Yeah, it makes about as much sense as teaching the theory that the moon is made of cheese. I'm sure you could find just as much to substantiate that claim as for creationism.
mmm cheese
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
So Umpa, as you can see you came back just in time for more religious talk! Yaaaay.
Damnit guys this was supposed to be about Jesus doing awesome things like riding a harley over a pit of sharks with a bandolier, super ripped abs, an american flag bandana, some sunglasses, smoking a cigar and firing off two assault rifles into the air while an eagle soars majestically in the background, not serious talk about how laughable religion is.
How's this for a start
I took this photo actually!
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
So Umpa, as you can see you came back just in time for more religious talk! Yaaaay.
Damnit guys this was supposed to be about Jesus doing awesome things like riding a harley over a pit of sharks with a bandolier, super ripped abs, an american flag bandana, some sunglasses, smoking a cigar and firing off two assault rifles into the air while an eagle soars majestically in the background, not serious talk about how laughable religion is.
America and Americans fucking suck in that regard.
Yeah, I'm pretty much done with this place. I have a lot of reasons why and they all weave together like a sad, sad quilt.
If you are talking about Dfans, I appologize? o.O
If you are talking about America, then yea, I understand.
Oh, yeah, I'm talking about America.
Our politics is shit, people are too immature with their opinions, people abuse their rights to hurt others, people are too stubborn to accept that some things are inevitable (such as the movement to clean energy) and will offer their bullshit arguments and leave it at that.
We, as a collective people, have gotten too comfortable with an "us vs. them" mentality. That's why nothing gets done in this fucking place. You can't stop progress and if that means that we will see an ultimate divide and our two most conflicting ideologies come to a head, then I would love to move my friends and family somewhere far away such as to not get them involved in the implosion.
The only thing I can appreciate about this place anymore is the nature and whiskey distilleries.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Nobody "needs belief," anymore than my alcoholic father used to "need," his whiskey to get through the day.
Dealing with reality can be handled by two methods:
1. Confronting it rationally
2. Ignoring rationality by self-deception
Whether that self-deception is soaking every last tissue in one's body with Tennessee's finest or continuously ignoring day-to-day reality to insist that mythological laws mean more than empirical facts, the resulting intellectual and emotional ineptitude is the same.
I've protested the right of gays to equal treatment and marriage time and again and I will do so again when/if the chance emerges. As I said "My fellow man's freedom and mine"!
I've participated in rallies and various events in the Atlanta area every month for the last twenty years. If you'd like some information on where a local protest is happening I would be happy to oblige you. I'm well connected and I assure you the struggle is ongoing and not sporadic.
That being said I can't, assume all religious people are idiotic biggots, just cause a large number of them are. You being gay can understand how racist that would be on my part.
Religion isn't a race or ethnicity, but I do understand what you mean. Unfortunately this line of reasoning doesn't hold water. Being irrational in a religious manner is always harmful to the community. At the very least it is divisive, at the worst it is down-right hateful. An apology for those who simply want to believe in the sky spirit allows the "all faggots belong in hell and I'm going to send them there," crowd a free pass to spew their filth in the public square and legislate it into state and local laws.
However I can aswell understand where you come from and what quarrels you got with religion. Oh the times church and state were trully set apart, how I envy them (or long for them, since I don't think they trully ever have...).
Religion re-entered government around the time the red scare was happening. Successive presidents used Christianity to differentiate the American global empire from the USSR's own quest for influence. Read about when "god," made it onto our currency, into our pledge, etc. You'll be amused at just how recent these changes everyone thinks the founders cared about were.
So Umpa, as you can see you came back just in time for more religious talk! Yaaaay.
Damnit guys this was supposed to be about Jesus doing awesome things like riding a harley over a pit of sharks with a bandolier, super ripped abs, an american flag bandana, some sunglasses, smoking a cigar and firing off two assault rifles into the air while an eagle soars majestically in the background, not serious talk about how laughable religion is.
How's this for a start
I took this photo actually!
did you took it with a potato?
I took it with a side of Cow!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
So Umpa, as you can see you came back just in time for more religious talk! Yaaaay.
Damnit guys this was supposed to be about Jesus doing awesome things like riding a harley over a pit of sharks with a bandolier, super ripped abs, an american flag bandana, some sunglasses, smoking a cigar and firing off two assault rifles into the air while an eagle soars majestically in the background, not serious talk about how laughable religion is.
How's this for a start
I took this photo actually!
did you took it with a potato?
I took it with a side of Cow!
I should've guessed it, how else you would get such a good definition 2000 years ago
Honestly though I'd rather have the regular ole two boob combo. Where would I rest my head with three? I'd just have to lay right on top of a boob which would probably be uncomfortable.
You can't motorboat to it's full potential either, there would be one lonely side of cleavage.
Well I wouldn't say nothing. Creationism is based on the belief that a Divine being created everything, thus eliminating Evolution as possible for the most hardcore Christians/Catholics whom will stand with their faith regardless. But there are also many Christians/Catholics, I believe, which do believe in Evolution rather than Creationism.
Evolution competes with one facet of religion. On that note, EVERYTHING can be viewed as competing with a facet of religion.
Hell, the Empire State Building competes with Christianity!
Data that might prove God exist? Or data that is pro-Christianity?
Neither. Just new data. The data may point towards religion, or away, or it may have nothing to do with religion, new data is just new data and its always awesome to get new data.
Jesus healing dying people of incurable diseases, turning stuff into wine and bread, being dead for 3 days and awakening after that (most of these are probably figurative meanings but still). I don't believe these kind of miracles because I can't comprehend it (like you said), since it doesn't happen in our world.
Jesus dying and coming back three days later to go to heaven is the basis of Christianity. How are you a Christian if you don't believing in that?
(Well, Jesus dying and Adam and Eve fucking shit up.)
Back to the original point, teach both view points and let kids question and decide or them selves. They would at least have a chance to question something rather than be spoon fed one opinion.
Okay. Lets say we teach two points. One is, obviously, Science/Facts/Truth. Then we have religion. Which religion? The Jewish view that God hates everybody but the Jews? The Christian view that you are shit unless you accept Jesus? The Muslim view that everybody is fucking shit up and only Muhammed has it right? The Wiccan view in the Maiden, Mother, and Crone? The Hindu view that you are going to die and become a rat? The Scientologist view that money=salvation? (That's also the catholic view, but that's another story.)
How do you decide which view to teach beside Science/Facts/Truth?
I hear Christians throw this argument but whenever I suggest bringing in a High Priestess to perform a spell of blessings, they get all freaked out...
To summarize, keep faiths in their respective sections and not in my Physics/Biology/Chemistry/Health/Astronomy/History classes.
Our politics is shit, people are too immature with their opinions, people abuse their rights to hurt others, people are too stubborn to accept that some things are inevitable (such as the movement to clean energy) and will offer their bullshit arguments and leave it at that.
Our politics are shit because our population is ignorant as shit. Go out and ask anybody to name the second element in the Periodic table. They will stare at you like deer in headlights.
As for opinions, some refuse to express them and others express them too much.
"Science (from Latinscientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.[1] In an older and closely related meaning (found, for example, in Aristotle), "science" refers to the body of reliable knowledge itself, of the type that can be logically and rationally explained."
Notice the key words and phrases: Knowledge, Testable Explanations and Predictions, Logically and Rationally explained.
Before I make my final point I would like to also quote the definition of the word theory, as used in a scientific context: "The United States National Academy of Sciencesdefines scientific theories as follows:
The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence. Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics)...One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed."
That last part, I just included because I've seen a lot of people claim that "it's just a theory", when it comes to evolution.
If you've read what I've posted till now (congratulations, I'm sure it wasn't easy), I am pretty sure you can understand where I am getting to. I myself am a non-believer, but that is a matter of choice, one that I made in my teen years, probably out of my will to rebel against my (not at all hardcore) christian upbringing and that I've come to support through the years out of what I believe to be rationality and knowledge according to my definition of the two. However, I can understand some peoples' need for belief and I have no quarrel nor interest about it, it's a personal choice as afformentioned.
HOWEVER, when it comes to teaching in schools, it is MORE THAN NECESSARY, that we keep, non-science, out of science related classes, if for nothing else, just so we don't get ourselves back to the dark ages. One must not concider a "variety of choice" a good thing when it comes to teaching a good thing, else we might aswell start teaching that 2+2=3 and let the children decide on which of the two "theories" they want to believe.
Just my 2 hundred bucks (since cents they certainly are not) on the debate.
EDIT: I've seemed to have fucked up my post, by messing to much with the tools (silly me). Highlight the text to read it since I can't seem to find a way to fix it :P. If a good mod could help me I'd appreciate it
I like a lot of what you say. (I also tried to make it that white-yellow color that is the default of the site, but I think I failed... Haven't checked before posting though, so...if it worked then it was all part of the plan. Totally.)
I do disagree with the definition of Science though.
I tend to view Science in a manner that Carl Sagan Viewed it.
“Science is more than a body of knowledge, it’s a way of thinking. A way of skeptically interrogating the universe with a fine understanding of human fallibility. If we are not able to ask skeptical questions, to interrogate those who tell us that something is true, to be skeptical of those in authority, then we’re up for grabs for the next charlatan, political or religious, who comes ambling along.”
I am not one to bash anything unless it affects my fellow man's freedom and mine. I aren't many things, some of them being: believer, vegetarian, gay, German. As long as any of them don't mess with me and as I said my freedoms I have no problem with them whatsoever. Granted though, that out of all of them, religion is the one that causes problems a lot more often than the rest, but hey, so do the Germans... hihihi!!!
I will never understand a Christian Homosexual. Especially an African American Christian Homosexual.
It's like they hate themselves...
Granted, I was a bisexual and a Christian for a long time, so... >.>
I've actually read quite a bit, about how your founding fathers were a LOT less into religion than they are made out to be. Something about Franklin, lighthouses and churches that I really can't seem to recollect at this late an hour
Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
-Benjamin Franklin.
I'm still waiting to hear what convinced you not to doubt, which (as far as I can tell) is the default setting of a rational mind.
You're gonna be disappointed cause I don't have the answer. I know I said that through the internet, with it's convincing arguments, swayed my mind to both ends, but that paragraph was kinda written in the spur of the moment (I've never argue or even talk about religion/evolution/creationism with people)...
I apologize in advance for my storytelling. I really don't know how to tackle these arguments...maybe I should just leave it at this post, cause I know very little about it and can only truly speak through personal experiences...(maybe this can be my first post in your necro religion thread )
As a kid (till like 12-13 years old) me and my bros went to church each Sunday with my mother. Through high school I hardly went to church. The reason for it wasn't in any way religious (still isn't, I'm just lazy and see no point in it). Religion didn't bother me then and I didn't think about it at all (in the sense that I didn't question Christianity and/or whether God existed; my mind was just like meh).
You'll be happy to know this is finally where the internet come into play! (unfortunately still not what you're looking for) I had very little interest on what was going on on the internet through high school, but now in University with 24 hour internet I started spending sooooooooooo much time on it. And eventually you'll come across religious articles/threads or just random quotes (there's nothing specific to give unfortunately). This is then the first time I really started to think about religion after having a meh mind in high school. Our current argument is a first for me in fact.
So basically: toddler (no internet; full blown Christian [Catholic pun intended?], actually just a normal Christian) - teenage (partly internet; meh Christian) - young adult (full blown internet; open minded Christian questioning his faith).
So there wasn't really any sort of convincing to not put me in doubt, just that it's how I was at a younger age. Now that I reread my previous post it differs quite a lot... (Probably my troubled mind not knowing what it wants.)
I know this is a poor argument since I've given NO FACTS WHICH PEOPLE WANT and these changes can mostly be because of my increasing age or maturing, not the internet. But that's all I can give you unfortunately.
PS. Going to bed now (almost 5:00am). Fucked up sleep-pattern due to holidays and you guessed it INTERNET! <_<
Jesus healing dying people of incurable diseases, turning stuff into wine and bread, being dead for 3 days and awakening after that (most of these are probably figurative meanings but still). I don't believe these kind of miracles because I can't comprehend it (like you said), since it doesn't happen in our world.
Jesus dying and coming back three days later to go to heaven is the basis of Christianity. How are you a Christian if you don't believing in that?
That I can't answer. Maybe that's my next big question I'll have to answer to finally sway and keep my mind at whichever end...
You can still follow the teachings of Christ even if you don't believe all of what is in the bible or take it all literally. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise Jaundice.
I actually live and come from Greece. The gay community here is a lot less outspoken than it should, so if you have info about protests here they would indeed be of use, although I do doubt it hehe.
I don't usually say this, but I think you get a pass then. I believe the good people of Greece have bigger problems on their hands.
I've actually read quite a bit, about how your founding fathers were a LOT less into religion than they are made out to be. Something about Franklin, lighthouses and churches that I really can't seem to recollect at this late an hour
It is very amusing. I'm glad you're aware of what I was alluding to.
I know this is a poor argument since I've given NO FACTS WHICH PEOPLE WANT and these changes can mostly be because of my increasing age or maturing, not the internet. But that's all I can give you unfortunately.
Well it appears you've got a bit of thinking to do. I'll leave you to that. Please do participate in my ancient thread if you like.
You can still follow the teachings of Christ even if you don't believe all of what is in the bible or take it all literally. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise Jaundice.
Reminds me of Thomas Jeffersons' bible, in which he removed all reference to divinity. But, in all seriousness, I think there are some virtuous words to be read in the New Testament. Having said that, those same teachings can be found in many cultures and from many other sources. The "golden rule," (to use the most prolific example) was not invented by the Christian religion, nor the Jews. Cooperation and reciprocity are hard coded into our social-ape genetics.
I guess my point is, you can easily be a virtuous person without using Christ as an example.
What do you mean Americans didn't invent electricty? We learned in school Ben Franklin shit out the first lightning bolt right after Jesus flew down on a red, white, and blue eagle to deliver the Constitution to God's favorite country?
- Some random guy in a youtube argument.
Probably one of the funniest things I have read in a while.
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sexual reference like helping jack off the horse?
mmm cheese
I took this photo actually!
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
did you took it with a potato?
Contrary to popular belief, yes. :>
Oh, yeah, I'm talking about America.
Our politics is shit, people are too immature with their opinions, people abuse their rights to hurt others, people are too stubborn to accept that some things are inevitable (such as the movement to clean energy) and will offer their bullshit arguments and leave it at that.
We, as a collective people, have gotten too comfortable with an "us vs. them" mentality. That's why nothing gets done in this fucking place. You can't stop progress and if that means that we will see an ultimate divide and our two most conflicting ideologies come to a head, then I would love to move my friends and family somewhere far away such as to not get them involved in the implosion.
The only thing I can appreciate about this place anymore is the nature and whiskey distilleries.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Dealing with reality can be handled by two methods:
1. Confronting it rationally
2. Ignoring rationality by self-deception
Whether that self-deception is soaking every last tissue in one's body with Tennessee's finest or continuously ignoring day-to-day reality to insist that mythological laws mean more than empirical facts, the resulting intellectual and emotional ineptitude is the same.
But I can understand the ambivalence of most hetero-normative individuals. You've got little to gain by comparison.
I've participated in rallies and various events in the Atlanta area every month for the last twenty years. If you'd like some information on where a local protest is happening I would be happy to oblige you. I'm well connected and I assure you the struggle is ongoing and not sporadic.
Religion isn't a race or ethnicity, but I do understand what you mean. Unfortunately this line of reasoning doesn't hold water. Being irrational in a religious manner is always harmful to the community. At the very least it is divisive, at the worst it is down-right hateful. An apology for those who simply want to believe in the sky spirit allows the "all faggots belong in hell and I'm going to send them there," crowd a free pass to spew their filth in the public square and legislate it into state and local laws.
Religion re-entered government around the time the red scare was happening. Successive presidents used Christianity to differentiate the American global empire from the USSR's own quest for influence. Read about when "god," made it onto our currency, into our pledge, etc. You'll be amused at just how recent these changes everyone thinks the founders cared about were.
I took it with a side of Cow!
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I should've guessed it, how else you would get such a good definition 2000 years ago
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Wise ElderHonestly though I'd rather have the regular ole two boob combo. Where would I rest my head with three? I'd just have to lay right on top of a boob which would probably be uncomfortable.
You can't motorboat to it's full potential either, there would be one lonely side of cleavage.
Evolution competes with one facet of religion. On that note, EVERYTHING can be viewed as competing with a facet of religion.
Hell, the Empire State Building competes with Christianity!
Neither. Just new data. The data may point towards religion, or away, or it may have nothing to do with religion, new data is just new data and its always awesome to get new data.
Jesus dying and coming back three days later to go to heaven is the basis of Christianity. How are you a Christian if you don't believing in that?
(Well, Jesus dying and Adam and Eve fucking shit up.)
I could say something here, but I'd probably get in trouble.
Okay. Lets say we teach two points. One is, obviously, Science/Facts/Truth. Then we have religion. Which religion? The Jewish view that God hates everybody but the Jews? The Christian view that you are shit unless you accept Jesus? The Muslim view that everybody is fucking shit up and only Muhammed has it right? The Wiccan view in the Maiden, Mother, and Crone? The Hindu view that you are going to die and become a rat? The Scientologist view that money=salvation? (That's also the catholic view, but that's another story.)
How do you decide which view to teach beside Science/Facts/Truth?
I hear Christians throw this argument but whenever I suggest bringing in a High Priestess to perform a spell of blessings, they get all freaked out...
To summarize, keep faiths in their respective sections and not in my Physics/Biology/Chemistry/Health/Astronomy/History classes.
Kinky.
Our politics are shit because our population is ignorant as shit. Go out and ask anybody to name the second element in the Periodic table. They will stare at you like deer in headlights.
As for opinions, some refuse to express them and others express them too much.
Many like a Jack 'n' Coke, I like a Jack 'n' Pepsi.
I'm weird like that.
I like a lot of what you say. (I also tried to make it that white-yellow color that is the default of the site, but I think I failed... Haven't checked before posting though, so...if it worked then it was all part of the plan. Totally.)
I do disagree with the definition of Science though.
I tend to view Science in a manner that Carl Sagan Viewed it.
“Science is more than a body of knowledge, it’s a way of thinking. A way of skeptically interrogating the universe with a fine understanding of human fallibility. If we are not able to ask skeptical questions, to interrogate those who tell us that something is true, to be skeptical of those in authority, then we’re up for grabs for the next charlatan, political or religious, who comes ambling along.”
I will never understand a Christian Homosexual. Especially an African American Christian Homosexual.
It's like they hate themselves...
Granted, I was a bisexual and a Christian for a long time, so... >.>
Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
-Benjamin Franklin.
(Fuck Thomas Edison. Just had to say that.)
Fail Photoshop is Fail.
You're gonna be disappointed cause I don't have the answer. I know I said that through the internet, with it's convincing arguments, swayed my mind to both ends, but that paragraph was kinda written in the spur of the moment (I've never argue or even talk about religion/evolution/creationism with people)...
I apologize in advance for my storytelling. I really don't know how to tackle these arguments...maybe I should just leave it at this post, cause I know very little about it and can only truly speak through personal experiences...(maybe this can be my first post in your necro religion thread
As a kid (till like 12-13 years old) me and my bros went to church each Sunday with my mother. Through high school I hardly went to church. The reason for it wasn't in any way religious (still isn't, I'm just lazy and see no point in it). Religion didn't bother me then and I didn't think about it at all (in the sense that I didn't question Christianity and/or whether God existed; my mind was just like meh).
You'll be happy to know this is finally where the internet come into play! (unfortunately still not what you're looking for) I had very little interest on what was going on on the internet through high school, but now in University with 24 hour internet I started spending sooooooooooo much time on it. And eventually you'll come across religious articles/threads or just random quotes (there's nothing specific to give unfortunately). This is then the first time I really started to think about religion after having a meh mind in high school. Our current argument is a first for me in fact.
So basically: toddler (no internet; full blown Christian [Catholic pun intended?], actually just a normal Christian) - teenage (partly internet; meh Christian) - young adult (full blown internet; open minded Christian questioning his faith).
So there wasn't really any sort of convincing to not put me in doubt, just that it's how I was at a younger age. Now that I reread my previous post it differs quite a lot...
I know this is a poor argument since I've given NO FACTS WHICH PEOPLE WANT and these changes can mostly be because of my increasing age or maturing, not the internet. But that's all I can give you unfortunately.
PS. Going to bed now (almost 5:00am). Fucked up sleep-pattern due to holidays and you guessed it INTERNET! <_<
That I can't answer. Maybe that's my next big question I'll have to answer to finally sway and keep my mind at whichever end...
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Wise ElderSiaynoq's Playthroughs
I don't usually say this, but I think you get a pass then. I believe the good people of Greece have bigger problems on their hands.
It is very amusing. I'm glad you're aware of what I was alluding to.
Well it appears you've got a bit of thinking to do. I'll leave you to that. Please do participate in my ancient thread if you like.
Reminds me of Thomas Jeffersons' bible, in which he removed all reference to divinity. But, in all seriousness, I think there are some virtuous words to be read in the New Testament. Having said that, those same teachings can be found in many cultures and from many other sources. The "golden rule," (to use the most prolific example) was not invented by the Christian religion, nor the Jews. Cooperation and reciprocity are hard coded into our social-ape genetics.
I guess my point is, you can easily be a virtuous person without using Christ as an example.
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Wise ElderProbably one of the funniest things I have read in a while.