DiabloFans

I have a level 80 and had a level 43 but deleted him because I didn't like the class and wanted the name back, and now I have a few low level alts. So pfft.

You're arguing split second actions in WoW are somehow different from ones in most mmo's but they're not. The only difference is a lot of mmo's make it easier to recover if you don't take that split second action. WoW has plenty of places where it's not as important (questing, dungeons) just like Guildwars 2 has places where it is just as important, (PvP, some boss encounters where you can literally be one shot if you don't dodge) whether people choose to make use of those split second actions to full potential is up to them.

I'm not saying all guilds throw themselves at bosses, I said the good ones make use of the reaction time. Timing is very important in a lot of MMOs.

Knowing exactly when to use the right skill is important in a lot of games. You're saying somehow WoW is a special situation, but it's not. Most games and encounters just end up getting nerfed because people don't want to make those fast reactions and the content ends up feeling too hard so they nerf it.

This also has nothing to do with WoW's engine. The amount of weight and importance they put behind some abilities has nothing to do with the engine. Designing a 8 second CC is a design choice of the skill and the mechanics.

My point is it's no more or less important in WoW than it is any other MMO, or game in general. If people choose to not make the most of timing then they won't be as good as they could be. The only reason it's highlighted more in WoW is because WoW has been around a long time and is very popular. Also I'm not sure why you feel the need to come "defend the old mammoth" because I don't remember seeing anyone attacking WoW for you to need to defend it.

PvP in any game is about split second timing. Even shooters are about split second timing, and although there is no 3v3 in Gw2, the system works no different.

Raiding I never really cared for in the first place, requires too much time, but I can say having done some of it and watching it progress more and more over the years that throwing your body into the boss until the stars align and the right situation allows you to down it doesn't take a whole lot of skill.Sure there are guilds who are far better at it but that again just comes down to basic reaction times.

The reason WoW is more known for these things is because it has a established fanbase that we see more often.

Well it sounds to me like yeah he did something right if he managed to stay at full HP.

To say you won't see people chaining CC either is a little presumptuous. You don't see that a lot in casual PvP in WoW either. You see that from the people who PvP a lot. You're acting like it's impossible when in fact it's completely possible you just have to adjust to knowing when and coordinating with your team, like in WoW.

Nothing is just a thing you "do". That can be said about any game if you use the term so loosely. You activate a skill to counter another just like in WoW. It's not automatic. There are passive bonuses on some signets but to actually use them effectively in PvP you have to activate them. Just like in WoW you have a passive stat on a trinket but to make use of it you activate it.

You don't need to know what they're casting, if you're that serious about PvP you'll know what each classes weapon set has to offer, it doesn't need to be on a named bar to know what might be coming at you.

I think you're getting very hung up on what plays different about the game and not liking the fact it plays different. All of the core stuff you've mentioned is still there.

You're wrong on every one of those points though. That's why I'm thinking you didn't even dig that deep into the game to see skills or traits.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/2686-moa-morph - polymorph type cc
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3411-renewed-focus - Short invulnerability like bubble etc
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/259-throw-bolas - Slowing CC
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/45-endure-pain - Another invulnerable cooldown
There are plenty more, that's a few examples.

Spell interruption doesn't really exist because all classes skills are action based and very view require an actual cast time longer than a second or so. You DO have what's essentially the same thing though in knockdowns, fears, blinds, and other abilities you use on your enemy and they can't attack for a short time.

Here is just a small list of examples.

Knockdowns:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3990-tripwire

Blind:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3997-signet-of-shadows

Knockback:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/14959-throw-mine


Fear:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/226-fear-me

Stun:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/4357-signet-of-domination

Confusion:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/2543-confusing-images


And then you havethings like stability which grants short immunity to some of those effects:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/317-balanced-stance

Or retaliation which lets you reflect damage:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3410-stand-your-ground

These are all just one link examples and almost every class has a good mixture of these.

Also cleansing is fine. Why does it need to be specific. If I'm taking damage from poison or damage from shadow word pain it doesn't matter to me I want it off. Maybe what you're meaning is some DoT's are stronger and need to be cleansed, well thats possible and true.

Bleed and vulnerability effects stack in effect so when they stack higher you definitely want them cleansed more.
Poison and burns stack in duration, the last thing you want is a burn effect that will last until you can no longer heal and die so you cleanse it.
If its a shorter effect it's not worth blowing your cleanse on.

Basically everything you just mentioned it not having it has.

There are no duels no but structured PvP can often come down to 1v1 or 2v1 or 2v2 and knowing when to use these cooldowns can save your life.

If you're expecting to just launch the game and master the system from how you're used to playing WoW and other MMO's then yes you're going to have a difficult time wrapping your head around the differences.

If you make a statement about something that's not even possible that's speculation based on opinion.

Quote from jwylie311

There is PvP that is essentially like every other mmo with PvP

There's just simply no way that anything in GW2 can take the skill and required intelligence of some WoW duels or Arena fights. And thats just one example. I also felt that the dueling and small-group PvP in SWTOR was more relient on skill.

Tactics, thats fine. Push this node, split up and you guys go this way, we go this way. That's all well and good. But there's nothing like "saving your kick for penance"....or "cleansing vampiric touch" etc. etc.

You're right it's more akin to battle ground than arenas but there is definitely some situations when the odds are against you and the skills you purchase with upgrades (7-9) do exactly what you described, break CC, cleanse things, knockdown to interrupt channels.

Besides that I can't really argue the rest of the post because it's your opinion and play style.

Well the issue is you keep tossing around all these vague subjective terms like "low depth" "deep" "skillful". I'm not sure what you're looking for. There are no raids if that's what you're looking for. There is PvP that is essentially like every other mmo with PvP

There are dungeons which are pretty difficult and then explorable modes for them which are harder. At level 80 there are world bosses which will function similar to a small raid.

Structured PvP very much takes skill and the traits you can choose and the way you can build your character is very far from "low depth" in my opinion.

Also:

This just sounds like the typical Guild Wars 2 self-lie. It's okay because Guild Wars 2 did it! Not someone else...

All I was saying is pretty much every game has those basic archtypes and that's fine because its what people want for the most part, that's why we keep seeing them. Most people like familiar feeling classes.


You seem dead set on hating the game though for whatever reason I'm not sure. What do you think its lacking? At it's core, not leveling is too slow, etc. Is it some sort of endgame?

So for me just reading some of your points:

1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.

That's true, and for some that's a good thing. There still is very much the possibility of you playing either more supportively or more defensively.

2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.

Did you happen to miss out on traits or skill points you earn with levels? To me that feels like a lot of long term self synergy and variety.

3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.

Maybe in the starting zones but that becomes less apparent as you break away from the crowd. I don't find playing with others a bad thing though in GW2. The fact that you all get exp and your own loot from mobs makes interacting with others rewarding instead of someone just trying to tag your mob or steal your gathering node, you have your own gathering nodes too.

4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping

No idea what you're talking about here. I've never played a class in any other game like the mesmer.

Sure a lot of archtypes are there though, thief = rogue, warrior = warrior, guardian = paladinish, ranger = hunter, these archtypes are comfortable and cover aspects that most people look for and enjoy.

5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.

World PvP can be like that if you follow the pack. Last night though me and a group of nine guild mates snuck behind enemy lines and kept a supply point for quite some time which really hindered the enemies ability to defend their forts. I find it really enjoyable with friends but I can agree its easy to get lost in the crowd.

However that's only world vs world PvP, there is still structured PvP which is about like PvP in every other MMO.

6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.

Not sure which idea you mean. The events? Those aren't new ideas, many games have tried that, most notably Rift but this has taken that turd and polished it to a very enjoying nugget of gold.

7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense

If you try to level between just quests and events, yes it will get slow. A good way to speed it up though is by incorporating World VS World PVP, gathering and crafting, or exploring zones fully which you get rewards and exp for.

Crafting can be very tricky because unlike most MMO's you're not encouraged to make the same sword for 15 skill levels, you want to use your materials to make discoveries which are essentially recipes. You are rewarded with a lot more exp for discoveries as well as using less of your valuable crafting materials making the same items repeatedly.

8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.

Not sure what you mean by this either. I really enjoy the fact it's non-subscription and the fact that I've already sunk 66 hours in and many more to come makes it worth the money to me. That is all really subjective though depending on the person. I haven't seen anything they tried to "fit into a lower budget" though.

I'm having a great time, more so than I expected actually which is a nice feeling.