It is the first time I have seen protests this big here in 20+ years (I'm 26).
It kinda weird for me, seeing what could be the start of a "revolution" (or a civil war, who knows) so close and with my own eyes; seeing the people rage about the abusive taxes, bad public services (health, education, etc.) and corruption in the government.
But I can't shake this bad feeling that I have: that the protests and the will to change will settle down in a couple weeks and people will be like "ok, we've tried, now back to how it was before".
I'm not a pessimist or anything, it's just annoying to see the same people who elect the dumbest and most corrupt politicians now desperate for an overnight change.
This whole philosophy of "screw the economy and growth, we don't need that" and generally fucking the middle class with insane taxes for the sake of having social programs (that help people with no jobs) was gonna take its toll eventually, and people knew that was the current's government philosophy when they voted for those candidates (Lula, the previous president, and Dilma, the current one). So why are they overreacting about that now? It's not like we didn't know this was gonna happen (shitty economic growth, crappy public services) - we've had this coming for a looong time now.
Why did they elect a clown (yeah, an actual circus-like clown with ZERO knowledge of making laws and an illiterate, in the literal sense of the word)?
Why did they (re)elect a dozen+ KNOWN corrupt politicians (or as we call them, politicians with a "dirty sheet")?
Why not do something when they have the power to do something: in the elections (which are DIRECT in Brazil - we vote for every big public seat)? Look for information on their candidates and choose smartly instead of just watching soccer matches and soap operas? <_<
This whole movement does not have any direct purpose (only generic ones like "no more corruption"). It doesn't aim to reduce specific taxes. It doesn't aim to reduce congressmen's benefits. It doesn't aim to take those "dirty sheet" politicians out of the Congress and put them in jails where they belong.
Only now they're talking about concrete propositions. But even the ones people are coming up with are kinda abstract goals imho.
So I find it very hard that they'll actually accomplish anything (despite some cities already reducing their bus fares by 10 cents - awesome, uh?)
My 2 cents on the matter, in case someone wants a more critic view of the things happening here.
It kinda weird for me, seeing what could be the start of a "revolution" (or a civil war, who knows) so close and with my own eyes; seeing the people rage about the abusive taxes, bad public services (health, education, etc.) and corruption in the government.
But I can't shake this bad feeling that I have: that the protests and the will to change will settle down in a couple weeks and people will be like "ok, we've tried, now back to how it was before".
I think what Brazil needs is a charismatic leader of the 'revolution' in some ways. Che Guevara (who I was named after (my name is Che)) was that type of figure.
I am not saying Brazil needs to become communist as communism never worked the way the Karl Marx theorised.
The state of Brazil now does seem a lot similar to how Cuba was.. corrupt politicians, large gap in equality between the ‘proletariat’ and ‘bourgeoisie’ etc
Leaders like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro who wanted to change Cuba for the better, to create equality and who worked for the people because they believed in a better way, that is what Brazil needs now.
Brazil won’t change to that without a full scale conflict/ revolution by force. The bourgeoisie would never want to relinquish their wealth, that is why only by force can you change government drastically.
Social media and international pressure can only do so much. The real fight has to come from within Brazil not outside of it..
Anyway, they're making good use of the Confederations Cup to get attention. I support every kind of non-violent protests.
Yup, same here.
But if 5% of the people have an intrinsic tendency to be violent (it's human nature), that means that 5% of the protestants will vandalize public and private property (as they are doing, even with other protestants asking them not to), and 5% of the police force will overreact and make use of unnecessary violence.
Both sides are generalizing way too hard right now (saying all the protestants are vandals and most police officers are using police violence).
We've had a senior man lose the car he uses to work this week because the protestants put fire on it. He had no insurance, as his was a very old car. He has no way to work right now. Causing harm to the honest citizens to make a point to the politicians is outright wrong and makes me a very sad panda.
... I think what Brazil needs is a charismatic leader of the 'revolution' in some ways. Che Guevara (who I was named after (my name is Che)) was that type of figure. ...
By all means, no, please. Lula (our last president) was a charismatic leader, and left the government with a rotting-but-yet-not-visible economy, and was able to elect our current president (Dilma).
But I get your point: We should have a nice leader, capable of uniting people to a common and fair cause. Just like Eddard Stark. Who ended beheaded.
We've had a senior man lose the car he uses to work this week because the protestants put fire on it. He had no insurance, as his was a very old car. He has no way to work right now. Causing harm to the honest citizens to make a point to the politicians is outright wrong and makes me a very sad panda.
I think the guy got a new car. The other 95% protestants put a "vaquinha" (public donation) in order to buy the guy a new car, but it was not necessary.
Hey if they're gonna protest why not abolish the monetary economy at all, we have the resources and science to live in an utopia already. A protest this big could spur a change towards that direction as well. Watch Zeitgeist: Moving forward or read this page: http://www.thezeitge...rientation#faq2
They think we can live in a utopia without money and selfishness ...
Human Beings are self intersted, there is no such thing as alturism. It is game theory 101...
Zeitgeist movement fails for the same reason a Karl Marx's communist utopia fails. They all leave out that it is part of us to be self intersted and to belive otherwise... well John Nash might call that "the losers payout" ...
TZM is atheist - I am a fully-fledged atheist.. but TZM has no clue about the role religion plays not only for some individuals but its functional necessity within societies and cultures. Having different belief structures, emotions and different opinions on issues is what makes us human.
They have a so called “Scientific World View” - We are not perfectly rational beings and TZM seem to have a black and white view on all arguments.
Even atheists do not agree on anything. TZM cannot have a ‘scientific world view’ that is unbiased because the entire manifesto has bias.
To prove my point – TZM put so much emphasis on morality. However if you take a ‘scientific world view’ then Morality is an imagined idea (just like nationalism). There is no objective moral right and wrong in the universe. Morality is a construct based on game theory which in a way says ‘I agree not to kill you if you agree not to kill me’ ( ‘state of nature’ type philosophy).
So already TZMs ‘unbiased’ perfectly rational world view is compromised by the fact that it uses a sense of universal ‘morality’ to be the foundation of its movement and how it ‘solves’ social problems.
…TZM have as much contradictions in its manifesto as the bible does..
You think people will not be driven to create when they are not forced to by the monetary system?
There have been studies done and there's proof that creativity is hampered by a bigger monetary reward, when you let people work for their money. When you provide an environment in which people can work for free, what happens is that people are more creative, more productive. These are studies done in real life. And I always advise someone to let the other show the study when being presented by this argument, so if you don't know the study yet let me know and i'll find it in the next week.
You say people are not altruistic, well, I would love taking care of the elderly, or helping people design their pc and build it for them.
Does doing such deeds fill you with happiness? that you have done something 'good'? Any want or desire that you have and fulfill is an act of self insterest. You may call that a 'good' form of self interest... but then a scientific world view' would not think in terms of good or bad..
Would anyone not want the rest of humanity to live in good conditions as well, when they know it's possible?
The thing is we do not know that it is possible and far from it! Does 'good conditions' mean that if I am in current 'bad conditions' my quality of life will improve, but if I am in 'great conditions' (like i feel that i am in now) would my quality of life go down in order for the world to become more.. equal?
If i have to spell it out, you think those guns won't be pointed at you eventually? Because in this system, the people at the wheel are often not altruistic. They will not hesitate to benefit from taking everything from you. It's up to you if you let them. If you think it's an unreal image, go to some african countries and see what happens to the population when they oppose the current powers. As soon as the regime in power will have to take from the people what it wants to stay in power, it will. And they don't stop there. They don't stop when you die from hunger. That's the reality.
I take this effort to try and win 1 supporter for the cause because the situation stagnates at some point and at that point it will be too late for the people, all I do is give you the chance to prevent it, and change it for the better by pointing it out. There's no need to throw out the current country structure, etc, this can all be done by the government. But the sad thing is, it can all be done TODAY. The only reason we're not doing it, is because we are driven by profit for survival as a human race, and we were brought up with individual gain in our minds.
I think that only after a world catastrophy can a world wide revolution occur. When there becomes a NEED to greatest exent to unify the world under one government/leadership. Only when the rich/well off lose everything they have, will change such as this occur. See you at Year Zero..
You can't brush off what I'm saying by saying socialism doesn't work. If you have a technological society you can't even call it socialism anymore, because you remain individuals as you are now. All that's taken out of the equation is the monetary system and the NEED to work for your survival, your food.
"the monetary system" is our ladder, our game of thrones. People (like me) do not want to reduce our current quality of life..
But if you are resolved to having a revolution, have a true one and abolish the current system. This could work perfectly in Brazil: where people in slums would love to join your cause.
I agree
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Curse Premiumhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBYEXLGdSg
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Wise ElderIt is now.
Hopefully things get better in Brazil!
Ha. Bagstone.
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Wise ElderIt kinda weird for me, seeing what could be the start of a "revolution" (or a civil war, who knows) so close and with my own eyes; seeing the people rage about the abusive taxes, bad public services (health, education, etc.) and corruption in the government.
But I can't shake this bad feeling that I have: that the protests and the will to change will settle down in a couple weeks and people will be like "ok, we've tried, now back to how it was before".
I'm not a pessimist or anything, it's just annoying to see the same people who elect the dumbest and most corrupt politicians now desperate for an overnight change.
This whole philosophy of "screw the economy and growth, we don't need that" and generally fucking the middle class with insane taxes for the sake of having social programs (that help people with no jobs) was gonna take its toll eventually, and people knew that was the current's government philosophy when they voted for those candidates (Lula, the previous president, and Dilma, the current one). So why are they overreacting about that now? It's not like we didn't know this was gonna happen (shitty economic growth, crappy public services) - we've had this coming for a looong time now.
Why did they elect a clown (yeah, an actual circus-like clown with ZERO knowledge of making laws and an illiterate, in the literal sense of the word)?
Why did they (re)elect a dozen+ KNOWN corrupt politicians (or as we call them, politicians with a "dirty sheet")?
Why not do something when they have the power to do something: in the elections (which are DIRECT in Brazil - we vote for every big public seat)? Look for information on their candidates and choose smartly instead of just watching soccer matches and soap operas? <_<
This whole movement does not have any direct purpose (only generic ones like "no more corruption"). It doesn't aim to reduce specific taxes. It doesn't aim to reduce congressmen's benefits. It doesn't aim to take those "dirty sheet" politicians out of the Congress and put them in jails where they belong.
Only now they're talking about concrete propositions. But even the ones people are coming up with are kinda abstract goals imho.
So I find it very hard that they'll actually accomplish anything (despite some cities already reducing their bus fares by 10 cents - awesome, uh?)
My 2 cents on the matter, in case someone wants a more critic view of the things happening here.
I am not saying Brazil needs to become communist as communism never worked the way the Karl Marx theorised.
The state of Brazil now does seem a lot similar to how Cuba was.. corrupt politicians, large gap in equality between the ‘proletariat’ and ‘bourgeoisie’ etc
Leaders like Che Guevara and Fidel Castro who wanted to change Cuba for the better, to create equality and who worked for the people because they believed in a better way, that is what Brazil needs now.
Brazil won’t change to that without a full scale conflict/ revolution by force. The bourgeoisie would never want to relinquish their wealth, that is why only by force can you change government drastically.
Social media and international pressure can only do so much. The real fight has to come from within Brazil not outside of it..
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Wise ElderBut if 5% of the people have an intrinsic tendency to be violent (it's human nature), that means that 5% of the protestants will vandalize public and private property (as they are doing, even with other protestants asking them not to), and 5% of the police force will overreact and make use of unnecessary violence.
Both sides are generalizing way too hard right now (saying all the protestants are vandals and most police officers are using police violence).
We've had a senior man lose the car he uses to work this week because the protestants put fire on it. He had no insurance, as his was a very old car. He has no way to work right now. Causing harm to the honest citizens to make a point to the politicians is outright wrong
By all means, no, please. Lula (our last president) was a charismatic leader, and left the government with a rotting-but-yet-not-visible economy, and was able to elect our current president (Dilma).
But I get your point: We should have a nice leader, capable of uniting people to a common and fair cause. Just like Eddard Stark. Who ended beheaded.
I think the guy got a new car. The other 95% protestants put a "vaquinha" (public donation) in order to buy the guy a new car, but it was not necessary.
Check here.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
Wizard | Demon Hunter
They think we can live in a utopia without money and selfishness ...
Human Beings are self intersted, there is no such thing as alturism. It is game theory 101...
Zeitgeist movement fails for the same reason a Karl Marx's communist utopia fails. They all leave out that it is part of us to be self intersted and to belive otherwise... well John Nash might call that "the losers payout" ...
Nationalism is imagined – I agree
TZM is atheist - I am a fully-fledged atheist.. but TZM has no clue about the role religion plays not only for some individuals but its functional necessity within societies and cultures. Having different belief structures, emotions and different opinions on issues is what makes us human.
They have a so called “Scientific World View” - We are not perfectly rational beings and TZM seem to have a black and white view on all arguments.
Even atheists do not agree on anything. TZM cannot have a ‘scientific world view’ that is unbiased because the entire manifesto has bias.
To prove my point – TZM put so much emphasis on morality. However if you take a ‘scientific world view’ then Morality is an imagined idea (just like nationalism). There is no objective moral right and wrong in the universe. Morality is a construct based on game theory which in a way says ‘I agree not to kill you if you agree not to kill me’ ( ‘state of nature’ type philosophy).
So already TZMs ‘unbiased’ perfectly rational world view is compromised by the fact that it uses a sense of universal ‘morality’ to be the foundation of its movement and how it ‘solves’ social problems.
…TZM have as much contradictions in its manifesto as the bible does..
Yes please.
Does doing such deeds fill you with happiness? that you have done something 'good'? Any want or desire that you have and fulfill is an act of self insterest. You may call that a 'good' form of self interest... but then a scientific world view' would not think in terms of good or bad..
The 'losers payout' is a term based off of the 'prisoners dilema'.
The thing is we do not know that it is possible and far from it! Does 'good conditions' mean that if I am in current 'bad conditions' my quality of life will improve, but if I am in 'great conditions' (like i feel that i am in now) would my quality of life go down in order for the world to become more.. equal?
I agree.
I think that only after a world catastrophy can a world wide revolution occur. When there becomes a NEED to greatest exent to unify the world under one government/leadership. Only when the rich/well off lose everything they have, will change such as this occur. See you at Year Zero..
"the monetary system" is our ladder, our game of thrones. People (like me) do not want to reduce our current quality of life..
I agree