I would really be happy with the Wizard for D3 if it used not only its strong spells, but used its weaker spells as well in order to build up to the higher ones.
For example, the lowest rank spells don't cost any "energy" at all. Using them on a monster actually makes you generate some "energy". The next level up of spells could make you generate some energy, but not nearly as much. Assuming there is a fourth rank, that takes a way a little bit of "energy". And the highest ranking of spells takes away a lot of energy.
Just a really simple idea, I have no idea what it would be called or if it would work that well.
Comment on what you think of it
to the OP, as of the most recent interview with Jay Wilson, I do not think this will be the case. it sounds like blizzard wants to emphasize quick release of power with vulnerability following.
I would suggest that the system might be something like Tribes. remember if you had an energy based weapon, and you used all of your energy you would be unable to fly (or use a shield pack) until your energy was restored.
or perhaps another more recent game to compare it to would be world of warcraft. I am guessing that wizards will use an energy system *sort of* like a rogue for their defensive and offensive abilities. perhaps their defensive abilities will passively use energy (i.e. a talent where x% of damage is nullified or w/e for however much energy you currently have... but no energy is actually consumed, so i guess it's not really using energy, it's just monitoring it) and offensive abilities will actively use energy (spell costs X amount of energy). energy is restored quickly over time - not by kills or anything.
this way if you are full on energy, you aren't killing anything, but you have stronger defenses. if you are empty on energy, you are killing stuff, but your defenses are lessened in proportion to how quickly you are killing things.
Theres just alot of different possibilities, and its looking like the waitng to recharge is out, blizz wants us to stay in action. There so many ways it could be taken, and nothings for sure untill its further developed.
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When I first posted this thread, I didn't think to add this in-
As someone said, the barbarian's fury goes down to zero after a few seconds of not being in combat. I was thinking that for the wizard, it should slowly regenerate to or decrease to to the middle of a bar. Using higher level skills would decrease the meter of the bar, using lower ones would bring up the meter.
This could also implement in the "overheating" idea in two ways.
If she "overheats" by trying to use too many high ranked spells where she doesn't have enough fuel, her health starts to go down in proportion to how much she is casting, unless she is using low rank spells that will generate fuel.
If you keep saving up the wizards fuel and it's all the way at the top because you are spamming a level one spell, she will underheat for not using her potential energy she knows she can release, you could start losing health.
When I read the quote about the volatility of the wizard's resource, I immediately thought of 'ether,' which if I'm not mistaken was used to restore mana in final fantasy. Of course the volatile ether is really just an organic solvent that is also used as an anesthetic, and I think the final fantasy ether was more like aether, or some kinda fifth element with mystical properties or something, so really two different ethers.
At any rate, I think blizzard's goal is that the wizard will never have to stop casting spells and run away from the battle and wait for his/her mana to regen. Since they also want the wizard to be a 'glass cannon,' I was imagining a system where casting spells would somehow lower your defenses or make you more vulnerable. Obviously though, at some point you'd either reach a point where your defense doesn't drop any further, or the damage you take is amplified by so much that any monster can kill you in a single blow.
I like the idea presented in the original post much better! You never have to stop casting spells, and there will be some balance between weaker spells and more powerful spells to even things out. Cool ideas!
What I understand is wizard will be able to cast quickly fast without break. But more he cast more he's vulnerable. I have two ideas :
life will be the energy but it can't go under 1 hp
or
some thing like energy armor, when he don't cast, energy armor protect wizard but when he casting he's vulerable to be hit and he don't have too much of life.
Perhaps a default mana shield that is drained the more mana-hungry spells you cast.
Sound good for me, and I think about something like that ! but you never stop casting because you don't have mana in your mana shield. More mana is low more that increase faster and more mana is high more time is take to be full (exponentially). For big spell, i think of casting time (waiting x seconds before casting again).
I still think most of the systems mentioned in this thread are too complicated for Diablo. Charging up certain spells to cast others, how do you keep track of this. Balancing two different sources of magic to cast different spells. Balancing your life with magic to cast spells, nobody on hardcore would ever play the wizard. Keep in mind that blizzard thought that the simple ball mechanic of the barbarian was too complex for diablo and changed it. So if that was too complicated, most of these ideas are too complicated for diablo. I think the best idea so far was the use smaller spells to build up a resource, and the bigger spells would use that resource. The biggest problem with that is with a fragile class, you need to be able to come out swinging, duration is never good for a fragile class. Wizards need to be able to start off strong.
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Then maybe add a cooldown for the stronger spells, and while you are waiting for the cd, you cast weaker spells...
The reason i keep mentioning the difference between strong and weak spells is the simple reason that i think the Wizard shouldn't be able to spam the same spell over and over again, all the time. Like in D2... I want more diversity you know.
Charging up certain spells to cast others, how do you keep track of this.
The Assassin did good with this.
They charged up their "charge" skills and then used their finishing attacks.
You could keep up with your charge by watching the orbs.
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
I still think most of the systems mentioned in this thread are too complicated for Diablo. Charging up certain spells to cast others, how do you keep track of this. Balancing two different sources of magic to cast different spells. Balancing your life with magic to cast spells, nobody on hardcore would ever play the wizard. Keep in mind that blizzard thought that the simple ball mechanic of the barbarian was too complex for diablo and changed it. So if that was too complicated, most of these ideas are too complicated for diablo. I think the best idea so far was the use smaller spells to build up a resource, and the bigger spells would use that resource. The biggest problem with that is with a fragile class, you need to be able to come out swinging, duration is never good for a fragile class. Wizards need to be able to start off strong.
I don't like you idea, I find it like you said : too complicated...
The best idea is mana shield, your spell cost mana in your shield... When you analysis what blizzard said "icy cannon" it's what I see and what I expect. Cold down for bigger spell is the key !
And you never thought of perhaps a strong natural regeneration that is active when out of combat?
no, why would wizards get more health regen than any other class just because they are fragile, the point is that the power is a trade off for survivability. Limiting there power makes them weaker than any other class.
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What? I'm talking about energy regeneration o.O You were complaining about not beeing able to "come out swinging" (which I translate to beeing able to fight effectively right away) your way into combat, which obviously requires a lot of energy, thus regeneration.
then you are talking about a simple mana pool which they said wizards are not using. The point of this thread is to discuss different energy sources other than mana pools.
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Yea, but that would defeat the purpose of small spells building up your resource. If you had two ways to build it up it would be unbalanced. I don't want the spell build up source, it is just the most simple but it has it's problems too. I have a feeling blizzard might realize that in diablo there is nothig wrong with mana and may scrap the idea of differnig resource mechanics and go back to mana. They already has struggles with the barbs fury and they want to add three more.
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I never said weak spells were useless. I said that small spells building up your resource would be useless. You do regain your energy source from the orbs that drop, this can be seen in the gameplay videos. Therefore, if you have spells to regain energy, orbs to regain energy and out of combat regen to regain energy, you would always have energy, thus OP.
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The idea of casting small spell to regain energy is just no sense. If I'm logical, all spell come from energy so why casting can give energy ? normaly it's need energy !!
How you'll dertermine when the spell is "small" ? when you start the first spell is considered for small or big one ??
I just don't like the concept of that idea, it's ridiculous and unlogical...
Casting small spell only less decrease your energy and casting big spell decrease more your energy ! it's simple ?
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to the OP, as of the most recent interview with Jay Wilson, I do not think this will be the case. it sounds like blizzard wants to emphasize quick release of power with vulnerability following.
I would suggest that the system might be something like Tribes. remember if you had an energy based weapon, and you used all of your energy you would be unable to fly (or use a shield pack) until your energy was restored.
or perhaps another more recent game to compare it to would be world of warcraft. I am guessing that wizards will use an energy system *sort of* like a rogue for their defensive and offensive abilities. perhaps their defensive abilities will passively use energy (i.e. a talent where x% of damage is nullified or w/e for however much energy you currently have... but no energy is actually consumed, so i guess it's not really using energy, it's just monitoring it) and offensive abilities will actively use energy (spell costs X amount of energy). energy is restored quickly over time - not by kills or anything.
this way if you are full on energy, you aren't killing anything, but you have stronger defenses. if you are empty on energy, you are killing stuff, but your defenses are lessened in proportion to how quickly you are killing things.
what do you guys think?
As someone said, the barbarian's fury goes down to zero after a few seconds of not being in combat. I was thinking that for the wizard, it should slowly regenerate to or decrease to to the middle of a bar. Using higher level skills would decrease the meter of the bar, using lower ones would bring up the meter.
This could also implement in the "overheating" idea in two ways.
If she "overheats" by trying to use too many high ranked spells where she doesn't have enough fuel, her health starts to go down in proportion to how much she is casting, unless she is using low rank spells that will generate fuel.
If you keep saving up the wizards fuel and it's all the way at the top because you are spamming a level one spell, she will underheat for not using her potential energy she knows she can release, you could start losing health.
At any rate, I think blizzard's goal is that the wizard will never have to stop casting spells and run away from the battle and wait for his/her mana to regen. Since they also want the wizard to be a 'glass cannon,' I was imagining a system where casting spells would somehow lower your defenses or make you more vulnerable. Obviously though, at some point you'd either reach a point where your defense doesn't drop any further, or the damage you take is amplified by so much that any monster can kill you in a single blow.
I like the idea presented in the original post much better! You never have to stop casting spells, and there will be some balance between weaker spells and more powerful spells to even things out. Cool ideas!
life will be the energy but it can't go under 1 hp
or
some thing like energy armor, when he don't cast, energy armor protect wizard but when he casting he's vulerable to be hit and he don't have too much of life.
Not a milky white but a glistening white.
I don't know why, but it just sounds right to me.
Sound good for me, and I think about something like that ! but you never stop casting because you don't have mana in your mana shield. More mana is low more that increase faster and more mana is high more time is take to be full (exponentially). For big spell, i think of casting time (waiting x seconds before casting again).
Complicating the Wizard's energy system is not something we are looking for...
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The reason i keep mentioning the difference between strong and weak spells is the simple reason that i think the Wizard shouldn't be able to spam the same spell over and over again, all the time. Like in D2... I want more diversity you know.
The Assassin did good with this.
They charged up their "charge" skills and then used their finishing attacks.
You could keep up with your charge by watching the orbs.
I don't like you idea, I find it like you said : too complicated...
The best idea is mana shield, your spell cost mana in your shield... When you analysis what blizzard said "icy cannon" it's what I see and what I expect. Cold down for bigger spell is the key !
no, why would wizards get more health regen than any other class just because they are fragile, the point is that the power is a trade off for survivability. Limiting there power makes them weaker than any other class.
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then you are talking about a simple mana pool which they said wizards are not using. The point of this thread is to discuss different energy sources other than mana pools.
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How you'll dertermine when the spell is "small" ? when you start the first spell is considered for small or big one ??
I just don't like the concept of that idea, it's ridiculous and unlogical...
Casting small spell only less decrease your energy and casting big spell decrease more your energy ! it's simple ?