How do you guys feel about scientology? I think its completely bogus, and as a psychology/philosophy major I am frankly offended about their views any form of psychiatry or psychology. Watch this clip and look at how ridiculous this interview gets (especially from 3 minutes in the clip is only about 5 minutes long).
Also, Tom Cruise's latest interview is downright creepy. He claims that when he sees an accident if feels inclined to help, because he thinks he is the only person that can actually help. The whole thing is just bizzare.
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive. Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin) ~~us West Ladder~~
The scientologist was calling psychology a pseudoscience.... And he keeps avoiding the goddamn question
Edit- Nice picture OTC but I dont think its really about Scientology
i guess u didnt get it.. lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive. Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin) ~~us West Ladder~~
"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."
- L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology and Science Fiction Author...)
EDIT: Just to speak up as the Devil's Advocate here... Psychology is officially considered an ART not a Science. Calling it a science is wrong.
I think psychology is somewhat science. There are definite patterns to human behavior that are overall consistent to the point of needing to identify and map those patterns. But psychology usually gets a bad rep cause of the way the media usually portrays them.
Ok. My father is a scientologist, and it saved his marriage with my mom. Reason for it is that his family was so hateful of her, and always doing things to piss her off, that one day she had stroke of some sort, can't remember. She was taking a bath, and then she couldn't see, or move. My dad came home and found her, dressed her, and took her to the hospital. She recovered after some treatment, but she had enough. She was going to leave him. Then they found Scientology, and my dad went to it. He took a two week course, I went with him, and when we came back he was so much better in all ways. More patient, he was clearer, he began making more money, it saved my family. But enough of what it did for me, time to tell you guys my own take on Scientology and give you some facts.
Scientology. "The study of truth". They aren't here to take over the planet or anything. Alot of people misconstrue that. Scientology is the belief that we are all spiritual beings. When life is given to a baby, there is always a spirit there to take hold. We go through life, and at the end we die in our bodies, but we still exist, and repeat the same pattern.
Alot of people will ask "then why don't we remember our past life?". I know that something prevents us from accessing that information and/or memories, I just don't know enough about it to tell you why. I do know however that there are plenty of people who have done it. There was a news story a while back where a woman in Ohio or something, in her 30's, was having wierd dreams about a place in Germany. Over time she wrote down whatever she could find from her dreams. She wrote down streets, names, how many children she had, anything she could remember. Then she started searching for the name she knew as hers in her dreams. Long story short she found her children from her past life, they were all in their 80's. She met them, and most of them denied it until she started reminding them of things only they could know, personal memories that no one else but they could know about.
In Scientology, they help you get rid of angrums, which are bad memories that clog us up. The simplest example would be that you had a girlfriend/boyfriend and one day they hurt you real bad. Since then you are very cautious, or even unwilling to start relationships with others because of that past event. Scientology helps you get rid of that stuff, by reliving it, and it doesn't only stand for your consciousness, but also the things that go on in your subconsciousness, and even past lives. You are put into a kind of hypnosis state, you can stop it anytime you want, and they help you go deep into your past. My dad attended one, and he told me a man no older than 30 was experiencing Vietnam all over again.
Angrums clog you, they slow us down. They are like the random files that are scattered all over the hard drive, and we have to go and delete them. Soon as we do, we run faster. There are many ways to take care of angrums, Scientology is the only place I know of that specifically targets them. You don't have to believe in Scientology to go there either, and you don't have to pay them every other month or whatever. If you do want to donate money to them, thats your own thing. The reason they price courses and stuff is because it does cost money, and from what I've seen its worth way more than what its priced at.
That is a bit of knowledge for you guys. Also, Scientology hates psychiatry. They absolutely hate the giving of medicine to cure any little thing. Instead of fixing the problem, medicine will only suppress it.
I am not a Scientologist. I do see however that it holds water, alot of it actually. Knowledge is power, they offer alot of it even if I don't call myself one of them. I see time and time again, internet or even on the tv that Scientology is twisted to be a crazy cult, that Tom Cruise is supposedly second in command, or even that Tom Cruise this and that. Leave the guy alone, he's done nothing wrong.
The only thing I have to say, don't trust the media. Find out for yourself, research it. The world sees Scientology as a risk to christianity, and therefore they will slander it as much as they can.
This video shows Tom Cruise. Don't just look at how he says things, or where they lead. Pay attention to the content of his words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY
To be totally honest, I know little of Scientology aside from what I've seen from that South Park episode, clips from YouTube featuring extremely defensive and pretentious Scientology members, and Tom Cruise's face. And so making fun of Scientology is just kind of a part time hobby of mine. It does bother me though the way they openly criticize the use of medications. As if it's impossible for a sick person to have a chemical imbalance in their brains and that the right medications can greatly help correct the imbalance.
I think it's the way Scientologists handle criticisms is what makes me dislike them. They're act so insecure about it. And sometimes it's never enough for people to believe in something. They need others to know that they believe in something. But when an individual's faith is strong enough, they are content to believe in what they do for their own sakes, not others.
I agree maybe with the criticism response part, but they do believe in something. I was just saying that you don't need to believe what they do in order to take courses or anything. If you want to join Scientology that is your thing, and if you don't you won't get kicked out.
As for the medicine part, I do agree with that. Medication does not solve the problem, or else you would be able to stop taking it and not go back to the way you were. I think that there may be such things as chemical imbalances, but those are temporary such as post-parton (is that how its spelled) depression. As for other depressions and things, I disagree that medication is the best route, or should be a route at all. Just like he said, there are vitamins, exercises, ways to handle anything, without using mind-altering drugs. If I am depressed, why is medication going to work for me if I'll get depressed again once I get off it? I've been depressed, and the best if not the only way to get out of it is to want to get out it, to find reasons to be happy again.
There are commercials for medicine that treats social anxiety disorder, aka being shy. You shouldn't treat it with drugs, you should get a friend and go out and just hang out, learn how to interact around others. Not swallow some pills. Same for almost anything. For people that can't sleep, try excercising, reading, stuff that will tire you out physically as well as mentally. Just like Outsiders, when Ponyboy was having those dreams about his parents.
As for the medicine part, I do agree with that. Medication does not solve the problem, or else you would be able to stop taking it and not go back to the way you were. I think that there may be such things as chemical imbalances, but those are temporary such as post-parton (is that how its spelled) depression.
There are truly schizophrenic people who need drugs. There are clinically depressed and anxious people who need drugs because of an imbalance in dopamine and seratonin.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
As for other depressions and things, I disagree that medication is the best route
Think of it more like not being the only route. I take meds for my anxiety and depression. I've had both ever since I began adolescence. My body never handled the changes very well. My anxiety is more debilitating than my depression though. And without my meds, I can have a much more difficult time. I can honestly say this because I've gone long periods of time with and without my drugs. People who know me can tell when I've been off my meds. There are symptoms that people experience when they are nervous and anxious. Those symptoms are exponential for me and can disrupt my daily life. My meds help manage those symptoms. So you can see why I get a little ticked off when Tom Cruise's face is on the tv saying how these drugs are bullshit and if we could only be as well-balanced as he, then none of us would need drugs. I know he is not explicitly saying that, but that's the basic message that I get when he and other renownded Scientologists talk about how they feel drugs and psychiatrists are not the answer and that Scientology is.
But when I say that medication is not the only route, that's because it isn't. Most people do best with their medications when they are also getting therapy. Because the problem is not only a chemical one, but a cognitive one as well. And a the right therapist can tremendously help a patient identify their problems, compartmentalize them, manage them, or whatever else may needs to be done with their mental problems.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
If I am depressed, why is medication going to work for me if I'll get depressed again once I get off it?
I think a lot of people get depression and sadness mixed up. Depression is hardly mere sadness. It is a totally lack of motivation that never truly goes away, it makes it difficult to focus on anything. It exacerbates compulsive tendencies. It makes a person just lie there all day without the will to get up to do anything. It makes someone lie awake all night in bed because they are consistently riddled with insomnia. I remember this commercial for an anti-depressant showing all these different kinds of depressed people and one of them was a woman in the grocery store just walking around looking for something to buy. She didn't know what she wanted to buy, she just knew she needed to buy something; anything. And I laughed at that cause that is so one of the things I do when my depression is particularly bad.
The thing is Carloseus, you are probably just fortunate enough to not have suffered from any form of clinical depression or anxiety disorder. And it is also likely that people like Tom Cruise have never suffered from it either. Just like I have never suffered from schizophrenia. But I've know schizoprenics before and I've seen them on and off their medications and I would never have the audacity to tell someone with a mental disorder to just walk it off. It is too easy for people to dismiss other people's mental disorders. And telling them they really don't need their meds is a method of such dismissal.
I'm not saying there aren't people out there who should try not taking meds, because there are. I've had months at a time where I felt I had made such progress in therapy and with taking my meds that I could experiment with lowering my dosage and even stop taking them completely. And I was proud of myself whenever I was able to do that. But eventually I would regress and would need to get back on my meds because as much as I may make progress, this is still a problem that I will have for the rest of my life. Medication and therapy is how I manage it.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
There are commercials for medicine that treats social anxiety disorder, aka being shy.
Again, you may be underestimating the disorder. Being shy is a symptom of social anxiety disorder, not the equivalent of it.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
You shouldn't treat it with drugs, you should get a friend and go out and just hang out, learn how to interact around others. Not swallow some pills. Same for almost anything. For people that can't sleep, try excercising, reading, stuff that will tire you out physically as well as mentally.
I apologize if I've gone off the track here with disorders when we are talking about Scientology. But I don't understand how you can expect people to be open-minded about Scientology when you are surprisingly myopic regarding clinical depression and social anxiety disorders.
And this isn't complete and utter bullshit because? Let's go back to medieval times and "cure" people by bloodletting and rituals.
Your explanation of Scientology states that they help you get over stuff. Big deal, psychiatrists and psychologists have been solving these problems in much better methods for years. And still, this doesn't change the fact that it is a money hungry cult, where the leading members are swimming in the money of its members, and suing everyone who disagrees with them. It is nowhere near a religion. We have lectures about these sort of things in school, to help us keep away from drangerous cults such as Hare Krishna, Scientology, Opus Dei, etc.
Edit: Carloseus, next time you're infected with staphylococcus aureus, you might: 1) Take antibiotics or 2) Jump off a bridge with your fellow scientologists. 'Cause medicine is evil, right?
I have no idea what you mean buy your first comment, other than you make no sense.
Did you read my words right? I said "mind-altering" drugs.
Where is your information? If you want to speak about this then lets make it intellegent and sourced. Show my your proof that the leaders are swimming in money. You can have all the lectures you want in school, because it only furthers my belief that schools no longer serve their purpose. They are teaching you what to think, not how to think or ask questions.
You show no interest in seeing my point of view, instead you start bashing it immediately.
And as for cult, so was Christianity at one point. All religions start out as cults. The difference between Scientology and the Christianity is that Scientology actually does something with the money, not line the pockets of the Vatican with gold.
I have no wish to turn this into a flamefest or a war, but if you are going to be calling Scientology out, then I'll do the same. Scientology poses a threat to Christianity because instead of banishing Adam and Eve from paradise for wanting to know, it gives them more apples to eat.
The irony of all this is that I'm not even a Scientologist. I take peices of my understanding of life from it, some from Christianity, and lots of other places as well as stuff I come up with on my own. I'll defend it because I have a hunch that no one will, and that is because no one knows enough about it to actually start making conclusions and defending it. I know that it kept my family from falling apart, and that to me is more than Jesus ever did for me.
There are truly schizophrenic people who need drugs. There are clinically depressed and anxious people who need drugs because of an imbalance in dopamine and seratonin.
Think of it more like not being the only route. I take meds for my anxiety and depression. I've had both ever since I began adolescence. My body never handled the changes very well. My anxiety is more debilitating than my depression though. And without my meds, I can have a much more difficult time. I can honestly say this because I've gone long periods of time with and without my drugs. People who know me can tell when I've been off my meds. There are symptoms that people experience when they are nervous and anxious. Those symptoms are exponential for me and can disrupt my daily life. My meds help manage those symptoms. So you can see why I get a little ticked off when Tom Cruise's face is on the tv saying how these drugs are bullshit and if we could only be as well-balanced as he, then none of us would need drugs. I know he is not explicitly saying that, but that's the basic message that I get when he and other renownded Scientologists talk about how they feel drugs and psychiatrists are not the answer and that Scientology is.
But when I say that medication is not the only route, that's because it isn't. Most people do best with their medications when they are also getting therapy. Because the problem is not only a chemical one, but a cognitive one as well. And a the right therapist can tremendously help a patient identify their problems, compartmentalize them, manage them, or whatever else may needs to be done with their mental problems.
I think a lot of people get depression and sadness mixed up. Depression is hardly mere sadness. It is a totally lack of motivation that never truly goes away, it makes it difficult to focus on anything. It exacerbates compulsive tendencies. It makes a person just lie there all day without the will to get up to do anything. It makes someone lie awake all night in bed because they are consistently riddled with insomnia. I remember this commercial for an anti-depressant showing all these different kinds of depressed people and one of them was a woman in the grocery store just walking around looking for something to buy. She didn't know what she wanted to buy, she just knew she needed to buy something; anything. And I laughed at that cause that is so one of the things I do when my depression is particularly bad.
The thing is Carloseus, you are probably just fortunate enough to not have suffered from any form of clinical depression or anxiety disorder. And it is also likely that people like Tom Cruise have never suffered from it either. Just like I have never suffered from schizophrenia. But I've know schizoprenics before and I've seen them on and off their medications and I would never have the audacity to tell someone with a mental disorder to just walk it off. It is too easy for people to dismiss other people's mental disorders. And telling them they really don't need their meds is a method of such dismissal.
I'm not saying there aren't people out there who should try not taking meds, because there are. I've had months at a time where I felt I had made such progress in therapy and with taking my meds that I could experiment with lowering my dosage and even stop taking them completely. And I was proud of myself whenever I was able to do that. But eventually I would regress and would need to get back on my meds because as much as I may make progress, this is still a problem that I will have for the rest of my life. Medication and therapy is how I manage it.
Again, you may be underestimating the disorder. Being shy is a symptom of social anxiety disorder, not the equivalent of it.
I apologize if I've gone off the track here with disorders when we are talking about Scientology. But I don't understand how you can expect people to be open-minded about Scientology when you are surprisingly myopic regarding clinical depression and social anxiety disorders.
This may be a double-post, if so, excuse me.
No, I have gone through depression. And it can go away, it really depends on the person. In my belief, you have power over yourself. And the power of the mind is what is important. For example, there are studies where they offer people the medication and some other people they give a sugar pill, and see which ones react. The fact that some people with the sugar pill can actually get some if not all the effects they should be getting says something. I believe that depression is just a state. I apologize if you don't like my take on it, but I've met tons of people that love to be sick, to have something wrong with them. Some of them just say they don't, some of them honestly don't but there is something in the back of their mind that likes it, or its side effects. I have a small cousin that loves creating havoc, loves to misbehave and disobey her parents. Why? Because she loves the attention she gets. For some reason the good attention she gets isn't enough, she needs more of it. That isn't because of any chemical imbalance, its because she didn't get enough of that attention when she was younger. And it doesn't have to be medicated, there are ways to stop that, and her parents are doing it and she is getting better.
Do you think I am chemically imbalanced, or have a disorder of some kind? Think hard.
I was once having a casual conversation with this one guy, and then I found out that he was a therapist. I have no problems with therapists, with talking, so we explore a bit of my past. According to him, I show the classic signs, and my past shows the reasons, of being Bi-polar. I immediately denied it, he kept trying to convince me, and I flipped the bird in his face and told him to go f*** himself, and left. It probably didn't help, but I'm not bipolar. I don't swing from one mood to another instantly without reason. (swinger xD) I just hate that people try to put labels on me, and I hate it when others go into an office to talk about something that's bothering them and they walk out with like 4 types of medication wondering wtf happened.
No, I have gone through depression. And it can go away, it really depends on the person. In my belief, you have power over yourself. And the power of the mind is what is important.
I know I have power over myself. But despite all the power that I have over myself, I still need the help of my medication. It's because I have power over myself that I am never suicidal or don't have nervous breakdowns. But the amount of power I may have over myself still manages to pale in comparison to the severity of the chemical imbalance which exists in my brain. Thus, I need the help of my medication
But as you said here yourself, it depends on the person. Some don't have depression as bad as others. Those who are so lucky may not need medication, but just therapy from time to time. Others do need medication, however. And all the power over themselves they can muster has nothing to do with changing chemical imbalances inside them. They need other chemicals to do that for them. I've never met a person who is capable of manually altering their own body chemistry in order to regulate the levels of hormones coursing through their brain.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
For example, there are studies where they offer people the medication and some other people they give a sugar pill, and see which ones react. The fact that some people with the sugar pill can actually get some if not all the effects they should be getting says something.
At best, it's some. And you are referring to a placebo. And placebos even can have a positive effect to some extent. But I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of those sugar pill tests. It is normal for people to think if they've taken a drug for something that they are going to feel some effects of the drug even though the drug is just a sugar pill. But the effects are merely a temporary effect of having just taken what they believed was the actual drug.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
I believe that depression is just a state.
Yes. For some, a lifelong state that is only managable, not curable.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
I've met tons of people that love to be sick, to have something wrong with them.
I have also met tons of those kinds of people. But what does that actually have to do with this conversation? We all know there are people who love to be or pretend to be sick. That says nothing however about people who are genuinely sick (which there are also tons of) and genuinely need help in the form of medication. Unfortunately, I am one of those people who genuinely need such help. And I have never wanted to be this way. It's frustrating to have to live day to day with the neurosis of knowing I may have a panic attack at any moment.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
I have a small cousin that loves creating havoc, loves to misbehave and disobey her parents. Why? Because she loves the attention she gets. For some reason the good attention she gets isn't enough, she needs more of it. That isn't because of any chemical imbalance, its because she didn't get enough of that attention when she was younger.
Again, this is not supporting your case against medications. You are simply acknowledging that there are some who actually do not need meds because there is nothing really wrong with them. And I have agreed with you on this point. But this point still fails to say anything about the many people out there who have a real chemical imbalance and need help in the form of medication. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Quote from "Carloseus" »
I was once having a casual conversation with this one guy, and then I found out that he was a therapist. I have no problems with therapists, with talking, so we explore a bit of my past. According to him, I show the classic signs, and my past shows the reasons, of being Bi-polar. I immediately denied it, he kept trying to convince me, and I flipped the bird in his face and told him to go f*** himself, and left.
He said you showed signs of bipolarism, not that you necessarily had it. One thing therapists do is attempt to diagnose what a patient may have. So they look for what are common signs to one disorder or another. It is not to label you, it is to help identify what a person may specifically have. That you unwittingly became engaged in a conversation with a therapist was unfortunate for you I suppose. But when I wittingly go see my therapist, she helps me sort out what is bothering me and what kinds of things I do that are unhealthy for myself. She even suggested once based on many things I told her in a session that everything I had described to her were the classic signs of OCD. And I actually do have OCD. And for someone to be able to ascertain that I had that without me having to tell them was extremely cathartic for me. It told me that other people may understand what I often go through without me having to stand up and announcing it. That other people are observant and empathetic. That was a breakthrough session I had that day and the rewards of all that hardwork in therapy continued to pay off for a long time. I can't expect you to understand that though.
Quote from "Carloseus" »
It probably didn't help, but I'm not bipolar. I don't swing from one mood to another instantly without reason. (swinger xD) I just hate that people try to put labels on me, and I hate it when others go into an office to talk about something that's bothering them and they walk out with like 4 types of medication wondering wtf happened.
You are seriously overgeneralizing therapy and medication. You are adhering to the stereotypes of people who have mental disorders and the professionals who are there to help treat them. You claim to be open-minded about things, yet you are surprisingly defensive and volatile in your responses. I would like to go on talking about this with you, but I really don't think you are capable of letting your guard down and seriously considering what I am saying. There is such a thing as learning new things everyday Carloseus. But what I suspect is that you actually have a lot of unlearning to do. You need to dispel some of your notions of what depression and anxiety are before I can even go on discussing this with you.
And I know you don't appreciate being labeled, but often when you write about these kinds of things, I only sense frustration and anger within you. Sometimes I can totally understand your frustration and anger, but other times I feel it is unfounded and baseless. And when it shows as the latter, your arguments seem totally irrational to me.
I just dont understand why Scientologists have such a problem with these fields of study. Psychologists can't even prescribe medicine, only psychiatrists can.
Many people go through traumatic experiences and life and go through talk therapy with a psychologist and it has helped them enormously. Im curious to know what kind of treatment scientologists provide to one another when they go through a traumatic experience. If anyone knows I would love to hear it.
I believe psychologist live a very rewarding life. You get to help people when they go through hard times. You can save their life and get the chance to make it better. It is also fascinating to learn about the functions of the brain, behavior, how are memory works, and how we perceive things. Its a great career. I dont know why scientologists are so offended by it.
And by the way calling psychiatry or psychology a psuedoscience is just completely bogus.
If you are implying that about every religion is ridiculous to begin with then i agree.
You know my stance, every religion is simplistic and naïve, nomatter how much symbolism you can extract from it, it doesn't change the simplistic and naïve nature of religion.
someone gets me.. =D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive. Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin) ~~us West Ladder~~
*sigh* Its another thread where I get piled on. Oh well, lets go on and forget about the medicine issue, we are never going to agree with that.
@Explorer
The way the go through traumatic experiences is to relive it. Not just talk about it, they put you in a half hypnosis state that you can wake at any time you want to, but you relive those memories fresh. Like I said earlier, my dad saw a man no older than 30 relive Vietnam. There is no way that guy could have made up what he remembered, his expressions of pain as his buddies were dying around him, the fear of being killed. Traumatic experiences aren't just the list of crap you have in this life, but the ones in your past lives. Those experiences are a sort of angrum, the least complicated of angrums.
I only share what I know, and I want you guys to know that these might not be complete truths. They are educated guesses resulting in what my dad has told me now and then, and whatever I learned from what I've heard from other Scientologists. In fact, the guy that helped my dad through called the other day, and he is the nicest guy ever. I haven't talked to him in what? 10 years? He thought I was my dad hehe. I caught up with him, let him know whats going on, and he did not ever mention me going there or doing anything with Scientology.
I don't see why everyone calls it a cult, and evil if it does nothing bad. It is new, and it isn't what you believe. Why is it wrong if others like it, or if it exists if it is doing good? It definately hasn't done any bad, you are just getting skewed information from the media. My dad is a scientologist, he's the greatest man I've ever known of. It kept my family from falling apart. It made him see things clearer, it made him more productive, and its doing the same for millions of people. Honestly, I would be a Scientologist, but I don't want to belong to any one group, because I don't necessarily agree with some of it, just like I wouldn't be a christian because I don't believe in God. People look at me and say I'm a good christian, because I don't sin, but I tell them I'm not and they ask what have I done wrong? I assure them I'm not a christian at all, and they go back and forth through catholic, protestant, and at the end scientologist. I'm none damnit! Lol. I just don't like the whole religion war people do, it just seperates us more.
I have not met one scientologist that was rude or mean, and I don't ever remember hearing about them killing or raping, or even stealing. Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that I haven't heard of it, and chances are neither have you.
I just dont think they should ignorantly criticize psychology and psychiatry. The arguments they are giving against these fields are clearly unreasonable. I have no problem if scientology helps people get through stresses in their lives. If it helps them then im 100% for it, and I will respect anyone who consults scientology for help.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
http://gawker.com/346532/anderson-coopers-war-on-scientology
How do you guys feel about scientology? I think its completely bogus, and as a psychology/philosophy major I am frankly offended about their views any form of psychiatry or psychology. Watch this clip and look at how ridiculous this interview gets (especially from 3 minutes in the clip is only about 5 minutes long).
Also, Tom Cruise's latest interview is downright creepy. He claims that when he sees an accident if feels inclined to help, because he thinks he is the only person that can actually help. The whole thing is just bizzare.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
yea i believe in that crap...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners
SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin)
~~us West Ladder~~
Edit- Nice picture OTC but I dont think its really about Scientology
i guess u didnt get it.. lol
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners
SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin)
~~us West Ladder~~
- L. Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology and Science Fiction Author...)
EDIT: Just to speak up as the Devil's Advocate here... Psychology is officially considered an ART not a Science. Calling it a science is wrong.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Scientology. "The study of truth". They aren't here to take over the planet or anything. Alot of people misconstrue that. Scientology is the belief that we are all spiritual beings. When life is given to a baby, there is always a spirit there to take hold. We go through life, and at the end we die in our bodies, but we still exist, and repeat the same pattern.
Alot of people will ask "then why don't we remember our past life?". I know that something prevents us from accessing that information and/or memories, I just don't know enough about it to tell you why. I do know however that there are plenty of people who have done it. There was a news story a while back where a woman in Ohio or something, in her 30's, was having wierd dreams about a place in Germany. Over time she wrote down whatever she could find from her dreams. She wrote down streets, names, how many children she had, anything she could remember. Then she started searching for the name she knew as hers in her dreams. Long story short she found her children from her past life, they were all in their 80's. She met them, and most of them denied it until she started reminding them of things only they could know, personal memories that no one else but they could know about.
In Scientology, they help you get rid of angrums, which are bad memories that clog us up. The simplest example would be that you had a girlfriend/boyfriend and one day they hurt you real bad. Since then you are very cautious, or even unwilling to start relationships with others because of that past event. Scientology helps you get rid of that stuff, by reliving it, and it doesn't only stand for your consciousness, but also the things that go on in your subconsciousness, and even past lives. You are put into a kind of hypnosis state, you can stop it anytime you want, and they help you go deep into your past. My dad attended one, and he told me a man no older than 30 was experiencing Vietnam all over again.
Angrums clog you, they slow us down. They are like the random files that are scattered all over the hard drive, and we have to go and delete them. Soon as we do, we run faster. There are many ways to take care of angrums, Scientology is the only place I know of that specifically targets them. You don't have to believe in Scientology to go there either, and you don't have to pay them every other month or whatever. If you do want to donate money to them, thats your own thing. The reason they price courses and stuff is because it does cost money, and from what I've seen its worth way more than what its priced at.
That is a bit of knowledge for you guys. Also, Scientology hates psychiatry. They absolutely hate the giving of medicine to cure any little thing. Instead of fixing the problem, medicine will only suppress it.
I am not a Scientologist. I do see however that it holds water, alot of it actually. Knowledge is power, they offer alot of it even if I don't call myself one of them. I see time and time again, internet or even on the tv that Scientology is twisted to be a crazy cult, that Tom Cruise is supposedly second in command, or even that Tom Cruise this and that. Leave the guy alone, he's done nothing wrong.
The only thing I have to say, don't trust the media. Find out for yourself, research it. The world sees Scientology as a risk to christianity, and therefore they will slander it as much as they can.
http://www.scientology.org/
Look into it a bit.
The video you posted makes alot of my point.
This video shows Tom Cruise. Don't just look at how he says things, or where they lead. Pay attention to the content of his words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc_wjp262RY
I think it's the way Scientologists handle criticisms is what makes me dislike them. They're act so insecure about it. And sometimes it's never enough for people to believe in something. They need others to know that they believe in something. But when an individual's faith is strong enough, they are content to believe in what they do for their own sakes, not others.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
As for the medicine part, I do agree with that. Medication does not solve the problem, or else you would be able to stop taking it and not go back to the way you were. I think that there may be such things as chemical imbalances, but those are temporary such as post-parton (is that how its spelled) depression. As for other depressions and things, I disagree that medication is the best route, or should be a route at all. Just like he said, there are vitamins, exercises, ways to handle anything, without using mind-altering drugs. If I am depressed, why is medication going to work for me if I'll get depressed again once I get off it? I've been depressed, and the best if not the only way to get out of it is to want to get out it, to find reasons to be happy again.
There are commercials for medicine that treats social anxiety disorder, aka being shy. You shouldn't treat it with drugs, you should get a friend and go out and just hang out, learn how to interact around others. Not swallow some pills. Same for almost anything. For people that can't sleep, try excercising, reading, stuff that will tire you out physically as well as mentally. Just like Outsiders, when Ponyboy was having those dreams about his parents.
Think of it more like not being the only route. I take meds for my anxiety and depression. I've had both ever since I began adolescence. My body never handled the changes very well. My anxiety is more debilitating than my depression though. And without my meds, I can have a much more difficult time. I can honestly say this because I've gone long periods of time with and without my drugs. People who know me can tell when I've been off my meds. There are symptoms that people experience when they are nervous and anxious. Those symptoms are exponential for me and can disrupt my daily life. My meds help manage those symptoms. So you can see why I get a little ticked off when Tom Cruise's face is on the tv saying how these drugs are bullshit and if we could only be as well-balanced as he, then none of us would need drugs. I know he is not explicitly saying that, but that's the basic message that I get when he and other renownded Scientologists talk about how they feel drugs and psychiatrists are not the answer and that Scientology is.
But when I say that medication is not the only route, that's because it isn't. Most people do best with their medications when they are also getting therapy. Because the problem is not only a chemical one, but a cognitive one as well. And a the right therapist can tremendously help a patient identify their problems, compartmentalize them, manage them, or whatever else may needs to be done with their mental problems.
I think a lot of people get depression and sadness mixed up. Depression is hardly mere sadness. It is a totally lack of motivation that never truly goes away, it makes it difficult to focus on anything. It exacerbates compulsive tendencies. It makes a person just lie there all day without the will to get up to do anything. It makes someone lie awake all night in bed because they are consistently riddled with insomnia. I remember this commercial for an anti-depressant showing all these different kinds of depressed people and one of them was a woman in the grocery store just walking around looking for something to buy. She didn't know what she wanted to buy, she just knew she needed to buy something; anything. And I laughed at that cause that is so one of the things I do when my depression is particularly bad.
The thing is Carloseus, you are probably just fortunate enough to not have suffered from any form of clinical depression or anxiety disorder. And it is also likely that people like Tom Cruise have never suffered from it either. Just like I have never suffered from schizophrenia. But I've know schizoprenics before and I've seen them on and off their medications and I would never have the audacity to tell someone with a mental disorder to just walk it off. It is too easy for people to dismiss other people's mental disorders. And telling them they really don't need their meds is a method of such dismissal.
I'm not saying there aren't people out there who should try not taking meds, because there are. I've had months at a time where I felt I had made such progress in therapy and with taking my meds that I could experiment with lowering my dosage and even stop taking them completely. And I was proud of myself whenever I was able to do that. But eventually I would regress and would need to get back on my meds because as much as I may make progress, this is still a problem that I will have for the rest of my life. Medication and therapy is how I manage it.
Again, you may be underestimating the disorder. Being shy is a symptom of social anxiety disorder, not the equivalent of it.
I apologize if I've gone off the track here with disorders when we are talking about Scientology. But I don't understand how you can expect people to be open-minded about Scientology when you are surprisingly myopic regarding clinical depression and social anxiety disorders.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
I have no idea what you mean buy your first comment, other than you make no sense.
Did you read my words right? I said "mind-altering" drugs.
Where is your information? If you want to speak about this then lets make it intellegent and sourced. Show my your proof that the leaders are swimming in money. You can have all the lectures you want in school, because it only furthers my belief that schools no longer serve their purpose. They are teaching you what to think, not how to think or ask questions.
You show no interest in seeing my point of view, instead you start bashing it immediately.
And as for cult, so was Christianity at one point. All religions start out as cults. The difference between Scientology and the Christianity is that Scientology actually does something with the money, not line the pockets of the Vatican with gold.
I have no wish to turn this into a flamefest or a war, but if you are going to be calling Scientology out, then I'll do the same. Scientology poses a threat to Christianity because instead of banishing Adam and Eve from paradise for wanting to know, it gives them more apples to eat.
The irony of all this is that I'm not even a Scientologist. I take peices of my understanding of life from it, some from Christianity, and lots of other places as well as stuff I come up with on my own. I'll defend it because I have a hunch that no one will, and that is because no one knows enough about it to actually start making conclusions and defending it. I know that it kept my family from falling apart, and that to me is more than Jesus ever did for me.
This may be a double-post, if so, excuse me.
No, I have gone through depression. And it can go away, it really depends on the person. In my belief, you have power over yourself. And the power of the mind is what is important. For example, there are studies where they offer people the medication and some other people they give a sugar pill, and see which ones react. The fact that some people with the sugar pill can actually get some if not all the effects they should be getting says something. I believe that depression is just a state. I apologize if you don't like my take on it, but I've met tons of people that love to be sick, to have something wrong with them. Some of them just say they don't, some of them honestly don't but there is something in the back of their mind that likes it, or its side effects. I have a small cousin that loves creating havoc, loves to misbehave and disobey her parents. Why? Because she loves the attention she gets. For some reason the good attention she gets isn't enough, she needs more of it. That isn't because of any chemical imbalance, its because she didn't get enough of that attention when she was younger. And it doesn't have to be medicated, there are ways to stop that, and her parents are doing it and she is getting better.
Do you think I am chemically imbalanced, or have a disorder of some kind? Think hard.
I was once having a casual conversation with this one guy, and then I found out that he was a therapist. I have no problems with therapists, with talking, so we explore a bit of my past. According to him, I show the classic signs, and my past shows the reasons, of being Bi-polar. I immediately denied it, he kept trying to convince me, and I flipped the bird in his face and told him to go f*** himself, and left. It probably didn't help, but I'm not bipolar. I don't swing from one mood to another instantly without reason. (swinger xD) I just hate that people try to put labels on me, and I hate it when others go into an office to talk about something that's bothering them and they walk out with like 4 types of medication wondering wtf happened.
But as you said here yourself, it depends on the person. Some don't have depression as bad as others. Those who are so lucky may not need medication, but just therapy from time to time. Others do need medication, however. And all the power over themselves they can muster has nothing to do with changing chemical imbalances inside them. They need other chemicals to do that for them. I've never met a person who is capable of manually altering their own body chemistry in order to regulate the levels of hormones coursing through their brain.
At best, it's some. And you are referring to a placebo. And placebos even can have a positive effect to some extent. But I think you may be misunderstanding the purpose of those sugar pill tests. It is normal for people to think if they've taken a drug for something that they are going to feel some effects of the drug even though the drug is just a sugar pill. But the effects are merely a temporary effect of having just taken what they believed was the actual drug.
Yes. For some, a lifelong state that is only managable, not curable.
I have also met tons of those kinds of people. But what does that actually have to do with this conversation? We all know there are people who love to be or pretend to be sick. That says nothing however about people who are genuinely sick (which there are also tons of) and genuinely need help in the form of medication. Unfortunately, I am one of those people who genuinely need such help. And I have never wanted to be this way. It's frustrating to have to live day to day with the neurosis of knowing I may have a panic attack at any moment.
Again, this is not supporting your case against medications. You are simply acknowledging that there are some who actually do not need meds because there is nothing really wrong with them. And I have agreed with you on this point. But this point still fails to say anything about the many people out there who have a real chemical imbalance and need help in the form of medication. Do you understand what I'm saying?
He said you showed signs of bipolarism, not that you necessarily had it. One thing therapists do is attempt to diagnose what a patient may have. So they look for what are common signs to one disorder or another. It is not to label you, it is to help identify what a person may specifically have. That you unwittingly became engaged in a conversation with a therapist was unfortunate for you I suppose. But when I wittingly go see my therapist, she helps me sort out what is bothering me and what kinds of things I do that are unhealthy for myself. She even suggested once based on many things I told her in a session that everything I had described to her were the classic signs of OCD. And I actually do have OCD. And for someone to be able to ascertain that I had that without me having to tell them was extremely cathartic for me. It told me that other people may understand what I often go through without me having to stand up and announcing it. That other people are observant and empathetic. That was a breakthrough session I had that day and the rewards of all that hardwork in therapy continued to pay off for a long time. I can't expect you to understand that though.
You are seriously overgeneralizing therapy and medication. You are adhering to the stereotypes of people who have mental disorders and the professionals who are there to help treat them. You claim to be open-minded about things, yet you are surprisingly defensive and volatile in your responses. I would like to go on talking about this with you, but I really don't think you are capable of letting your guard down and seriously considering what I am saying. There is such a thing as learning new things everyday Carloseus. But what I suspect is that you actually have a lot of unlearning to do. You need to dispel some of your notions of what depression and anxiety are before I can even go on discussing this with you.
And I know you don't appreciate being labeled, but often when you write about these kinds of things, I only sense frustration and anger within you. Sometimes I can totally understand your frustration and anger, but other times I feel it is unfounded and baseless. And when it shows as the latter, your arguments seem totally irrational to me.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Many people go through traumatic experiences and life and go through talk therapy with a psychologist and it has helped them enormously. Im curious to know what kind of treatment scientologists provide to one another when they go through a traumatic experience. If anyone knows I would love to hear it.
I believe psychologist live a very rewarding life. You get to help people when they go through hard times. You can save their life and get the chance to make it better. It is also fascinating to learn about the functions of the brain, behavior, how are memory works, and how we perceive things. Its a great career. I dont know why scientologists are so offended by it.
And by the way calling psychiatry or psychology a psuedoscience is just completely bogus.
someone gets me.. =D
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.
Tupac Shakur
100% Legit baal runners
SICK_Bambi 93 Barb (46th barb)
SICK_Paladin 95 Necromancer (12th necro)
SICK_ferret 95 Assassin (10th sin)
~~us West Ladder~~
@Explorer
The way the go through traumatic experiences is to relive it. Not just talk about it, they put you in a half hypnosis state that you can wake at any time you want to, but you relive those memories fresh. Like I said earlier, my dad saw a man no older than 30 relive Vietnam. There is no way that guy could have made up what he remembered, his expressions of pain as his buddies were dying around him, the fear of being killed. Traumatic experiences aren't just the list of crap you have in this life, but the ones in your past lives. Those experiences are a sort of angrum, the least complicated of angrums.
I only share what I know, and I want you guys to know that these might not be complete truths. They are educated guesses resulting in what my dad has told me now and then, and whatever I learned from what I've heard from other Scientologists. In fact, the guy that helped my dad through called the other day, and he is the nicest guy ever. I haven't talked to him in what? 10 years? He thought I was my dad hehe. I caught up with him, let him know whats going on, and he did not ever mention me going there or doing anything with Scientology.
I don't see why everyone calls it a cult, and evil if it does nothing bad. It is new, and it isn't what you believe. Why is it wrong if others like it, or if it exists if it is doing good? It definately hasn't done any bad, you are just getting skewed information from the media. My dad is a scientologist, he's the greatest man I've ever known of. It kept my family from falling apart. It made him see things clearer, it made him more productive, and its doing the same for millions of people. Honestly, I would be a Scientologist, but I don't want to belong to any one group, because I don't necessarily agree with some of it, just like I wouldn't be a christian because I don't believe in God. People look at me and say I'm a good christian, because I don't sin, but I tell them I'm not and they ask what have I done wrong? I assure them I'm not a christian at all, and they go back and forth through catholic, protestant, and at the end scientologist. I'm none damnit! Lol. I just don't like the whole religion war people do, it just seperates us more.
I have not met one scientologist that was rude or mean, and I don't ever remember hearing about them killing or raping, or even stealing. Not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that I haven't heard of it, and chances are neither have you.