Even if (and that's one..HUUUUUUUUUGE motherfucking if) reached the very first beginning, they will in no way be able to track even further back, they will just have to accept the fact that God created the very first thing.
Quote from name="Jorge Luis Borges" »
(...)
God moves the player, and he, the chess piece. Which God behind God begins the conspiracy
of dust and time and dream and agony?
If god created the "very first thing", where did god come from? Who created him? A higher god? Then, who created him? And if, on the contrary, he's eternal, wouldn't it also be posible that there's no "very first thing"? That what is actually eternal is the universe, "Big Bang"ing and "Big Crunch"ing endlessly, forever following the set of rules that science naïvely tries to understand called reality?
I'm just popping in to say what great, valid points everybody has in the discussion and to ask anybody who is interested to click the link in my sig NOW!!!
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
He should just make the check boxes square instead or round. As in, you can choose more than one option.
I haven't yet voted because of that. If I had to choose it'd be scientific, but I do believe in some metaphisical stuff. No religion in particular, more like a set of personal beliefs.
It was implied through what he said. He said that if "God" didn't exist, we wouldn't have the ability to think for ourselves ("robots", and, being programmed to think).
Now, free will is a choice. You can choose to follow, or you can choose to think and do for yourself. Now, if he said that free will couldn't exist without "God", he's saying that you need God to make all our choices for us.
Free will is the choice to make your own choices.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
That's fair. If I understood you, then god would be the universe itself, or the rules that control it? Pretty pantheistic.
That's kind of what I believe. My chemistry teacher told me that Na and Cl are attracted by an ionic force, because they are more stable as NaCl than by themselves. But why? Why are they more stable? Whay do they even try to be stable? What is stability in an atomic scale? My physics teacher told me that an electrical current creates a magnetic field around it. But why? And why does a magnetic field only affects moving, charged objects?
Why does G = 6.67300 x 10-11 m3kg-1s-2? Why is the speed of light 299,792,458 m/s?Why are they even fixed numbers? Why does matter presents itself in atoms? Why do opposite charges attract themselves? Why are protons much more massive than electrons and are all packed together? Does it serve a purpose, or it just happens to be that way, just because?
Those answers cannot be answered by science. I believe that "god" is the answer to those questions. God didn't create those rules, god is those rules, the rules that control the universe itself.
Even if (and that's one..HUUUUUUUUUGE motherfucking if) reached the very first beginning, they will in no way be able to track even further back, they will just have to accept the fact that God created the very first thing.
Quote from name="Jorge Luis Borges" »
(...)
God moves the player, and he, the chess piece. Which God behind God begins the conspiracy
of dust and time and dream and agony?
If god created the "very first thing", where did god come from? Who created him? A higher god? Then, who created him? And if, on the contrary, he's eternal, wouldn't it also be posible that there's no "very first thing"? That what is actually eternal is the universe, "Big Bang"ing and "Big Crunch"ing endlessly, forever following the set of rules that science naïvely tries to understand called reality?
If I am to believe that the universe is eternal, than I'd be a huge fucking dumbass. How can the universe be eternal? I mean, sorry, I just can't compute that thought. God is eternal, yes. Faith comes in in order for you to believe that he had no beginning, and has no end. Common sense dictates that if we're just living for the fuck of it, it's pretty retarded. I refuse to believe that I'm not living to achieve something when I die, that I'm just passing time, and I'm just another useless entity. I like to believe that my choices and the paths that I take can have repercussions.
If I am to believe that the universe is eternal, than I'd be a huge fucking dumbass. How can the universe be eternal? I mean, sorry, I just can't compute that thought.
I think it depends how you define universe, whether you think it is everything in existence or whether what is outside our "universe" or in another dimension is a different universe.
Although, regardless of how you define universe either something had to come out of nothing or the universe is eternal. Both of those thoughts are nearly impossible to image.
If you don't think the life you're living is worthwhile unto itself to at least a large degree, you're living a very pathetic life, regardless of whether or not you think something comes after you die. Don't limit the experience of life for those of us that find it quite worthwhile without needing clouds & harps & a pat on the head afterward.
I actually (obviously) believe quite the opposite--my life is absolutely 'retarded' (to use your infantile word) if the 'meaning' of it has been laid out for me. Anyone that can tell you what 'a good life' encompasses is someone that benefits from you living your life that particular way, no matter how you slice it.
I think it's a crutch for people with no imagination to devise purpose and fulfillment in life; they literally want a book (and some guys with fancy hats and fancy buildings) to tell them so they don't have to go through the admittedly arduous task of finding out for themselves.
If I am to believe that the universe is eternal, than I'd be a huge fucking dumbass. How can the universe be eternal? I mean, sorry, I just can't compute that thought. God is eternal, yes. Faith comes in in order for you to believe that he had no beginning, and has no end.
Well, if the universe is god, then it can be eternal. I'm taking a pantheistic approach here. I can't really discuss further about god because I don't know anything about Islam or the Quran, if that's what you believe in. Is god, acording to Islam, an actual being, with will, kind of like the christian one? (I know about religions in general, and I was educated as a christian, but I don't know about any other specific religion, so forgive me if I say something offesive or blatantly wrong) If you care to explain the basics of your religion to me, I could continue the disscusion.
Common sense dictates that if we're just living for the fuck of it, it's pretty retarded. I refuse to believe that I'm not living to achieve something when I die, that I'm just passing time, and I'm just another useless entity. I like to believe that my choices and the paths that I take can have repercussions.
That's not common sense, that's just you hoping that life has meaning. I wrote an essay about this once, criticizing Platon (pretty much the base of a lot of religions) I remember I quoted agent Smith
Quote from name="Agent Smith" »
[The idea of love, or truth, or freedom (anything that transcends your life) are] the temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose.
Why does human life has to have meaning? And if it does, what is it? I believe we are just another animal that happened to develop a better brain than the other animals, and is capable to understand things other animals cannot. But that's it, we are superior, but we are still just animals, with no special meaning, no divine purpose, another "useless entity". When we die, the same thing that happens to animals will happen to us, whatever it is. Of course, this is all very subjective and I don't think there a way to really discuss this. It just depends on whether you believe, or you don't
The Bible is composed of morals and beliefs (in clever metaphors). You could deduct that the Bible is the Christian God's book of morals, but that does not mean that you need religion to have morals.
Morals are what a person thinks is right. They define their own morals, whether or not they are societically appropriate. Not every Christian believes the same thing either, that's the thing about morals.
So, if anything, morals are the backdrop to any religion with the deity being the figurehead.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
evolution has yet to meet one plausible counter-evidence that isn't the notion that this 'God' being is just faking it all.
Creation by an entity doesn't have any counter-evidence, either. In fact, it's unprovable. So is evolution, since no one can afford to wait a few hundred years. The reason people hang on to evolution, is because it's there, and it's provable (making it appeal more to "scientists". That aside, they're both theories, one as good as the other.
The ironic thing is that creation does not directly invalidate evolution.
Most people who oppose anyone "religious" and support evolution don't know much about it, either. It's just a counter crusade against ORGANIZED religion and those of us unorganized got caught in the mix and we're called idiots like the rest.
If you don't think the life you're living is worthwhile unto itself to at least a large degree, you're living a very pathetic life, regardless of whether or not you think something comes after you die. Don't limit the experience of life for those of us that find it quite worthwhile without needing clouds & harps & a pat on the head afterward.
I actually (obviously) believe quite the opposite--my life is absolutely 'retarded' (to use your infantile word) if the 'meaning' of it has been laid out for me. Anyone that can tell you what 'a good life' encompasses is someone that benefits from you living your life that particular way, no matter how you slice it.
I think it's a crutch for people with no imagination to devise purpose and fulfillment in life; they literally want a book (and some guys with fancy hats and fancy buildings) to tell them so they don't have to go through the admittedly arduous task of finding out for themselves.
So you think living a life where you work, feed yourself, enjoy your time with family and friends, is GREAT? You think that you're leading a system that works? Then what? Why aren't you secretly slipping untraceable chemicals to kill people you don't like? Do you think it's morally wrong? Why? There has to be an ultimate destination where what you did in life weighs into what happens to you then and there. You think it's retarded to have the meaning laid out in front of you? Based on what you said, you live just to live. This isn't a movie that you don't want to know the ending of, until you know what happened that led to said ending. You either live your life in hopes of going to Heaven, or not caring if you go to Hell, or you just don't believe in God, you do whatever the fuck you want, and lead a care-free life. It's a black/white case. Stop making it seem like there are shades of gray.
Stop dropping subtle things that are supposed to insult me. Either debate like an adult, or stop your idiotic remarks and fuck off this topic.
DieHardDiabloFan:
God in Islam has no beginning, no end, no shape, form, color, smell. He's nothing that you can possibly imagine. He exists without having a place in which he exists. He transcends every single human trait. Speaks with no voice, sees with no eyes. He's perfect, and only He can be perfect. Clear enough?
If life doesn't have meaning, either kill yourself, or all out enjoy yourself. If you had a billion dollars, would you spend it all on fornication, fucking pretty blonde women, buying everything you want, buying your way into everything? I know I certainly wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but I think this life is just a phase..a test if you will, and the after-life is to be fought for, because we exist only to show God that we are worthy of Heaven, and that we should not enter Hell. God didn't toss people in Heaven and Hell because people going to Hell would say "God, I would have been pious and good if you had offered me life, and given me the chance to show you". We live so that when some of us go to Hell, those people would have no excuse.
Lol@quoting Agent Smith in a serious discussion, by the way.
Kiserai, you've gone overboard, dude. You are going on about killing people and burying them just for being religious and believing in something, you start offending people, you start offending people's views about things, you start saying in your status that some people should not step foot in the general discussion because you "lost respect" to them and I asked you in a personal message why is that because I knew this was directed to me "among the others" as you said and you called me an idiot and simpleton, well this ends your "I'm fairly moralistic" speach, dude.
Here is what this "fairly moralistic" man who goes on about killing people replied to me in a personal message, grab the popcorn people:
Quote from name="Kiserai" timestamp="1282952785" date="28 August 2010 - 12:46 AM" »
Quote from name="Akuma_Gin" timestamp="1282952545" date="27 August 2010 - 07:42 PM" »
You don't wanna answer my question? That's not very manly... You offend a someone or a group of people by telling certain things and when asked why do you think like that you don't answer... Not very "moralistic" and last time I checked you described yourself as "fairly moralistic". Well, I guess people like you are self-conceited hypocrites
Who said I wasn't responding?
Why do I think that? Think what? Are you asking why I posted that I've lost respect for you among others? Because by your postings you, in my eyes, have revealed yourself to be an idiot, and I rarely find myself respecting simpletons.
Is that a direct enough answer to satisfy you?
Thank God other people who are atheists aren't as "moralistic" as you or else we who believe in something will end up dead, lol. Nice going by calling people idiots and simpletons just because they don't share your views on things.
Uhh, why are you even giving him the time of day? Let him be what he wants to be. He will either get banned, or laughed at by everyone who knows the "badass" "fuck you all, I'm God" persona only works when you're me.
Meph: "So you think living a life where you work, feed yourself, enjoy your time with family and friends, is GREAT?"
Yes. I think a life without God remains a life full of a million things that make life, life isolated, absolutely worthwhile.
Do you want me to give you examples? I can. They are -my- examples. I can't tell you what yours are, that's for you to decide.
Love, sex, art, poetry, good movies, laughably bad movies, the first chilly-breezed day of fall when I can throw on my favorite hoodie, the first home football game at Notre Dame stadium of the season complete with tailgating and student-section cheers, a new book by a favorite novelist, an art gallery showing by an artist I had until that night never heard of but afterward am obsessed by, the launch of a video game I've been anticipating, quite literally, for years, playing a 2v2 Starcraft2 match with my bud Zhar, listening to intellectual debate, watching the evening news and feeling a sense of connection with the rest of the world (sometimes, at least), hearing my favorite song come on the radio when I'm having a shitty morning, asking my girlfriend to marry me, having children, graduating from my dream university with a Masters Degree (first in my family to get a degree of any kind), finding a fulfilling job I enjoy satisfaction in every single day, driving a beautiful and fast car that I earned with my own money, find ways to volunteer in my community and give back to those who can't enjoy the same things that I do, giving my time/money/skills away for free because it gives others fulfillment and thusly provides it to me as well.
I can go on if you find it necessary. Not one of these things depends on my believing in a dude in the sky who not only exists but cares what the fuck I do with my sexual organs, much less even more superficial moral choices. How narcissistic and petty and childish it is to lean on such things to find meaning in life. You can do better. We call can. We all should.
All those remain vacant. One day, hopefully, you will stop and think "OK, this is fun, but then what? I enjoy these things, but then what? What is the purpose? Is me enjoying these things what life is all about? Isn't there more to it?" and worship God, and STILL be able to do those things. Religion doesn't tell you to not have fun, to not enjoy life, and to lead a life where you sit home, read scripture, pray, and curse the non-believers every second of your life. Who said you can't have the car you love, marry the woman you love, have a great job, and lead a great existence, without believing in God, and aspiring to go to Heaven? Who said you can't worship God, do the basic things he told you to do, and not to the things he told you not to do, yet still very much enjoy life? I play the video games that I like, I drink, I masturbate, I fuck around with girls, but at the end of the day, I worship God, pray, fast, and do the things that I can to serve God, hoping he would forgive my wrongdoings and my shortcomings, and the things that he has forbidden, yet I can't bring myself to not do them. Not every believer leads a complete, and utter life of piousness. My uncle does, and I'd hate to become like him, for example.
God in Islam has no beginning, no end, no shape, form, color, smell. He's nothing that you can possibly imagine. He exists without having a place in which he exists. He transcends every single human trait. Speaks with no voice, sees with no eyes. He's perfect, and only He can be perfect. Clear enough?
If life doesn't have meaning, either kill yourself, or all out enjoy yourself. If you had a billion dollars, would you spend it all on fornication, fucking pretty blonde women, buying everything you want, buying your way into everything? I know I certainly wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but I think this life is just a phase..a test if you will, and the after-life is to be fought for, because we exist only to show God that we are worthy of Heaven, and that we should not enter Hell. God didn't toss people in Heaven and Hell because people going to Hell would say "God, I would have been pious and good if you had offered me life, and given me the chance to show you". We live so that when some of us go to Hell, those people would have no excuse.
Well, the idea is to all out enjoy myself. I wouldn't spend the money that way either, there are different ways to obtain pleasure than sex and property. I, for instance, really enjoy the feeling I get when I help people and they appreciate it. I've literally passed out from the effort while I was building a house for a poor family in my country. I didn't do it to go to Heaven, I didn't do it because it's the right thing to do, I didn't even do it for the family, I did it because I feel good doing it. So maybe I'll donate some, not for the people in need, but for myself. I would also spend some in scientific research, not to help humanity take a step forward in the understanding of the universe, but because I find it really interesting, and I enjoy reading about it, so what the heck. And yeah, I'd probably spend some on my family and myself.
I know it's a pretty selfish philosophy, but I'm not saying "Be a jackass, there's no god, so nobody can judge you", I'm saying "Don't waste your life trying to go to Heaven, when you may be wrong and this is the only life you get." If you feel good dedicating your life to religion, good for you. If you feel good having a wife and children and living for your family, good for you. If you enjoy casual sex with strangers until you're old, good for you. Still, you will not be punished or rewarded for any of it. One may say "What's the point of living if I'm eventually gonna die and there's nothing afterwards?" The answer would be living. Life is the reason of itself. And I'd rather enjoy my meaningless life, than suffer it.
I do recognize a flaw on my way of thinking though, and it's that it's quite dangerous. I mean, I enjoy helping people because I was educated as a christian, I owe religion that, but if a not-so-well-educated person adopted this philosophy it could turn into something quite nasty. I didn't add "If you enjoy going on a killing spree, good for you" for a reason. Still, it works for me and that's what's important.
Lol@quoting Agent Smith in a serious discussion, by the way.
Haha, I know. My philosphy teacher pretty much touched herself while watching The Matrix, so I used that to my advantage. The essay got full marks. Still, it ilustrates the point I was trying to convey quite nicely.
EDIT: Reading your last post before this one (it wasn't there when I started typing) I envy you. I pretty much built this philosophy because I just couldn't believe in the god they were imposing on me, so I had to build a way of thinking that didn't require a god. Still, it would be nice to have something else give meaning to one's life. Specially in the bad moments when this question "either kill yourself, or all out enjoy yourself" isn't so readily answered. Maybe I should look into other religions...
Dude, really? I though this was a "serious discussion"
Why do you think you practice religion in the first place? Do you really think you'd still do it if believing in life after death didn't give YOU some sort of comfort?
I practice religion because that's what I believe I should do. In Islam, you can believe in God and do what he tells you solely out of fear of Hell, and just that. It's not about comfort, it's about logic, at least to me.
Yeah, Christianity has the same concept. Fear of God, I believe they call it. I always saw that as a religious marketing tool "Obey me, or you'll burn in hell"
Anyways, I see your point, I hope I could get mine across, and this used to be about Science vs. Religion.
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If god created the "very first thing", where did god come from? Who created him? A higher god? Then, who created him? And if, on the contrary, he's eternal, wouldn't it also be posible that there's no "very first thing"? That what is actually eternal is the universe, "Big Bang"ing and "Big Crunch"ing endlessly, forever following the set of rules that science naïvely tries to understand called reality?
I haven't yet voted because of that. If I had to choose it'd be scientific, but I do believe in some metaphisical stuff. No religion in particular, more like a set of personal beliefs.
It was implied through what he said. He said that if "God" didn't exist, we wouldn't have the ability to think for ourselves ("robots", and, being programmed to think).
Now, free will is a choice. You can choose to follow, or you can choose to think and do for yourself. Now, if he said that free will couldn't exist without "God", he's saying that you need God to make all our choices for us.
Free will is the choice to make your own choices.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
That's fair. If I understood you, then god would be the universe itself, or the rules that control it? Pretty pantheistic.
That's kind of what I believe. My chemistry teacher told me that Na and Cl are attracted by an ionic force, because they are more stable as NaCl than by themselves. But why? Why are they more stable? Whay do they even try to be stable? What is stability in an atomic scale? My physics teacher told me that an electrical current creates a magnetic field around it. But why? And why does a magnetic field only affects moving, charged objects?
Why does G = 6.67300 x 10-11 m3kg-1s-2? Why is the speed of light 299,792,458 m/s? Why are they even fixed numbers? Why does matter presents itself in atoms? Why do opposite charges attract themselves? Why are protons much more massive than electrons and are all packed together? Does it serve a purpose, or it just happens to be that way, just because?
Those answers cannot be answered by science. I believe that "god" is the answer to those questions. God didn't create those rules, god is those rules, the rules that control the universe itself.
That's my view on the subject.
If I am to believe that the universe is eternal, than I'd be a huge fucking dumbass. How can the universe be eternal? I mean, sorry, I just can't compute that thought. God is eternal, yes. Faith comes in in order for you to believe that he had no beginning, and has no end. Common sense dictates that if we're just living for the fuck of it, it's pretty retarded. I refuse to believe that I'm not living to achieve something when I die, that I'm just passing time, and I'm just another useless entity. I like to believe that my choices and the paths that I take can have repercussions.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
I think it depends how you define universe, whether you think it is everything in existence or whether what is outside our "universe" or in another dimension is a different universe.
Although, regardless of how you define universe either something had to come out of nothing or the universe is eternal. Both of those thoughts are nearly impossible to image.
If you don't think the life you're living is worthwhile unto itself to at least a large degree, you're living a very pathetic life, regardless of whether or not you think something comes after you die. Don't limit the experience of life for those of us that find it quite worthwhile without needing clouds & harps & a pat on the head afterward.
I actually (obviously) believe quite the opposite--my life is absolutely 'retarded' (to use your infantile word) if the 'meaning' of it has been laid out for me. Anyone that can tell you what 'a good life' encompasses is someone that benefits from you living your life that particular way, no matter how you slice it.
I think it's a crutch for people with no imagination to devise purpose and fulfillment in life; they literally want a book (and some guys with fancy hats and fancy buildings) to tell them so they don't have to go through the admittedly arduous task of finding out for themselves.
Well, if the universe is god, then it can be eternal. I'm taking a pantheistic approach here. I can't really discuss further about god because I don't know anything about Islam or the Quran, if that's what you believe in. Is god, acording to Islam, an actual being, with will, kind of like the christian one? (I know about religions in general, and I was educated as a christian, but I don't know about any other specific religion, so forgive me if I say something offesive or blatantly wrong) If you care to explain the basics of your religion to me, I could continue the disscusion.
That's not common sense, that's just you hoping that life has meaning. I wrote an essay about this once, criticizing Platon (pretty much the base of a lot of religions) I remember I quoted agent Smith
Why does human life has to have meaning? And if it does, what is it? I believe we are just another animal that happened to develop a better brain than the other animals, and is capable to understand things other animals cannot. But that's it, we are superior, but we are still just animals, with no special meaning, no divine purpose, another "useless entity". When we die, the same thing that happens to animals will happen to us, whatever it is. Of course, this is all very subjective and I don't think there a way to really discuss this. It just depends on whether you believe, or you don't
Religion < morals
The Bible is composed of morals and beliefs (in clever metaphors). You could deduct that the Bible is the Christian God's book of morals, but that does not mean that you need religion to have morals.
Morals are what a person thinks is right. They define their own morals, whether or not they are societically appropriate. Not every Christian believes the same thing either, that's the thing about morals.
So, if anything, morals are the backdrop to any religion with the deity being the figurehead.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
The ironic thing is that creation does not directly invalidate evolution.
Most people who oppose anyone "religious" and support evolution don't know much about it, either. It's just a counter crusade against ORGANIZED religion and those of us unorganized got caught in the mix and we're called idiots like the rest.
Free will doesn't exist and God doesn't have anything to do with it. If anything, evolution is the biggest restriction of free will there is.
So you think living a life where you work, feed yourself, enjoy your time with family and friends, is GREAT? You think that you're leading a system that works? Then what? Why aren't you secretly slipping untraceable chemicals to kill people you don't like? Do you think it's morally wrong? Why? There has to be an ultimate destination where what you did in life weighs into what happens to you then and there. You think it's retarded to have the meaning laid out in front of you? Based on what you said, you live just to live. This isn't a movie that you don't want to know the ending of, until you know what happened that led to said ending. You either live your life in hopes of going to Heaven, or not caring if you go to Hell, or you just don't believe in God, you do whatever the fuck you want, and lead a care-free life. It's a black/white case. Stop making it seem like there are shades of gray.
Stop dropping subtle things that are supposed to insult me. Either debate like an adult, or stop your idiotic remarks and fuck off this topic.
DieHardDiabloFan:
God in Islam has no beginning, no end, no shape, form, color, smell. He's nothing that you can possibly imagine. He exists without having a place in which he exists. He transcends every single human trait. Speaks with no voice, sees with no eyes. He's perfect, and only He can be perfect. Clear enough?
If life doesn't have meaning, either kill yourself, or all out enjoy yourself. If you had a billion dollars, would you spend it all on fornication, fucking pretty blonde women, buying everything you want, buying your way into everything? I know I certainly wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but I think this life is just a phase..a test if you will, and the after-life is to be fought for, because we exist only to show God that we are worthy of Heaven, and that we should not enter Hell. God didn't toss people in Heaven and Hell because people going to Hell would say "God, I would have been pious and good if you had offered me life, and given me the chance to show you". We live so that when some of us go to Hell, those people would have no excuse.
Lol@quoting Agent Smith in a serious discussion, by the way.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Uhh, why are you even giving him the time of day? Let him be what he wants to be. He will either get banned, or laughed at by everyone who knows the "badass" "fuck you all, I'm God" persona only works when you're me.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Yes. I think a life without God remains a life full of a million things that make life, life isolated, absolutely worthwhile.
Do you want me to give you examples? I can. They are -my- examples. I can't tell you what yours are, that's for you to decide.
Love, sex, art, poetry, good movies, laughably bad movies, the first chilly-breezed day of fall when I can throw on my favorite hoodie, the first home football game at Notre Dame stadium of the season complete with tailgating and student-section cheers, a new book by a favorite novelist, an art gallery showing by an artist I had until that night never heard of but afterward am obsessed by, the launch of a video game I've been anticipating, quite literally, for years, playing a 2v2 Starcraft2 match with my bud Zhar, listening to intellectual debate, watching the evening news and feeling a sense of connection with the rest of the world (sometimes, at least), hearing my favorite song come on the radio when I'm having a shitty morning, asking my girlfriend to marry me, having children, graduating from my dream university with a Masters Degree (first in my family to get a degree of any kind), finding a fulfilling job I enjoy satisfaction in every single day, driving a beautiful and fast car that I earned with my own money, find ways to volunteer in my community and give back to those who can't enjoy the same things that I do, giving my time/money/skills away for free because it gives others fulfillment and thusly provides it to me as well.
I can go on if you find it necessary. Not one of these things depends on my believing in a dude in the sky who not only exists but cares what the fuck I do with my sexual organs, much less even more superficial moral choices. How narcissistic and petty and childish it is to lean on such things to find meaning in life. You can do better. We call can. We all should.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Clear enough, thanks.
Well, the idea is to all out enjoy myself. I wouldn't spend the money that way either, there are different ways to obtain pleasure than sex and property. I, for instance, really enjoy the feeling I get when I help people and they appreciate it. I've literally passed out from the effort while I was building a house for a poor family in my country. I didn't do it to go to Heaven, I didn't do it because it's the right thing to do, I didn't even do it for the family, I did it because I feel good doing it. So maybe I'll donate some, not for the people in need, but for myself. I would also spend some in scientific research, not to help humanity take a step forward in the understanding of the universe, but because I find it really interesting, and I enjoy reading about it, so what the heck. And yeah, I'd probably spend some on my family and myself.
I know it's a pretty selfish philosophy, but I'm not saying "Be a jackass, there's no god, so nobody can judge you", I'm saying "Don't waste your life trying to go to Heaven, when you may be wrong and this is the only life you get." If you feel good dedicating your life to religion, good for you. If you feel good having a wife and children and living for your family, good for you. If you enjoy casual sex with strangers until you're old, good for you. Still, you will not be punished or rewarded for any of it. One may say "What's the point of living if I'm eventually gonna die and there's nothing afterwards?" The answer would be living. Life is the reason of itself. And I'd rather enjoy my meaningless life, than suffer it.
I do recognize a flaw on my way of thinking though, and it's that it's quite dangerous. I mean, I enjoy helping people because I was educated as a christian, I owe religion that, but if a not-so-well-educated person adopted this philosophy it could turn into something quite nasty. I didn't add "If you enjoy going on a killing spree, good for you" for a reason. Still, it works for me and that's what's important.
Haha, I know. My philosphy teacher pretty much touched herself while watching The Matrix, so I used that to my advantage. The essay got full marks. Still, it ilustrates the point I was trying to convey quite nicely.
EDIT: Reading your last post before this one (it wasn't there when I started typing) I envy you. I pretty much built this philosophy because I just couldn't believe in the god they were imposing on me, so I had to build a way of thinking that didn't require a god. Still, it would be nice to have something else give meaning to one's life. Specially in the bad moments when this question "either kill yourself, or all out enjoy yourself" isn't so readily answered. Maybe I should look into other religions...
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Why do you think you practice religion in the first place? Do you really think you'd still do it if believing in life after death didn't give YOU some sort of comfort?
I practice religion because that's what I believe I should do. In Islam, you can believe in God and do what he tells you solely out of fear of Hell, and just that. It's not about comfort, it's about logic, at least to me.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Anyways, I see your point, I hope I could get mine across, and this used to be about Science vs. Religion.