i no there is a name for it but i dont remeber im like i belive in god but not the rest
umm..what?
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-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
i'd just like to say " how the heck does she hold a sword with a handle like that" lol looks to spikey to me ...
i'm a pretty open minded sort of person , and i'm equallly interested in religious views and scientific facts , and how they interact with each other proving and disproving each other etc , both of which can provide a person with a well rounded sense of morals and intelligence etc .. or not as in some cases..lol , i am not religious atall , unless you believe jedi is a serious religion (i was one of the many people that put jedi on the census that year..lol) and i much more prefer tangible evidence for anything that i'm gonna believe in, science generally provides more tangible evidence than religion does , so until i see a god or angel or anything such as aliens etc i'm just gonna keep it as myth with the open mind to accept it when im shown proof.
as for believing in angels , well when the day to day reality of life gets boring or just plain hard going then its always good to have a place to escape to , that place is a whole other world full of fantasy such as angels , demons , goblins , aliens , dragons and every other mythical creature you can think of , and for me atleast , maybe others .. to fully indulge yourself into this fantasy world you need to forget reality somewhat which i guess in a way means you need to believe in everything your fantasy entails to a certain degree .
so i'm gonna vote maybe on this one , as i maybe not believe in the extreme ways some of you do and do not but in my own way i do ..lol
But saying that makes you ignorant firstly because you dont know anything about my religion, and saying that the very large percent of people that have a faith are all unintelligent. even Einstein supported the idea of intelligent design. Limiting yourself to one belief is narrow minded. atheism is a belief and thats all you accept, no matter what someone introduced to you you would ignore it because it isn't what you think is truth
Haha! How did Einstein support Intelligent Design? First of all, the Intelligent Design movement came long after he was dead. Intelligent Design is just re-packaged religious bullshit that was made up 1 year, yes just 1 year, after Creationism was struck down by the Supreme Court of The United States, as a second attempt to get religion past the US law. It was created as a first step in a strategy to get religion into schools, called The Wedge Strategy.
Second, does this really sound like someone that believes that the universe was created by an entity:
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism..."
But saying that makes you ignorant firstly because you dont know anything about my religion, and saying that the very large percent of people that have a faith are all unintelligent. even Einstein supported the idea of intelligent design. Limiting yourself to one belief is narrow minded. atheism is a belief and thats all you accept, no matter what someone introduced to you you would ignore it because it isn't what you think is truth
yet again u get it twisted... im saying, in extreme cases, those that go to war over their religion are stuipd because its the same god just different views... and about einstein... he didnt support intelligent design.. it wasnt around when he was alive... intelligent design is a crackpot idea created by the catholic church... complete bullshit... keep it in mind
I don't know who actually created the idea of intelligent design but I don't understand how's it a crackpot idea any more than the idea that God exists due to some random book aka The Bible.
I don't know who actually created the idea of intelligent design but I don't understand how's it a crackpot idea any more than the idea that God exists due to some random book aka The Bible.
developed by creationists mainly to counter Darwin's theory of evolution...ans his book, the Origin of Species, or whatever
so that students can learn about God as well as evolution in class, nonetheless the subject is trash and has been thrown out of all biology textbooks...
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Again. I don't care where it came from. I just don't see how is it any worse than anything else.
Intelligent Design, Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Theistic Evolution, etc.. are attempts to mix science with faith. As is often said, The Holy Bible is not a science book. It does not belong in science classes. Science and faith need to be kept separate. These ideas are also used in a movement to bridge the gap between church and state as well.
These ideas are not necessarily "worse" than religion from a logical/rational stand point, but are often used as a real attack on science and used as a strategy to get religion into public schools, which is why these ideas have such a bad rap. There is an Intelligent Design and Creationism movement in The United States and Australia right now, that have been winning some battles against science in smaller courts and school boards. Luckily, for the U.S., whenever any of these battles reaches the Supreme Court, they always loose.
I said: it doesn't matter where something came from as long as it works, and as far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with the idea of intelligent design in its core form.
Quote from "applesoffury" »
These ideas are not necessarily "worse" than religion from a logical/rational stand point, but are often used as a real attack on science and used as a strategy to get religion into public schools, which is why these ideas have such a bad rap.
OK, why would anyone care about what humans try to do withe religion to get what they want, really?
As far as I know, there was an issue with people in biology class claiming evolution is 100% proven (which it totally is not), and the intelligent design folks opposed that. In any case, why would it matter.
I don't believe in evolution so I can't really believe in intelligent design, doesn't mean I don't believe in God, doesn't mean I do believe in Bible.
OK, why would anyone care about what humans try to do withe religion to get what they want, really?
Wow, hopefully you're just not being very clear with your question. There's lots of reasons. Very obvious reasons. Even if you don't agree with those reasons, it would be amazing if you did not actually know any of them.
Quote from "Equinox" »
As far as I know, there was an issue with people in biology class claiming evolution is 100% proven (which it totally is not) and the intelligent design folks opposed that.
That's not the issue, it goes far beyond that. The Intelligent Design movement is not just disagreeing with how evolution is taught, they want to insert their own non-scientific ideas into a science class. They want to bridge the gap between church and state, as I have already stated.
Also, nothing his 100% proven, that's not even relevant. The Theory of Evolution is just as well proven as the theory of gravity. The mechanics may change, such as the transition from classical mechanics to the general theory of relativity, but the core idea remains.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I don't believe in evolution so I can't really believe in intelligent design, doesn't mean I don't believe in God, doesn't mean I do believe in Bible.
Intelligent Design does not require that you believe in evolution... so not believing in evolution does not mean you cannot believe in Intelligent Design.
Wow, hopefully you're just not being very clear with your question. There's lots of reasons. Very obvious reasons. Even if you don't agree with those reasons, it would be amazing if you did not actually know any of them.
Um, what? Reasons that I should care about what people do? Or what? I don't really get you.
Quote from "sapien52" »
That's not the issue, it goes far beyond that. The Intelligent Design movement is not just disagreeing with how evolution is taught, they want to insert their own non-scientific ideas into a science class. They want to bridge the gap between church and state, as I have already stated.
Well, that's the movement, not the idea. Most religious groups try to make the gap less anyway. Try to get an atheist president chosen for office. They already made a whole uproar about Obama being Muslim. Oh my, that's so important for how a person runs a country... >_<
Quote from "sapien52" »
Also, nothing his 100% proven, that's not even relevant. The Theory of Evolution is just as well proven as the theory of gravity.
What the hell is the theory of gravity. If you are talking about the theory of relativity, well, I do not believe that either, because I know where it stems from: speed of light being the max...
When it comes to gravity, I believe, as far as Earth goes, it pulls things on Earth to itself. O believe that an apple will fall. That's all I believe when it comes to gravity - something that I can reason with. The theory that big masses attract smaller masses doesn't really do it for me on the universal level.
Evolution is a total out-of-the blue idea that came up some guy's mind at one point. It's a good idea but it's not complete and simply not enough to say "evolution has been". There are no middle fossils found, carbon fossil records become false after certain time periods, and on the main scale, if you read about, evolution is a pretty blurry department among scientists. That's not enough for me. No one can explain to me how can a lizard become a bird, no matter how many times they shove the fossil of the archeopteryx at me. If they can, I'll believe them.
Quote from "sapien52" »
Intelligent Design does not require that you believe in evolution... so not believing in evolution does not mean you cannot believe in Intelligent Design.
I thought intelligent design said that evolution was pre-programmed by God. Unless they changed their views or something, but that's what I was told in my biology class.
When it comes to gravity, I believe, as far as Earth goes, it pulls things on Earth to itself. O believe that an apple will fall. That's all I believe when it comes to gravity - something that I can reason with. The theory that big masses attract smaller masses doesn't really do it for me on the universal level.
Evolution is a total out-of-the blue idea that came up some guy's mind at one point. It's a good idea but it's not complete and simply not enough to say "evolution has been". There are no middle fossils found, carbon fossil records become false after certain time periods, and on the main scale, if you read about, evolution is a pretty blurry department among scientists. That's not enough for me. No one can explain to me how can a lizard become a bird, no matter how many times they shove the fossil of the archeopteryx at me. If they can, I'll believe them.
well maybe u should read more into evolution then, it will explain how a lizard becomes a bird. it has to do with natural selection and survival. and read more about gravity too. if you like all the answers are there
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Um, what? Reasons that I should care about what people do? Or what? I don't really get you.
You asked the question "why would anyone care about what humans try to do with religion to get what they want".
Quote from "Equinox" »
Well, that's the movement, not the idea. Most religious groups try to make the gap less anyway.
I never said it was an idea. I was telling you that the issue stems beyond what you say.
Quote from "Equinox" »
What the hell is the theory of gravity. If you are talking about the theory of relativity, well, I do not believe that either, because I know where it stems from: speed of light being the max...
Gravitational theory is simple the understanding we have of gravity, it is what has been being worked on since at least Galileo Galilei and improved by Kepler, Newton and Einstein. And it the general theory of relativity stems more from light being constant, than it being the max. Also, the general theory of relativity is used to make things work, such as satellites and made predictions that classic mechanics failed to make, it's not just some belief to believe or disbelieve in, like all scientific theories it is a tool that is used quite extensively.
Quote from "Equinox" »
When it comes to gravity, I believe, as far as Earth goes, it pulls things on Earth to itself. O believe that an apple will fall. That's all I believe when it comes to gravity - something that I can reason with. The theory that big masses attract smaller masses doesn't really do it for me on the universal level.
This is not how gravity works. In classical mechanics gravity is a force that exists between all matter. Which does not include light of course. In the general theory of relativity, it is the bending of the fabric of space-time, which is why it predicted that light would be affected as well, which was proven in 1916, just 1 year after the general theory of relativity was published.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Evolution is a total out-of-the blue idea that came up some guy's mind at one point. It's a good idea but it's not complete and simply not enough to say "evolution has been". There are no middle fossils found, carbon fossil records become false after certain time periods, and on the main scale, if you read about, evolution is a pretty blurry department among scientists. That's not enough for me. No one can explain to me how can a lizard become a bird, no matter how many times they shove the fossil of the archeopteryx at me. If they can, I'll believe them.
Just like your idea of gravity, this is inaccurate. You should try to read more about it. One thing most people have in common when they don't believe in (x) theory is they know very little about it. For instance, read about endogenous retroviral inserstions, and try to explain it without evolution.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I thought intelligent design said that evolution was pre-programmed by God. Unless they changed their views or something, but that's what I was told in my biology class.
Some people view it as that. The thing with Intelligent Design is that it can include evolution, or no evolution. Intelligent Design is made to be very flexible, and able to fit in gaps of knowledge very easy. Usually it only includes what they call "microevolution", which is just basic adaption that we see today with insects becoming immunse to pesticides.
well maybe u should read more into evolution then, it will explain how a lizard becomes a bird. it has to do with natural selection and survival. and read more about gravity too. if you like all the answers are there
intelligent design is the idea that everything had a designer. Where there is a design there is a designer. Einstein supported this. Some of the smartest and most well regarded people on the earth thought it a viable possibility but you continue to call it crackpot. Its a narrow point of view that shows a lack of wisdom. To not consider a possibility shows that your mind is incapable of understanding the concept thoroughly because you have entrenched your mind in one idea so much either you dont understand or you just refuse to be wrong after so long. But in either situation to be on one extreme of any spectrum is always insane
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
well maybe u should read more into evolution then, it will explain how a lizard becomes a bird. it has to do with natural selection and survival.
No, it does not, at all. It does not explain how do moderate terms survive. Because they can't. Moreover, it doesn't explain how those moderate terms FUCKING REPRODUCE.
A lizard with feathers is not going to have an advantage over a lizard without. It simply doesn't make any sense. A lizard without feathers is not going to get to archeopteryx form.
I imagine a lizard with stronger scales surviving better than a lizard with weaker scales. That makes perfect sense. I also imagine color, length, size, basic chemistry of things evolving, improving.
I do not imagine a lizard gaining feathers. No matter how similar scales may seem to feathers for some people you cannot evolve from one into another in one day. You need a moderate term first. And, trust me, a lizard with feathery (aka weaker) scales would not survive. A lizard with lighter bone allowing it to jump would not survive either, lighter bones would hinder it. Moderate terms would not survive. Nor would mutants, which can at least explain where feathers come from. But even if a mutant is more advantageous, it won't reproduce without another identical mutant. Thus, the whole theory of evolution crashes down for me.
No one ever found a fossil of a moderate term of any evolutionary cycle. They saw the beginning, and the end, and that's it. Sounds a lot more like someone came, loaded up Spore, added a new creatures, and let it go whee run around to surprise the lizards.
There is one thing you guys should try. Pretend that nobody ever said "evolution". Pretend nobody told you anything about it. And try to explain how animals came to be. You'll understand that the only reason people want to believe in Evolution so much is because it is THE only current scientific theory on the matter here. But I can imagine many others, just as blurry. Just because one man once had an interesting theory doesn't mean people shouldn't have continued brainstorming... Just because evolution is an easy explanation for somethings doesn't mean it's the right one. There has been so many mistakes in science... srsly people.
Quote from "sapien52;305218 »
Gravitational theory is simple the understanding we have of gravity, it is what has been being worked on since at least Galileo Galilei and improved by Kepler, Newton and Einstein. And it the general theory of relativity stems more from light being constant, than it being the max. Also, the general theory of relativity is used to make things work, such as satellites and made predictions that classic mechanics failed to make, it's not just some belief to believe or disbelieve in, like all scientific theories it is a tool that is used quite extensively.
That is all fine. But this does not make me believe that this theory works everywhere outside of Earth, or outside of Earth perception. Satelites deal with Earth and its gravity. So does everything else we did. But no more.
Quote from "sapien52"" »
This is not how gravity works. In classical mechanics gravity is a force that exists between all matter. Which does not include light of course. In the general theory of relativity, it is the bending of the fabric of space-time, which is why it predicted that light would be affected as well, which was proven in 1916, just 1 year after the general theory of relativity was published.
I don't remember asking you to pretend to be smart and tell me about gravity theory. I can go and refresh my memory if I want with internet, but I don't need that.
I repeat. I believe what I can explain with my logic. I steer away from math and calculations because math can be illogical and creepy. I do not view our world as stagnant, and our mind as powerful as to understand what is really going on in its entirety. Therefore, I never believe something that's very far away unless I cannot find another explanation or assume the existence of such.
No, it does not, at all. It does not explain how do moderate terms survive. Because they can't. Moreover, it doesn't explain how those moderate terms FUCKING REPRODUCE.
A lizard with feathers is not going to have an advantage over a lizard without. It simply doesn't make any sense. A lizard without feathers is not going to get to archeopteryx form.
I imagine a lizard with stronger scales surviving better than a lizard with weaker scales. That makes perfect sense. I also imagine color, length, size, basic chemistry of things evolving, improving.
I do not imagine a lizard gaining feathers. No matter how similar scales may seem to feathers for some people you cannot evolve from one into another in one day. You need a moderate term first. And, trust me, a lizard with feathery (aka weaker) scales would not survive. A lizard with lighter bone allowing it to jump would not survive either, lighter bones would hinder it. Moderate terms would not survive. Nor would mutants, which can at least explain where feathers come from. But even if a mutant is more advantageous, it won't reproduce without another identical mutant. Thus, the whole theory of evolution crashes down for me.
No one ever found a fossil of a moderate term of any evolutionary cycle. They saw the beginning, and the end, and that's it. Sounds a lot more like someone came, loaded up Spore, added a new creatures, and let it go whee run around to surprise the lizards.
There is one thing you guys should try. Pretend that nobody ever said "evolution". Pretend nobody told you anything about it. And try to explain how animals came to be. You'll understand that the only reason people want to believe in Evolution so much is because it is THE only current scientific theory on the matter here. But I can imagine many others, just as blurry. Just because one man once had an interesting theory doesn't mean people shouldn't have continued brainstorming... Just because evolution is an easy explanation for somethings doesn't mean it's the right one. There has been so many mistakes in science... srsly people.
That is all fine. But this does not make me believe that this theory works everywhere outside of Earth, or outside of Earth perception. Satelites deal with Earth and its gravity. So does everything else we did. But no more.I don't remember asking you to pretend to be smart and tell me about gravity theory. I can go and refresh my memory if I want with internet, but I don't need that.
I repeat. I believe what I can explain with my logic. I steer away from math and calculations because math can be illogical and creepy. I do not view our world as stagnant, and our mind as powerful as to understand what is really going on in its entirety. Therefore, I never believe something that's very far away unless I cannot find another explanation or assume the existence of such.
You make perfect sense to me, but for who it actually concerns im afraid it might fall upon deaf ears.
Evolution seems to be a trend or a fad almost. People adopt these concepts as their own and turn down the idea of anything else and they slowly become these people not open to suggestion.
I think what the problem is, is that the concept is on a higher level of intelligence, or....ability to understand the world around them and ideas of others, than their own ability to understand, and in result since they were taught it in school they dont take the information givin cautiously with a grain of salt, rather, they take it in whole heartedly
even i'm open to the idea of evolution, i try to keep my mind clear for ideas, im not a horse, i dont put visors on my eyes so that i cant see anyone elses logic
I guess its just me but i try to actually learn something from everything, just saying that its wrong and go about your business doesn't benefit anyone, but actually learning something about another side to a discussion is commendable. I know plenty of atheists and agnostics, some are narrow minded, but some are not. Many know tons about both religion and science and have honestly weighed both sides before making a decision and still consider others opinions instead of trying to argue against them. That is to me the very best way to approach this topic
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
No one ever found a fossil of a moderate term of any evolutionary cycle. They saw the beginning, and the end, and that's it.
And how do you know this? Do you actually know how many transitional fossils they have found. The first one was found just a couple years after Darwin wrote his book on the origin of species I believe. There has been much progress in the 100+ years since then, this isn't the 1800's anymore.
Quote from "Equinox" »
That is all fine. But this does not make me believe that this theory works everywhere outside of Earth, or outside of Earth perception. Satelites deal with Earth and its gravity. So does everything else we did. But no more.
And how do you know that? Have you even bothered to look into it or are you just making an assumption? Time dilation is also a factor that must be dealt with.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I don't remember asking you to pretend to be smart and tell me about gravity theory. I can go and refresh my memory if I want with internet, but I don't need that.
That's funny because you ASKED "what the hell is the theory of gravity". It's quite obvious that I was trying to answer that question, rather than just bringing it up out of nowhere in an attempt to sound smart.
You make perfect sense to me, but for who it actually concerns im afraid it might fall upon deaf ears.
Evolution seems to be a trend or a fad almost. People adopt these concepts as their own and turn down the idea of anything else and they slowly become these people not open to suggestion.
I personally disagreed with evolution until sometime after high school. I wasn't religious, but I didn't agree with science either. What changed my mind was actually taking the time to read about it. You could spend hundreds of hours reading about evolution, and still have much more ahead of you.
If you are really interested in understanding both sides, I would recommend reading Evolution: And Why The Fossil Record Matters by Donald Prothero, who is an actual paleontology, unlike most of the people that try to educate each other on its flaws. There are thousands of people, that have been, for over a hundred years, dedicated their lives to advancing the theory of evolution, there is mountains of information to digest. Don't make the mistake of assuming your ignorance is shared by everyone, it's very easy to do, and even though I believe in evolution, I still make that mistake myself. Many of the holes people think exist in evolution, where already figured out decades ago, but people don't bother looking for the explanations enough to say that there isn't one. Just because you cannot find the answer from someone you may have had a previous debate with on the Inernet or by using Google or another search engine, doesn't mean the explanation does not exist, sometimes you have to pick up a book and read it from beginning to end to come across it.
Even after spending as much time as I have learning about it, I myself, still find that something I thought was not figured out, was figured out long ago or was never even an issue to begin with. There's tons of knowledge within the scientific community, but it can be difficult to find unless you're will to take quite a bit of your time to find those answers.
Quote from "Umpa65" »
intelligent design is the idea that everything had a designer. Where there is a design there is a designer. Einstein supported this.
No he didn't.
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-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
i'm a pretty open minded sort of person , and i'm equallly interested in religious views and scientific facts , and how they interact with each other proving and disproving each other etc , both of which can provide a person with a well rounded sense of morals and intelligence etc .. or not as in some cases..lol , i am not religious atall , unless you believe jedi is a serious religion (i was one of the many people that put jedi on the census that year..lol) and i much more prefer tangible evidence for anything that i'm gonna believe in, science generally provides more tangible evidence than religion does , so until i see a god or angel or anything such as aliens etc i'm just gonna keep it as myth with the open mind to accept it when im shown proof.
as for believing in angels , well when the day to day reality of life gets boring or just plain hard going then its always good to have a place to escape to , that place is a whole other world full of fantasy such as angels , demons , goblins , aliens , dragons and every other mythical creature you can think of , and for me atleast , maybe others .. to fully indulge yourself into this fantasy world you need to forget reality somewhat which i guess in a way means you need to believe in everything your fantasy entails to a certain degree .
so i'm gonna vote maybe on this one , as i maybe not believe in the extreme ways some of you do and do not but in my own way i do ..lol
Haha! How did Einstein support Intelligent Design? First of all, the Intelligent Design movement came long after he was dead. Intelligent Design is just re-packaged religious bullshit that was made up 1 year, yes just 1 year, after Creationism was struck down by the Supreme Court of The United States, as a second attempt to get religion past the US law. It was created as a first step in a strategy to get religion into schools, called The Wedge Strategy.
Second, does this really sound like someone that believes that the universe was created by an entity:
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it... I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism..."
yet again u get it twisted... im saying, in extreme cases, those that go to war over their religion are stuipd because its the same god just different views... and about einstein... he didnt support intelligent design.. it wasnt around when he was alive... intelligent design is a crackpot idea created by the catholic church... complete bullshit... keep it in mind
gamma11 > east
so that students can learn about God as well as evolution in class, nonetheless the subject is trash and has been thrown out of all biology textbooks...
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
well i was just answering your question >.<
and to answer your second one, it was taught in science classes, when its not even a shard close to science.
unless all you questions are rhetorical, or rather they be comments......:(
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Intelligent Design, Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Theistic Evolution, etc.. are attempts to mix science with faith. As is often said, The Holy Bible is not a science book. It does not belong in science classes. Science and faith need to be kept separate. These ideas are also used in a movement to bridge the gap between church and state as well.
These ideas are not necessarily "worse" than religion from a logical/rational stand point, but are often used as a real attack on science and used as a strategy to get religion into public schools, which is why these ideas have such a bad rap. There is an Intelligent Design and Creationism movement in The United States and Australia right now, that have been winning some battles against science in smaller courts and school boards. Luckily, for the U.S., whenever any of these battles reaches the Supreme Court, they always loose.
I said: it doesn't matter where something came from as long as it works, and as far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with the idea of intelligent design in its core form. OK, why would anyone care about what humans try to do withe religion to get what they want, really?
As far as I know, there was an issue with people in biology class claiming evolution is 100% proven (which it totally is not), and the intelligent design folks opposed that. In any case, why would it matter.
I don't believe in evolution so I can't really believe in intelligent design, doesn't mean I don't believe in God, doesn't mean I do believe in Bible.
Wow, hopefully you're just not being very clear with your question. There's lots of reasons. Very obvious reasons. Even if you don't agree with those reasons, it would be amazing if you did not actually know any of them.
That's not the issue, it goes far beyond that. The Intelligent Design movement is not just disagreeing with how evolution is taught, they want to insert their own non-scientific ideas into a science class. They want to bridge the gap between church and state, as I have already stated.
Also, nothing his 100% proven, that's not even relevant. The Theory of Evolution is just as well proven as the theory of gravity. The mechanics may change, such as the transition from classical mechanics to the general theory of relativity, but the core idea remains.
Intelligent Design does not require that you believe in evolution... so not believing in evolution does not mean you cannot believe in Intelligent Design.
Well, that's the movement, not the idea. Most religious groups try to make the gap less anyway. Try to get an atheist president chosen for office. They already made a whole uproar about Obama being Muslim. Oh my, that's so important for how a person runs a country... >_<
What the hell is the theory of gravity. If you are talking about the theory of relativity, well, I do not believe that either, because I know where it stems from: speed of light being the max...
When it comes to gravity, I believe, as far as Earth goes, it pulls things on Earth to itself. O believe that an apple will fall. That's all I believe when it comes to gravity - something that I can reason with. The theory that big masses attract smaller masses doesn't really do it for me on the universal level.
Evolution is a total out-of-the blue idea that came up some guy's mind at one point. It's a good idea but it's not complete and simply not enough to say "evolution has been". There are no middle fossils found, carbon fossil records become false after certain time periods, and on the main scale, if you read about, evolution is a pretty blurry department among scientists. That's not enough for me. No one can explain to me how can a lizard become a bird, no matter how many times they shove the fossil of the archeopteryx at me. If they can, I'll believe them.
I thought intelligent design said that evolution was pre-programmed by God. Unless they changed their views or something, but that's what I was told in my biology class.
well maybe u should read more into evolution then, it will explain how a lizard becomes a bird. it has to do with natural selection and survival. and read more about gravity too. if you like all the answers are there
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
You asked the question "why would anyone care about what humans try to do with religion to get what they want".
I never said it was an idea. I was telling you that the issue stems beyond what you say.
Gravitational theory is simple the understanding we have of gravity, it is what has been being worked on since at least Galileo Galilei and improved by Kepler, Newton and Einstein. And it the general theory of relativity stems more from light being constant, than it being the max. Also, the general theory of relativity is used to make things work, such as satellites and made predictions that classic mechanics failed to make, it's not just some belief to believe or disbelieve in, like all scientific theories it is a tool that is used quite extensively.
This is not how gravity works. In classical mechanics gravity is a force that exists between all matter. Which does not include light of course. In the general theory of relativity, it is the bending of the fabric of space-time, which is why it predicted that light would be affected as well, which was proven in 1916, just 1 year after the general theory of relativity was published.
Just like your idea of gravity, this is inaccurate. You should try to read more about it. One thing most people have in common when they don't believe in (x) theory is they know very little about it. For instance, read about endogenous retroviral inserstions, and try to explain it without evolution.
Some people view it as that. The thing with Intelligent Design is that it can include evolution, or no evolution. Intelligent Design is made to be very flexible, and able to fit in gaps of knowledge very easy. Usually it only includes what they call "microevolution", which is just basic adaption that we see today with insects becoming immunse to pesticides.
equinox follow his advice... nuff said
gamma11 > east
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
A lizard with feathers is not going to have an advantage over a lizard without. It simply doesn't make any sense. A lizard without feathers is not going to get to archeopteryx form.
I imagine a lizard with stronger scales surviving better than a lizard with weaker scales. That makes perfect sense. I also imagine color, length, size, basic chemistry of things evolving, improving.
I do not imagine a lizard gaining feathers. No matter how similar scales may seem to feathers for some people you cannot evolve from one into another in one day. You need a moderate term first. And, trust me, a lizard with feathery (aka weaker) scales would not survive. A lizard with lighter bone allowing it to jump would not survive either, lighter bones would hinder it. Moderate terms would not survive. Nor would mutants, which can at least explain where feathers come from. But even if a mutant is more advantageous, it won't reproduce without another identical mutant. Thus, the whole theory of evolution crashes down for me.
No one ever found a fossil of a moderate term of any evolutionary cycle. They saw the beginning, and the end, and that's it. Sounds a lot more like someone came, loaded up Spore, added a new creatures, and let it go whee run around to surprise the lizards.
There is one thing you guys should try. Pretend that nobody ever said "evolution". Pretend nobody told you anything about it. And try to explain how animals came to be. You'll understand that the only reason people want to believe in Evolution so much is because it is THE only current scientific theory on the matter here. But I can imagine many others, just as blurry. Just because one man once had an interesting theory doesn't mean people shouldn't have continued brainstorming... Just because evolution is an easy explanation for somethings doesn't mean it's the right one. There has been so many mistakes in science... srsly people.
That is all fine. But this does not make me believe that this theory works everywhere outside of Earth, or outside of Earth perception. Satelites deal with Earth and its gravity. So does everything else we did. But no more. I don't remember asking you to pretend to be smart and tell me about gravity theory. I can go and refresh my memory if I want with internet, but I don't need that.
I repeat. I believe what I can explain with my logic. I steer away from math and calculations because math can be illogical and creepy. I do not view our world as stagnant, and our mind as powerful as to understand what is really going on in its entirety. Therefore, I never believe something that's very far away unless I cannot find another explanation or assume the existence of such.
You make perfect sense to me, but for who it actually concerns im afraid it might fall upon deaf ears.
Evolution seems to be a trend or a fad almost. People adopt these concepts as their own and turn down the idea of anything else and they slowly become these people not open to suggestion.
I think what the problem is, is that the concept is on a higher level of intelligence, or....ability to understand the world around them and ideas of others, than their own ability to understand, and in result since they were taught it in school they dont take the information givin cautiously with a grain of salt, rather, they take it in whole heartedly
even i'm open to the idea of evolution, i try to keep my mind clear for ideas, im not a horse, i dont put visors on my eyes so that i cant see anyone elses logic
I guess its just me but i try to actually learn something from everything, just saying that its wrong and go about your business doesn't benefit anyone, but actually learning something about another side to a discussion is commendable. I know plenty of atheists and agnostics, some are narrow minded, but some are not. Many know tons about both religion and science and have honestly weighed both sides before making a decision and still consider others opinions instead of trying to argue against them. That is to me the very best way to approach this topic
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
And how do you know this? Do you actually know how many transitional fossils they have found. The first one was found just a couple years after Darwin wrote his book on the origin of species I believe. There has been much progress in the 100+ years since then, this isn't the 1800's anymore.
And how do you know that? Have you even bothered to look into it or are you just making an assumption? Time dilation is also a factor that must be dealt with.
That's funny because you ASKED "what the hell is the theory of gravity". It's quite obvious that I was trying to answer that question, rather than just bringing it up out of nowhere in an attempt to sound smart.
I personally disagreed with evolution until sometime after high school. I wasn't religious, but I didn't agree with science either. What changed my mind was actually taking the time to read about it. You could spend hundreds of hours reading about evolution, and still have much more ahead of you.
If you are really interested in understanding both sides, I would recommend reading Evolution: And Why The Fossil Record Matters by Donald Prothero, who is an actual paleontology, unlike most of the people that try to educate each other on its flaws. There are thousands of people, that have been, for over a hundred years, dedicated their lives to advancing the theory of evolution, there is mountains of information to digest. Don't make the mistake of assuming your ignorance is shared by everyone, it's very easy to do, and even though I believe in evolution, I still make that mistake myself. Many of the holes people think exist in evolution, where already figured out decades ago, but people don't bother looking for the explanations enough to say that there isn't one. Just because you cannot find the answer from someone you may have had a previous debate with on the Inernet or by using Google or another search engine, doesn't mean the explanation does not exist, sometimes you have to pick up a book and read it from beginning to end to come across it.
Even after spending as much time as I have learning about it, I myself, still find that something I thought was not figured out, was figured out long ago or was never even an issue to begin with. There's tons of knowledge within the scientific community, but it can be difficult to find unless you're will to take quite a bit of your time to find those answers.
No he didn't.