Really, thats your response... I guess I'll just disregard your vote because you confessed yours will be bogus.
Well, this thread is bogus and the entire premise is idiotic. So yeah, there isn't much we can do here. It's like debating politics in China, ultimately there is no choice and we both loose just for being there.
Speaking as a developer... a lot of developers don't begin a project knowing exactly what to do. It's called brainstorming and teamwork. Blizzard would have assigned a few people to PvP telling them to spend all of their brain cycles on this topic. Make sure you find flaws and ways to improve the game. The would have also done this with the team that developed the auction house.
Brain-storming and team-work? Those are some high-end words you pulled out there. I'm not sure if those are pc-game dev. unique or what, but i'll have to get back to you on that. But, seriously, they did that part and you sound like a completely jaded tool.
I feel like a broken record repeating my point every time someone responds like this...
ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY IS.... There is a bigger community that doesn't want Blizzard to make the Diablo 3 PvP casual. There is a bigger community that wants Blizzard to keep the Diablo 3 PvP open. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT BLIZZARD MAKING ANOTHER ESPORT. Why FORCE casual PvP just so, and I quote, "people aren't confused about what type of game Diablo 3 is". Why are they denying this bigger community want they want while giving a smaller community a means to buy virtual items with real currency. Again, I'm not against the RM AH. I repeat I AM NOT AGAINST THE RM AH. All I am saying is there are better places to spend development resources. I.E. Why not finish the rune system an release the RM AH after launch.
You are a broken record because there really is nothing coming into your head. You really don't seem to get that pvp is in great shape (for what they intended, and certainly compared to D2) and the rmah is a useful tool for the game. If you'd like to know more: feel free to find a relavent thread I already posted in.
Wow that sounds like fun, manually keeping track of my stats. It could have been implemented so easily. It doesn't really matter though because of the P2W aspect. People buying the best gear/runes/gems are naturally going to be much more powerful than people who only have good gear.
And yet they didn't implement it and, what's more, it had nothing to do with the RMAH. Also, the game won't be balanced for pvp so whatever the flavor of the month team is will be on top. How much gear factors into that remains to be seen, but you can safely assume you'll be matched with players of relatively equal skill and gear anyway due to the matchmaker.
It really sounds like "fun" to me, but I realize "fun," is immaterial to the discussion at hand.
Please, Please, Please stop mentioning and using the word "E-sport" blindly without having a single clue what being an e-sport means. IF you chose to continue using it, specially when linked to D3, I will have to trace your IP, buy a sub machine gun and shoot you and your whole family.
Feel free to define it, for what that's worth. I'm using the loose definition Jay implied in the video.
How about being constructive and doing a good poll instead then?
To server what purpose? Unless that poll caused this one's death, it wouldn't be constructive (at least not in a way that's relavent to the post you quoted). Two useless polls do not a goodpost make.
Completely invalid poll here... such a silly poll. In fact it's SUCH a silly poll that I'm tempted to vote for the RMAH just to tilt it AWAY From pvp since it's pretty obvious you only care about pvp and the point of this is to somehow prove that pvp is more desired than an RMAH through the most reliable of sources: the internet poll.
Yeah, it's actually sad this got moved instead of locked and killed in its loathsome infancy.
Although, I have to admit that, at this point my morbid curiosity is getting the better of me and i'm looking forward to more badposts. Maybe we'll even have some call-out posting where I get name-n-shame'd for voting opposite of pvp!
I'm not trying to troll. It's a waste of everyones time.
Based on the Jay interview, so is discussing serious pvp and e-sporting D3.
Well it is a good thing Jay only makes the game and doesn't run the community, we do. Diablo PvP gets as serious as the community wants it to be. Does EVO happen because Capcom or Namco set it up, or does it happen because the community made it what it was? Don't get so blind by what a developer says, they are not the end all be all opinion. There was very much a live Diablo 2 PvP scene and there still is, it will flourish just as much if not more in Diablo 3, with or without Blizzards consent.
I'm quite familiar with player-generated content. EVE online is 99% player content, 1% horribly broken mmo crap with devs who wouldn't get work on the Blizzard North janitorial staff.
What i'm saying has nothing to do with player generated content at all. More power to the guy who wants to make an unofficial ladder, capture the cow, or whatever the hell they come up with. That's amazing.
What i'm repeating here is that the devs are clear on the release content and what they want out of pvp at that time. Why continue to sabre rattle about official content when, as you said yourself, players can and have already filled the void?
He meant, EVO, the big tournament event where players go to compete in fighting games like Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, not EVE online, the mmo, but I can see how you confused the two. So he's basically saying, players are the ones who made stuff like Street Fighter and Soul Calibur a big competive scene regardless of Capcom or Namco's intent. Really, no developer has built a pvp game with the full intention that it would be a big esport competitive scene, except Starcraft 2.
I know what he meant. I used another game as an example to make a more effective argument with a pre-existing system.
I'm basically agreeing with what he's saying and then explaining my earlier position, which seems to have made him a little upset.
Public poll is an easy way to get people to not vote on a topic like this.
Are you saying that the very same people who are favorable of the RMAH are too embarrassed to admit to have bought in game gear before? Hmmm, makes me wonder..
I am so embarassed I didn't vo... oh wait. Yes, there's my name.
So, what would you like to discuss? And "do you float?" will not be an acceptable prompt.
There's no ladder. People like to know exactly where they stand. I WANT to know my losses. You can keep the monetary rewards to yourself, I'd rather not have to think of money while playing Diablo.
Players can generate their own ladder system on sites just like this one. If that is your SOLE gripe in all this, I think you've gone on a lot of tangents.
Yes. Why can't it be an E-sport? If it even amounted to that. They said they weren't going to be balancing the game for PvP so people knew it wasn't going to be a hardcore PvP game. But with no track of your losses, and no ladder, it's almost pointless to PvP now. You get a kick out of it, you win, yay, you lose, doesn't matter. Can you even choose your team and opponents so you can play with your friends?
I think they were even planning on making a ladder but that all changed when they thought up this RMAH bullshit.
Firstly, quit hogging all the tin-foil. I need to make hats for my bomb-shelter.
Second, players can track their own stats and did so in D2. Your wins and losses actually DO matter, because of the match-making system (it was mentioned in the same video, not sure how you missed it). You also get achievments and banner titles for pvp, so that hardly makes it pointless.
I guess the question is: why do you pvp and what isn't blizzard doing for you?
-Fight equally skilled and geared opponents: Check.
-Recieve a reward that sets you apart from the rest of the population: Check.
-Ability to be ranked by your community if you so desire: Check.
-Ability to play with your friends (that suck at pvp) too without killing your ~awsome mmr~: Check.
I can't think of anything you could be after here except monetary rewards for your elite skill at pvp, which is absolutely silly considering you admit it's ok for Blizzard to eschew balance in favor of a largely pve driven game.
I believe quantum mechanics states that devs could be both economic devs and pvp devs at the same time, therefor his assertion is correct... at the sub-atomic level.
I'm not trying to troll. It's a waste of everyones time.
Based on the Jay interview, so is discussing serious pvp and e-sporting D3.
Well it is a good thing Jay only makes the game and doesn't run the community, we do. Diablo PvP gets as serious as the community wants it to be. Does EVO happen because Capcom or Namco set it up, or does it happen because the community made it what it was? Don't get so blind by what a developer says, they are not the end all be all opinion. There was very much a live Diablo 2 PvP scene and there still is, it will flourish just as much if not more in Diablo 3, with or without Blizzards consent.
I'm quite familiar with player-generated content. EVE online is 99% player content, 1% horribly broken mmo crap with devs who wouldn't get work on the Blizzard North janitorial staff.
What i'm saying has nothing to do with player generated content at all. More power to the guy who wants to make an unofficial ladder, capture the cow, or whatever the hell they come up with. That's amazing.
What i'm repeating here is that the devs are clear on the release content and what they want out of pvp at that time. Why continue to sabre rattle about official content when, as you said yourself, players can and have already filled the void?
They are related because the main reason competitive PvP is gone is because they don't want people to say it's P2W. If the RMAH never came to be we would probably still have a ladder.
So the whole "this is not an e-sport," thing was just a lie to hide this hideous truth from us?
I think that's far-fetched, to say the least. At worst, it's blatantly misleading. Either way, we're both aware of the reality and watched the same interview. So why are we still arguing about pvp?
My only point in how the RMAH and PvP is related is that they are developed from the same resource. The Diablo 3 development team. My point in the linked post is saying that Blizzard is spending their development resources on a smaller niche (people who pay real money for items). Some counter arguments were that the PvP community is smaller than people who pay real money for virtual goods.
Well, sand and computer chips also share a resource (silicate), but I don't really winge at all the extra sand because I need a new computer (point-being: these are unrelated things). Blizzard didn't stop iterating on pvp because they decided RMAH needed more guys. It was because they didn't intend for D3 to take on e-sport status and the title itself was being marketed to the arpg, kill monsters, find items, play with friends crowd. The pvp was assumed to be an off-shoot, casual fun, even blessed with a helping of titles and achievments. It got more than a fair treatment for a minigame of it's porportion and I think people should be happy the niche was supported that much. Compared to D2 pvp is still getting an upgrade.
This poll is only to judge which group was larger.
Mt post was to inform you that your poll doesn't make sense. It's like asking who is tall and who plays necromancer in D2. You might even find a (misleading, obviously not actual) correlation there, but presenting that data as indicative of some kind of tall-man-necro-conneciton would be laughable.
I've bought currency (and sold it later for a net profit) in several games. It's never made me rich, but it has enhanced my gaming experience more so that WoW pvp ever did.
Titles that legitimize this process create a market nuiance for the game that's both fun and actually promotes the healthy growth of the game economy (without illicit outside companies holding all the chips).
Broad sweeps of pvp development aren't in the cards, nor are they related to the RMAH, but you probably knew that already (at least I really hope so) and posted this to stir the pot. Consider the troll-bait taken.
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Well, this thread is bogus and the entire premise is idiotic. So yeah, there isn't much we can do here. It's like debating politics in China, ultimately there is no choice and we both loose just for being there.
Brain-storming and team-work? Those are some high-end words you pulled out there. I'm not sure if those are pc-game dev. unique or what, but i'll have to get back to you on that. But, seriously, they did that part and you sound like a completely jaded tool.
My janitor also doubles as my accountant, true story. See, I made rediculous things up to make an invalid point too! Oh it is fun.
You are a broken record because there really is nothing coming into your head. You really don't seem to get that pvp is in great shape (for what they intended, and certainly compared to D2) and the rmah is a useful tool for the game. If you'd like to know more: feel free to find a relavent thread I already posted in.
And yet they didn't implement it and, what's more, it had nothing to do with the RMAH. Also, the game won't be balanced for pvp so whatever the flavor of the month team is will be on top. How much gear factors into that remains to be seen, but you can safely assume you'll be matched with players of relatively equal skill and gear anyway due to the matchmaker.
It really sounds like "fun" to me, but I realize "fun," is immaterial to the discussion at hand.
Feel free to define it, for what that's worth. I'm using the loose definition Jay implied in the video.
Also, you should calm down aspie.
To server what purpose? Unless that poll caused this one's death, it wouldn't be constructive (at least not in a way that's relavent to the post you quoted). Two useless polls do not a goodpost make.
Yeah, it's actually sad this got moved instead of locked and killed in its loathsome infancy.
Although, I have to admit that, at this point my morbid curiosity is getting the better of me and i'm looking forward to more badposts. Maybe we'll even have some call-out posting where I get name-n-shame'd for voting opposite of pvp!
/stoked
I know what he meant. I used another game as an example to make a more effective argument with a pre-existing system.
I'm basically agreeing with what he's saying and then explaining my earlier position, which seems to have made him a little upset.
I am so embarassed I didn't vo... oh wait. Yes, there's my name.
So, what would you like to discuss? And "do you float?" will not be an acceptable prompt.
Players can generate their own ladder system on sites just like this one. If that is your SOLE gripe in all this, I think you've gone on a lot of tangents.
Firstly, quit hogging all the tin-foil. I need to make hats for my bomb-shelter.
Second, players can track their own stats and did so in D2. Your wins and losses actually DO matter, because of the match-making system (it was mentioned in the same video, not sure how you missed it). You also get achievments and banner titles for pvp, so that hardly makes it pointless.
I guess the question is: why do you pvp and what isn't blizzard doing for you?
-Fight equally skilled and geared opponents: Check.
-Recieve a reward that sets you apart from the rest of the population: Check.
-Ability to be ranked by your community if you so desire: Check.
-Ability to play with your friends (that suck at pvp) too without killing your ~awsome mmr~: Check.
I can't think of anything you could be after here except monetary rewards for your elite skill at pvp, which is absolutely silly considering you admit it's ok for Blizzard to eschew balance in favor of a largely pve driven game.
Everywhere else it's just a really bad straw-man.
I'm quite familiar with player-generated content. EVE online is 99% player content, 1% horribly broken mmo crap with devs who wouldn't get work on the Blizzard North janitorial staff.
What i'm saying has nothing to do with player generated content at all. More power to the guy who wants to make an unofficial ladder, capture the cow, or whatever the hell they come up with. That's amazing.
What i'm repeating here is that the devs are clear on the release content and what they want out of pvp at that time. Why continue to sabre rattle about official content when, as you said yourself, players can and have already filled the void?
So the whole "this is not an e-sport," thing was just a lie to hide this hideous truth from us?
I think that's far-fetched, to say the least. At worst, it's blatantly misleading. Either way, we're both aware of the reality and watched the same interview. So why are we still arguing about pvp?
But, good sir moderator, how would they properly hunt the witches without knowin their names?
Based on the Jay interview, so is discussing serious pvp and e-sporting D3.
Well, sand and computer chips also share a resource (silicate), but I don't really winge at all the extra sand because I need a new computer (point-being: these are unrelated things). Blizzard didn't stop iterating on pvp because they decided RMAH needed more guys. It was because they didn't intend for D3 to take on e-sport status and the title itself was being marketed to the arpg, kill monsters, find items, play with friends crowd. The pvp was assumed to be an off-shoot, casual fun, even blessed with a helping of titles and achievments. It got more than a fair treatment for a minigame of it's porportion and I think people should be happy the niche was supported that much. Compared to D2 pvp is still getting an upgrade.
Mt post was to inform you that your poll doesn't make sense. It's like asking who is tall and who plays necromancer in D2. You might even find a (misleading, obviously not actual) correlation there, but presenting that data as indicative of some kind of tall-man-necro-conneciton would be laughable.
Titles that legitimize this process create a market nuiance for the game that's both fun and actually promotes the healthy growth of the game economy (without illicit outside companies holding all the chips).
Broad sweeps of pvp development aren't in the cards, nor are they related to the RMAH, but you probably knew that already (at least I really hope so) and posted this to stir the pot. Consider the troll-bait taken.