slightly more viable. Lots of abilities put up similar numbers and do actual aoe dmg.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
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Blizzard also said that the game was going to be faced pace action. This is pretty obvious...
If we conclude that the pet WD's pets die instantly, and he can only just barely win each fight. Then that means there would be no chance for a petless WD to succeed in the same situation. It would also mean that the WD would have to wait, note not fast paced, for his pets CD to reset so he could move along to the next group.
No its logical reasoning, not opinion.
"Lolz, inferno is just too hard" does not merit rational thinking in my book.
Exactly, these blizz fan boys have taken the concept of inferno being challenging and turned it into this notion of a difficulty that's nearly impossible.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
You realize what your are saying right? If they can't survive, then there is no way you can do more than one pull every minute, cuz you got to wait on the CD.
Ohh and you also have to accept that blizzard lied, and that petless WD isnt even going to be remotely viable. And 1 min per group, hardly the fast action paced adventure they promised.
So logic demands that they either stay alive, or the WD is a usless class.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yah and dont forget about the healing to the dogs themselves... They are your tanks after all.
If Zombie dogs cant stay alive in inferno, then a huge portion of the WD class is borked.
Pets are the backbone of the WD!
To contemplate scenarios where they get 1 shotted is just absurd...How would the game play out? You take on one pull, all your dogs get one shotted, and you narrowly win. And then what? Wait till the CD on zombie dogs comes back? You would have to, cuz if you can just barely do it with them, noway in hell your gonna do it w/o them.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The heal rune still seems like a nice choice to me.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
You are really grasping at straws ya know. If you like the poison dart thats fine, they did buff it up and make it viable now...but dont go off and say its the king and the best, cuz its not true.
PS: Zombie dogs are not bad either...idk wtf you are smoking, but people will read that crap and prob believe it. They are meatshields, they always were...
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yes there are some synergies between skills, but not a ton. Most skills stand on their own merit.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
You are the one who wanted to talk about PURE single target dps...So what if you have to use 1 extra passive, for PURE single target dps hungry bats are better.
You looked at un-runed zombie charger.....with any rune it should outdmg poison dart. And even if it doesnt, who cares? Its still WAY WAY better in most situations...who cares if it does 5% less dmg?
Poison dart is king of jack and shit, and jack left to hang out with the Firebats.
You might have more updated information, but they don't make you take an IQ test to get into beta.
I think its kind of funny the loopholes you will jump through to try to not seem dumb. I called you out on bad information, and you bring up some BS argument about pure dps. I even prove that wrong, and now all thats left is ad hominem.
Sad, truly sad.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Well Idk what to tell you, but you are dead wrong....heck even you said so.
Zombie Charger, Hungry Bats(+Passive) both do more Pure Single Target Dmg than posion dart, and have significant advantages. Haunt is 500% wpn dmg for 1 GCD, though you cant spam it.
I could prob find more if I tried, but I dont have all the updated info either.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
How is it the king again? So many competitors that do competitive or better dmg + AoE, and cost roughly the same..... Ohh and they have a much greater margin of erron in aiming as well.
They made poison dart viable, but its not king of shit.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Uhh w/o comparing skills, how do you choose which to pick? Flip coins? Sry, but the people who care about making good builds have to compare skills to theorycraft properly.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!