Exactly. Why bother to play this game if all you care about is competition? This game and the developers deserve more than that. But hey, just my opinion.
I think the "diablo" playstyle is fun. Its not the same as a shooter or an MMO with easy-mode tab targeting. Right now the only other option would be bloodline champions (I think?).
@ wow vs diablo pvp.
I'd like to point out that wow was made, from the start, as a PVE game. In vanilla wow there was no pvp at all (no arena, no BG, no honor, nothing). Then they just started adding pvp elements "on top". Pvp in wow still feels (to me) like a lousy addition. It doesnt "fit" in the game, because the game was not designed with pvp in mind. Thats why we get problems like pvp unbalancing the pve. In D3 they actually have a chance to DESIGN the game with both pve and pvp in mind this time.
First the OP:
Here are the reasons why I consider myself as a competitive gamer:
- I LOVE achievements in general and I'm always trying to complete everything
- While playing multiplayer; I'm always trying to be first and if I end up first, I will enjoy it ;-) But if I lose I won't be mad at all.
- Achievement related but I love to do the kind of stuff like in Dead Space 2. Complete the game in "hardcore" mode (only 3 saves, limited ammos, finish the game with one weapons etc...)
- When I buy a game I always start at the highest difficulty. I will never try to play a game at "Easy" or even "Normal" if I have the choice And I'm usually getting my ass kicked in the first few days.
- If I have friends at home (let say 3 of them), I definitly prefer to play 2v2 instead of going 4v4 on the internet (Halo or any other game).
This being said, I'm playing a LOT of games, multiplayer AND singleplayer etc... And I really really enjoy games in general (the art, the story etc...) but on top of that I will enjoy a game even more if there is that "number" aspect somewhere; I admit it but it does not mean I will not love the game without it.
Now I think there is a distinction between competitive gamers and those folks not happy about the e-sport aspect of Diablo 3. I short, those guys are certainly competitive gamers, but you are not one of those guys by default just because you are competitive I'm the perfect exemple (See next chapter ;-))
Then on PVP in Diablo
I'm with you with this. I mean I saw someone replying that PVP kept Diablo 2 up, I completly disagree with this statement.
I played (and 5 of my friends too) until last month to Diablo 2 and all we did was PVE and high end items farming by ourselves (we never started any PVP thing) and I really believe we are far from the only ones. So saying that PVP kept Diablo 2 up is a bit overstated to me.
PVP in D3 will be a nice addition but it is really not something I'm looking for; even as a competitive gamer.
I don't hate people just because I disagree with them on forums, that's what trolls do. I was merely trying to get my point across, albeit rather bluntly.
And I did read your OP, and your opinions are clear but have little merit. Probably because you've had a few too many bad experiences with people who really are pricks irl and on the internet(and really, who hasn't had a bad experience with one?) and lump all pvpers into this category.
@Simpy7: You'll also find that some people are surprisingly predictable in pvp too. i.e. tunnel vision zerg teams etc
Well...Thank you for your reply. It shows me that my post is clearly not as understandable as I previously thought because you STILL miss what I'm saying.
I specifically set out to make a point that "competitive gamers" was referring to a specific, and small group of people that were not a part of the entire pvp crowd. I by no means lumped all pvp people into one category. As I believe I pointed out, I too pvp. I enjoy pvp a lot. I enjoy competition a lot. I know it's part of human nature. Please do not insinuate otherwise.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
I take your point umpa. Your OP is a little misleading, maybe call those people "overcompetitive" instead of just "competitive." It was my misunderstanding, just realize that most people who pvp consider themselves competitive, including myself.
In vanilla wow there was no pvp at all (no arena, no BG, no honor, nothing).
Then my memory must've become bad because I remember people farming AV endlessly to get GM rank. I remember the Southshore - Tarren Mill world pvp. I remember getting honor ...
Maybe I should see a doctor or something, hrhr
I think what Silverchild was saying is: It was not in the original WOW (Vanilla); real PVP + Ranks came like 6 months after maybe more in a patch.
Those Tarren Mill - Southshore battles was so awesome
At launch there was nothing, and then blizzard realized they had to do something about the PVP. It what something that players wanted. Then we had the honor grind + the firsts battlegrounds. Do you remember how that felt, at first? The honor system was horrible. For the BGs, you had to actually GO there and talk to the battlemaster (or w/e) and wait. It was totally disconnected from everything else, it was inconvenient, you'd have to basically sit there and wait. To me, that felt like blizzard went "oh shit, we forgot PVP,quick, lets make something". I was really unimpressed when they first added those features.
They also pretty much killed world PVP in the process.
Anyways. This time I hope they think about pvp FROM THE START. Because its obvious that pvp is what a lot of players want. Or else they'll have another "oh shit, pvp" moment a few months after release, and they risk screwing everything up.
Except what tends to happen is, pve is fun and pvp is imbalanced. Forums go into an uproar, things are patched several times, and eventually pvp is still imbalanced, but pve also gets turned on it's head in the process. I could use a lot of mmo's as an example here, but yeah, the devs are right to stick to one side or the other. Pandering to both audiences is just going to frustrate everyone.
i guess ive just never played any dedicated pvp games then, because ive never seen an imbalance between pvm and pvp (dedicated pvp games wouldnt have a large pvm community in the first place im guessing lol :D).
in the case of diablo, pvm got screwed over (for me at least) when they decided to plop extra hp, res, and damage on the monsters that people killed too easily in 1.09, and i thought pvmers loved that change...didnt play wow too long so i never got into true pvp. i did kill a lvl 6 with my lvl 3 in an epic fake-runaway-come-back-kaboom thingy. i didnt like the grind.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
D2 screwing up pvm isn't really a valid example unless we're going to conclude D2 had competitive pvp, in which case we're also admitting that D3 has (more) competitive pvp. (It made sense in my head, but i'm drinking scotch so there's a chance this is all bollox)
This thread took a strange turn. Here's what I personally took from the OP.
The group of PvPers who exclusively play to win can be, in his opinion, rude and are poor sportsman. The two most important words in that sentence are: group and can
I think he wishes some gamers would slow down, play for fun, and enjoy the pleasant entertainment. Keyword: some
If you don't think he should lump all PvPers into one group because you're an example of a competitive gamer that does enjoy other experiences...then you're not who he was talking about and should not feel offended. I thought his OP was clear about the specific type of players and who it applied to, in his eyes.
A lot of the people complaining about not having competitive pvp are "competitive gamers".
To me, a competitive gamer is a person who cannot play a game unless it involves competing with others. I know a guy like this. This person literally doesn't enjoy ANY game, unless it is "winning" at something with a defined score and opponent to defeat. The term win does not include beating a game. I'm talking about the guy who only plays games with a singular goal of winning.
Opinion: These people completely miss the point of video games in the first place. They garner some misplaced e-peen pride from winning in-game, while completely failing or avoiding their lives. They crave this sense of self worth via a video game. If there is no such goal, the game is useless to them.
Because of this, they do not actually enjoy the game. They take no time to appreciate the game itself. They take pleasure in one thing and one thing only. Winning.
These people are not gamers by my personal standards. They're just people with unfulfilled dreams that they make up for, via winning in video games.
From personal experience: They are rude, with no sense of sportsmanship(aka don't say gg when they lose and boast and gloat and antagonize when they win), and very trolly.
However, I'm not saying that everyone who wants PVP is among this crowd. But they are certainly a part of the driving force behind it.
Edit: Also, there is NOTHING wrong with competing via video games. I'm not saying that. I certainly have my own fair share of e-peen when it comes to some games like Halo and Wc3(sc2? ehh not so much). And we all know that competing is incredibly fun. It's the driving force behind online gaming which is so crucial to our ever evolving community of gamers. However, if competing is your only enjoyment..well..you read the thread.
I was confused having read this, and here's why- you:
-pretty much categorized most people who enjoy pvp into one category
-made insinuations based off of (what I can only guess to be) what you've experienced to be the truth as an individual, personally concerning said category of players
-those insinuations may/may not belong in a post talking about how players take the game too serious/personally, as they contain rants which an average man would read and see as "insulting"
-you end the post saying that competition/pvp has its place (is a driving force) and that you yourself have enjoyed the competition and have experienced e-peen yourself
I guess my point is you're trying to be in the right by agreeing with the masses, but in doing so you're contradicting yourself and appearing somewhat hypocritical and thus nonsensical, not that you're alone in doing so as I myself have been known to contradict myself time from time. But aren't you kinda just falling into the category of people who take the game too seriously/are too competitive by trying to make correlations between in game preference and peoples' actual lives, which are all incredibly complex and different?
Putting the drama aside, in the end a video game is just another source of entertainment. It may operate differently with our psyches than say watching a movie/tv, but nothing can change the fact that playing a game is just drowning yourself in another form of entertainment for one reason or another, whether you randomly got addicted to video games, to releasing chemicals the entertainment makes you feel and putting the game down, or for the reasons you mentioned.
Whether this is good or bad, who really cares. In the end if you really want to hate on any part of the community I suggest we point the finger at ourselves because in reality we could all be doing something better with our time than watch tv or play a game.
And let's say you were right about competitive people. Is there something wrong with that? Seriously, what's wrong about being competitive, especially as a male? If you aren't competitive as a person and stand up for yourself and what you believe in you're basically just giving away your either(or all)individuality, pride, purpose, rights, etc.
In terms of enjoying the game for what it is, I'm right there with you. I will approach diablo 3 the same way I approach any game, and do whatever I want/can so that it's enjoyable for me, and that's all there is to it. Can you really ask more from players of a video game, without sounding too serious/egotistical yourself?