I have another Science vs. Religion debate coming up, so I am posting this on multiple forums for information on why people turn to a deity for explanations. The new creationist argument against science is that because the chance of life appearing on Earth as it is today is SO SLIM (and trust me, it is), there must be a Higher Power or God that controls it. Now I want to see how true this argument is among people. Please answer the poll as truthfully and honestly as you can, and present why you think that way in a post. Also if you have a different opinion, please post that as well.
No trolling or flaming. Please don't attack other people's beliefs. This isn't the Religion vs. Science thread.
THE POLL OPTIONS CLARIFIED!!!!
Yes, he influenced everything - This means that in the creation of life, God controlled every aspect of it. This could be young-earth Creationism, Intelligent Design, etc. This can also mean that even if you believe that in evolution, God controlled life as it evolved, as it developed, and the creation of life.
Yes, he influenced some of it - This means that God only controlled parts of the development of life. Whether it is the creation of life only or just sparks that led to humans, this is the "maybe" option.
No, he influenced none of it - God had no influence. Pretty self explanatory. This option also can mean that you don't believe in a God, but please specify that.
BTW, I'M AN ATHEIST. So can you people stop PMing me saying that I'm preaching?
I have another Science vs. Religion debate coming up, so I am posting this on multiple forums for information on why people turn to a deity for explanations. The new creationist argument against science is that because the chance of life appearing on Earth as it is today is SO SLIM (and trust me, it is)
I'm going to have to stop you right there. There are currently NASA operations going on looking for water on Europa, one of Jupiter's moons. The moon is covered in ice, but the gravitational forces of Jupiter cause the ice, and the moon itself, to flex, which could create enough heat to melt the innermost layers of the ice. There was also a recent discovery of a planet that meets the 'Goldilocks requirement' for being a potential life-harboring planet. I'm not saying that either of these spots have life, but I'm just pointing out that we're only very recently building satellites and other tools that could allow us to identify worlds that have water, and potentially life on them, so we really have no idea how common things like water, or any of the other building blocks of life, are on other planets, but we will in the nearish future. Now, all these searches could eventually be fruitless, but if even a tiny bit of bacteria, or even just water, is found on these planets it could point towards life being considerably more common than we currently think.
As for the actual topic, I generally lean towards atheism. The furthest I ever go towards believing in a deity is something like a grand watchmaker, where somebody caused an event like the Big Bang and then let things play out by themselves.
What jackzor said. there are BILLIONS of other planets out there and we barely have the technology to truly try to explore outside our own galaxy, We will have the technology one day but we don't have it right now. Humans try to find answers to things that we don't comprehend or understand and then try to cling onto something so we know when we die will be alright and in a better place thus giving birth to a mystical all knowing being "GOD" that guarantees us an after life. I'm a man of science and right now we don't have a definite answer as to how we got here or how we came to be, but that science will keep advancing and hopefully one day will find the answer.
A note, as a geologist and paleontologist I can tell you that the reason that life doesn't spontaneously manifest in the world today is because the conditions are no longer appropriate. There are very limited areas in which the conditions are close, but not quite right and these areas are very small. When life first appeared The environment was such that nearly if not all extant life would not be able to survive. There were lots of corrosive and acidic chemicals in the water and in the air. The landmasses were small and typically volcanic as they were still in the process of forming. Eventually the life that was formed consumed the chemicals and broke them down for energy. After that some started to release oxygen as a by product. This was a toxic substance to most life until it began to develop ways of dealing with it.
That's the quick and dirty about the origins of life as far as we know. So the reason it doesn't happen today, again, is because the conditions are inappropriate. This however has very little to do with the poll because this could be at the hand of some 'higher power' as you put it and does not conflict with any religions (except were they are taken literally: such as a biblical 'day' is 24 hrs as opposed to a first period of time, which is how its represented in the original language anyway.)
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
I voted other because I don't believe in creationism so...
However, and this is in all honesty, I sometimes think when I see a water drop or I smash a small morsel, if I could have just crushed an entire universe. As in, there was a whole universe that existed in that drop of water where planets and energy existed and by wiping it off of my shirt, I jst destroyed that whole universe.
And then I wonder if our universe exists in some small molecule in some other being's world.and that that being will just wipe us off one of these days.
Keep in mind that time is all relative and that the smaller the area, the quicker time passes by so a billion years in our lives can be seconds in someone else if they are on a grander scale.
But I digress...
Slim chance FTW.
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Religion is something created by mankind to trick other men/women that good deeds will reward itself and evil behavior will punish you. To quote Altaïr from Assassin's Creed: "But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told."
It's a smart idea in the foundation to fool people into believing that acting nice towards another will grant a good afterlife, salvation from the circle of reincarnation et cetera. It's an easy way to get a better community.
I don't believe in karma but I do believe your environment will react if you behave bad, that's just natural.
And to me life just proves from time to time that there is no greater power since good people get punished while evil get away, for example my always kind grandmother died yesterday at age ~70 while my selfish, greedy great grandmother at age ~98 who has smoked since she was 18 still lives. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.
Edit: Just to clarify I'm not bashing people who believe in the supernatural creation, only that someone creating humans out of nothing is only something made up by normal humans to fool people.
I, if you haven't noticed from my text believe in science when it comes to things like this.
As others have pointed out, I think your voting options are flawed from the start. How can you have a "No" and a "Yes" option both followed by "he influenced some of it". That makes no sense. How can I not believe in a high power, but still believe that he influenced anything? Why is there no, "No, there is no higher power" option?
In terms of religious beliefs, I personally go for 'Agnostic Atheism'. Essentially, while I do not believe in a God or higher power, I do not deny the possibility that one exists. I think that human perception is simply too limited to every truly know whether something higher exists. If we could, that would undermine the very concept of a higher power.
You also specify "life on earth as it is today". This obviously makes the odds much much much lower than simply asking about life in general appearing. Life as it is today is the result of millions and millions (if not billions, seeing as how the numbers are a little fuzzy that far back) of years of evolution. With every second of existence, the probability of anything being the way it is goes down. Even so, I can't see how there's any evidence of life as it is today being the result of some higher power. Random mutations combine with favourable conditions and some dumb luck (evolution in a nutshell) to create life as it is today.
With that in mind, I find that science - which attempts to provide evidence and explanations for universal phenomena based on what we can perceive - makes the most the sense. According to (most) scientists and scholars, the probability of life forming here (and elsewhere in the universe) is actually fairly high. It's true that the odds are not at a particularly high ratio, but even taking that into consideration, the sheer volume of other solar systems that exist make it near impossible for me to believe that life does not exist out there somewhere other than here (even if it is very unlike life on earth).
Occam's Razor would suggest that the simplest answer - in this case, the idea that stuff just happened the way it did for no reason - is often the correct one. When it comes to proving the existence of any type of God being, I am going to require direct evidence. If God himself comes down and speaks to me or if I die and go to heaven, that's about it.
Sorry let me clarify it. I meant that the higher power or God controlled all of the development of life, part of it, or none of it. Does that make sense?
using chances to prove anything doesn't work with my way of thinking. I'm all for concepts.
The chance of me poking someone in the eye right now has a chance? i only think of things as a method, and having my mind trigger to cause this was through influence and genetic such. things of chance can have next to none or be inevitable and still happen or never happen. Chance is a simplification of finding results in a method of happenings we could otherwise spend forever trying to predict.
There is no God, religion is the result of man's fear that life has no larger purpose, and death is the end. I've read 2 books by Ayn Rand, who I feel has the right idea.
Since any video over 5 minutes rarely get watched, here's some short clips from different interviews of Any Rand.
I just want to say, I respect everyone's view on religion, I ask you do the same for me. I'm always willing to have a friendly debate though~
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
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No trolling or flaming. Please don't attack other people's beliefs. This isn't the Religion vs. Science thread.
THE POLL OPTIONS CLARIFIED!!!!
Yes, he influenced everything - This means that in the creation of life, God controlled every aspect of it. This could be young-earth Creationism, Intelligent Design, etc. This can also mean that even if you believe that in evolution, God controlled life as it evolved, as it developed, and the creation of life.
Yes, he influenced some of it - This means that God only controlled parts of the development of life. Whether it is the creation of life only or just sparks that led to humans, this is the "maybe" option.
No, he influenced none of it - God had no influence. Pretty self explanatory. This option also can mean that you don't believe in a God, but please specify that.
BTW, I'M AN ATHEIST. So can you people stop PMing me saying that I'm preaching?
As for the actual topic, I generally lean towards atheism. The furthest I ever go towards believing in a deity is something like a grand watchmaker, where somebody caused an event like the Big Bang and then let things play out by themselves.
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That's the quick and dirty about the origins of life as far as we know. So the reason it doesn't happen today, again, is because the conditions are inappropriate. This however has very little to do with the poll because this could be at the hand of some 'higher power' as you put it and does not conflict with any religions (except were they are taken literally: such as a biblical 'day' is 24 hrs as opposed to a first period of time, which is how its represented in the original language anyway.)
That's what "Other" is for. Things that don't fit the other categories.
However, and this is in all honesty, I sometimes think when I see a water drop or I smash a small morsel, if I could have just crushed an entire universe. As in, there was a whole universe that existed in that drop of water where planets and energy existed and by wiping it off of my shirt, I jst destroyed that whole universe.
And then I wonder if our universe exists in some small molecule in some other being's world.and that that being will just wipe us off one of these days.
Keep in mind that time is all relative and that the smaller the area, the quicker time passes by so a billion years in our lives can be seconds in someone else if they are on a grander scale.
But I digress...
Slim chance FTW.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
It's a smart idea in the foundation to fool people into believing that acting nice towards another will grant a good afterlife, salvation from the circle of reincarnation et cetera. It's an easy way to get a better community.
I don't believe in karma but I do believe your environment will react if you behave bad, that's just natural.
And to me life just proves from time to time that there is no greater power since good people get punished while evil get away, for example my always kind grandmother died yesterday at age ~70 while my selfish, greedy great grandmother at age ~98 who has smoked since she was 18 still lives. If that's not proof enough I don't know what is.
Edit: Just to clarify I'm not bashing people who believe in the supernatural creation, only that someone creating humans out of nothing is only something made up by normal humans to fool people.
I, if you haven't noticed from my text believe in science when it comes to things like this.
Well all the poll's option are referring to "he" as in god, but that's a possible theory you have still!
In terms of religious beliefs, I personally go for 'Agnostic Atheism'. Essentially, while I do not believe in a God or higher power, I do not deny the possibility that one exists. I think that human perception is simply too limited to every truly know whether something higher exists. If we could, that would undermine the very concept of a higher power.
You also specify "life on earth as it is today". This obviously makes the odds much much much lower than simply asking about life in general appearing. Life as it is today is the result of millions and millions (if not billions, seeing as how the numbers are a little fuzzy that far back) of years of evolution. With every second of existence, the probability of anything being the way it is goes down. Even so, I can't see how there's any evidence of life as it is today being the result of some higher power. Random mutations combine with favourable conditions and some dumb luck (evolution in a nutshell) to create life as it is today.
With that in mind, I find that science - which attempts to provide evidence and explanations for universal phenomena based on what we can perceive - makes the most the sense. According to (most) scientists and scholars, the probability of life forming here (and elsewhere in the universe) is actually fairly high. It's true that the odds are not at a particularly high ratio, but even taking that into consideration, the sheer volume of other solar systems that exist make it near impossible for me to believe that life does not exist out there somewhere other than here (even if it is very unlike life on earth).
Occam's Razor would suggest that the simplest answer - in this case, the idea that stuff just happened the way it did for no reason - is often the correct one. When it comes to proving the existence of any type of God being, I am going to require direct evidence. If God himself comes down and speaks to me or if I die and go to heaven, that's about it.
Yeah I'll clarify the poll options.
The chance of me poking someone in the eye right now has a chance? i only think of things as a method, and having my mind trigger to cause this was through influence and genetic such. things of chance can have next to none or be inevitable and still happen or never happen. Chance is a simplification of finding results in a method of happenings we could otherwise spend forever trying to predict.
There is no God, religion is the result of man's fear that life has no larger purpose, and death is the end. I've read 2 books by Ayn Rand, who I feel has the right idea.
Since any video over 5 minutes rarely get watched, here's some short clips from different interviews of Any Rand.
I just want to say, I respect everyone's view on religion, I ask you do the same for me. I'm always willing to have a friendly debate though~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmac2fs5HQ&feature=related