It's not that you can't dissagree, thats a right we all have. But what I read of (just about) everyone's response to Equinox's post was less dissagreeing and more attacking.
I stand by what I said.
I like to think of it as aggressively disagreeing.
First, you go into the military under false pretences. The military recruiters make it seem more like a camp than what it really is. They shove all of this money in your face and claim that they will pay for your college. Yeah they'll pay for your college, but you might have to deal with post traumatic stress disorder for the rest of your life, or go through college without a limb.
No one can possibly go into the military and believe they're putting themselves in no danger, it's bullshit you're making recruiters out to be lying scum bags.
Secondly, they tell you that they will teach you "structure" and "discipline" and that you are going to become a man. If anything it teaches you everything that is the opposite of individualism and integrity. It teaches you how to not stand up for yourself. Someone is going to tell you what to do every second of your life while your a member of the military and any disagreement will result in harsh punishment.
But the courage to do exactly that takes something less then a man? Your logic is screwed. I can't help but feel you've never met a single person in the military and you're getting your information from hippiesRintelligentantiwarindividuals.org.com. I can't decide whether to keep going with this, it might not be worth it because you'll most likely reply with "soldiers are robots" or something along those lines.
This is a great thread, and I see how good I have it. I hope we end this war soon, so the remaining soldiers can go back home. I got my register card from the government yesterday, and if we need a draft. I will proudly serve my country. Hopefully not many more soldiers will die, and no loved ones will feel pain anymore.
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
Aibo, my dad was a first class sergeant in the Army. He served in the Gulf War. Hes retired but still works for the army reserves at fort dix. My cousin is in the Air Force stationed in Japan. My grandfather was a Korean war veteren.
When someone tells you what to do every second of your life, when to wake up, how long you have to eat, and any disagreement results into punishment, what do you expect from them? If they dont agree with something are they going to voice themselves? I dont think so. Im just saying it ties right in with my argument earlier on how its unpatriotic to stand up to your country when you disagree with them.
And yes no one can believe that they are going into the military and think theres not some chance to be in a war. But this war has gone on for five years now. If you were an 18 year old kid who just joined the army and all of a sudden you're going to iraq. The next thing you know you're 23 and you havnt made any progress what so ever in a senseless war. And if John Mccain is elected president youll probably be there for even longer.
Oh and now that I mentioned John Mccain's name let me strike a point about him. He joined the Navy. He was at the bottom of his class at the Naval academy (and let me say it has shown throughout his campaign). The military decides to go to war. John Mccain is now given a choice. He can go over and fight in the war, or he can go to jail. John Mccain decides to fight in the war. He then is assigned to a certain mission. This certain mission requires him to go into a battle which is unfavorable to his survival. His plan gets shot down. He becomes a prisoner of war. The vietnamese held him there for 5 years, but were not going to kill him because of his fathers military rank. He tries to kill himself more than once. 5 years later they let him out, and all of a sudden he possesses the qualities to be a lawmaker as a senator, and he is qualified to be president of the united states. Most people credit this so his heroic story, but I dont know....maybe im missing something.
Thats fine, because her post was no disagreeing, and ALL attacking. Stop defending her.
I admit the Jackass comment was an attack but the rest doesnt (to me) seem like an attack.
Quote from "Explorer" »
Oh and now that I mentioned John Mccain's name let me strike a point about him. He joined the Navy. He was at the bottom of his class at the Naval academy (and let me say it has shown throughout his campaign). The military decides to go to war. John Mccain is now given a choice. He can go over and fight in the war, or he can go to jail. John Mccain decides to fight in the war. He then is assigned to a certain mission. This certain mission requires him to go into a battle which is unfavorable to his survival. His plan gets shot down. He becomes a prisoner of war. The vietnamese held him there for 5 years, but were not going to kill him because of his fathers military rank. He tries to kill himself more than once. 5 years later they let him out, and all of a sudden he possesses the qualities to be a lawmaker as a senator, and he is qualified to be president of the united states. Most people credit this so his heroic story, but I dont know....maybe im missing something.
The fact that he was in the Naval Acadamy, that really says something. I have a friend that's in the Naval Acadaamy and a friend in the Air Acadamy and it's simply amazing how mentally, psychologically, and physically hard it is to get to one of the military Acadamy's.
However, I never listen to someone about one canidate if they are clearly for another canidate. IE I wouldn't listen to you about McCain as you are clearly bias for Obama. And I wouldn't listen to a McCain supporter about Obama if they are clearly bias for McCain.
Though the Naval Acadamy thing, I will have to look into. If it's true, my opinion of him just went up a bit.
I admit the Jackass comment was an attack but the rest doesnt (to me) seem like an attack.
I don't believe any of the rest was an attack at all.
/sarcasm
Quote from "Equinox" »
Another, soldiers are better than civilians because they can endure horrible things, as well as do horrible things? Or what are you trying to say with this poster?
Soldiers are tools.
There is no reason to hate them, because they only do what they are told, but there is no reason to praise them, because they are just another part of society.
Just because their lives are sometimes harder than the lives of other people(hmm, debatable) it doesn't mean they are better than us. It also doesn't mean we cannot criticize them like we criticize any other profession.
Sorry, Carlos but what you bolded only sounds like stating an opinion. Just because her opinion is different than yours doesn't mean it's attacking anything. (BTW I don't agree with her either)
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"I'm like a dog chasing cars." - Joker, Dark Knight
Sorry, Carlos but what you bolded only sounds like stating an opinion. Just because her opinion is different than yours doesn't mean it's attacking anything. (BTW I don't agree with her either)
Your stupid.
That was an example of an opinion, does that mean its not attacking you? Of course its an attack. And I don't think you're stupid, you happen to be a quite intellegent man. But you guys defending her is like standing up with a white supremacist just because he does have that right to speech. Just because she can let her mouth flap and her stupidity out doesn't mean she should, or that its right, should be defended, and it definately doesn't mean it should be tolerated. Especially when she denounces the people that made the country she now lives in free, and have kept it free since 1776. Soldiers fight wars, and that's how this country started.
Ingratitude, ignorance, and absolute insensitivity. She trolls, creates conflict, and shows no remorse. And even more, she gets away with it because she's a mod. The biggest hypocrit I've known of. I'm sick of it.
That was an example of an opinion, does that mean its not attacking you? Of course its an attack. And I don't think you're stupid, you happen to be a quite intellegent man. But you guys defending her is like standing up with a white supremacist just because he does have that right to speech. Just because she can let her mouth flap and her stupidity out doesn't mean she should, or that its right, should be defended, and it definately doesn't mean it should be tolerated. Especially when she denounces the people that made the country she now lives in free, and have kept it free since 1776. Soldiers fight wars, and that's how this country started.
Ingratitude, ignorance, and absolute insensitivity. She trolls, creates conflict, and shows no remorse. And even more, she gets away with it because she's a mod. The biggest hypocrit I've known of. I'm sick of it.
It's attacking me because it is an insult. She wasn't insulting anyone. And just because her opinion's stupid doesn't mean it shouldn't be defended. Everyone has the equal right for their opinion to be heard and considered.
Im not saying that soldiers shouldn't be honored but if she doesn't think they should than that's her opinion, who cares.
And she creates conflict yes, but you react to it.
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"I'm like a dog chasing cars." - Joker, Dark Knight
Carlo, just sit back in your chair, close your eyes and say ,"Equinox is a psycho". At that point you'll fully understand why she says the things she does. You'll feel much more relaxed and can continue your day. It worked for me.
It's attacking me because it is an insult. She wasn't insulting anyone. And just because her opinion's stupid doesn't mean it shouldn't be defended. Everyone has the equal right for their opinion to be heard and considered.
Im not saying that soldiers shouldn't be honored but if she doesn't think they should than that's her opinion, who cares.
And she creates conflict yes, but you react to it.
She's insulting, and even I can see it. How would you like to be called a tool? Or that you should not be praised for risking your life for your country? That is one of the biggest insults I can imagine throwing at them. They don't get paid much, and there aren't many benefits to it. They are injured, crippled, or tramatized from the whole thing. All they really get is a pat in the back, and the pride of having done it for their country. That there are people back home who will clap as they get off the plane, or that will salute them, someone that wil honor them in some way even if its just a knowing nod. Maybe you don't get it, but my uncle came back from Iraq and he didn't find much of this. His own family didn't honor him because they were against the war. My mom was the only relative of his that honored him, that even though she disagreed with the war she hugged him and told him he did a good job.
I'm not going to ramble on about that anymore, you should already have an idea of what I'm talking about. And if you don't, go watch the first Rambo from start to finish. And if you still don't get it, find a rope and a nice tall tree.
I never said her opinions shouldn't be heard or considered. I clearly stated that she can say what she wants. Whether she should, or whether we should not say anything about it is an entirely different case. The same principle has applied to me so many times when I make a pro-war thread, or a pro-Bush thread, or the Scientology thread, or a pro-conservative thread. A majority of those threads was me vs everyone else. No one defended my points, no one made it fair, it was 1 person (me) having to fight off everyone else who contributed to the thread. She deserves the worse.
It's an opinion stated in a thread dedicated to them. Its similar to going to a military funeral and talking about how the soldier does not deserve something this nice.
She is stupid, I call it out, and you are reacting. To me.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
Carlo, just sit back in your chair, close your eyes and say ,"Equinox is a psycho". At that point you'll fully understand why she says the things she does. You'll feel much more relaxed and can continue your day. It worked for me.
Or! I can do something about it. The rest of my day goes on as usual regardless of what happens here. However this forum is suffering because of her.
I don't think she was meaning tool in the definition you were using. (Mind you I had to look up what "Tool" means at Urbandictionary.com. x.x)
As for the Free Speach. Free Speach defends the most hanous of NeoNazi speach. The founding fathers just fought a war against an empire that had limited there free speach and they wanted to make sure it was clear that anyone should be allowed to say anything about anyone or anything. Any less and it's simply unAmerican. It's 18th century British Colonies. I don't think anyone here wants to loose that right, but by limiting someone, you are attacking the core of the Constitution, even if you think that what that person is saying is wrong or stupid. I am sorry if you disagree but that is her right to do so.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
I never said her opinions shouldn't be heard or considered. I clearly stated that she can say what she wants. Whether she should, or whether we should not say anything about it is an entirely different case. The same principle has applied to me so many times when I make a pro-war thread, or a pro-Bush thread, or the Scientology thread, or a pro-conservative thread. A majority of those threads was me vs everyone else. No one defended my points, no one made it fair, it was 1 person (me) having to fight off everyone else who contributed to the thread. She deserves the worse.
My deepest appologies. I would of spoken out for your right to be pro-Bush if I had known about it. Everyone has the right to express themselves any time any place and anywhere. *Hugs.* Forgive me?
I don't think she was meaning tool in the definition you were using. (Mind you I had to look up what "Tool" means at Urbandictionary.com. x.x)
As for the Free Speach. Free Speach defends the most hanous of NeoNazi speach. The founding fathers just fought a war against an empire that had limited there free speach and they wanted to make sure it was clear that anyone should be allowed to say anything about anyone or anything. Any less and it's simply unAmerican. It's 18th century British Colonies. I don't think anyone here wants to loose that right, but by limiting someone, you are attacking the core of the Constitution, even if you think that what that person is saying is wrong or stupid. I am sorry if you disagree but that is her right to do so.
My deepest appologies. I would of spoken out for your right to be pro-Bush if I had known about it. Everyone has the right to express themselves any time any place and anywhere. *Hugs.* Forgive me?
There was no need for my rights to be spoken. Debates and flame wars are not to be moderated by political correctness. And didn't you read my post before starting yours? She has the entire freedom to say what she thinks. I have the freedom to tell her what I think of what she thinks. And you guys are trying to stop me, or for me to be nicer. That is limiting my free speech right?
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I like to think of it as aggressively disagreeing.
No one can possibly go into the military and believe they're putting themselves in no danger, it's bullshit you're making recruiters out to be lying scum bags.
But the courage to do exactly that takes something less then a man? Your logic is screwed. I can't help but feel you've never met a single person in the military and you're getting your information from hippiesRintelligentantiwarindividuals.org.com. I can't decide whether to keep going with this, it might not be worth it because you'll most likely reply with "soldiers are robots" or something along those lines.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
When someone tells you what to do every second of your life, when to wake up, how long you have to eat, and any disagreement results into punishment, what do you expect from them? If they dont agree with something are they going to voice themselves? I dont think so. Im just saying it ties right in with my argument earlier on how its unpatriotic to stand up to your country when you disagree with them.
And yes no one can believe that they are going into the military and think theres not some chance to be in a war. But this war has gone on for five years now. If you were an 18 year old kid who just joined the army and all of a sudden you're going to iraq. The next thing you know you're 23 and you havnt made any progress what so ever in a senseless war. And if John Mccain is elected president youll probably be there for even longer.
I admit the Jackass comment was an attack but the rest doesnt (to me) seem like an attack.
The fact that he was in the Naval Acadamy, that really says something. I have a friend that's in the Naval Acadaamy and a friend in the Air Acadamy and it's simply amazing how mentally, psychologically, and physically hard it is to get to one of the military Acadamy's.
However, I never listen to someone about one canidate if they are clearly for another canidate. IE I wouldn't listen to you about McCain as you are clearly bias for Obama. And I wouldn't listen to a McCain supporter about Obama if they are clearly bias for McCain.
Though the Naval Acadamy thing, I will have to look into. If it's true, my opinion of him just went up a bit.
I don't believe any of the rest was an attack at all.
/sarcasm
Your stupid.
That was an example of an opinion, does that mean its not attacking you? Of course its an attack. And I don't think you're stupid, you happen to be a quite intellegent man. But you guys defending her is like standing up with a white supremacist just because he does have that right to speech. Just because she can let her mouth flap and her stupidity out doesn't mean she should, or that its right, should be defended, and it definately doesn't mean it should be tolerated. Especially when she denounces the people that made the country she now lives in free, and have kept it free since 1776. Soldiers fight wars, and that's how this country started.
Ingratitude, ignorance, and absolute insensitivity. She trolls, creates conflict, and shows no remorse. And even more, she gets away with it because she's a mod. The biggest hypocrit I've known of. I'm sick of it.
Regardless of where she comes from, she lives HERE now. she should show some goddamn gratitude.
It's attacking me because it is an insult. She wasn't insulting anyone. And just because her opinion's stupid doesn't mean it shouldn't be defended. Everyone has the equal right for their opinion to be heard and considered.
Im not saying that soldiers shouldn't be honored but if she doesn't think they should than that's her opinion, who cares.
And she creates conflict yes, but you react to it.
She's insulting, and even I can see it. How would you like to be called a tool? Or that you should not be praised for risking your life for your country? That is one of the biggest insults I can imagine throwing at them. They don't get paid much, and there aren't many benefits to it. They are injured, crippled, or tramatized from the whole thing. All they really get is a pat in the back, and the pride of having done it for their country. That there are people back home who will clap as they get off the plane, or that will salute them, someone that wil honor them in some way even if its just a knowing nod. Maybe you don't get it, but my uncle came back from Iraq and he didn't find much of this. His own family didn't honor him because they were against the war. My mom was the only relative of his that honored him, that even though she disagreed with the war she hugged him and told him he did a good job.
I'm not going to ramble on about that anymore, you should already have an idea of what I'm talking about. And if you don't, go watch the first Rambo from start to finish. And if you still don't get it, find a rope and a nice tall tree.
I never said her opinions shouldn't be heard or considered. I clearly stated that she can say what she wants. Whether she should, or whether we should not say anything about it is an entirely different case. The same principle has applied to me so many times when I make a pro-war thread, or a pro-Bush thread, or the Scientology thread, or a pro-conservative thread. A majority of those threads was me vs everyone else. No one defended my points, no one made it fair, it was 1 person (me) having to fight off everyone else who contributed to the thread. She deserves the worse.
It's an opinion stated in a thread dedicated to them. Its similar to going to a military funeral and talking about how the soldier does not deserve something this nice.
She is stupid, I call it out, and you are reacting. To me.
Or! I can do something about it. The rest of my day goes on as usual regardless of what happens here. However this forum is suffering because of her.
And I was point that out. Sorry if I came accross as if I'm angry.
As for the Free Speach. Free Speach defends the most hanous of NeoNazi speach. The founding fathers just fought a war against an empire that had limited there free speach and they wanted to make sure it was clear that anyone should be allowed to say anything about anyone or anything. Any less and it's simply unAmerican. It's 18th century British Colonies. I don't think anyone here wants to loose that right, but by limiting someone, you are attacking the core of the Constitution, even if you think that what that person is saying is wrong or stupid. I am sorry if you disagree but that is her right to do so.
My deepest appologies. I would of spoken out for your right to be pro-Bush if I had known about it. Everyone has the right to express themselves any time any place and anywhere. *Hugs.* Forgive me?
There was no need for my rights to be spoken. Debates and flame wars are not to be moderated by political correctness. And didn't you read my post before starting yours? She has the entire freedom to say what she thinks. I have the freedom to tell her what I think of what she thinks. And you guys are trying to stop me, or for me to be nicer. That is limiting my free speech right?