All these threads about adding new stuff to the game to customise gear... Be it runes or more gems or the mystic or loot 2.0. All these threads want more and more stats.
Why ? It is hard enugh to get a trifecta. if you add more stats, the trifectsas will become quadfectas or 5-fectas ! They will be even harder to get ! And your trifectas that are worth soemthing now will fall down to the price that 2-fectas have now.
As it is now, if you get a good ias, cc and chd damage roll, you have a good item. If you add more options to customise, you just add more rolls to it that ALSO have to be good, therefore making the best items even rarer.
How does that solve the problem that not enugh people have enugh good items ? It does not, exactly. it will just cost more gold and take more tries to get good items. We will just have to grind even more and have even more dissapointing item rolls.
I completely agree that customization and "new affixes" aren't the solution. They will be introduced and serve a different purpose (item and gold sink), but they don't solve itemization.
However, the Loot 2.0 thread was the first of these highly-praised suggestion threads in a long time that did not only focus on customization and new affixes. The ideas such as achievements to encourage finding legendaries yourself or the drastic change of NV+MF were great and made the thread for me (and not the Mystic and Photoshop parts, I don't need those).
@The others attacking Twoflower: he has a good point and when you tell him to "go back and read the thread again" I might as well say "go back and read up about the Mystic in beta and previous suggestion threads", because many highly-voted suggestion threads had actually close to zero new and applicable ideas. But I agree that it's odd to bring this up after the (in my opinion) best suggestion thread so far.
I don't see any attacks, it seems to me like some people just like to add these 'all the ideas suck! this won't help the game!' threads. When simply they are not needed.
Sorry for the "attack" bit, was a bit uncalled for. But could you please point me to other threads like this? I don't remember any (serious, non-trolling, and well-phrased) threads that raise concerns about all the suggestion threads.
As I stated in the Loot 2.0 thread, I liked most of the ideas. This was not the case with all of the previous threads, sometimes it's just a rip-off of beta ideas or - just like Twoflower said - new items and affixes. By blowing up the system from 13 items and ~30ish affixes to ~20 items (Talisman etc.) and ~50 affixes, we don't solve anything. If any of the new affixes adds DPS, it becomes mandatory and will just become a new part in the ranking of affixes required on an item to be considered good.
I think it is good that Twoflower highlighted this point, as the Loot 2.0 thread will see many copycats in the following days and weeks. In the Loot 2.0 thread we discussed about MrMonstrosity's ideas - also, if you read his interview on the front page you will realize that he actually likes to see a discussion (and isn't just looking for "you're awesome bro" posts). But it isn't fair to use his thread for that, so why not discuss here what future suggestion threads should NOT incorporate?
if u think about how much dedication was put into those beautiful items and sets and the fact that, because 99% of the items are trash, we dont appreciate it enough.
And now i read the Op post. Your thinking progress is disconected and doesnt make sense. Dont worry about that, ure wasting your energies. Game designers know better. Piece
More customization is a solution to the lack of customization...
Other solutions is of course also needed for all the other problems.
The various solutions aren't mutually exclusive.
All these threads about adding new stuff to the game to customise gear... Be it runes or more gems or the mystic or loot 2.0. All these threads want more and more stats.
Why ?
Because as far as ARPGs go D3 has the least amount of customization in any ARPG I've ever seen. Especially when compared to D2.
How could you not know this?
And for the love of god, people need to stop begging for BOA... I see you people, lol.. Stop.
I don't see any attacks, it seems to me like some people just like to add these 'all the ideas suck! this won't help the game!' threads. When simply they are not needed.
Im not even going to explain to you, go back to the post and read it through. You dont have to agree with it, but atleast read it all instead of reading bits and bits and taking assumptions like this
This comes off a little unproductively, which I think is what they are referring to as an "attack." I have to agree; that was my first thought too.
Anyway, I think the point of loot 2.0 is to diversify unique abilities, not just add abilities. I'm assuming you aren't very far along in your character because where I'm sitting, Trifecta equipment is already worthless to me. Items with CC/CD/IAS also need base stat+ vit or AR. It's not uncommon to see some of my piers with all six. From my interpretation of loot 2.0 the choice will be something akin to the SoJ choice (ring that doesn't have trifecta stats, but does massive dmg to elites). If a LOT of the equipment had more choices like that where this isn't an easy to calculate clear cut answer, then I think things will be better off.
You talk a lot, but I don't see any ideas coming out from you?
I dont have to deliver ideas, that is up to the game developers But I know that most of the stuff I read here would not improve the game IMO. Am I allowed to mention that, yes ? If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to read or comment. Go fling a donkey or something.
As I stated in the Loot 2.0 thread, I liked most of the ideas. This was not the case with all of the previous threads, sometimes it's just a rip-off of beta ideas or - just like Twoflower said - new items and affixes. By blowing up the system from 13 items and ~30ish affixes to ~20 items (Talisman etc.) and ~50 affixes, we don't solve anything. If any of the new affixes adds DPS, it becomes mandatory and will just become a new part in the ranking of affixes required on an item to be considered good.
I gotta admit that I have not read the loot 2.0 thread entirely yet. Will check it out for sure, it's the buzz at the moment
Because as far as ARPGs go D3 has the least amount of customization in any ARPG I've ever seen. Especially when compared to D2.
How could you not know this?
Who says I dont know this ? The point is that I like it. Diablo is a ARPG, not some super complex super epic real RPG like baldurs gate etc. Slick mechanics leave more time for the monster killing, which is the main point of the diablo series.
Customisation means choices which means thinking --> Thinking in a game ??? No way !!!
If I want to think, I play chess. Diabloo is IMO a ARPG and while there is some thougth going into builds and item selection, there is also a very big part of the game where you kinda braindead leftklick on anything that moves for hours...
Not to mention that most people just copy the uber build of the month from google and dont think a bit. Please spare me your generalisations that are out of place.
akin to the SoJ choice (ring that doesn't have trifecta stats, but does massive dmg to elites). If a LOT of the equipment had more choices like that where this isn't an easy to calculate clear cut answer, then I think things will be better off.
I think all these choices can be calculated and there will always be a better one unless they make all choices exactly the same, but then it's not a choice any more.
Who says I dont know this ? The point is that I like it. Diablo is a ARPG, not some super complex super epic real RPG like baldurs gate etc. Slick mechanics leave more time for the monster killing, which is the main point of the diablo series.
Actually Diablo was a super complex epic real ARPG.... Until D3 came around. You may love it. Seems to me you want it more stream lined like Gauntlet with the least amount of RPG qualities as possible.
You seem to have very narrow view of what Diablo meant to alot of people. Slick mechanics and killing monsters is just one aspect of it. But what about building actual new characters, skills, trading, item hunting, pking, dueling, ladders.
Hey, maybe you're happy with a basic hack n slash game. But you are in a small boat. No offense. And basically trying to tell people stop wishing for change is pretty weird..
For a person who likes to throw the troll word around this topic is pretty trollish... ;D
I really fail to see how D2 was "more complex" than D3. And let's not even talk about D1, which required less mental effort than Tetris on level 1.
Sure, you could level 10 chars to level 50 with different skills and "see" how the mechanics worked to figure out what your next char would be and then use your stashed items (or trade new ones) to create this guy... but not many players did this (at least trading was only done by the majority, as Blizzard once admitted themselves).
Theoretically, D3 offers mechanics for complexity as well - it's just that some skills are not balanced enough and the itemization is flawed, but both is being worked on. However, at the same time Diablo was never about complexity but is a fast-paced ARPG. If you want complexity, skip the "A" in ARPG and go play one of the other games (single player RPGs or MMORPGs), or PoE for that matter.
Blizzard will not turn Diablo in a complex pro-gamer franchise, they're headed the other direction.
Well, in the current itemization system, yeah adding more stats/customization is bad. However these suggestions are to be interpreted while keeping in mind an overhaul to itemization. Which includes the removal of many affixes and the adjustments of stat weights. I'm fairly certain that the developers have hinted toward the removal of affixes in any overhaul which is going down one day.
They could add some mutually exclusive stats. For example, CHC+CHD tend to roll together. They can now add “Average Damage+ Bleed (Weapon Damage based and stackable)”. ASI can roll with any of them.
The number of possible affixes on an item would remain the same, however the pool from which they're chosen will be greater.
You'd still have cc, cd, as, loh, ls but we'd get 3-4 more.
I dont think that they can make all attributes equally desirable. There will still be a best attribute that everybody wants. With moire affixes, your chance to get this best attribute is just smaller. How does that help us ?
I really fail to see how D2 was "more complex" than D3. And let's not even talk about D1, which required less mental effort than Tetris on level 1.
Sure, you could level 10 chars to level 50 with different skills and "see" how the mechanics worked to figure out what your next char would be and then use your stashed items (or trade new ones) to create this guy... but not many players did this (at least trading was only done by the majority, as Blizzard once admitted themselves).
Theoretically, D3 offers mechanics for complexity as well - it's just that some skills are not balanced enough and the itemization is flawed, but both is being worked on. However, at the same time Diablo was never about complexity but is a fast-paced ARPG. If you want complexity, skip the "A" in ARPG and go play one of the other games (single player RPGs or MMORPGs), or PoE for that matter.
Blizzard will not turn Diablo in a complex pro-gamer franchise, they're headed the other direction.
Well honestly, the other direction means just means more dumbed down. And D3 is the least complex ARPG I've ever played.
It kind of weird that you mention D2 not being complex and then tell me to go play POE if I want a complex game. POE is more in line with D2 then D3. So you are pretty much proving my point.
I brought this up a while ago and got a 'trolling' infraction ( which made no sense). But seriously, how would you feel if they just removed items and just focused on combat instead. I would probably enjoy the game a lot more if they did.
D2 will always be more complex for the simple fact of skill trees, builds and pvp . Im just not buying that D3 is complex in any shape or form. And the fact is im not alone, which is why people are constantly complaining about D3 and coming up with great ideas to fix this game.
you are only giving me reason by saying that, you dont read it through and have no idea what you are talking about
Agreed. The "viable" stats are already there, they are just not "optimal" (specially with the 75% Offense vs 25% Defense mentality).
People simply won't get Pants with CHD if it's mathematically known that getting EHP there, and then focusing their Offense on Jewelry is outright better. Which is precisely what happens today on most gear slots.
I mean, dumb hipsters like me will always think they're being awesome by getting 80 all res and Life% on a ring that has mediocre Crit Chance and meh Mainstat, and trade their Zunimassa's Marrow for a Tal Rasha's Relentless Pursuit and think it's great to keep that balance, but most others simply won't care - all that matters to them is a trifecta perfect ring. Everything else is "useless".
I mean, dumb hipsters like me will always think they're being awesome by getting 80 all res and Life% on a ring that has mediocre Crit Chance and meh Mainstat, and trade their Zunimassa's Marrow for a Tal Rasha's Relentless Pursuit and think it's great to keep that balance, but most others simply won't care - all that matters to them is a trifecta perfect ring. Everything else is "useless".
Sounds like my WD..lol
Meh, its not like rolling MP 10 is anything to be proud of. My WD only hangs with mp 3-4 and I couldn't care less.
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Why ? It is hard enugh to get a trifecta. if you add more stats, the trifectsas will become quadfectas or 5-fectas ! They will be even harder to get ! And your trifectas that are worth soemthing now will fall down to the price that 2-fectas have now.
As it is now, if you get a good ias, cc and chd damage roll, you have a good item. If you add more options to customise, you just add more rolls to it that ALSO have to be good, therefore making the best items even rarer.
How does that solve the problem that not enugh people have enugh good items ? It does not, exactly. it will just cost more gold and take more tries to get good items. We will just have to grind even more and have even more dissapointing item rolls.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
However, the Loot 2.0 thread was the first of these highly-praised suggestion threads in a long time that did not only focus on customization and new affixes. The ideas such as achievements to encourage finding legendaries yourself or the drastic change of NV+MF were great and made the thread for me (and not the Mystic and Photoshop parts, I don't need those).
@The others attacking Twoflower: he has a good point and when you tell him to "go back and read the thread again" I might as well say "go back and read up about the Mystic in beta and previous suggestion threads", because many highly-voted suggestion threads had actually close to zero new and applicable ideas. But I agree that it's odd to bring this up after the (in my opinion) best suggestion thread so far.
Sorry for the "attack" bit, was a bit uncalled for. But could you please point me to other threads like this? I don't remember any (serious, non-trolling, and well-phrased) threads that raise concerns about all the suggestion threads.
As I stated in the Loot 2.0 thread, I liked most of the ideas. This was not the case with all of the previous threads, sometimes it's just a rip-off of beta ideas or - just like Twoflower said - new items and affixes. By blowing up the system from 13 items and ~30ish affixes to ~20 items (Talisman etc.) and ~50 affixes, we don't solve anything. If any of the new affixes adds DPS, it becomes mandatory and will just become a new part in the ranking of affixes required on an item to be considered good.
I think it is good that Twoflower highlighted this point, as the Loot 2.0 thread will see many copycats in the following days and weeks. In the Loot 2.0 thread we discussed about MrMonstrosity's ideas - also, if you read his interview on the front page you will realize that he actually likes to see a discussion (and isn't just looking for "you're awesome bro" posts). But it isn't fair to use his thread for that, so why not discuss here what future suggestion threads should NOT incorporate?
if u think about how much dedication was put into those beautiful items and sets and the fact that, because 99% of the items are trash, we dont appreciate it enough.
id like cosmetic customization a lot!
much alike WoW Transmogrification!
Other solutions is of course also needed for all the other problems.
The various solutions aren't mutually exclusive.
Because as far as ARPGs go D3 has the least amount of customization in any ARPG I've ever seen. Especially when compared to D2.
How could you not know this?
And for the love of god, people need to stop begging for BOA... I see you people, lol.. Stop.
Agreed, I don't see any attacks.
This comes off a little unproductively, which I think is what they are referring to as an "attack." I have to agree; that was my first thought too.
Anyway, I think the point of loot 2.0 is to diversify unique abilities, not just add abilities. I'm assuming you aren't very far along in your character because where I'm sitting, Trifecta equipment is already worthless to me. Items with CC/CD/IAS also need base stat+ vit or AR. It's not uncommon to see some of my piers with all six. From my interpretation of loot 2.0 the choice will be something akin to the SoJ choice (ring that doesn't have trifecta stats, but does massive dmg to elites). If a LOT of the equipment had more choices like that where this isn't an easy to calculate clear cut answer, then I think things will be better off.
I dont have to deliver ideas, that is up to the game developers But I know that most of the stuff I read here would not improve the game IMO. Am I allowed to mention that, yes ? If you dont like it, nobody is forcing you to read or comment. Go fling a donkey or something.
I gotta admit that I have not read the loot 2.0 thread entirely yet. Will check it out for sure, it's the buzz at the moment
Who says I dont know this ? The point is that I like it. Diablo is a ARPG, not some super complex super epic real RPG like baldurs gate etc. Slick mechanics leave more time for the monster killing, which is the main point of the diablo series.
If I want to think, I play chess. Diabloo is IMO a ARPG and while there is some thougth going into builds and item selection, there is also a very big part of the game where you kinda braindead leftklick on anything that moves for hours...
Not to mention that most people just copy the uber build of the month from google and dont think a bit. Please spare me your generalisations that are out of place.
I think all these choices can be calculated and there will always be a better one unless they make all choices exactly the same, but then it's not a choice any more.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Actually Diablo was a super complex epic real ARPG.... Until D3 came around. You may love it. Seems to me you want it more stream lined like Gauntlet with the least amount of RPG qualities as possible.
You seem to have very narrow view of what Diablo meant to alot of people. Slick mechanics and killing monsters is just one aspect of it. But what about building actual new characters, skills, trading, item hunting, pking, dueling, ladders.
Hey, maybe you're happy with a basic hack n slash game. But you are in a small boat. No offense. And basically trying to tell people stop wishing for change is pretty weird..
For a person who likes to throw the troll word around this topic is pretty trollish... ;D
Sure, you could level 10 chars to level 50 with different skills and "see" how the mechanics worked to figure out what your next char would be and then use your stashed items (or trade new ones) to create this guy... but not many players did this (at least trading was only done by the majority, as Blizzard once admitted themselves).
Theoretically, D3 offers mechanics for complexity as well - it's just that some skills are not balanced enough and the itemization is flawed, but both is being worked on. However, at the same time Diablo was never about complexity but is a fast-paced ARPG. If you want complexity, skip the "A" in ARPG and go play one of the other games (single player RPGs or MMORPGs), or PoE for that matter.
Blizzard will not turn Diablo in a complex pro-gamer franchise, they're headed the other direction.
Bla bla bla.
As I wrote, I have not read it yet. Actually reading what I posted would help. Didnt even bother to read the rest of your post.
I dont think that they can make all attributes equally desirable. There will still be a best attribute that everybody wants. With moire affixes, your chance to get this best attribute is just smaller. How does that help us ?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Well honestly, the other direction means just means more dumbed down. And D3 is the least complex ARPG I've ever played.
It kind of weird that you mention D2 not being complex and then tell me to go play POE if I want a complex game. POE is more in line with D2 then D3. So you are pretty much proving my point.
I brought this up a while ago and got a 'trolling' infraction ( which made no sense). But seriously, how would you feel if they just removed items and just focused on combat instead. I would probably enjoy the game a lot more if they did.
D2 will always be more complex for the simple fact of skill trees, builds and pvp . Im just not buying that D3 is complex in any shape or form. And the fact is im not alone, which is why people are constantly complaining about D3 and coming up with great ideas to fix this game.
People simply won't get Pants with CHD if it's mathematically known that getting EHP there, and then focusing their Offense on Jewelry is outright better. Which is precisely what happens today on most gear slots.
I mean, dumb hipsters like me will always think they're being awesome by getting 80 all res and Life% on a ring that has mediocre Crit Chance and meh Mainstat, and trade their Zunimassa's Marrow for a Tal Rasha's Relentless Pursuit and think it's great to keep that balance, but most others simply won't care - all that matters to them is a trifecta perfect ring. Everything else is "useless".
Sounds like my WD..lol
Meh, its not like rolling MP 10 is anything to be proud of. My WD only hangs with mp 3-4 and I couldn't care less.