that video does not simply apply to americans but all countries where some of the population has no fucking idea about fucking anything... honestly i had to pause the video a few times because i felt so bad for the people in it. there were a few people, actually just 1 guy who sounded like he knew what he was talking about. (the aussie guy gave 3 possible answers, the american guy said a bit of all of them, he didnt say that didnt make sense to be respectful (from what i could tell))
i really think that if you want to vote we should take a page out of the founders of democracy (Athens) and have only certain citizens be allowed the right to vote. Only people who pass a certain test made by a third party should be allowed the right to vote. by the way i am citing athens because their citizens were all very very up to date on everything political and were included in discussions so you had to know what you were talking about. I think this would be a modern day equivalent
im not sure how the test would work, perhaps say within 1 month you would be required (if you wanted to vote) to go into a testing facility and fill out a sort of test like a drivers test. takes 30-60 minutes and you are required to get say at least 70-80%
but what about the people giving out the test and are in charge of scoring them? i would not rely on them to be completely 'honest' in 'grading' these test to pass a vote. to hell with it, anarchy i say!!!!! (kidding).
but i do understand what you mean, it's kinda like testing someone who wants to become a citizen in america. i guess it might work though i agree with you that it's unclear how it will work. would it be easier to just have leadership like communism from a group of people rather than having to give power to one? besides, we already have the senate and the court that have power to veto each other.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
----------------------- "What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?" -Beowulf
LOL. Seriously? That dude is always going around making stuff like this. Completely skewed it how it's presented. Just look at the type of people he targets in most of those questions.
Being Canadian, you probably love to find little pieces like this. I'm sure they "conveniently" left out the many people who answered their questions correctly. It's amazing how things can seem when it's presented in a certain way.
And YES, I agree with you actually to an extent. I believe one must have at least a high school education before they're allowed to vote. Also, they must be an employed, productive member of society. Now, there are exclusions to that, but I don't feel like listing them.
LOL. Seriously? That dude is always going around making stuff like this. Completely skewed it how it's presented. Just look at the type of people he targets in most of those questions.
Being Canadian, you probably love to find little pieces like this. I'm sure they "conveniently" left out the many people who answered their questions correctly. It's amazing how things can seem when it's presented in a certain way.
And YES, I agree with you actually to an extent. I believe one must have at least a high school education before they're allowed to vote. Also, they must be an employed, productive member of society. Now, there are exclusions to that, but I don't feel like listing them.
yes being Canadian i just love to find dirt on Americans its basically my job... >_>
and how is it being presented? they are asking some people and they are answering. sure they are taking the most stupid answers but thats completely irrelevant. the fact that there are people like that proves that a system like the one i mentioned needs to be implemented.
Quote from name="unwritten law" »
but what about the people giving out the test and are in charge of scoring them? i would not rely on them to be completely 'honest' in 'grading' these test to pass a vote. to hell with it, anarchy i say!!!!! (kidding).
but i do understand what you mean, it's kinda like testing someone who wants to become a citizen in america. i guess it might work though i agree with you that it's unclear how it will work. would it be easier to just have leadership like communism from a group of people rather than having to give power to one? besides, we already have the senate and the court that have power to veto each other.
there would be no marking... it would be multiple choice answers like on road tests. you go up to a touch screen in a booth and simply select the answer. you would then walk up to the desk in the place you were in and if you passed you would get a slip that entitled you to vote. (by the way i was intended this to be used in Canada as well im not just saying americans are like this because I KNOW for a fact that every country has people like this.)
LOL. Seriously? That dude is always going around making stuff like this. Completely skewed it how it's presented. Just look at the type of people he targets in most of those questions.
Being Canadian, you probably love to find little pieces like this. I'm sure they "conveniently" left out the many people who answered their questions correctly. It's amazing how things can seem when it's presented in a certain way.
And YES, I agree with you actually to an extent. I believe one must have at least a high school education before they're allowed to vote. Also, they must be an employed, productive member of society. Now, there are exclusions to that, but I don't feel like listing them.
i was gona say the same thing. that video is biased and i wouldnt rely on it for anything. i could make a video contradicting that by showing only intelligent americans and say that it is full of smart people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
----------------------- "What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?" -Beowulf
Erm, electoral college anyone? The problem with that is you're pretty much making an express lane to corruption via wealth. The only thing that needs to go is the media. Fucking manipulative bastards. Nothing about the election should be televised. It subverts the need to research and leaves everyone feeling like a political savant, when really, they're just a tool.
I think that politicians should be forced to live the life of a monk, totally dedicated to serving his people. He may not have any worldly possessions, he must live within the confides of a monastery (government building). and he must be fed meager rations. This is the best chance we have at creating a utopia not driven by greed but hope and love.
Erm, electoral college anyone? The problem with that is you're pretty much making an express lane to corruption via wealth. The only thing that needs to go is the media. Fucking manipulative bastards. Nothing about the election should be televised. It subverts the need to research and leaves everyone feeling like a political savant, when really, they're just a tool.
I think that politicians should be forced to live the life of a monk, totally dedicated to serving his people. He may not have any worldly possessions, he must live within the confides of a monastery (government building). and he must be fed meager rations. This is the best chance we have at creating a utopia not driven by greed but hope and love.
Erm, electoral college anyone? The problem with that is you're pretty much making an express lane to corruption via wealth. The only thing that needs to go is the media. Fucking manipulative bastards. Nothing about the election should be televised. It subverts the need to research and leaves everyone feeling like a political savant, when really, they're just a tool.
I think that politicians should be forced to live the life of a monk, totally dedicated to serving his people. He may not have any worldly possessions, he must live within the confides of a monastery (government building). and he must be fed meager rations. This is the best chance we have at creating a utopia not driven by greed but hope and love.
it reminds me of barack obama a little. he wants to make everyone happy and live peaceful lives. unfortunately it's unrealistic since you will always have bad people.
the solution is fixing the media. i think the people are way too disillusioned and brainwashed and are manipulated so those in power get away with crimes much better. instead of waking up in the morning and watching news about what the f*ck britney spears is doing this time and actually watching news about the progress of those in power would help. infact, i say no more secrecy. leaders must be watched at all times and no secrets held from public view.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
----------------------- "What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?" -Beowulf
Couple of things. How does any of this have any bearing on the success of democracy? Plus, the average person really doesn't concern themselves that much with politics. And do you really think out of every single person interviewed that not one person got the question right? Behold the power of editing.
Also, even a person fairly well versed in world events and geography can start to slip up when someone blindsides them with a camera and starts asking them all these question.
Democracy works for individual settlements, not empires. Empires are ravaged by war mongering vultures that wish nothing else but to suck the life out of the masses and move on, all the while gaining power. The best way as I see it is to have each community run itself with the monk-like politicians I was speaking of. Preventing any wide spread manipulation. This way the government would adjust to it's peoples instead of the other way around. If you don't agree with your communities views then find one that you can agree with and move there.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Couple of things. How does any of this have any bearing on the success of democracy? Plus, the average person really doesn't concern themselves that much with politics. And do you really think out of every single person interviewed that not one person got the question right? Behold the power of editing.
Also, even a person fairly well versed in world events and geography can start to slip up when someone blindsides them with a camera and starts asking them all these question.
People who don't concern themselves with politics shouldn't be voting.
Couple of things. How does any of this have any bearing on the success of democracy? Plus, the average person really doesn't concern themselves that much with politics. And do you really think out of every single person interviewed that not one person got the question right? Behold the power of editing.
Also, even a person fairly well versed in world events and geography can start to slip up when someone blindsides them with a camera and starts asking them all these question.
People who don't concern themselves with politics shouldn't be voting.
To what extent is it necessary be concerned with politics in order to qualify to vote? You probably can't answer this. And not many people can. So you can be as idealistic as you want and think of all these added things people should have to do in order to get to vote. But that's all too complicated so all you need (in the U.S. anyway) is to be over 18 and registered.
Without the media, there wouldn't be as many people voting. The people voting would be the ones that go to see the speeches and rallys, the ones that are informed enough to make the right decision. Whatever happens, it needs to break down the 2 party system so that we can get out of this cycle of bullshit promises and twisted facts, congress is the biggest hurdle in that respect.
Democracy doesn't "fail", that's a rather uneducated thing to say. Democracy has its ups and downs, just as any other system. There is no perfect system out there. There is just a bunch of people who prefer different ones.
Most people that come out to bash democracy are having a temper tantrum. There is little point in bashing an idea without presenting an alternative. And an alternative is communism, dictatorship and so on...
That video is about something totally different, by the way...
by the way i am citing athens because their citizens were all very very up to date on everything political and were included in discussions so you had to know what you were talking about.
Actually, that's not exactly true. In fact, Socrates and Plato often complained about the fact that people were too lazy to go to the assemblies and the police had to drag them to it.
so you had to know what you were talking about.
That's even less true. Most of the Greek politicians were sophists. So...
Here is my answer to the question:
Yes American democracy has huge flaws, like pretty much any other political system in the world. But in my opinion that's not the main problem.
Me and my family originate from the Soviet Union and by moving to Canada I figured something out. The problem is not the political system but the humanbeing. No matter the political system, the human being will always be greedy, lazy, mean etc etc. He will allways find ways to make profit on the backs of other human beings, to eliminate those who oppose him etc etc. If the human being had the will to progress, to understand, to forgive and to change all of those people in the video would have answered that the triangle has 3 sides. The world's situation would also be different. 800 millions wouldn't be dying of hunger and maybe we would have done something great as a specie.
The human being is capable of both good and bad things.....but does mostly the bad things. If we weren't greedy, capitalism would not even be a problem because large corporations would share their money with the poor. If people weren't lazy and had the will to learn and understand, they would all know where is Iraq on the world map. And so on..
There are exeptions. But proportions are of capital importance. And there are too few exeptions.
EDIT: Yea like Equinox said, the video is about something totally different btw.
Democracy doesn't "fail", that's a rather uneducated thing to say. Democracy has its ups and downs, just as any other system. There is no perfect system out there. There is just a bunch of people who prefer different ones.
Most people that come out to bash democracy are having a temper tantrum. There is little point in bashing an idea without presenting an alternative. And an alternative is communism, dictatorship and so on...
That video is about something totally different, by the way...
ok then i shall edit my statement to: this is where democracy fails.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I honestly think there are more important things for people to learn than what's the capital of <insert tiny European country here>.
if you watch the entire thing you can see that that was most certainly not the only thing he asked
*btw Voxorb thank you for filling me in, i wasn't aware of that. I did however realize that their democracy was most certainly not perfect i was just using it as a rough example
anyways i agree, the human being is the problem. However if those willing to learn and then do the test to be able to vote that would root out those who were unwilling but who would normally vote. sort of like evolution, taking them out of the gene pool, or in this case out of the voting pool.
Again, what does this video have to do with democracy?
Democracy is a governmental system. Uneducated people are not generated by democracy.
is that a serious question lol?
i was saying that it fails because the people voting fail at voting... ie they are not informed and so instead of doing something positive they ultimately are able to vote for someone who is not good.
For example... party A is super SUPER xenophobic and keep to themselves (basically like the one in v for vendetta or 1984), and the other government is more relaxed more like what we are used to now. Now A decides to spread propaganda through the media and uneducated citizens then believe it without researching or confirming and just listen to small bits of what the media is saying and ultimately come to conclusions that arent true... like the world is going to end.. etc. (similiar to those in the video who have very very unenducated opinions, opinions forged through CNN)
so party A comes to power. Now if the idiots who voted for A had actually been smart and not failed at voting, and had done their duty by researching they would ultimately be spared.
So i suppose democracy in the sense of whoever gets more votes doesn't fail, just the great mass of uneducated humans makes it suffer/not work as well/degrades the overall goal of democracy which is the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. however when the populace is unable to know whats best for itself it ultimately fails in the goal it set for itself.
---
Quote from "Kenzai" »
I saw that vid before. It looks pretty serious. But is that real? :confused: Its just unbelievable. You sure its not acted by those people?
So seriously, is that vid for real?!?
Edit: On topic:
Im all with Equinox. Theres no perfect system. What matters is how its operated, or something like that. What i mean is, a good dictator could be better than bad democrasy. Get the point?
yes it is for real. that show does heaps of stuff for real. like on some summit thing in Australia they pretend to be the leaders of that country. link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoYpkcSyYiI
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
that video does not simply apply to americans but all countries where some of the population has no fucking idea about fucking anything... honestly i had to pause the video a few times because i felt so bad for the people in it. there were a few people, actually just 1 guy who sounded like he knew what he was talking about. (the aussie guy gave 3 possible answers, the american guy said a bit of all of them, he didnt say that didnt make sense to be respectful (from what i could tell))
i really think that if you want to vote we should take a page out of the founders of democracy (Athens) and have only certain citizens be allowed the right to vote. Only people who pass a certain test made by a third party should be allowed the right to vote. by the way i am citing athens because their citizens were all very very up to date on everything political and were included in discussions so you had to know what you were talking about. I think this would be a modern day equivalent
im not sure how the test would work, perhaps say within 1 month you would be required (if you wanted to vote) to go into a testing facility and fill out a sort of test like a drivers test. takes 30-60 minutes and you are required to get say at least 70-80%
what is your take?
but i do understand what you mean, it's kinda like testing someone who wants to become a citizen in america. i guess it might work though i agree with you that it's unclear how it will work. would it be easier to just have leadership like communism from a group of people rather than having to give power to one? besides, we already have the senate and the court that have power to veto each other.
"What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?"
-Beowulf
Being Canadian, you probably love to find little pieces like this. I'm sure they "conveniently" left out the many people who answered their questions correctly. It's amazing how things can seem when it's presented in a certain way.
And YES, I agree with you actually to an extent. I believe one must have at least a high school education before they're allowed to vote. Also, they must be an employed, productive member of society. Now, there are exclusions to that, but I don't feel like listing them.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
yes being Canadian i just love to find dirt on Americans its basically my job... >_>
and how is it being presented? they are asking some people and they are answering. sure they are taking the most stupid answers but thats completely irrelevant. the fact that there are people like that proves that a system like the one i mentioned needs to be implemented.
there would be no marking... it would be multiple choice answers like on road tests. you go up to a touch screen in a booth and simply select the answer. you would then walk up to the desk in the place you were in and if you passed you would get a slip that entitled you to vote. (by the way i was intended this to be used in Canada as well im not just saying americans are like this because I KNOW for a fact that every country has people like this.)
i was gona say the same thing. that video is biased and i wouldnt rely on it for anything. i could make a video contradicting that by showing only intelligent americans and say that it is full of smart people.
"What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?"
-Beowulf
I think that politicians should be forced to live the life of a monk, totally dedicated to serving his people. He may not have any worldly possessions, he must live within the confides of a monastery (government building). and he must be fed meager rations. This is the best chance we have at creating a utopia not driven by greed but hope and love.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
qft very good ideas, i agree with ya 100% m8
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
it reminds me of barack obama a little. he wants to make everyone happy and live peaceful lives. unfortunately it's unrealistic since you will always have bad people.
the solution is fixing the media. i think the people are way too disillusioned and brainwashed and are manipulated so those in power get away with crimes much better. instead of waking up in the morning and watching news about what the f*ck britney spears is doing this time and actually watching news about the progress of those in power would help. infact, i say no more secrecy. leaders must be watched at all times and no secrets held from public view.
"What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?"
-Beowulf
Also, even a person fairly well versed in world events and geography can start to slip up when someone blindsides them with a camera and starts asking them all these question.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
People who don't concern themselves with politics shouldn't be voting.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
..... 'facepalm'
i responded to someone who said that already
Roger that, I jumped the gun a bit.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Most people that come out to bash democracy are having a temper tantrum. There is little point in bashing an idea without presenting an alternative. And an alternative is communism, dictatorship and so on...
That video is about something totally different, by the way...
That's even less true. Most of the Greek politicians were sophists. So...
Here is my answer to the question:
Yes American democracy has huge flaws, like pretty much any other political system in the world. But in my opinion that's not the main problem.
Me and my family originate from the Soviet Union and by moving to Canada I figured something out. The problem is not the political system but the human being. No matter the political system, the human being will always be greedy, lazy, mean etc etc. He will allways find ways to make profit on the backs of other human beings, to eliminate those who oppose him etc etc. If the human being had the will to progress, to understand, to forgive and to change all of those people in the video would have answered that the triangle has 3 sides. The world's situation would also be different. 800 millions wouldn't be dying of hunger and maybe we would have done something great as a specie.
The human being is capable of both good and bad things.....but does mostly the bad things. If we weren't greedy, capitalism would not even be a problem because large corporations would share their money with the poor. If people weren't lazy and had the will to learn and understand, they would all know where is Iraq on the world map. And so on..
There are exeptions. But proportions are of capital importance. And there are too few exeptions.
EDIT: Yea like Equinox said, the video is about something totally different btw.
ok then i shall edit my statement to: this is where democracy fails.
if you watch the entire thing you can see that that was most certainly not the only thing he asked
*btw Voxorb thank you for filling me in, i wasn't aware of that. I did however realize that their democracy was most certainly not perfect i was just using it as a rough example
anyways i agree, the human being is the problem. However if those willing to learn and then do the test to be able to vote that would root out those who were unwilling but who would normally vote. sort of like evolution, taking them out of the gene pool, or in this case out of the voting pool.
Democracy is a governmental system. Uneducated people are not generated by democracy.
is that a serious question lol?
i was saying that it fails because the people voting fail at voting... ie they are not informed and so instead of doing something positive they ultimately are able to vote for someone who is not good.
For example... party A is super SUPER xenophobic and keep to themselves (basically like the one in v for vendetta or 1984), and the other government is more relaxed more like what we are used to now. Now A decides to spread propaganda through the media and uneducated citizens then believe it without researching or confirming and just listen to small bits of what the media is saying and ultimately come to conclusions that arent true... like the world is going to end.. etc. (similiar to those in the video who have very very unenducated opinions, opinions forged through CNN)
so party A comes to power. Now if the idiots who voted for A had actually been smart and not failed at voting, and had done their duty by researching they would ultimately be spared.
So i suppose democracy in the sense of whoever gets more votes doesn't fail, just the great mass of uneducated humans makes it suffer/not work as well/degrades the overall goal of democracy which is the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. however when the populace is unable to know whats best for itself it ultimately fails in the goal it set for itself.
---
yes it is for real. that show does heaps of stuff for real. like on some summit thing in Australia they pretend to be the leaders of that country. link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoYpkcSyYiI