No you don't have a choice, not yet anyways. It puts you up against a (premade) team of "near skill/power" (hidden match making value/rating) players. You can't goof off vs your friends, duel people 1v1, play in a last man standing kinda fashion, make your own rules, choose various fighting(map) environments etc, all we've been promised thus far is a 3 vs 3 barebones arena. That doesn't mean something else isn't in the works, but it does mean that it is all which is likely to pop up any time soon.
We don't know what the updated Arena will offer. So saying you won't be able to is just wrong. It would be more supported by the community to ask for the ability to choose team vs team, duel, etc for Arena then try jam a system into the game that the majority of players don't want.
What I think is a better idea yet is to give players the option of turning their public/private game into a HOSTILITY one, and when other players choose to join, they can pick what kind of game they want to participate in, labeled with hostility or non-hostility. Games can only be turned hostile by the original player and cannot be changed afterward. Public non-hostile games cannot be changed to hostile ones.
I mean, the biggest problem that Blizzard had with hostility is griefing, right? If that's the case, this would be a perfect compromise. Players only go into hostile games to pvp, and non-hostile games to do everything else.
I'm not even a big pvper, but I think this is a good idea. Tie hostility into a game type, not give individual players the choice of going hostile.
Edit, wait - I don't see any idea not to tie mine into the OP's idea. I think that would be OK, and it would remove any of the developers' contentions.
The main issue with doing this is that it would be adding a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use rather then just implementing dueling into Arena. Using Diablo 2 as an example, the majority of players made private games specifically to avoid hostility. If the trend stays, then these hostility games would also have very high queue times leaving even less incentive to implement the feature. Honestly, its just a bad feature for Diablo 3.
K so I join your game with my brother. We decide that you know what... were gonna go do a different part of the act and not work with you, or you know what...were gonna gather all of the lore we can and really savor every moment of the game. Mess with the blacksmith for a few hours maybe, respawn the merchant gear for an hour or so... So tell me..hows that PvM going for you? Oh...I didn't just do the exact thing that you said dueling would do to you did I?
Before someone posts "Oh that wouldn't happen!" Oh it would, actually I am pretty inclined to do just that, because of these conversations we have here. The ignorance in most of these posts and the white knights that ride into the PvP section that have no reason to be here other then to try and talk down to PvP'ers, is exactly why the hostile system suited me so well over the years, it was simple. You spew BS, I hit a button and boom...no more BS, perfect bliss.
So, because we aren't still devoting our lives to a dead game (D2) it means we have no right to an opinion about a game we are interested in (D3)? I'm sorry, but I left D2 because it was dated, there are much better games out now with PvP options I enjoy more. Your blind obedience to D2's style of play seems to come from putting blinders on and ignoring the fact that the world moved on.
Stop acting like you're so superior Adon, waving around claims of being so amazing in a dead game 12~ years after it was released. Why don't you instead actually listen to what the majority of players are talking about and realize WHY we don't want things the way you do...or are you too caught up in your D2 ways that you must resort to belittlement and ego fluffing?
All the more reason for threads and moreover movements and popular opinion be expressed like this.
Not a reason to complain that Diablo 3 won't have Diablo 2 PvP though. Blizzard has given their stance on PvP and said it will be in the form of Arena. Thus, asking for dueling in Arena would be a viable suggestion (and would get my support). However, that is not what happens generally. Instead we get demands that Blizzard is bad because they won't smash PvP into PvM where the majority of players (and Blizzard) doesn't want it. Right..... .. . .
As far as the "arena experience" goes what we've been told about the arena looked fairly completed back in 2008 so I don't know how hard it could possibly be to implement an existing working system.
Except they specifically said that the previous Arena system was NOT what was going into the official PvP system after launch. If they were going to use what they had in 2008, they wouldn't be delaying PvP implementation and development till after release.
I agree with slayer, a lot of people will always default to pvp when the content is cleared regardless of whether or not the reverse is true, that much is true. This gives them time to work in more pvp into either the arena or as polled in this topic (and received 2 to 1) adding it to private games. Most people who bother playing to 60 once will bother playing to 60 on additional characters as well, for them that is the additional content. It's after that (and the clearing of inferno) when pvp interested players will begin to quit if there is no dueling/private pvp match creation etc in the works.
Why would people quit because there if there was no private PvP system? Its certainly seems that Blizzards goal is a more public environment, why would they try and focus on private? Where they should devote their PvP resources is improving the Arena experience. However, as we don't even know what will be available complaining that they aren't offering enough seems quite silly.
When did they say they were going to add content? From all the blue posts i've seen ... our only content updates are xpacs. The updates wil be items being added.....
Not sure how you expect me to find one blue post that I read randomly sometime in the past year or so. It just talked about how the RMAH would benefit the game and how they probably couldn't manage weekly quest additions, but perhaps monthly or bi~monthly.
I'm curious on what "useful" content updates will be unless it's a significant upgrade or large scale balance change I don't see how monthly content upgrades can keep me into a game... just reminds me of people sucking on the WoW tit. In most cases once content is masted the default option is to PvP. I get that the RMAH will help with additional patches but to what extent?
They probably won't be some kind of giant addition. That is what expansions are for. These will likely be more like additional random event areas that appear or special quests during holidays, etc. You might find 'the default option' to be PvP, however, a good number of us actually enjoy playing the game to fight monsters as well as PvP and inferno should give us a lot of fun in that regard.
I could could care less about PvP, but Adon is right. PvP is the prime focus on longevity for a Diablo game. The benefits I see from D3 is I might actually play an public game and I'll probably get into arena when I'm maxed and bored.
Seriously though watching you two talk is hilarious.
Adon may be right about Diablo 2. However, that doesn't really apply to Diablo 3. I expect that we'll see quite a bit of both PvM and PvP content to extend the life of the game. I mean, Blizzard already made posts stating they expect to be able to do monthly / bi~monthly PvM content updates due to the added funds generated by the RMAH.
Yea great, it has hardcore PvM'ers interested...they will surely support such a feature and enhance the longevity of it(NOT).
It's ok, with the race for drops taken out of the game it will solve a lot of the fighting. There will still be arguing though, that I am confident of. I didn't play 12+ years with millions of players in this community to not get a feel for how they act. You might not see it now, but later on it will come, it always does.
Arguing over who is wrong or right is pointless, you seem to be basing everything off of the here and now, which you are correct. Everything will be peachy here and now. I am talking about the longevity of the game, the prime years if you will. In which case my experience will prove me correct.
Actually, you do realize that your experience with the game actually proves me correct. You've talked about harassing players with hostility, beating people in completely unfair 1v7's, etc. Your experiences there are the exact reasons why an integrated and separated PvP system is better for the game. Thanks. ^-^
It is cumbersome. The way you are seeing it and saying it is that you either want to do 1 or the other. You are drawing a picture that NO ONE would EVER want to PvP while they are PvMing, and that NO ONE would EVER become upset because they suddenly decided "Oh hey, lets duel real quick" and then find out they have to make a new game to do just that.
You also seem to forget how the community of Diablo operates. It is a competitive game, whether you want to think so or not or whatever Blizzard wants to think. People are competing to become the best player, they compete with killing monsters, they compete with gear, compete with riches, and compete in PvP. They will argue, and they will fight...A LOT, and they will want to duel to settle it, just like they have for the past 12+ years. Making them have to jump through hoops to do so will only piss the community off, face it. It is a shotty design and it will be corrected, just wait.
You forget that your style of playing isn't the average gamer anymore. Sure heavy competition may have been the case back when Diablo 2 was popular...now days though, the general gamer tends to play games on a cell phone more often then their PC. I played through every class in D3 already around 5-10 times, almost completely via public games. Guess what...no arguing really, no competing over gear, no competing over gold, nothing like that. People just wanted to play and have fun. If I got a really kewl piece of gear and linked it...people never tried to fight me for it. So no... I don't think people will want to constantly fight other players the way you describe, at least not the majority of players. Heck, a good example is WoW (as WoW is a large RPG with dueling)...I've never once in my seven or so years of playing it had a duel request to settle a dispute. Any duel request I've ever had has either been griefing, or messing around outside of town with a couple friends. I don't see duels serving the purpose you suggest they will at all.
Face it, Adon...you're a minority in the gamer community now. That isn't a bad thing, but gaming has changed and evolved. Blizzard is just keeping up with that evolution by catering more to what the new community wants. Those people like yourself that want the hardcore elitist PvP are a minority of a minority. This is especially true in a game like Diablo where the primary focus is the storyline/campaign. In games like this, PvP is an extra for those that want it. I'd say that Blizzard is actually doing great with its design as their Arena system actually has hardcore PvM players mildly interested in PvP and that says something.
Since you won't likely read my two paragraphs above, I'll make it simple.... YOU....ARE....WRONG.
Poor poor chip, getting jumped by all of the PvM'ers.
My argument still stands, there should be a waypoint to the arena in game. We should not have to leave the game to duel, it is a cumbersome design and I fully expect them to correct it. We should also have the option to customize the arena into different rule sets. 1v7 - 4v4 should all be applicable and in game for us to decide on.
It's not a cumbersome design actually. Given the design of the game overall, moving PvP to its own game-mode actually is the only viable way to have a public PvP system. Implementing a private only PvP system into PvM only confuses people, can be used for griefing, and diverts resources. The design of Diablo 3 is that you are either PvPing or you are PvMing. You aren't meant to be doing both at the same time, period. Considering this design, it would be better for those that want more out of PvP to be asking for additional Arena features and not trying to change PvM so they can PvP in it.
I don't really care what other people have complained about. I've made polls about ideas for change whether be an idea of my own making or someone else's. I'm also fine with more features being added to arena to the same effect as you well know. With that said, this could also work and it wouldn't ruin anyone's gameplay experience just the same. All those votes for either hostility and duels could have been simply hostility, seeing as how hostility is just another way to duel to the death, but it also shows people are still enthusiastic about pvp and will take whatever they can get.
The way I see it, they are basically two ways of going about the same thing. PvP doesn't always have to be instanced to be done right, as private games are instances in themselves and particular to games like diablo and not typical modern mmorpg's. I just don't think it's right for you to flip flop on your own idea because you started to believe it might trick more players into asking for a griefing system in the oh so precious public quest system (which after everything I have read on these forums, I probably will rarely ever venture into.)
Why develop a system for a game mode that is not meant to be PvP when they could just implement it for Arena instead? I see very little benefit to implementing dueling for private PvM games. Especially when Blizzard is putting the effort towards a full PvP system integrated into the game. Seems adding a private duel system would be counter productive if they want to drive people to Arenas.
I changed my mind because the more I thought about the whole thing, the more I thought it was a rather pointless addition. I'd rather see the resources put towards making Arena better then towards a feature that muddies the focus of PvM.
How can you say that (time and time again) with the way the votes are stacked up here alone. It's almost two to one. I understand resources, but also understand that a good many people see this as worth the (limited amount of) resources it'd take to implement in a patch or expansion down the road. I mean to be honest a lot of people who care about pvp have all but given up discussing it here because everytime they come post a handfull of people who want little to nothing to do with pvp in general come and smack them upside the head with pvm, which is cool and all, but this is the pvp forum after all as well. I didn't come into the pvp forum to talk about how we should save more resources for pvm The argument started out as "one player should not be able to ruin another player's gaming experience" to "blizzard doesn't have time to cater to both parties, my party wins, stop posting beating dead horse".
The majority are for hostility? Even in private games, the majority of votes in this poll alone show that they are not for hostility. I'd be also interested to see how many people would even care at all about dueling in private games if Arena offered a 1v1 duel option. Its not like Blizzard blindly decided to implement Arenas as the form of PvP for Diablo 3 either. Its a system that works very well in WoW, and has the potential to introduce a lot more players that would otherwise ignore PvP into it.
Why do people keep coming into the PvP forums and shooting down suggestions? Its because the majority of the threads are started as complaints revolving around Diablo 3 not being Diablo 2 with better graphics. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree to that kinda thing. I would rather see a duel option in Arena as Arena is how Blizzard plans on developing integrated PvP for Diablo 3. Open world games are PvM games and I've heard no good argument to the contrary. You may have to join a new game to PvP, but the majority of players did that anyways in Diablo 2 even...so where's the issue?
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
You didn't really give a reason they SHOULD bring back hostility/dueling really. Diablo 3 PvP isn't actually ranked in that you cannot see your rank at all. In addition, the Arena system is a much easier way to get decent PvP when you want it as it has a matchmaking system that takes gear into account. Why would the average player prefer hostility/duels in private games over an integrated system that levels the playing field?
The beta is just that, the beta. It doesn't have the population to sustain consistent questing over all levels and as such you end up with wait times occasionally. This can drive people towards private games as they don't want to wait. Especially when there are only 13 levels that are playable. However, once the game goes live that will no longer be an issue as the population goes from a few hundred thousand playing at once to millions. So don't think that beta is any indication of public / private usage.
You seem fixated on my comment about resources, be failed to recognize WHY I said it wouldn't be worth the resources. I specifically said that the reason it wouldn't be worth doing is because it'd be a NEGATIVE impact on the community. As others have stated here it is still likely it would be used for griefing despite it being private games. It would also give rise to more complaints about such features not being in public games.
Tell me this, what benefit does dueling/hostility offer that an Arena mode for dueling/FFA wouldn't offer?
We don't know what the updated Arena will offer. So saying you won't be able to is just wrong. It would be more supported by the community to ask for the ability to choose team vs team, duel, etc for Arena then try jam a system into the game that the majority of players don't want.
The main issue with doing this is that it would be adding a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use rather then just implementing dueling into Arena. Using Diablo 2 as an example, the majority of players made private games specifically to avoid hostility. If the trend stays, then these hostility games would also have very high queue times leaving even less incentive to implement the feature. Honestly, its just a bad feature for Diablo 3.
So, because we aren't still devoting our lives to a dead game (D2) it means we have no right to an opinion about a game we are interested in (D3)? I'm sorry, but I left D2 because it was dated, there are much better games out now with PvP options I enjoy more. Your blind obedience to D2's style of play seems to come from putting blinders on and ignoring the fact that the world moved on.
Stop acting like you're so superior Adon, waving around claims of being so amazing in a dead game 12~ years after it was released. Why don't you instead actually listen to what the majority of players are talking about and realize WHY we don't want things the way you do...or are you too caught up in your D2 ways that you must resort to belittlement and ego fluffing?
Not a reason to complain that Diablo 3 won't have Diablo 2 PvP though. Blizzard has given their stance on PvP and said it will be in the form of Arena. Thus, asking for dueling in Arena would be a viable suggestion (and would get my support). However, that is not what happens generally. Instead we get demands that Blizzard is bad because they won't smash PvP into PvM where the majority of players (and Blizzard) doesn't want it. Right..... .. . .
Except they specifically said that the previous Arena system was NOT what was going into the official PvP system after launch. If they were going to use what they had in 2008, they wouldn't be delaying PvP implementation and development till after release.
Why would people quit because there if there was no private PvP system? Its certainly seems that Blizzards goal is a more public environment, why would they try and focus on private? Where they should devote their PvP resources is improving the Arena experience. However, as we don't even know what will be available complaining that they aren't offering enough seems quite silly.
Not sure how you expect me to find one blue post that I read randomly sometime in the past year or so. It just talked about how the RMAH would benefit the game and how they probably couldn't manage weekly quest additions, but perhaps monthly or bi~monthly.
They probably won't be some kind of giant addition. That is what expansions are for. These will likely be more like additional random event areas that appear or special quests during holidays, etc. You might find 'the default option' to be PvP, however, a good number of us actually enjoy playing the game to fight monsters as well as PvP and inferno should give us a lot of fun in that regard.
Adon may be right about Diablo 2. However, that doesn't really apply to Diablo 3. I expect that we'll see quite a bit of both PvM and PvP content to extend the life of the game. I mean, Blizzard already made posts stating they expect to be able to do monthly / bi~monthly PvM content updates due to the added funds generated by the RMAH.
As for the hilarity, I can only agree. ^-^
Actually, you do realize that your experience with the game actually proves me correct. You've talked about harassing players with hostility, beating people in completely unfair 1v7's, etc. Your experiences there are the exact reasons why an integrated and separated PvP system is better for the game. Thanks. ^-^
You forget that your style of playing isn't the average gamer anymore. Sure heavy competition may have been the case back when Diablo 2 was popular...now days though, the general gamer tends to play games on a cell phone more often then their PC. I played through every class in D3 already around 5-10 times, almost completely via public games. Guess what...no arguing really, no competing over gear, no competing over gold, nothing like that. People just wanted to play and have fun. If I got a really kewl piece of gear and linked it...people never tried to fight me for it. So no... I don't think people will want to constantly fight other players the way you describe, at least not the majority of players. Heck, a good example is WoW (as WoW is a large RPG with dueling)...I've never once in my seven or so years of playing it had a duel request to settle a dispute. Any duel request I've ever had has either been griefing, or messing around outside of town with a couple friends. I don't see duels serving the purpose you suggest they will at all.
Face it, Adon...you're a minority in the gamer community now. That isn't a bad thing, but gaming has changed and evolved. Blizzard is just keeping up with that evolution by catering more to what the new community wants. Those people like yourself that want the hardcore elitist PvP are a minority of a minority. This is especially true in a game like Diablo where the primary focus is the storyline/campaign. In games like this, PvP is an extra for those that want it. I'd say that Blizzard is actually doing great with its design as their Arena system actually has hardcore PvM players mildly interested in PvP and that says something.
Since you won't likely read my two paragraphs above, I'll make it simple.... YOU....ARE....WRONG.
It's not a cumbersome design actually. Given the design of the game overall, moving PvP to its own game-mode actually is the only viable way to have a public PvP system. Implementing a private only PvP system into PvM only confuses people, can be used for griefing, and diverts resources. The design of Diablo 3 is that you are either PvPing or you are PvMing. You aren't meant to be doing both at the same time, period. Considering this design, it would be better for those that want more out of PvP to be asking for additional Arena features and not trying to change PvM so they can PvP in it.
Why develop a system for a game mode that is not meant to be PvP when they could just implement it for Arena instead? I see very little benefit to implementing dueling for private PvM games. Especially when Blizzard is putting the effort towards a full PvP system integrated into the game. Seems adding a private duel system would be counter productive if they want to drive people to Arenas.
I changed my mind because the more I thought about the whole thing, the more I thought it was a rather pointless addition. I'd rather see the resources put towards making Arena better then towards a feature that muddies the focus of PvM.
The majority are for hostility? Even in private games, the majority of votes in this poll alone show that they are not for hostility. I'd be also interested to see how many people would even care at all about dueling in private games if Arena offered a 1v1 duel option. Its not like Blizzard blindly decided to implement Arenas as the form of PvP for Diablo 3 either. Its a system that works very well in WoW, and has the potential to introduce a lot more players that would otherwise ignore PvP into it.
Why do people keep coming into the PvP forums and shooting down suggestions? Its because the majority of the threads are started as complaints revolving around Diablo 3 not being Diablo 2 with better graphics. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree to that kinda thing. I would rather see a duel option in Arena as Arena is how Blizzard plans on developing integrated PvP for Diablo 3. Open world games are PvM games and I've heard no good argument to the contrary. You may have to join a new game to PvP, but the majority of players did that anyways in Diablo 2 even...so where's the issue?
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
You didn't really give a reason they SHOULD bring back hostility/dueling really. Diablo 3 PvP isn't actually ranked in that you cannot see your rank at all. In addition, the Arena system is a much easier way to get decent PvP when you want it as it has a matchmaking system that takes gear into account. Why would the average player prefer hostility/duels in private games over an integrated system that levels the playing field?
The beta is just that, the beta. It doesn't have the population to sustain consistent questing over all levels and as such you end up with wait times occasionally. This can drive people towards private games as they don't want to wait. Especially when there are only 13 levels that are playable. However, once the game goes live that will no longer be an issue as the population goes from a few hundred thousand playing at once to millions. So don't think that beta is any indication of public / private usage.
You seem fixated on my comment about resources, be failed to recognize WHY I said it wouldn't be worth the resources. I specifically said that the reason it wouldn't be worth doing is because it'd be a NEGATIVE impact on the community. As others have stated here it is still likely it would be used for griefing despite it being private games. It would also give rise to more complaints about such features not being in public games.
Tell me this, what benefit does dueling/hostility offer that an Arena mode for dueling/FFA wouldn't offer?