I guess money/gold will also be a competitive aspect of the game... i.e. who is the richest D3 player, since at some point the two currencies will even out to a stable conversion rate, and both will be of value.
Though I doubt blizz will make available how much each player has profited or spent from playing
Implying there is something wrong with that?
Expand on what 'that' is referring to.
"money/gold will also be a competitive aspect of the game"
Is that bad?
Nope... I want competitive aspects. That was just a realization after discussing the lack of competitiveness.
I guess money/gold will also be a competitive aspect of the game... i.e. who is the richest D3 player, since at some point the two currencies will even out to a stable conversion rate, and both will be of value.
Though I doubt blizz will make available how much each player has profited or spent from playing
Thanks for the deeper insight on why its so hard to balance. It makes more sense now.
But yea... still sorta uneasy about Bashiok not refuting that a 6-year old could be competitive with anyone. I hope he was just ignoring the extremity of that question and not actually agreeing with it.
I realize Diablo III is a PvE foused game... But at some point the story is told, and the PvE turns into just a grind. And if all that is left when this occurs is a half-assed PvP then I think players will leave fairly quickly. There are only so many people who will grind for the sake of grinding.
Also, What are the odds blizz implements a way of knowing if someones items were dropped/a gift/crafted/purchased for gold/purchased for dollars when you inspect them? I wonder if they've considered this. I would like this. Any thoughts for/against? Though... I just realized, even if there was a little icon to say "Purchased with dollars" you still wouldn't know if they earned those dollars from in-game sales or transferred from their credit card...
There has already been a thread regarding labeling people who bought items with real money. It will never make it in game, it segregates the community. Even without the RMAH people would buy items with money, this just makes it more convenient, and if it allows Blizzard to properly support Diablo 3 and keep it lag, bug and hack free then fantastic.
Here is a quote from the other thread that wraps up the whole labeling people quite nicely:
"It's like this really:
1 guy is a dedicated gamer
1 guy is a busy workaholic
Both players enjoy Diablo 3 the same on the BASIC levels of the game, however ! The workaholic doesn't have time or dedication to finding all the items and spending endless hours on the stuff himself. He doesn't think that buying stuff is a cop-out, because he spends time playing the game looking for items, but not enough to get him the endgame stuff. He spends his time working, socializing and what not. This gives him money. He uses the money to spend on entertainment, he uses diablo 3 as casual entertainment, because he ackknowledges that he doesn't have the time required to farm every item in the game.
Now is he a bad guy? Does he care less about the game overall? No. But he uses the system to get the things he wants. If he wants to buy the entire game of items and think that's fun, then why is that wrong? How is that more wrong, than the dedicated game-aholic who spends all his freetime playing to get items and then perhaps sell them to get more items?
The dedicated gamer gets angry, because he feels that his way of playing and having fun,is perhaps the correct one, and he therefore looks down on the busy workaholic guy for buying items. He demands satisfaction.
Both gamers are having equal fun, with farming or buying stuff and then enjoying the game." - BrokenTomato
Thanks for the info from the other post. This makes sense, and I agree with most of it. Though, the person you described should have no reason to feel ashamed... and thus shouldn't care that it is revealed that they bought their items with real money....
I guess most of my reason for wanting a system of identification like this is if their was a quality PvP system implemented. That way if someone was say ranked #1, but they bought all their items... Then I could say, well... whatever, I don't feel so inferior... That guy just bought his #1 spot. Or, even better, have a whole other ladder for people using only dropped items etc....
I'm not the type to flame anyone, but I guess that could also happen, which obviously blizz would try and avoid.
I guess money/gold will also be a competitive aspect of the game... i.e. who is the richest D3 player, since at some point the two currencies will even out to a stable conversion rate, and both will be of value.
Though I doubt blizz will make available how much each player has profited or spent from playing
Thanks for the deeper insight on why its so hard to balance. It makes more sense now.
But yea... still sorta uneasy about Bashiok not refuting that a 6-year old could be competitive with anyone. I hope he was just ignoring the extremity of that question and not actually agreeing with it.
I realize Diablo III is a PvE foused game... But at some point the story is told, and the PvE turns into just a grind. And if all that is left when this occurs is a half-assed PvP then I think players will leave fairly quickly. There are only so many people who will grind for the sake of grinding.
Also, What are the odds blizz implements a way of knowing if someones items were dropped/a gift/crafted/purchased for gold/purchased for dollars when you inspect them? I wonder if they've considered this. I would like this. Any thoughts for/against? Though... I just realized, even if there was a little icon to say "Purchased with dollars" you still wouldn't know if they earned those dollars from in-game sales or transferred from their credit card...
Do we know why they are so intent on not making the game a viable e-sport? This is why I figured they might just be being lazy...
They could reach a new audience with this game AND make it an e-sport (Which also makes the game deeper/better). But that would definitely be more work, and they can probably grab the same number of players regardless with this "casual" game. So why do all that extra work right? If they figure they'll make the same money anyways.
So when they justify leaving out portions of the game because it is not part of their "vision", are they really just being lazy but obviously don't want to say that? (lazy=savvy from a business perspective I suppose :P)
Yes, we do. Jay has said many times that they want PvE to be the driving force and they don't want any PvP balancing to impact that.
They are not being lazy (which seems a really stupid assumption), and suddenly switching gears and making an e-sport balanced PvP experience would like require gutting a lot of skills/rune combinations which are just too imbalanced versus other players *and* coming up with a lot more PvP content, very likely pushing the game back substantially.
Also, saying they are "leaving out portions of the game" implies those parts were actually in the game or planning in some form which there is no indication of, despite some players wishing it so.
Then maybe you could explain how balancing the classes for PvP totally screws up the PvE balance. I'm just thinking about this in very simple terms, cuz I haven't read about this before... but to me if all classes are equally good at killing each other, then they should all be equally good at killing monsters no?. Why would one class be exceptionally weak or strong in PvE if they are equal to all other classes in PvP? Unless their skill customization is lacking certain types of attacks, or alternatively benefiting from a unique style attack that is pointless in PvP but OP in PvE.
Yea... 'by leaving out parts' I just meant potential parts of the game. AKA my ideal Diablo. I wasn't saying they ever promised us anything.
To me the competition is what makes things "fun". Its what drives me to want more loot.
Than quite simply you need to look elsewhere. There are many games out there that do "e-sport" much better than any Diablo game ever has, add that to the developer forwardly proclaiming that they have no interest in Diablo going down the road of an "e-sport," I would imagine you time would be better spent on a true competitive game
Do we know why they are so intent on not making the game a viable e-sport? This is why I figured they might just be being lazy...
They could reach a new audience with this game AND make it an e-sport (Which also makes the game deeper/better). But that would definitely be more work, and they can probably grab the same number of players regardless with this "casual" game. So why do all that extra work right? If they figure they'll make the same money anyways.
So when they justify leaving out portions of the game because it is not part of their "vision", are they really just being lazy but obviously don't want to say that? (lazy=savvy from a business perspective I suppose :P)
Firstly... No I'm not going to edit my post proletaria, because I don't desire to be be "graced" by your reply. Yes, I did just state some of my my opinions hoping to get a response from others with theirs. Apparently your opinion has nothing to do with diablo.
So thank you baso80!
I understand what you're saying about a whole new audience being catered to... But can't they make a game that caters to both the casual and hardcore gamer? I think so... I think they could do all the things that I stated, and still accomplish their goal of acquiring new players.
I don't think competitive necessarily implies complicated. The learning curve need not be steep for a game to have a wide spectrum of player skill levels. A new player could be having the same level of fun, and never realize that there are players multiple skill levels above them. A new player isn't going to care, or even notice, if the classes aren't balanced. They might not care how they rank in PvP either... But its not going to hurt their fun-factor at all if blizzard properly implements these things for those of us that do care.
I guess to sum it up.... I think they can make a game that on the ground level is fun to play with friends for anyone, but that is also very deep and polished in other aspects of the game that the casual gamer doesn't care about. So cater to the hardcore gamers wherever possible, and all the casual gamers can remain casual and oblivious to what other layers Diablo offers, or some day transition to be a hardcore gamer themselves.
I hope that made sense. And to anyone who is more concerned about critiquing my language/grammar/approach, don't worry about posting that type of reply. It's a waste of your time.
It seems blizz is justifying a lot of gameplay decisions based on their vision of Diablo 3 as being a "casual" "coop" game.
I've heard they aren't going to worry too much about balancing classes because they don't intend for it to be an e-sport.
And this was Bashiok's response to someone who said "My 6 year old brother will be competitive at this game"...
"It's a co-op game. What exactly are you expecting people to compete over? And I'm guessing you didn't play Diablo II."
I also heard that even though there will be a PvP component to the game... it also wont be very serious. There wont be any sort of standings or ways of evaluating/comparing yourself...
Are they just being lazy? Why not balance the classes? Why make it so casual? Why not make it more competitive?
I think their goal is to make a game that can be picked up and played at any time, by any one, and for the one-word description coming from any player's mouth to be "Fun!"... But for me a "coop"-Diablo that is nearly void of competition (that my 6 year old brother, or any fool with ample cash to blow on the auction house, can beat me at) sounds a whole lot less fun.
I want to know what all my hard work/fun/time spent has earned me. I want to know how I stack up against others. I want to know if the players I just lost to in PvP bought all of their items with real money (Which by the way is entirely possible now that blizz is doing all the transactions). I want a Diablo that is viable as an e-sport.
To me the competition is what makes things "fun". Its what drives me to want more loot.
I am going to play regardless of what form Diablo takes on... But for how long, and with what level of enjoyment remains to be seen. I just hope blizz is making all the best decisions by keeping all of our interests in mind, and not just blindly following some vision and the dollar bill.
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Nope... I want competitive aspects. That was just a realization after discussing the lack of competitiveness.
Thanks for the info from the other post. This makes sense, and I agree with most of it. Though, the person you described should have no reason to feel ashamed... and thus shouldn't care that it is revealed that they bought their items with real money....
I guess most of my reason for wanting a system of identification like this is if their was a quality PvP system implemented. That way if someone was say ranked #1, but they bought all their items... Then I could say, well... whatever, I don't feel so inferior... That guy just bought his #1 spot. Or, even better, have a whole other ladder for people using only dropped items etc....
I'm not the type to flame anyone, but I guess that could also happen, which obviously blizz would try and avoid.
Though I doubt blizz will make available how much each player has profited or spent from playing
But yea... still sorta uneasy about Bashiok not refuting that a 6-year old could be competitive with anyone. I hope he was just ignoring the extremity of that question and not actually agreeing with it.
I realize Diablo III is a PvE foused game... But at some point the story is told, and the PvE turns into just a grind. And if all that is left when this occurs is a half-assed PvP then I think players will leave fairly quickly. There are only so many people who will grind for the sake of grinding.
Also, What are the odds blizz implements a way of knowing if someones items were dropped/a gift/crafted/purchased for gold/purchased for dollars when you inspect them? I wonder if they've considered this. I would like this. Any thoughts for/against? Though... I just realized, even if there was a little icon to say "Purchased with dollars" you still wouldn't know if they earned those dollars from in-game sales or transferred from their credit card...
Then maybe you could explain how balancing the classes for PvP totally screws up the PvE balance. I'm just thinking about this in very simple terms, cuz I haven't read about this before... but to me if all classes are equally good at killing each other, then they should all be equally good at killing monsters no?. Why would one class be exceptionally weak or strong in PvE if they are equal to all other classes in PvP? Unless their skill customization is lacking certain types of attacks, or alternatively benefiting from a unique style attack that is pointless in PvP but OP in PvE.
Yea... 'by leaving out parts' I just meant potential parts of the game. AKA my ideal Diablo. I wasn't saying they ever promised us anything.
Do we know why they are so intent on not making the game a viable e-sport? This is why I figured they might just be being lazy...
They could reach a new audience with this game AND make it an e-sport (Which also makes the game deeper/better). But that would definitely be more work, and they can probably grab the same number of players regardless with this "casual" game. So why do all that extra work right? If they figure they'll make the same money anyways.
So when they justify leaving out portions of the game because it is not part of their "vision", are they really just being lazy but obviously don't want to say that? (lazy=savvy from a business perspective I suppose :P)
So thank you baso80!
I understand what you're saying about a whole new audience being catered to... But can't they make a game that caters to both the casual and hardcore gamer? I think so... I think they could do all the things that I stated, and still accomplish their goal of acquiring new players.
I don't think competitive necessarily implies complicated. The learning curve need not be steep for a game to have a wide spectrum of player skill levels. A new player could be having the same level of fun, and never realize that there are players multiple skill levels above them. A new player isn't going to care, or even notice, if the classes aren't balanced. They might not care how they rank in PvP either... But its not going to hurt their fun-factor at all if blizzard properly implements these things for those of us that do care.
I guess to sum it up.... I think they can make a game that on the ground level is fun to play with friends for anyone, but that is also very deep and polished in other aspects of the game that the casual gamer doesn't care about. So cater to the hardcore gamers wherever possible, and all the casual gamers can remain casual and oblivious to what other layers Diablo offers, or some day transition to be a hardcore gamer themselves.
I hope that made sense. And to anyone who is more concerned about critiquing my language/grammar/approach, don't worry about posting that type of reply. It's a waste of your time.
I've heard they aren't going to worry too much about balancing classes because they don't intend for it to be an e-sport.
And this was Bashiok's response to someone who said "My 6 year old brother will be competitive at this game"...
"It's a co-op game. What exactly are you expecting people to compete over? And I'm guessing you didn't play Diablo II."
I also heard that even though there will be a PvP component to the game... it also wont be very serious. There wont be any sort of standings or ways of evaluating/comparing yourself...
Are they just being lazy? Why not balance the classes? Why make it so casual? Why not make it more competitive?
I think their goal is to make a game that can be picked up and played at any time, by any one, and for the one-word description coming from any player's mouth to be "Fun!"... But for me a "coop"-Diablo that is nearly void of competition (that my 6 year old brother, or any fool with ample cash to blow on the auction house, can beat me at) sounds a whole lot less fun.
I want to know what all my hard work/fun/time spent has earned me. I want to know how I stack up against others. I want to know if the players I just lost to in PvP bought all of their items with real money (Which by the way is entirely possible now that blizz is doing all the transactions). I want a Diablo that is viable as an e-sport.
To me the competition is what makes things "fun". Its what drives me to want more loot.
I am going to play regardless of what form Diablo takes on... But for how long, and with what level of enjoyment remains to be seen. I just hope blizz is making all the best decisions by keeping all of our interests in mind, and not just blindly following some vision and the dollar bill.