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Patriotism isn't nationalism. Our forefathers were a victim of the times, it was ok to own slaves and it was ok to womanize back then. Does it make them stupid for conforming to the standards of their day? Their ideas of liberty are what is most important. Have you read the constitution? Despite what you have to say about their practices, they were the leading thinkers of their times.

The point is that you should be proud to be an American, we may not have a peaceful history for it is a history filled with the blood of patriots and tyrants, but we do have one thing, and that is freedom.

Masonic beliefs have been manipulated through the years, it started out as a libertarian group and ended as a satanic cult morphed by the most recent masonic literature.

I'll say what I said to someone else.

I care about people. I love living in such a beautiful place. But I will not let myself be associated with an institution that enslaved a race, brought them over in the bottom of ships and then proceeded to systematically annihilate the indigenous population of the land. Then, once established, proceeded to manipulate governments around the world by assassinating whomever they pleased in places like South America just to suite their own desires. Fuck that.


You tell people you're a proud American, you completely condone and support the cut throat tactics of this blood stained nation.

Every country ever founded has had flaws, but none have our constitution. Egyptians enslaved the jews, are the Egyptians supposed to be ashamed of their heritage because of that? By your standard everyone should hate their heritage. Thats exactly what the new world order wants. They want everyone to give up their sovereignty in the name of coming together under one corrupt government without any elected officials. They hate America, England, France, Spain, Germany, and any other country that gives their people any sort of political power. In effect they love China. So be proud of your country or lose it. If you think you can escape by moving to another country, think again. Cause the ones they don't control are always the first on the chopping block.

I'm not ashamed to be an American; I'm just ashamed to share the same land with fucking ass-hats.

I don't feel even a semblance of patriotism on the 4th of July and I don't think I ever have. Sure, there is probably a diehard patriot out there who dons 18th century attire and sings the Star Spangled Banner every time a mortar goes off. He probably burnishes a bayonet too just for the hell of it.

I could draw comparisons between America and Jonestown, but I won't because Jonestown was a beast of it's own nature. All I will say is that I hope people can actually look at the outside world, do some fucking research, and realize that there are better options than living in America. I'd rather move to the Baltic states and take everyone I ever loved with me.

In the past 100 years, governments have ruined more currencies with their idiotic currency politics than hedge funds have. Devaluation was a common monetary policy tool.

The "problem" with currency trade is that it can not be controlled without strongly hindering people's freedom. Unlike stock trade, trading currency does not require a centralized market. If I had 10,000€ (or any arbitrary amount of euros) and someone else had the equivalent amount of dollars, we could just swap these with no middlemen. Electronic stock trade on the other hand always requires a middleman. Even back at the days of paper stocks, a central authority was required to monitor stock trading to keep it within the confines of law. Currency requires no such special monitoring as forged currency is monitored anyways.

Hedge funds are just risk players. Big ones can make big moves when the situation is right. They can't "ruin a currency" the economic situation favors. They're not that big players. Perhaps most famous example is George Soros' triumph over Bank of England.

I mean sure, today's world is not perfect. We've come a long way from the ultraliberalism of the 19th century. I'd personally prefer a laissez-faire world, but it is not politically feasible.

What I'm most concerned about is those god damn speculators raising the price of my fucking gas. At least limit speculation in terms of large commodities. The little guys get hurt when speculators drive up commodities, it increases the cost of living which is already much too high. Not just in America but everywhere else too.

That's because the banking sector is global. The bailout saved some US banks by paying their debts. Some of those debts naturally were to foreign banks. Just as some foreign banks that received a bailout in Europe had debt to US banks.

So you are saying that it is the American peoples responsibility to pay off bankers whose fraudulent policies bankrupted them? What happened to the free market? This business of too big to fail is dirty and should not be allowed to flourish. The bailout bill had over 1400 pages and was introduced into congress the day before they were to vote on it. They were told separately that if they didn't vote the bill through there would be martial law in America. What kind of bullshit is that? People need to get angry when this sort of shit happens. I mean we are supposed to have a "laissez-faire" market, that is one of the founding principles of this country. It just makes me sick every time I think about it.

I don't feel even a semblance of patriotism on the 4th of July and I don't think I ever have. Sure, there is probably a diehard patriot out there who dons 18th century attire and sings the Star Spangled Banner every time a mortar goes off. He probably burnishes a bayonet too just for the hell of it.

Patriot is derived from patriota meaning countrymen. It means having loyalty to ones people. If you care about your people then it is your duty to make sure they are free of tyranny by doing research, making informed votes, and protesting what you see as a breach of the constitution. If people dont do this they are bound to be castrated, pushed around, and eventually herded into deat.. I mean FEMA camps .

Quote from Daemaro

Quote from Murderface

and eventually herded into deat.. I mean FEMA camps .

Oh you mean those nice "community centers" with play grounds for children, and barbed wire and wardens? I can't wait.

It'll be so wonderful not having to do anything but watch television all day eat GMO foods and drink the lithium and fluoride tap water. I don't even have to burden my family when I die because they have a nice plastic casket all lined up for me. I hope they have more mercury infused vaccines so I don't get sick. I'm sure the fluoride wont penetrate the blood-brain barrier of my baby and make him retarded.

That would've more than probably resulted in the death of the financial system, and alongside it, the entire global economy.

Good, if the system doesn't work then it deserves to die, by continually printing more money we are only digging our grave deeper. Better to have the system die on our terms then theirs. The last act of any standing government is to rob it's treasury. When we lose our standing as the world reserve currency that is exactly what is gonna happen. So we need to preemptively cut their resources by closing down the fed and create a gold or silver backed currency. Fiat currency always fails, history has shown that time and time again. Troubled times are ahead, but I'd rather have to grow my own garden and hunt for food than be locked up in some futuristic nanny state prison city.

Here is a good aid for understanding the current economic decision we are faced with. Nixon once said in a press release that "We are all Keynesians now". the kaynes vs hayek issue

Quote from Don_guillotine

If the financial system died, that would make the Vandals' ransacking of Rome a nice walk in the park. It would be anarchy, not anything according to anyones terms. Our entire civilization would be at peril. More than likely, this scenario would result in a totalitarian nanny state, not the other way around.

The system works, but it is sometimes faced with a shock because of retarded politics. With this type of options (anarchy vs. slowly developing the current system) I'd personally choose the latter any day.


Fiat as it is today has not been tried at this scale before. The Chinese currency was handled horribly (and the 18th/19th century versions were small scale). It's totally plausible that it doesn't fail (the Bretton Woods on the other hand was doomed to fail) within the near future.

However, there aren't really any good alternatives. The problem with any metal currency is that there is too little of any given metal. The finite supply inevitably results in a situation where a metal coin is worth more as the metal than the coin itself. And on the other hand a system where the money is made out of silver, but the value of that silver bears little to no relationship to its face value has all the bad sides of a fiat currency but none of its good sides. Besides, silver and gold have real uses in electronics and whatnot these days.


PS:

I would advise anyone not to buy gold. Gold is currently facing a huge bubble. The people that made money with it have sold their gold already. Right now it's a bear market.

Corporatism is a disease that is evident in our government, and there is no way in hell they are just gonna hand it back to us. When we try to take it back they are gonna do everything in their power to hold on to it, they will threaten us with economic collapse and martial law. There is no reasoning with these corporate tyrants, they have a plan to enslave the world and kill billions of people through war, biological attacks, and soft kill tactics so that they and their progeny can inherit the fruits of the earth and live in a scientific paradise. What do you think they are developing in all those top secret military bases and why have we not seen a shred of it leak into the private sector? They are waiting till we are all dead.

Quote from Daemaro

It's usually overlooked but still worth a good bit and will continue to increase in value.

That is what all of the commercials for gold are saying. "It will never lose its value".

Quote from Don_guillotine

If the financial system died, that would make the Vandals' ransacking of Rome a nice walk in the park. It would be anarchy, not anything according to anyones terms. Our entire civilization would be at peril. More than likely, this scenario would result in a totalitarian nanny state, not the other way around.The system works, but it is sometimes faced with a shock because of retarded politics. With this type of options (anarchy vs. slowly developing the current system) I'd personally choose the latter any day.

The financial system is the only thing that's very, very hard to take down; at one point in time, we have x amount of worth in the value of any given currency and that amounted makes up the sum of the wealth of the entire world. That wealth will not just disappear, it will just go somewhere else. In a world without currency, wealth is shown by material goods and not in currency; the only thing that gives a currency value is the country behind it, and not ideally either, but people looking in decide what that is worth. If people believe in the strength of your country, they will hold your currency to a certain respect.

I would much rather prefer to build upon a system than abandon it completely. I'm not afraid of anarchy, I just think it's highly irrational and, frankly, quite stupid. I think the whole idea of Anarchy is that you don't need a ruling body to establish the boundaries of your life, which I agree with to an extent; I would love to live as my own country, but that is probably never going to happen because every square meter of land has been occupied in some way. If I live in the U.S, I have to pay taxes, it's as simple as that and I have no problem paying taxes (even though I don't because I don't own property), but I wish that I could choose to live without certain rules in my life that restrict freedoms that I want to have. I wish I could buy them, that's what I really wish. I give the government x amount of wealth and they give me a freedom of my choice. Of course I expect there to be restrictions to what I can't do, even if I do choose to buy it, but certain freedoms should be allowed to be bought.

Freedoms that shouldn't be able to be purchased:
- Freedom to enslave
- Freedom to kill people
- Freedom to vandalize
- Freedom to steal without consequence
- Basically any freedom that has the ability to harm others or infringe upon their own rights

I would certainly buy the freedom to allow the use of marijuana, I would do that in a heartbeat. That's where that whole idea originated, can I just buy the right to use marijuana and you don't come knocking on my door with cuffs and throw me in the back of your car?

Quote from Don_guillotine

All that a major gold price drop would require is someone like Portugal selling some of their gold reserves. Portugal currently has a national reserve of 382,5 tonnes of gold. That is worth roughly 12,5 billion dollars. Portugal is facing a debt crisis, so if they sold the gold, this much gold entering the market would probably cause a chain reaction where the gold drops in price a lot.

Ah yes, flooding the market with gold rendering it nearly worthless. If Portugal wanted to, they could. But I highly doubt they will.

If anyone wants to know whats behind the gold and silver thing. (BTW Silver is gold on steroids.) These 3 video's are essential to understanding. The 1st two were made late 2010 and the 2nd addresses the recent attacks on silver. Basically gold and silver are just metals, but when currencies get abused then people return to the safety of old real money, ie: gold and silver. I can tell you physical gold and silver is taking longer to get in hand, I recently ordered some back on the 12th of may and my expected ship date isn't until the end of June.

Mike Maloney Schools Bankers on Deflation, Gold and Silver (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzef43gdupk


Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wrrzsrb-wg&feature=related


Silver Price Manipulation JP Morgan -v- Bunker Hunt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_nEevc0kKs&feature=player_embedded

Thread necro.

For any of you paying attention in US politics, you know that there's more budget talks going on. Do you think it'll go down the same way as last time or will they (and I say this with a staggering amount of sarcasm) pull their heads out of their asses and realize that you just can't cut an inch of the deficit and say "that's all we can do."

Also, HR 2306, proposed by Barney Frank and Ron Paul, seeks to remove marijuana from any federal supervision and jurisdiction, placing any marijuana related law into the hands of the states. Anybody in the US have any opinion on this and any predictions as to how this shit will play out? (I have some hopes, but I know that the House of Representatives is a hellhole for any reasonable discussion about marijuana, so I don't expect it to make it past first plate.)

Edit for typos.

Quote from Daemaro

The marijuana thing needs to happen anyways, not because it's cool for everyone to smoke pot, but because it already comes down to state law. For example California. Sure it's still federally illegal, but states have the right to pass their own law and the DEA doesn't want to get involved in that on a larger scale. So they let marijuana in California go basically unhindered.

As policy devolution goes, states are doing exactly what the federal government expects them to do, which is to test the waters with new laws. States are more ideal places for policy experimentation and depending on how well legalization efforts go, it could be a matter of time before it is made legal on the federal level. But that I believe is still many years away. Possibly it won't happen till I have grandchildren. Possibly longer. But it does depend on the states more than people may think.

It's like with gay marriage. Really the federal government is clueless what to do about that. And people are more concerned about issues with the economy than social issues such as gay rights. So states are taking their own initiative to legalize gay marriage. Again though, it happens ever so gradually.

I've no personal interest to see pot legalized either. I hate deadbeat pot heads. But as public policy goes, I think it's just a matter of practicality. I think we can legalize it so the benefits outweigh the costs and still prevent a slippery slope effect of harder drugs being suddenly legalized too. It really is all about public perception. Alcohol is just as dangerous if not more than marijuana but our perception and attitudes toward alcohol are just completely different.