Ugh, I'm so exhausted addressing this argument. There is a middle ground between E-sports and no competition whatsoever. Using the argument that "people MIGHT think this" to completely void out all competition in a game that people could enjoy is slightly insulting to those who would choose to participate. This narrow minded view is doing a huge disservice to imagining what could make this game great.
It is understandable that you are exhausted addressing this argument, because it isn't mine nor from the others you have addressed to. They are from Blizzard, it's official. I'm not saying that I agree with them, IMO a PVP ladder would be fine, I wouldn't try it, but many people would. That's fine by me.
Furthermore, competition doesn't HAVE to be relegated to PvP. Hoard mode, content racing, and I'm sure more could be implemented which PvMrs could squeeze a tremendous amount of enjoyment and replay value out of.
Now you are changing the original subject (or what I thought was the original subject), you are NOT asking for more PVP, you are asking for a Custom Game feature, which may or may not be followed by a public map creator just like SC2 and WC3. I think Blizzard already discarded that idea for some reasons I can't remember, search for them if you like, but while I believe the expasions will bring news to the known systems just as improve PVP modes, I don't believe in anything far different from the game focus.
And calm down, my posts contain no arguments, just some quotes from Blizzard and some opinions (which are very well determined when they start and end). I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just trying to make you remember abou some announcements that showed that Blizzard have a different focus for D3.
- Hoard Mode - teams of characters compete to hold off hoards of monsters. Whoever is over-run first loses.
- Content Racing - teams of characters compete PvM content (PvErs should love this!)
- Winner takes all - Items or gold is put up for grabs to the winner. Would be amazing if the public had the ability to bid on the winner as well. This should be an OPTION for every format. You don't HAVE to participate.
- Capture the flag.
- Protect the NPC, or VIP.
- Unique prestige awards for winners of all of these different formats. I.e. Titles, paraphernalia, aesthetic rewards, ears, etc. (I'm sure infinitely awesome things could be thought up that don't award gear but keep people competing)
3. 1 on 1 dueling system with competitive ladder support.
Probably more that I can't think of in 5 minutes.
1- They clearly stated that the decision of not having a ladder is because that would make the game feel e-sport-like. They don't want to encourage that kind of thought, that is a design decision, not a thing that they won't do due time.
2- As I said, I expect to see improvements in PVP in the next expansions. While I don't think this "feels like Diablo", maybe the fanbase doesn't and there's room for that. But time will tell. Personally, IMO, this feels a lot like Magicka, SC2 and WC3 custom games, and such.
3- Same explanation of 1. They clearly stated that they DONT want people to think PVP is for competition, it is only for fun.
I'm asking for a respectable PvP system, somewhere in the middle of E-sports and mindless, uncompetitive, zerg PvP that we have now. I'm asking for OPTIONS. I'm asking for FUN and REPLAY value once you've slain every monster and you're bored as hell (because you will get there at some point). We know that it can be done. We've seen it. It doesn't have to be perfectly balanced.
What do you mean with "respectable PVP system"? We don't "have" anything right now, how can you be sure that the PVP will be "mindless, uncompetitive, zerg PVP"?
I really think that PVP will be quite good, they just said they wouldn't balance it to be an e-sport, but they will still make improvements to it. And I think the expansions will bring new features regarding PVP.
You are asking for a PVP team, that they already have, to do some tweaks, as they already are doing, to correct the blatant imbalances that depend on features that can be corrected without impact in the PVE, what they already will do.
Virtually everything you've stated here is false. Jay Wilson has stated that there is, in fact, a "PvP team" and that there is a system in place for relegating certain abilities to PvP and PvE, thus having no effect on each other. I suggest you do your research and watch this interview:
And you have failed to see my point that these abilities that have no effect on PVE WILL BE balanced, but balancing PVP is far more complex than that, and you are not asking for "some" balancing, you are asking for the "best of both worlds". Which clearly they would do if they could, but as they can't, they focus on PVE because that's the Diablo's franchise focus. There are many other titles that don't do that and obviously don't get a so good PVE.
There is no such thing as a PVP team as of now, if there is they are not big enough, and hire more developers would cost more and make the software process a lot more complex and lenghty. This dilbert strip illustrate the way you might be thinking software development works:
Also, PVP balance would clash with PVE balance in everything, making every balance more difficult and costy. They made a clear decision that they would aim for the best PVE action game they could make instead of making an OK PVP and PVE game with the resources they have.
And they never said they would turn their back on PVP, they will make some balances if it's a clear issue and don't hurt PVE, but they clearly said that's not the focus, so every balance decision when they have to choose between PVE and PVP, they will blindly choose PVE, so no one should expect a PVP balance worthy of an e-sports game.
It's quite simple. They WON'T do that because it would take A LOT of time to balance the game for PVP. It is NOT only about damage, effect durations and other easily modifiable features. It is about EVERYTHING since number of area skills per character, number of focused skills with and without effects per character, dependability on equipment, performance in a group, the way skills overlap, the way skills do not overlap, and so on.
The game is very difficult to be balanced in the Blizzard quality degree. The DO NOT want to make something highly crappy so people will rage about how unbalanced PVP is (watch for just a little time how SC2 players complain about balancing even with the game being very much balanced and worked on that for years and years).
So, they release a PVP arena to make people happy, but they WON'T take the time to focus on it because its complexity would be comparable to a WHOLE NEW GAME. Why is that so hard to understand?
Diablo has never been about PVP and it was only that good at PVE because they focus all their strengths on improving PVE. If they share that strengths with PVP, it may not be as good on neither.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It is understandable that you are exhausted addressing this argument, because it isn't mine nor from the others you have addressed to. They are from Blizzard, it's official. I'm not saying that I agree with them, IMO a PVP ladder would be fine, I wouldn't try it, but many people would. That's fine by me.
Now you are changing the original subject (or what I thought was the original subject), you are NOT asking for more PVP, you are asking for a Custom Game feature, which may or may not be followed by a public map creator just like SC2 and WC3. I think Blizzard already discarded that idea for some reasons I can't remember, search for them if you like, but while I believe the expasions will bring news to the known systems just as improve PVP modes, I don't believe in anything far different from the game focus.
And calm down, my posts contain no arguments, just some quotes from Blizzard and some opinions (which are very well determined when they start and end). I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just trying to make you remember abou some announcements that showed that Blizzard have a different focus for D3.
1- They clearly stated that the decision of not having a ladder is because that would make the game feel e-sport-like. They don't want to encourage that kind of thought, that is a design decision, not a thing that they won't do due time.
2- As I said, I expect to see improvements in PVP in the next expansions. While I don't think this "feels like Diablo", maybe the fanbase doesn't and there's room for that. But time will tell. Personally, IMO, this feels a lot like Magicka, SC2 and WC3 custom games, and such.
3- Same explanation of 1. They clearly stated that they DONT want people to think PVP is for competition, it is only for fun.
What do you mean with "respectable PVP system"? We don't "have" anything right now, how can you be sure that the PVP will be "mindless, uncompetitive, zerg PVP"?
I really think that PVP will be quite good, they just said they wouldn't balance it to be an e-sport, but they will still make improvements to it. And I think the expansions will bring new features regarding PVP.
You are asking for a PVP team, that they already have, to do some tweaks, as they already are doing, to correct the blatant imbalances that depend on features that can be corrected without impact in the PVE, what they already will do.
And you have failed to see my point that these abilities that have no effect on PVE WILL BE balanced, but balancing PVP is far more complex than that, and you are not asking for "some" balancing, you are asking for the "best of both worlds". Which clearly they would do if they could, but as they can't, they focus on PVE because that's the Diablo's franchise focus. There are many other titles that don't do that and obviously don't get a so good PVE.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/two-eyes/1311069510/
Also, PVP balance would clash with PVE balance in everything, making every balance more difficult and costy. They made a clear decision that they would aim for the best PVE action game they could make instead of making an OK PVP and PVE game with the resources they have.
And they never said they would turn their back on PVP, they will make some balances if it's a clear issue and don't hurt PVE, but they clearly said that's not the focus, so every balance decision when they have to choose between PVE and PVP, they will blindly choose PVE, so no one should expect a PVP balance worthy of an e-sports game.
The game is very difficult to be balanced in the Blizzard quality degree. The DO NOT want to make something highly crappy so people will rage about how unbalanced PVP is (watch for just a little time how SC2 players complain about balancing even with the game being very much balanced and worked on that for years and years).
So, they release a PVP arena to make people happy, but they WON'T take the time to focus on it because its complexity would be comparable to a WHOLE NEW GAME. Why is that so hard to understand?
Diablo has never been about PVP and it was only that good at PVE because they focus all their strengths on improving PVE. If they share that strengths with PVP, it may not be as good on neither.