Stone, you are entitled to your opinion, but I have noticed that you always side with the media.
I noticed that we were weak in the airports the time. I used to travel a lot with my family. They never did crap, they just looked at your luggage and let you past the metal detector. Now they do way more at the checkpoints. I am not on the media all the time.
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
there was no plane pieces found from the crash in the pentagon [B]or crash in pennsylvania.[/B']
That I have a little problem with. You see I come from a quiet little town, about 5 miles outside of where flight 93 went down. Their were pieces, just not large fragments as in other plane crashes. Unlike other crashes this crash was intended and happend at over 450 mph, combined with all the jet fuel. I personally know so many people that seen the plane going down and even crashing. Infact my friends dad was one of the first people to get to the crash site before any police or FBI arrived. My boss was working on the lake when it happend and seen it go down. I can assure you that the plane DID crash.
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If you ever meet a hafling and a hungry dragon you dont have to outrun the dragon, you only have to outrun the hafling.
About a week ago a bunch of my classmates got into the whole conspiracy thing. They found alot of compelling evidence actually, including a very credible and persuasive video. The video looked at very simple and actual facts, things like how there was no plane pieces found from the crash in the pentagon or crash in pennsylvania. Also the hole in the pentagon was not nearly large enough for a plane. There was alot of other evidence, including some about british broadcasters knowing about some of the building demolishes around the world trade centers before they even happened.
I can try to find it on youtube or somewhere and give a link for those interested.
Thats probabaly zeitgeist, I opened a thread about it a while back but everyone I talked to just couldnt seem to grasp the overall concept I was trying to convey. But I have proof that we America is trying to take over the world!
As Shere Khaan pointed out, conspiracies of this magnitude are so astoundingly huge that the probability of nothing conclusive being released to the public is very small. Even Black Projects leak out, but they are later proved to be 100% existing.
Quote from "Tale" »
The video looked at very simple and actual facts, things like how there was no plane pieces found from the crash in the pentagon or crash in pennsylvania. Also the hole in the pentagon was not nearly large enough for a plane.
That doesn't seem like simple facts to me. I don't know how you calculate the demolition of a building, but I would assume you need close to all facts if you want to make an accurate model. Which they probably didn't have. They wouldn't know at what speed, angle and exact direction the plane crashed into the Pentagon. I would also assume that the specific designs for the Pentagon aren't public either, so the different sized hole could be due to calculation errors or faulty information.
Not saying it is, just that it could.
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things like how there was no plane pieces found from the crash in the pentagon
Thanks to the Loose Change Guide
Quote from "Murderface" »
Thats probabaly zeitgeist, I opened a thread about it a while back but everyone I talked to just couldnt seem to grasp the overall concept I was trying to convey. But I have proof that we America is trying to take over the world!
Don't assure me, I was merely describing a video that my class was ranting about.
That doesn't seem like simple facts to me. I don't know how you calculate the demolition of a building, but I would assume you need close to all facts if you want to make an accurate model. Which they probably didn't have. They wouldn't know at what speed, angle and exact direction the plane crashed into the Pentagon. I would also assume that the specific designs for the Pentagon aren't public either, so the different sized hole could be due to calculation errors or faulty information.
Not saying it is, just that it could.
The strangest thing about the hole in the pentagon was that there was no room for the wings. It was as if the wings did not exist on the plane. At least that is what was pointed out by that video.
Alot of this comes down to how much you trust the media. Unless you were actually in the government and knew what was being said and done at the time of 9/11, then there is no REAL way to know what happened. A plane really could've (as reported earlier) crashed in pennsylvania, but how do we know the hijackers weren't hired or forced to do this?
Anything can be questioned, the answer you give comes down to what you believe and who you will trust to give you the information.
As quoted by one of my more favorite games, "Nothing is true, Everything is permitted." I think I would altar it slightly and say that "Anything CAN be true, but only when permitted."
We could also probably remember another great quote, "Those who control the present, control the past, and therefore control the future." Our government controls the present through books, information, and media. Thus they can change the past as they wish. In 20 years, it's possible that we will all believe that it was the chinese who really committed 9/11, then we can start a war with them too.
In any case, all this comes down to what (or who) you are willing to believe, even pictures posted on the internet can be fabricated, altered, or made up by someone.
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Only once they understand will they know what the truth really is.
This is my Tale.
Try making your own Leap Of Faith... You might save more than just your life.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
The strangest thing about the hole in the pentagon was that there was no room for the wings. It was as if the wings did not exist on the plane. At least that is what was pointed out by that video.
The wings are pretty light-weight, and could probably simply have ben ripped off from the hull upon impact. But I'm just guessing
Quote from "Tale" »
In any case, all this comes down to what (or who) you are willing to believe, even pictures posted on the internet can be fabricated, altered, or made up by someone.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
But Phrozendragon is from Sweden and I'm from Canada. We aren't all from the same government and media.
The strangest thing about the hole in the pentagon was that there was no room for the wings. It was as if the wings did not exist on the plane. At least that is what was pointed out by that video.
I believe the wings were ripped off at the impact and they actually did leave marks on the Pentagon, I'll try and find the pic.
Alot of this comes down to how much you trust the media.
Or in Darkjays case, the many people he knows that saw it themselves.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I like how they say that buildings can't collapse due to fire, but the Twin Towers did. They give evidence showing several buildings on fire for hours and that they did not collapse. Well fire alone won't cause that much damage to the frame of a building, a plane crash would cause enough damage with the addition of fire to make a building collapse (broken beams and cracked beams with the addition of fire melting the steel beams). So then they give evidence of the bomber that crashed into the Empire State building and it didn't collapse. However, the Empire State building's frame is made of mostly cement which will not melt.
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"I'm like a dog chasing cars." - Joker, Dark Knight
If the Twin Towers did not fall down, then there would have been more people who would not have died. It was a great tragedy in our history. Almost like pearl Harbor, but Worse in my taking of it. How those people got crushed and burned to death. Horrible way to go, and if you were still alive in that rubble, you would be hurting all over. Just a bad way to go I say.
When you guys saw it on tv, what did you guys think it was. Before they actually said what it was.
I thought it was a movie when I woke up to go to school, then while I was at school they showed on the tv's and then I realized it did happen.
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
The teachers were all running around and kept going to the library that was off-limits that day. The more intelligent of us were able to coerce very little from the teachers and finally were able to conclude that something bad had happened to the nation, but we really didn't know what had happened until we got home around 4 p.m.
When we asked them why they didn't tell us about it the next day, their reason was because we couldn't do anything so it was pointless to tell us about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only once they understand will they know what the truth really is.
This is my Tale.
Try making your own Leap Of Faith... You might save more than just your life.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
When we asked them why they didn't tell us about it the next day, their reason was because we couldn't do anything so it was pointless to tell us about it.
Riiight
I myself was at home happily watching cartoons when mom came home from work and told me to switch to the news. Since we're 6 hours before NYC, I almost knew of it immediately.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I myself was at home happily watching cartoons when mom came home from work and told me to switch to the news. Since we're 6 hours before NYC, I almost knew of it immediately.
So you saw it in Sweden? I did not know that ic could have traveled that far, but I guess I was wrong. Always got to pick on the noobs eh.:D
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
I'm not sure whether any government would do such a blatant thing for some oil. I simply don't wanna believe it. On the other hand, I'm totally convinced that the moonlanding was faked.
LOL, sorry, I laughed a bit at that.
You actually think this was all about oil? If they planned this as a conspiracy oil was just a side note that got the high government officials support of the oil industry and therefore support of many other corporations. If you know how the U.S. government is set up, how people have reacted to 9/11, and the bills passed since 9/11, then you might see how a conspiracy like this actually seemed like a smart move for the hot shots that make the decisions.
9/11 gave the president reason to pass bills like the Patriot Act, and with the now rampant fear of terrorism the American citizens were quite willing to sacrifice some privacy for what they believed to be protection. This incident also gave strong rise to FEMA, which despite how badly they seem to work, has the ability to do nearly anything.
FEMA actually has concentration camps set up in America just waiting to imprison people, they have full right to imprison anyone without trial and claim that they are a terrorist. On top of that people are putting much more faith into the government, opening the ultimate opportunity for a dictatorship. The government is set up so that in a national emergency the president has full ability to SUSPEND the Constitution, BYPASS the Senate and Congress, Create any laws that he/she feels necessary, and do absolutely anything with the military until he/she feels that the crisis is ended and returns that power.
9/11 gave the government control of the corporations through oil, it gave them the loyalty of the citizens, installed the fear of terrorism, and passed some key bills like the Patriot Act. America is very truly just one national emergency away from become a dicatorship, and sadly, unless senators/congressman attempt to change the laws and stand up to the rest of the government, there is nothing any of us can do (except rebel). Even more sadly though, people are more than willing to go with this in hopes of eliminating terrorism, which can't be eliminated.
It doesn't come from some source in the middle east, or some race; it is an idea. Terrorism can come from anywhere, anyone, and at anytime.
Some of you might argue with me on this, but I have discussed all this with my Government teacher and read this information from the news and internet.
Of all the sources available I can only remember one that details about FEMA...
credible or not, I actually have heard of 4 concentration camps within my state, all of them up and operational.
This is only a matter of time, for reference of how a dictatorship can rise out of a republic in a similar matter look up information about Rome. For plans that are similar to what are happening, look up Octavian (Julius Ceasar's nephew I think, who was the first true dictator of Rome) and his First and Second Settlements.
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Only once they understand will they know what the truth really is.
This is my Tale.
Try making your own Leap Of Faith... You might save more than just your life.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
I don't think I understand why you are quoting me, or what are you trying to say...
Sorry for the delay, I quoted you because I was agreeing to the improbability of it; but expanding on it and adding the human error part to explain why i think large conspiracies are much rarer than people think.
Quote from "Calyx" »
I'm not sure whether any government would do such a blatant thing for some oil. I simply don't wanna believe it. On the other hand, I'm totally convinced that the moonlanding was faked.
The funny thing about this is that there was hard evidence of them going and bringing back moon rock that has been studied by numerous scientific institutions. Where are the camera people blowing the whistle? Why do none of the astronauts blow the whistle? To make a production that good would take a decent crew. Just look at how many "whistle-blowers" there are for roswell, and not one for the moon landing? Strange...
Ask yourself this question, why is all the evidence pointing to a fake landing on the moon covered in the interpretation of photos that have other explanations or theoretical conditions that is not supported by scientific evidence?
Do you believe the only reason for not going back to the Moon in the past 35 or something years was merely financial? Do you believe humanity possessed the technology in 1969 to take us to the Moon and more importantly BACK to Earth?
Yes. After all, shooting rockets to the moon is costly, doesn't give us any benefit except more rocks that we already have. Couple that with less interest from the society, and the trips quickly stop.
Moonrocks aren't even close to hard evidence, they look like regular rocks
That has no bearing on their validity whatsoever. A scientific study would check what amounts of trace minerals it contained, study its composition and compare that to what is found on earth. Looks fall way down on the evidence list.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
The wings on aircraft double as a fuel tank. Being as the plane was bound for California and only flew for an hour the tanks were full. Soon as they impacted a solid object they would very quickly break and burn all the jet fuel.
As for fire not being able to collapse a building, no it wouldnt by itself. Unless that fire is being fed by burning jet fuel at nearly 1800*F. Not to mention the major design flaw of the WTC towers. It was build as a hollow tube. The only support colums on the inside where located around the many elevator shafts.
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If you ever meet a hafling and a hungry dragon you dont have to outrun the dragon, you only have to outrun the hafling.
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
That I have a little problem with. You see I come from a quiet little town, about 5 miles outside of where flight 93 went down. Their were pieces, just not large fragments as in other plane crashes. Unlike other crashes this crash was intended and happend at over 450 mph, combined with all the jet fuel. I personally know so many people that seen the plane going down and even crashing. Infact my friends dad was one of the first people to get to the crash site before any police or FBI arrived. My boss was working on the lake when it happend and seen it go down. I can assure you that the plane DID crash.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
That doesn't seem like simple facts to me. I don't know how you calculate the demolition of a building, but I would assume you need close to all facts if you want to make an accurate model. Which they probably didn't have. They wouldn't know at what speed, angle and exact direction the plane crashed into the Pentagon. I would also assume that the specific designs for the Pentagon aren't public either, so the different sized hole could be due to calculation errors or faulty information.
Not saying it is, just that it could.
Thanks to the Loose Change Guide
And your proof is?...
Don't assure me, I was merely describing a video that my class was ranting about.
The strangest thing about the hole in the pentagon was that there was no room for the wings. It was as if the wings did not exist on the plane. At least that is what was pointed out by that video.
Alot of this comes down to how much you trust the media. Unless you were actually in the government and knew what was being said and done at the time of 9/11, then there is no REAL way to know what happened. A plane really could've (as reported earlier) crashed in pennsylvania, but how do we know the hijackers weren't hired or forced to do this?
Anything can be questioned, the answer you give comes down to what you believe and who you will trust to give you the information.
As quoted by one of my more favorite games, "Nothing is true, Everything is permitted." I think I would altar it slightly and say that "Anything CAN be true, but only when permitted."
We could also probably remember another great quote, "Those who control the present, control the past, and therefore control the future." Our government controls the present through books, information, and media. Thus they can change the past as they wish. In 20 years, it's possible that we will all believe that it was the chinese who really committed 9/11, then we can start a war with them too.
In any case, all this comes down to what (or who) you are willing to believe, even pictures posted on the internet can be fabricated, altered, or made up by someone.
This is my Tale.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
Of course. But that's almost always true.
I believe the wings were ripped off at the impact and they actually did leave marks on the Pentagon, I'll try and find the pic.
Or in Darkjays case, the many people he knows that saw it themselves.
This is my Tale.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
When you guys saw it on tv, what did you guys think it was. Before they actually said what it was.
I thought it was a movie when I woke up to go to school, then while I was at school they showed on the tv's and then I realized it did happen.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
The teachers were all running around and kept going to the library that was off-limits that day. The more intelligent of us were able to coerce very little from the teachers and finally were able to conclude that something bad had happened to the nation, but we really didn't know what had happened until we got home around 4 p.m.
When we asked them why they didn't tell us about it the next day, their reason was because we couldn't do anything so it was pointless to tell us about it.
This is my Tale.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
I myself was at home happily watching cartoons when mom came home from work and told me to switch to the news. Since we're 6 hours before NYC, I almost knew of it immediately.
So you saw it in Sweden? I did not know that ic could have traveled that far, but I guess I was wrong. Always got to pick on the noobs eh.:D
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
LOL, sorry, I laughed a bit at that.
You actually think this was all about oil? If they planned this as a conspiracy oil was just a side note that got the high government officials support of the oil industry and therefore support of many other corporations. If you know how the U.S. government is set up, how people have reacted to 9/11, and the bills passed since 9/11, then you might see how a conspiracy like this actually seemed like a smart move for the hot shots that make the decisions.
9/11 gave the president reason to pass bills like the Patriot Act, and with the now rampant fear of terrorism the American citizens were quite willing to sacrifice some privacy for what they believed to be protection. This incident also gave strong rise to FEMA, which despite how badly they seem to work, has the ability to do nearly anything.
FEMA actually has concentration camps set up in America just waiting to imprison people, they have full right to imprison anyone without trial and claim that they are a terrorist. On top of that people are putting much more faith into the government, opening the ultimate opportunity for a dictatorship. The government is set up so that in a national emergency the president has full ability to SUSPEND the Constitution, BYPASS the Senate and Congress, Create any laws that he/she feels necessary, and do absolutely anything with the military until he/she feels that the crisis is ended and returns that power.
9/11 gave the government control of the corporations through oil, it gave them the loyalty of the citizens, installed the fear of terrorism, and passed some key bills like the Patriot Act. America is very truly just one national emergency away from become a dicatorship, and sadly, unless senators/congressman attempt to change the laws and stand up to the rest of the government, there is nothing any of us can do (except rebel). Even more sadly though, people are more than willing to go with this in hopes of eliminating terrorism, which can't be eliminated.
It doesn't come from some source in the middle east, or some race; it is an idea. Terrorism can come from anywhere, anyone, and at anytime.
Some of you might argue with me on this, but I have discussed all this with my Government teacher and read this information from the news and internet.
Of all the sources available I can only remember one that details about FEMA...
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm
credible or not, I actually have heard of 4 concentration camps within my state, all of them up and operational.
This is only a matter of time, for reference of how a dictatorship can rise out of a republic in a similar matter look up information about Rome. For plans that are similar to what are happening, look up Octavian (Julius Ceasar's nephew I think, who was the first true dictator of Rome) and his First and Second Settlements.
This is my Tale.
Strawman? Not so much anymore, I'm just stating my opinion.
Sorry for the delay, I quoted you because I was agreeing to the improbability of it; but expanding on it and adding the human error part to explain why i think large conspiracies are much rarer than people think.
The funny thing about this is that there was hard evidence of them going and bringing back moon rock that has been studied by numerous scientific institutions. Where are the camera people blowing the whistle? Why do none of the astronauts blow the whistle? To make a production that good would take a decent crew. Just look at how many "whistle-blowers" there are for roswell, and not one for the moon landing? Strange...
Ask yourself this question, why is all the evidence pointing to a fake landing on the moon covered in the interpretation of photos that have other explanations or theoretical conditions that is not supported by scientific evidence?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Landing#Moon_landing_hoax_accusations
Also, I'd like to provide this link and the explanation of what the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_Experiment
That has no bearing on their validity whatsoever. A scientific study would check what amounts of trace minerals it contained, study its composition and compare that to what is found on earth. Looks fall way down on the evidence list.
As for fire not being able to collapse a building, no it wouldnt by itself. Unless that fire is being fed by burning jet fuel at nearly 1800*F. Not to mention the major design flaw of the WTC towers. It was build as a hollow tube. The only support colums on the inside where located around the many elevator shafts.