Welcome to the 2010 FIFA World Cup, taking place in South Africa. This is "The World Cup Controversy" thread. I just changed the name because we weren't talking about controversies anymore.
Discuss everything about the World Cup here, including controversies, games, players, countries, soccer in general, etc. Please keep all attacks on countries out of here please, because even if are just trying just to criticize the teams, we are talking about people who are really big patriots and soccer fans so it can very easily lead to a huge argument.
So let me start things off with this little piece (written by me):
Controversy is now hitting the World Cup after the US was denied a victory over Slovenia after they made a furious rally to get back into the game. Down 2-0 at the half, the US evened the score at 2-2 in the 82nd minute. With the Slovenian defense crumpling fast, 3 minutes later, the Americans seemed to take the game winning goal and were celebrating wildly. Yet a whistle that was barely heard over the horns called for a foul against the Americans which disallowed the goal. Automatically, replays were shown to see what happened during the play and it was quite obvious that nothing happened. In the end, the score ended in a 2-2 tie, which even though is better than a loss and keep them in the tournament, this could prove costly in the American's chance of advancing.
However, I believe this isn't a referee controversy. I personally side with the referee because with the speed of soccer right now, one official cannot control the pace and is bound to make mistakes. I personally believe that FIFA is responsible, the big corporation that pretty much owns soccer. FIFA has made it clear that they don't want to add a replay system to aid the refs or even allow the refs to look at the telebeams to make the correct call. The game of soccer is ruined by FIFA's unwanting to make the game easier to officiate for referees.
One example of this is the controversial call made in the World Cup Qualifiers that eliminated Ireland. Henry for France made a handball that then helped the French elminate Ireland from the World Cup, who needed the win and were leading 1-0 prior to that. See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siJQZs2Sbho
The video for the disallowed American goal will be up later, as it's a little too early for anyone to put it up.
Shit happens, really. FIFA sucks, too. The ref decisions in a LOT of games has been shitty so far. Another thing which I believe is true, is that cheating is bound to occur. Nobody would watch a final between Algeria and Slovenia, so they can't qualify such countries at the expense of others like Spain, Germany, England, or Italy, no matter how shitty those teams are playing, y'know what I'm sayin' ?
It feels like a smack in the face twice over for me. Being Irish and in the States I've seen twice now shit ref calls. They [FIFA] need something, desperately, because calls like these shouldn't decide games. The US / Slovenia game was rife with bad / questionable / late calls but calling off that goal for nothing is just downright depressing. And to see the ref's priory history with controversy puts the icing on it. Tis a sad day, although I'm still pleasantly happy with the US' situation. Beat Algeria and we're good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Join the Irish Mob. We like almost everybody. Read Pants are Good. It's funny. You'll like it.
Also read Wintendo, as DINGBANG is attempting to play through 764 SNES games in a back catalog.
If you hear FIFA talk about this reffing, they always seem reluctant to change anything because they want to keep soccer "pure and free". The only problem with this is that refs will miss things that the ENTIRE WORLD sees except for the refs. In general, the referees know the least out of everyone. And the telebeam thing is true too. Referees are not allowed to look at replays displayed on the stadium monitors to make a decision (in 2006, the side ref did that to give Zidane a red card though after the head butt). I think a replay system is desperately needed. I would rather watch the game be 10 minutes longer but be 100% accurate than to have stuff like today happen and steal games from countries.
yeah really bad calls in a few recent games. on one hand you cant access replays because of the time it takes to get a view at a certain play, and no one can say what call/play demands a review and which dont; football has been played without replays for ages and theres always controversy, most people accept that as part of the game. you just cant break up a play for 2 minutes just to see if he got the call right, not to mention what that would do to the refs confidence for the game.
Perhaps they take a cue from american football where the coaches get a challenge. and say that they can only use those challenges during extra time or the closing minutes where the pace increases and a call can turn a game (such as todays).
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Not exactly about the referees, but still what I think is one of the biggest FIFA mistakes.
Everyone is talking about how Spain won every game of the Playoffs, but did you see what countries did it play against? Let me enlighten you: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Turkey, Belgium, Estonia and Armenia. I mean, god forbid that any 2 big countries are in the same group together. Meanwhile, for every African team that qualified, 15 were left out. I mean, what is that about?
I think it should be done like in South America, pit every country against every other within the continent. I mean, if the top contries are really that good, they should have no problem qualifying. Maybe even worldwide, but that would be a hell to organize.
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
I second that, I live in Brazil, and have seem in more than one occasion my team being ripped off, thats the way it is. Live with it.
But, i can imagine the uproar in the US, since NFL, NBA and such, all have a replay system.
Speaking of which, kind of weird no one made a thread about the nba finals.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
You are saying that a system in which a player can abuse the human error of the referees. It's people like you who I consider fanatics with this entire "conserve the tradition of the sport". FIFA has this view and they will ruin the sport as long as they have this. You support a system in which mistakes are okay to make at a international level when it comes to refereeing. For this reason is why soccer lost its popularity.
I am all the way with Marsy on this one and I am a longtime football fan. I mean come on- in a game you get replays of all actions almost instantly and that during live TV too. I am not asking that replays to be used for every little tackle in the game but for game-changing decisions like player booking or goal calls, replays SHOULD be used. There is no real excuse for not making that transition towards a better and fairer game other than fear/reluctance of change. And that's frankly lame.
And Meph, a lot of the big teams have gone down early in the past world-cups and Spain has been screwed for its first match already. France looks unlikely to qualify. Germany's defeat in their 2nd match has put them in an uncomfortable place and England doesn't look much better with 2 draws under their belt.
My point being that no amount of cheating (or ref favoring) will get the big teams through. Shitty refs occur all throughout the games. But it becomes much more prominent when a 'big' team is involved and a lot of people will complain about it.
2002 world cup had S.Korea and Senegal playing for third place. And a shitty team like Greece won the 2004 euro cup. Both proof of what I am saying.
Football is a game where the chances for 'underdogs' to win and progress is very much real- whereby all the enthusiasm, hope and hunger for playing and winning comes.
And the 'big' teams are known as such for 2 main reasons really- beautiful game and consistency. They didn't make their reputation out of thin air. They've played attacking football that has amazed and entertained millions(Argentina is doing that currently) and they are justly known as the strong teams.
Italy also is very much well-known but more for their consistency- they play what I call garbage football- what I mean by that is that the ONLY time I actually fell asleep when watching a team play is Italy. They focus too much of defense and their matches turn in to a stale mate until one is able to pull a sucker punch and win. But hey it works for them. I just hope not too many teams adopt this strategy.
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
You are saying that a system in which a player can abuse the human error of the referees. It's people like you who I consider fanatics with this entire "conserve the tradition of the sport". FIFA has this view and they will ruin the sport as long as they have this. You support a system in which mistakes are okay to make at a international level when it comes to refereeing. For this reason is why soccer lost its popularity.
Huhhh, what?! Soccer losing/lost popularity?!
Last i checked it was getting big in the US, so big that Mark Belling just had to address it.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
You are saying that a system in which a player can abuse the human error of the referees. It's people like you who I consider fanatics with this entire "conserve the tradition of the sport". FIFA has this view and they will ruin the sport as long as they have this. You support a system in which mistakes are okay to make at a international level when it comes to refereeing. For this reason is why soccer lost its popularity.
First of all, im no fanatic lol... anyway dude, thats how soccer is. Im not saying that they should not change anything about it, but if they do it will indeed lose some of its originality and uniqueness.
Thats how soccer is, you fake a foul, you cheat and score with your hand, you tackle aggresivly when the ref is not looking.
If they made it so that they look at replays and judge by that, then a 90 minutes game would take 120 minutes.
Now, im not saying that there is nothing wrong with how the system works right now... But "fixing" it is not an easy matter. Yes there are people who cae about tradition and how football / soccer is. Its an important sport and it is not losing its popularity by any means.
Anyway dude i understand where you are coming from, but im gona say it again. That is just how soccer / football is.
Jamoose, noooooooo.... You are one of my favorite members (seriously) in the place man, but I would have to kill you for taking such a stance. Nothing personal mate. It's to preserve world peace.
Anyway guys football is NOT - diving to get a penalty
- handling the ball and getting away with it
- faking an injury to get your opponent booked
Football is a sublime game hailing the strength of team spirit without shadowing great individual performances. Skills, determination and motivation constitute the core of the game and that will always be so.
Now watch this gif
Trust me, we need this replays to assist the refs, if only to keep the beauty of the game.
But seriously, i just had a discussion about this issue with my dad and in the end we agreed that replays should be used to help the ref's judgement but only in certain cases like a penalty shot, a red card and a goal.
Fouls and such should still be judged by the ref's eyes only to prevent what i said earlier which was that a game would take longer to finish and it would just be frustraiting.
But seriously, i just had a discussion about this issue with my dad and in the end we agreed that replays should be used to help the ref's judgement but only in certain cases like a penalty shot, a red card and a goal.
Fouls and such should still be judged by the ref's eyes only to prevent what i said earlier which was that a game would take longer to finish and it would just be frustraiting.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on the replay things. If say it's a red card situation or a goal like the USA had, then replay should not only be optional, it should be required. Normal fouls would just be the judgement of the referee.
Some other ways I would change soccer so it wouldn't be as boring as it is today (meaning that most games end in 0-0 or 1-1 if we're lucky).
- Unlimited substitutions - I mean really? 3? for 90 minutes? Most players jog around because they get exhausted. This would add more speed to the game and quickness.
- Make it 10 v 10 - If you didn't know it, right now soccer is 11 v 11 (10 players plus goalie). 10 on 10 would add more space onto the already crowded field and would allow for more scoring, more intensity, and more running.
And to also have a fifth referee in a replay studio where the main referee could get contact with to finalize controversial calls.
Thats just how football / soccer is. You rely on the eyes of the ref. Its a part of the game to fake fouls and stuff. Even if you get caught later on in the replay. There is no turning back once a ref decided something.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
You are saying that a system in which a player can abuse the human error of the referees. It's people like you who I consider fanatics with this entire "conserve the tradition of the sport". FIFA has this view and they will ruin the sport as long as they have this. You support a system in which mistakes are okay to make at a international level when it comes to refereeing. For this reason is why soccer lost its popularity.
i dunno if you watched the NBA finals, but fisher, kobe, pp, and ray allen might as well been fish out of water the way they flopped and got calls. every sport that has refs abuse that human error, the only difference is that in soccer you get less chances to create wins so every move is exaggerated and scrutinized. in the NBA you cant criticise the refs either otherwise its a fine. the NBA can rescind technical and flagrant fouls just like a countries FA and FIFA can as well for red cards, but they cannot turn a blown call and rarely admit to blown calls in the first place.
trust me, you watch the game to watch the players and teams, not to watch the refs; if you want play stopped every few minutes to review plays and nitpick fouls then your going to be annoyed out of your minds.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on the replay things. If say it's a red card situation or a goal like the USA had, then replay should not only be optional, it should be required. Normal fouls would just be the judgement of the referee.
Some other ways I would change soccer so it wouldn't be as boring as it is today (meaning that most games end in 0-0 or 1-1 if we're lucky).
- Unlimited substitutions - I mean really? 3? for 90 minutes? Most players jog around because they get exhausted. This would add more speed to the game and quickness.
- Make it 10 v 10 - If you didn't know it, right now soccer is 11 v 11 (10 players plus goalie). 10 on 10 would add more space onto the already crowded field and would allow for more scoring, more intensity, and more running.
And to also have a fifth referee in a replay studio where the main referee could get contact with to finalize controversial calls.
you just dont appreciate soccer for what it is, its not about the scoreline or dazzling play that makes it a great sport to watch, its every little move that non traditional fans fail to see that makes it great, and allegiances and history. it cant be like basketball or football when big plays are happening all the time.
the rules in place now are fine, i do agree that there needs to be 2 more line refs, one behind each goal and one official timekeeper.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
This traditional nonsense really pisses me off sometimes. Sometimes, you have to move into the common era and accept that playing soccer as if it was the fucking 40s might not work out so well. Get into the right time period. Saying that you're preserving the tradition of the sport by watching the ball move around midfield and when they shoot its usually so off that it has a higher chance to slam a kid in the 19th row in the face is nonsense. Yeah that's great tradition. Let's also play tennis with wooden rackets again. Or still play basketball with a basket with no bottom and with no replay. Let's actually have soccer be 100 vs 100 because that how the game started right? 100 on 100 in England. Let's do that instead.
its worked out well enough to be the worlds sport.
That's because it's soccer. No matter how fucked up it is, you have countries like Brazil and continents like Europe who devote their lives to it. Most Europeans agree with a replay system after the entire Ireland Hand Ball fiasco, but they couldn't get enough under it. But now, FIFA pissed off America, which is exactly what needs to happen with this situation. America is the only country who make a big deal enough about it because if America doesn't qualify because of that call, FIFA will be owned up its ass.
I fell sorry for you, really. America is not special, soccer doesn't need you to be the most popular sport in the planet. And no, FIFA won't do jack shit about it, and you know why? Because it's AMERICA.
If it happened to Argentina, Brazil, Germany, or other country with tradition in the game, then MAYBE, just, MAYBE, something could happen (slim chances tho), other than that, nobody cares.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
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Discuss everything about the World Cup here, including controversies, games, players, countries, soccer in general, etc. Please keep all attacks on countries out of here please, because even if are just trying just to criticize the teams, we are talking about people who are really big patriots and soccer fans so it can very easily lead to a huge argument.
So let me start things off with this little piece (written by me):
Controversy is now hitting the World Cup after the US was denied a victory over Slovenia after they made a furious rally to get back into the game. Down 2-0 at the half, the US evened the score at 2-2 in the 82nd minute. With the Slovenian defense crumpling fast, 3 minutes later, the Americans seemed to take the game winning goal and were celebrating wildly. Yet a whistle that was barely heard over the horns called for a foul against the Americans which disallowed the goal. Automatically, replays were shown to see what happened during the play and it was quite obvious that nothing happened. In the end, the score ended in a 2-2 tie, which even though is better than a loss and keep them in the tournament, this could prove costly in the American's chance of advancing.
However, I believe this isn't a referee controversy. I personally side with the referee because with the speed of soccer right now, one official cannot control the pace and is bound to make mistakes. I personally believe that FIFA is responsible, the big corporation that pretty much owns soccer. FIFA has made it clear that they don't want to add a replay system to aid the refs or even allow the refs to look at the telebeams to make the correct call. The game of soccer is ruined by FIFA's unwanting to make the game easier to officiate for referees.
One example of this is the controversial call made in the World Cup Qualifiers that eliminated Ireland. Henry for France made a handball that then helped the French elminate Ireland from the World Cup, who needed the win and were leading 1-0 prior to that. See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siJQZs2Sbho
The video for the disallowed American goal will be up later, as it's a little too early for anyone to put it up.
So what do you all think about this?
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Join the Irish Mob. We like almost everybody. Read Pants are Good. It's funny. You'll like it.
Also read Wintendo, as DINGBANG is attempting to play through 764 SNES games in a back catalog.
Perhaps they take a cue from american football where the coaches get a challenge. and say that they can only use those challenges during extra time or the closing minutes where the pace increases and a call can turn a game (such as todays).
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Everyone is talking about how Spain won every game of the Playoffs, but did you see what countries did it play against? Let me enlighten you: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Turkey, Belgium, Estonia and Armenia. I mean, god forbid that any 2 big countries are in the same group together. Meanwhile, for every African team that qualified, 15 were left out. I mean, what is that about?
I think it should be done like in South America, pit every country against every other within the continent. I mean, if the top contries are really that good, they should have no problem qualifying. Maybe even worldwide, but that would be a hell to organize.
Get over it.
Its not like there's a conspiracy against some teams or i dono...
I second that, I live in Brazil, and have seem in more than one occasion my team being ripped off, thats the way it is. Live with it.
But, i can imagine the uproar in the US, since NFL, NBA and such, all have a replay system.
Speaking of which, kind of weird no one made a thread about the nba finals.
You are saying that a system in which a player can abuse the human error of the referees. It's people like you who I consider fanatics with this entire "conserve the tradition of the sport". FIFA has this view and they will ruin the sport as long as they have this. You support a system in which mistakes are okay to make at a international level when it comes to refereeing. For this reason is why soccer lost its popularity.
And Meph, a lot of the big teams have gone down early in the past world-cups and Spain has been screwed for its first match already. France looks unlikely to qualify. Germany's defeat in their 2nd match has put them in an uncomfortable place and England doesn't look much better with 2 draws under their belt.
My point being that no amount of cheating (or ref favoring) will get the big teams through. Shitty refs occur all throughout the games. But it becomes much more prominent when a 'big' team is involved and a lot of people will complain about it.
2002 world cup had S.Korea and Senegal playing for third place. And a shitty team like Greece won the 2004 euro cup. Both proof of what I am saying.
Football is a game where the chances for 'underdogs' to win and progress is very much real- whereby all the enthusiasm, hope and hunger for playing and winning comes.
And the 'big' teams are known as such for 2 main reasons really- beautiful game and consistency. They didn't make their reputation out of thin air. They've played attacking football that has amazed and entertained millions(Argentina is doing that currently) and they are justly known as the strong teams.
Italy also is very much well-known but more for their consistency- they play what I call garbage football- what I mean by that is that the ONLY time I actually fell asleep when watching a team play is Italy. They focus too much of defense and their matches turn in to a stale mate until one is able to pull a sucker punch and win. But hey it works for them. I just hope not too many teams adopt this strategy.
Huhhh, what?! Soccer losing/lost popularity?!
Last i checked it was getting big in the US, so big that Mark Belling just had to address it.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201006110040
On a second thought, i do agree with a video review in just one situation, as to determine if the ball has crossed the goal line, and that's it.
First of all, im no fanatic lol... anyway dude, thats how soccer is. Im not saying that they should not change anything about it, but if they do it will indeed lose some of its originality and uniqueness.
Thats how soccer is, you fake a foul, you cheat and score with your hand, you tackle aggresivly when the ref is not looking.
If they made it so that they look at replays and judge by that, then a 90 minutes game would take 120 minutes.
Now, im not saying that there is nothing wrong with how the system works right now... But "fixing" it is not an easy matter. Yes there are people who cae about tradition and how football / soccer is. Its an important sport and it is not losing its popularity by any means.
Anyway dude i understand where you are coming from, but im gona say it again. That is just how soccer / football is.
Anyway guys football is NOT - diving to get a penalty
- handling the ball and getting away with it
- faking an injury to get your opponent booked
Football is a sublime game hailing the strength of team spirit without shadowing great individual performances. Skills, determination and motivation constitute the core of the game and that will always be so.
Now watch this gif
Trust me, we need this replays to assist the refs, if only to keep the beauty of the game.
But seriously, i just had a discussion about this issue with my dad and in the end we agreed that replays should be used to help the ref's judgement but only in certain cases like a penalty shot, a red card and a goal.
Fouls and such should still be judged by the ref's eyes only to prevent what i said earlier which was that a game would take longer to finish and it would just be frustraiting.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on the replay things. If say it's a red card situation or a goal like the USA had, then replay should not only be optional, it should be required. Normal fouls would just be the judgement of the referee.
Some other ways I would change soccer so it wouldn't be as boring as it is today (meaning that most games end in 0-0 or 1-1 if we're lucky).
- Unlimited substitutions - I mean really? 3? for 90 minutes? Most players jog around because they get exhausted. This would add more speed to the game and quickness.
- Make it 10 v 10 - If you didn't know it, right now soccer is 11 v 11 (10 players plus goalie). 10 on 10 would add more space onto the already crowded field and would allow for more scoring, more intensity, and more running.
And to also have a fifth referee in a replay studio where the main referee could get contact with to finalize controversial calls.
i dunno if you watched the NBA finals, but fisher, kobe, pp, and ray allen might as well been fish out of water the way they flopped and got calls. every sport that has refs abuse that human error, the only difference is that in soccer you get less chances to create wins so every move is exaggerated and scrutinized. in the NBA you cant criticise the refs either otherwise its a fine. the NBA can rescind technical and flagrant fouls just like a countries FA and FIFA can as well for red cards, but they cannot turn a blown call and rarely admit to blown calls in the first place.
trust me, you watch the game to watch the players and teams, not to watch the refs; if you want play stopped every few minutes to review plays and nitpick fouls then your going to be annoyed out of your minds.
you just dont appreciate soccer for what it is, its not about the scoreline or dazzling play that makes it a great sport to watch, its every little move that non traditional fans fail to see that makes it great, and allegiances and history. it cant be like basketball or football when big plays are happening all the time.
the rules in place now are fine, i do agree that there needs to be 2 more line refs, one behind each goal and one official timekeeper.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
That's because it's soccer. No matter how fucked up it is, you have countries like Brazil and continents like Europe who devote their lives to it. Most Europeans agree with a replay system after the entire Ireland Hand Ball fiasco, but they couldn't get enough under it. But now, FIFA pissed off America, which is exactly what needs to happen with this situation. America is the only country who make a big deal enough about it because if America doesn't qualify because of that call, FIFA will be owned up its ass.
If it happened to Argentina, Brazil, Germany, or other country with tradition in the game, then MAYBE, just, MAYBE, something could happen (slim chances tho), other than that, nobody cares.