AHAHHA the worst idea I heard !!! the goal of blizzard is : when YOU CAST you'll vulnerable NOT when you don't casting you vulnerable. Totally Contrary, lol.
ok... i got it, was just a rough idea....
Though this could be a niiice skill... You active it and you start to regenerate "mana" like crazy but if it reachs the maximun value your magical power explodes and you take tons of damage !
How about if the wizard simply used his/her hit points to cast spells? Kind of the logical next step after mana shield (D1) and energy shield (D2).
I think it will be something like energy shield. You purged energies from your shield when you cast, and you have an insane regeneration. But wizard will have a poor defense and low health. So when you run out of energy you will be extremely vulnerable. It's the most obvious thing I'll see for wizard.
My problem with many of the systems I've seen here is the tendancy to integrate skill VARIETY into the wizards RESOURCE system.
Skill variety should arise from gameplay circumstances and not the resource system. A good example of this was the Diablo 3 skeletons with shields. When stunned these skeletons were unable to block leaving them vulnerable to a characters attacks. Immunities is an example of such a system that applies directly to the wizard.
DISCLAIMER: I will be the first to point out that Diablo 2 had some shortcomings with it's immunity system in regards to the end-game sorc. This however is not the point I'm trying to make.
For the wizard, when she's out of mana she just dies. And that's not fun. So if anything, we want to encourage how she plays. So she's the kind of character that blasts first and asks questions later. Very vulnerable. So we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there.
I still don't see the NECESSARY correlation between the two systems... The primary problem with integrating these becomes complexity. I'd also like to point out that neither the mana nor fury resource systems enforce the use of skill variety.
My problem with many of the systems I've seen here is the tendancy to integrate skill VARIETY into the wizards RESOURCE system.
Skill variety should arise from gameplay circumstances and not the resource system. A good example of this was the Diablo 3 skeletons with shields. When stunned these skeletons were unable to block leaving them vulnerable to a characters attacks. Immunities is an example of such a system that applies directly to the wizard.
DISCLAIMER: I will be the first to point out that Diablo 2 had some shortcomings with it's immunity system in regards to the end-game sorc. This however is not the point I'm trying to make.
Right, I think the skill you're going to choose mustn't come from resource system, it's like forced players to use a specific skill (I'm old enough to choose what I want). The skill you're going to choose must depend of situation/strategy you use/the resistances of monsters/ etc.
Quote from emilemil1 »
The variety is a side effect of the resource system. We are focusing on the quotes we have from Blizzard about it becoming a glass cannon. If it creates some variety it is even better.
The variety is a side effect of the resource system.
?
it becoming a glass cannon.
How it can means that you will have variety ?
If it creates some variety it is even better.
Yes they will create varieties, but you'll never be forced to be variate. Only if you want be useful depending the situation.
I just did. You quoted it. You will always use at least 2 skills. One for low fury and one for high. And probably one for AOE and one for single targets.
While in D2 you would have pure builds that only uses one skill. For example FO sorc or Frenzy barb. They broke the pattern with the fury system, so why not with the new Wizard system?
ohhh I understand : more you have fury, more the skills cost expensive and less you have fury, less the skills cost expensive.
I thought skills cost an amount of fury and more you're in action more you get fury. I doesn't knew that skills are separated in two ways : low and high, I thought that the costs of skills are equally distributed depending of the strengh of the skill.
I learn something ! lol
But barb almost hit physical, the choice are :
AoE
single target
(and I don't know if barb has a magic attack?)
And wizard have lot more possibilities :
each elements (ice, lightning, arcane, fire, poison, tornado(physical?))
single target
AoE
utilities (like teleport and slow time... etc)
...
With all those possibilities I think Wizard will be quite varied.
barb almost hit physical, the choice are :
AoE
single target
(and I don't know if barb has a magic attack?)
And wizard have lot more possibilities :
each elements (ice, lightning, arcane, fire, poison, tornado(physical?))
single target
AoE
utilities (like teleport and slow time... etc)
...
With all those possibilities I think Wizard will be quite varied.
Wizard will choose which spell take depending the situation, to be the most effective.
Barb only charge in the fight, so the solution to bringing more diversity is to having less strong attack and more strong attack. So he'll switch between those.
Once a barbarian has generated sufficient fury they should be able to sustain use of their strong attacks PROVIDED they remain in combat. This is emphasized withinh the current skills by the fact that fury management skills are passive. The active skills like furious charge and leap attack are damage skills that may be used to stay in combat. Consequently the fury system does not encorporate the variety system - it forces barbarians to stay in the fray.
I however leave further debate of the fury system to the barbarian sub-forum.
Back to the wizard: I would like to point out that the current wizard resource management skills (currently for mana) are also passive. While these skills will certainly change with the wizards new resource system I don't expect to see many active resource management skills.
I think what would help in outlining a resource system would be to first highlight the goals of the resource system. Based on the information we have been given, the goals as I see the wizard resource system trying to accomplish are (in order of importance):
Wizards need to be able to sustain high damage output throughout an encounter and each encounter
Wizards need to be able to cast any spell regardless of the resource status
Each spell cast by a wizard must consume some of the wizards resourse
Wizareds need a mechanism for recovering their resource
There must be some advantage to having a large amount of resource available
Once a barbarian has generated sufficient fury they should be able to sustain use of their strong attacks PROVIDED they remain in combat. This is emphasized withinh the current skills by the fact that fury management skills are passive. The active skills like furious charge and leap attack are damage skills that may be used to stay in combat. Consequently the fury system does not encorporate the variety system - it forces barbarians to stay in the fray.
I however leave further debate of the fury system to the barbarian sub-forum.
Back to the wizard: I would like to point out that the current wizard resource management skills (currently for mana) are also passive. While these skills will certainly change with the wizards new resource system I don't expect to see many active resource management skills.
I'm agree ! resource management mustn't be active.
I think what would help in outlining a resource system would be to first highlight the goals of the resource system. Based on the information we have been given, the goals as I see the wizard resource system trying to accomplish are (in order of importance):
Wizards need to be able to sustain high damage output throughout an encounter and each encounter
Wizards need to be able to cast any spell regardless of the resource status
Each spell cast by a wizard must consume some of the wizards resourse
Wizareds need a mechanism for recovering their resource
There must be some advantage to having a large amount of resource available
Comments?
I don't be noticed of that ?! where have you taken these info ?
I only heard "icy cannon" and Blizzard won't wizard lacking "mana"
1. true
2. mm I don't know (why having resource if it isn't change anything)
3. indeed
4. probably
5. I don't know
So, in regardless to have active skill to boost your "mana", I expecting a great regeneration of the resource. Or, each spell cost an amount of resource, when you have this amount of resource, you do more damage, if you haven't enough of resource you cast anyway but you doesn't make the maximum damage you're able to.
The list was something that I put together myself. It was inspired by the following:
Official Blizzard Quote:
Jay Wilson: Well for the Wizard we want to enforce the fact that she's a glass cannon. I don't think it's fun to ever run out of mana. I'm not really interested in an extended resource for her. For the WD we're okay with mana, since he's got some pretty good skills to recover mana that also double as attacks. And he's not defenseless when he's out of mana. He's got pets and ways to attack with them that aren't mana intensive. For him that makes mana fairly interesting.
For the wizard, when she's out of mana she just dies. And that's not fun. So if anything, we want to encourage how she plays. So she's the kind of character that blasts first and asks questions later. Very vulnerable. So we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there.
What he mean by : "an extended resource for her" ???
That's support my idea of energy shield "we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there."
"5. There must be some advantage to having a large amount of resource available"
Where in the Jay's quote you deducted that ?
We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty."
I think that item number 5 was perhaps poorly worded on my part. This was suppose to implement the "choice" part of the above quote. This could have been implemented as a perk when you have an abundance of resource or a penalty when your resource is low.
This could have been implemented as a perk when you have an abundance of resource or a penalty when your resource is low.
Ohh I understand and expected only a penalty when your resource is low.
Maybe a bonus when high, but I think it will not work like this.
Because many people will wanted to do the maximum effect, so they will waiting to cast for recover his resource (they will waiting = What blizzard trying to avoid)... Doesn't cast and waiting after mana potion or recover mana, for me are the same as waiting after mana to inflict more damage. You're finally waiting. It put you out of action for a moment.
what about a system in wich you increase your energy constantly, but if that energy gets full then it start to hurt you and you lose health... that will push the wiz into the action constantly so she uses the energy so she won't die, of course, in town this will not happen...
oh, for higer spells more quikly you energy grows so more you have to use them... maybe to OP?
gosh that sounds harsh. Its like the wizards brain is constantly expanding and if you dont stop if from expanding then poof! boom!
ok... i got it, was just a rough idea....
that could be nice
ok, lets just say "kilos of damage"
I think it will be something like energy shield. You purged energies from your shield when you cast, and you have an insane regeneration. But wizard will have a poor defense and low health. So when you run out of energy you will be extremely vulnerable. It's the most obvious thing I'll see for wizard.
Skill variety should arise from gameplay circumstances and not the resource system. A good example of this was the Diablo 3 skeletons with shields. When stunned these skeletons were unable to block leaving them vulnerable to a characters attacks. Immunities is an example of such a system that applies directly to the wizard.
DISCLAIMER: I will be the first to point out that Diablo 2 had some shortcomings with it's immunity system in regards to the end-game sorc. This however is not the point I'm trying to make.
For the wizard, when she's out of mana she just dies. And that's not fun. So if anything, we want to encourage how she plays. So she's the kind of character that blasts first and asks questions later. Very vulnerable. So we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there.
source
I still don't see the NECESSARY correlation between the two systems... The primary problem with integrating these becomes complexity. I'd also like to point out that neither the mana nor fury resource systems enforce the use of skill variety.
Have I missed an article item or something?
Right, I think the skill you're going to choose mustn't come from resource system, it's like forced players to use a specific skill (I'm old enough to choose what I want). The skill you're going to choose must depend of situation/strategy you use/the resistances of monsters/ etc.
?
How it can means that you will have variety ?
Yes they will create varieties, but you'll never be forced to be variate. Only if you want be useful depending the situation.
I don't understand how it's bring variety, whatever I cast the same skill or not, the cost of skill will depend of the quantity of fury you have.
I think you don't...
you couldn't be less accurate...
Ehhhhh because nobody will understand...
Please explain how barb will cast skill varied ? with what you said, it's impossible to understand ?
ohhh I understand : more you have fury, more the skills cost expensive and less you have fury, less the skills cost expensive.
I thought skills cost an amount of fury and more you're in action more you get fury. I doesn't knew that skills are separated in two ways : low and high, I thought that the costs of skills are equally distributed depending of the strengh of the skill.
But barb almost hit physical, the choice are :
AoE
single target
(and I don't know if barb has a magic attack?)
And wizard have lot more possibilities :
each elements (ice, lightning, arcane, fire, poison, tornado(physical?))
single target
AoE
utilities (like teleport and slow time... etc)
...
With all those possibilities I think Wizard will be quite varied.
Did you understand my point ?
Wizard will choose which spell take depending the situation, to be the most effective.
Barb only charge in the fight, so the solution to bringing more diversity is to having less strong attack and more strong attack. So he'll switch between those.
I however leave further debate of the fury system to the barbarian sub-forum.
Back to the wizard: I would like to point out that the current wizard resource management skills (currently for mana) are also passive. While these skills will certainly change with the wizards new resource system I don't expect to see many active resource management skills.
I think what would help in outlining a resource system would be to first highlight the goals of the resource system. Based on the information we have been given, the goals as I see the wizard resource system trying to accomplish are (in order of importance):
I'm agree ! resource management mustn't be active.
I don't be noticed of that ?! where have you taken these info ?
I only heard "icy cannon" and Blizzard won't wizard lacking "mana"
1. true
2. mm I don't know (why having resource if it isn't change anything)
3. indeed
4. probably
5. I don't know
So, in regardless to have active skill to boost your "mana", I expecting a great regeneration of the resource. Or, each spell cost an amount of resource, when you have this amount of resource, you do more damage, if you haven't enough of resource you cast anyway but you doesn't make the maximum damage you're able to.
Jay Wilson: Well for the Wizard we want to enforce the fact that she's a glass cannon. I don't think it's fun to ever run out of mana. I'm not really interested in an extended resource for her. For the WD we're okay with mana, since he's got some pretty good skills to recover mana that also double as attacks. And he's not defenseless when he's out of mana. He's got pets and ways to attack with them that aren't mana intensive. For him that makes mana fairly interesting.
For the wizard, when she's out of mana she just dies. And that's not fun. So if anything, we want to encourage how she plays. So she's the kind of character that blasts first and asks questions later. Very vulnerable. So we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there.
That's support my idea of energy shield
"we want to implement a system that makes her more blasty, but even more vulnerable. We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty." And that's a cool gameplay pull there."
"5. There must be some advantage to having a large amount of resource available"
Where in the Jay's quote you deducted that ?
We want to make that a choice for the player. "Do I want to make myself more vulnerable in exchange for being more blasty."
I think that item number 5 was perhaps poorly worded on my part. This was suppose to implement the "choice" part of the above quote. This could have been implemented as a perk when you have an abundance of resource or a penalty when your resource is low.
This is the best idea so far in this thread
Ohh I understand and expected only a penalty when your resource is low.
Maybe a bonus when high, but I think it will not work like this.
Because many people will wanted to do the maximum effect, so they will waiting to cast for recover his resource (they will waiting = What blizzard trying to avoid)... Doesn't cast and waiting after mana potion or recover mana, for me are the same as waiting after mana to inflict more damage. You're finally waiting. It put you out of action for a moment.
gosh that sounds harsh. Its like the wizards brain is constantly expanding and if you dont stop if from expanding then poof! boom!