You aren't going to see people chaining CC on a target with the idea of keeping them out of the battle strategically for 10 seconds at a proper time.
Those are all just things you "do" and get the automatic effect from, you don't time them with teammates or really care if they overlap with someone elses abilities.
You can't tell what someone is casting, so you can't interupt intelligently, and the cast times are often so short you'd probably just mess up anyways. You can blanket stun them with the effort of not letting them cast for a short time, but it's not the same as interupting a key spell and locking that spell out for a while-- or the entire school of magic.
I dunno...I was just fighting this thief on my necromancer in structured pvp 1v1. He didn't CC me or really do anything, but I was getting hurt and he was staying at 100% life lol.....
"He skillfully negated everything I did for 20 seconds..."......I guess that will be your rebutal....
Well it sounds to me like yeah he did something right if he managed to stay at full HP.
To say you won't see people chaining CC either is a little presumptuous. You don't see that a lot in casual PvP in WoW either. You see that from the people who PvP a lot. You're acting like it's impossible when in fact it's completely possible you just have to adjust to knowing when and coordinating with your team, like in WoW.
Nothing is just a thing you "do". That can be said about any game if you use the term so loosely. You activate a skill to counter another just like in WoW. It's not automatic. There are passive bonuses on some signets but to actually use them effectively in PvP you have to activate them. Just like in WoW you have a passive stat on a trinket but to make use of it you activate it.
You don't need to know what they're casting, if you're that serious about PvP you'll know what each classes weapon set has to offer, it doesn't need to be on a named bar to know what might be coming at you.
I think you're getting very hung up on what plays different about the game and not liking the fact it plays different. All of the core stuff you've mentioned is still there.
From what I've heard, which is absolutely subjective since I haven't played GW2 myself, it simply doesn't follow the path that Blizz have for all their games: Easy to learn, hard to master.
As much as some people might defend PvP in GW2, like you Mad, I'm sure, that you'll never see the type of PvP in ANY MMO game that a 3v3 Arena can do in WoW. Complexity and timing are things with split second decisions measured across two teams of players. The flexibility of the engine enables for great mind leaps when it comes down to instincts and taking action. To get on top your brain needs to be on another level at that point in time.
Not to mention teamwork and logistics in 25man competitive raiding. You start off with individual preparedness, then team preparedness and readiness, examining tactics, which sometimes takes tens of minutes (huge for this sort of game), VERY specific roles in the teams, lots of situational elements. Remember, we're talking top 50 guilds, not your everyday Joe casual guild that raids for 1 day, killing maybe 1 boss.
PvP in any game is about split second timing. Even shooters are about split second timing, and although there is no 3v3 in Gw2, the system works no different.
Raiding I never really cared for in the first place, requires too much time, but I can say having done some of it and watching it progress more and more over the years that throwing your body into the boss until the stars align and the right situation allows you to down it doesn't take a whole lot of skill.Sure there are guilds who are far better at it but that again just comes down to basic reaction times.
The reason WoW is more known for these things is because it has a established fanbase that we see more often.
Almost nothing you said holds truth from my point of view, Dae. I specifically didn't say "PvP in all games" but said MMOs, because in them timing might be important but is not "split second" as it is in WoW (and other non-MMO games). A single well timed spell can turn the whole battle around and during a normal arena match there are hundreds of such moments. The execution in WoW is absolutely flawless in that perspective because the engine has been built around exactly that instantaneous turn of events that each player can achieve. It's fluid, dynamic and unprecedented.
And in raiding "slamming your body against a boss" is exactly what separates good guilds from average such. No one in a pro guild "slams their body". Great team timing and incredibly precise movement is required to be in the top 50 guilds and achieve things most people won't even after dungeon nerfs and player buffs 2 patches later.
At the end of the day I'm not attacking GW2 but defending WoW for what it's been known for for years and what has kept the attention of millions of players for 8 years now. Pro player competitive content. I know GW2 is not meant to be like that and is more inviting to casual players, and that's exactly the reason I'm defending the old mammoth in this industry and his philosophy and qualities.
You're arguing split second actions in WoW are somehow different from ones in most mmo's but they're not. The only difference is a lot of mmo's make it easier to recover if you don't take that split second action. WoW has plenty of places where it's not as important (questing, dungeons) just like Guildwars 2 has places where it is just as important, (PvP, some boss encounters where you can literally be one shot if you don't dodge) whether people choose to make use of those split second actions to full potential is up to them.
I'm not saying all guilds throw themselves at bosses, I said the good ones make use of the reaction time. Timing is very important in a lot of MMOs.
Knowing exactly when to use the right skill is important in a lot of games. You're saying somehow WoW is a special situation, but it's not. Most games and encounters just end up getting nerfed because people don't want to make those fast reactions and the content ends up feeling too hard so they nerf it.
This also has nothing to do with WoW's engine. The amount of weight and importance they put behind some abilities has nothing to do with the engine. Designing a 8 second CC is a design choice of the skill and the mechanics.
My point is it's no more or less important in WoW than it is any other MMO, or game in general. If people choose to not make the most of timing then they won't be as good as they could be. The only reason it's highlighted more in WoW is because WoW has been around a long time and is very popular. Also I'm not sure why you feel the need to come "defend the old mammoth" because I don't remember seeing anyone attacking WoW for you to need to defend it.
At first I wrote a pretty comprehensive reply but I guess the smarter move is to not continue this dialogue. I can see where WoW has failed you and I have my reasons for not liking what I see in other MMOs and in this context in GW2. So here we are.
I wish gamers could just stick to what they like, and not feel the need to go to other people and say their game of choice is bad, simply because they themselves didn't like it. I don't mind a bit of discussion / debate between two games, as long as it's civil and well articulated beyond japes. (Sorry if anyone takes offense to this.. I just.. get tired of it all the time. On every discussion board I go to..)
With that out of the way, I can see why people could claim GW2 as being more casual friendly. Out of the 2 (WoW + GW2) I've personally had a lot more fun playing GW2 on a casual level. In WoW I had a limited amount of choices on what to do with my free time. Most of which revolved around a gear grind (PvP, Raiding, Dungeons). I could level alts but at the time when I called it quits I pretty much had all of the classes at max level or close enough to it. I really enjoyed raiding in WoW when I had a decent team and didn't have much else going on (let's face it raiding is a huge time sink no matter how often you do raid). I could have found another team that raided less frequently but I just wasn't feeling it.
I tried a lot of MMOs between my time in WoW and my time in GW2. After the initial "Wow this is new!" wore off most MMOs didn't keep my interest and I unsubbed. The most fun I had was oddly enough in RIFT, mostly due to the exploration and the chests you could find in zones on top of mountains or "jumping puzzles" type deals. They also had these cool puzzles in each zone that were actual puzzles that required solving. I also had quite a bit of fun in TERA until the new combat style's "new factor" wore off, and when I realized just how poorly the game was being handled in the West.
Since picking up GW2 I've been having a lot of fun in the casual side of things. There is a lot for me to do, which helps with the game being "new" where I can play multiple classes without feeling like I've done it all before. Just to give you an idea of how casual I've been playing, since having the game during the pre-launch event, my highest leveled character is 44. Other than her I have a 21 Thief, and a couple other lowbies below 10. With the lack of subscription I can play whenever I have time without feeling like I'm wasting money by not playing.
I've ran some of the dungeons, which are pretty fun actually. The lack of the "holy trinity" really helps make things interesting. Some of the fights are almost on par with WoW heroic difficulties, with the possibility of one hit kills and having to kite certain bosses away from other aspects of the fight. I've only ran the level 30 and level 40 dungeons, so I can't comment much on anything after that.
I'm not missing the gear grind. I love playing with dyes for my gear and keeping the look I like rather than having to wear whatever the game wants me to at the time. I realize you can transmog in WoW, but it's so much easier and "on-the-fly" in GW2.
Just to give you an idea of how casual I've been playing, since having the game during the pre-launch event, my highest leveled character is 44. Other than her I have a 21 Thief, and a couple other lowbies below 10.
Please. You should see Daemaro's characters. He's the epitome of casual.
All I'm going to say is that the game is really enjoyable after the initial "magic" wears off if you get used to three things:
1. Understanding what combos actually do, like, for real.
2. Getting used to weapon swapping in combat (having two sets of weapon skills to mess around with during a fight)
3. Using dodge often and using it correctly.
If you get a handle on working in combos, swapping between two weapons in combat and dodging during that entire time, You'll see the appeal of what Guild Wars 2 has to offer.
Now, if you honestly and truely have gotten a handle on these things, and you still want to argue with walls of text about how you don't like it, then maybe the game really isn't for you. Or maybe you're just a goober. Not sure which tbh.
NOW if you want to complain that the game gets grindy past lv 30 or about how it's not like WoW (LOL?), then MAYBE you can make an arguement about it. I mostly see opinions and jibber jabber in the OP's post.
If it's not your cup of tea, no big. There's a crapton of games that have been released this past year.
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