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I think to have skills as drops for multi and merchants for single player changes the game too much. It would completely change the game. I still kind of like buying though. The cost would be relative to level. So if you wanted to you could spend smaller amounts and get a lot of small spells or save up to get one big one. But like the other suggestions, they have to restrict it in some way so every character won't have evryone spell. Maybe you can only buy so many spells from each tier.

If it will work with books, me and my friends will plan to make a powerful character, each of my friends will give me all books of them character. AHAHAH !! I will own you !

Quote from "emilemil1" »

??? How would that make you more powerful?

!!!!!!!!!!!! more skill, higher skill level...

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Nah, anyone will probably have their skills as maxed as possible at all times. Remember that you are still limited by your level.

So you will not having many choice !! it's boring... I think not all skills will be maxed but more than one skill will be usefull to maxed... If we have all the skill we want maxed and we only wait level up to use you stored books, it's will be extremely boring... No customization...

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Sorry, but I really didn't understand any of that.

It would give more customization than the tiered skill system because all skills are equally strong and available at all times.

See it like this:

-You have the skill tree in D3, but there are no level requirements.
-You get one skill point per level, but the skills are locked so you can't use them.
-Using a Whirlwind skill book would make it possible to spend 1 point in Whirlwind.
-Using another Whirlwind book would make it possible to spend another point.
-The more useful and desired skills would be worth more on the market because more people are using them in their builds.

The acquisition of skills(books) mustn't depending of luck or cash...
When I'll level up and I want to planed my build, I want choose what I want, the books will restricted the customization because you haven't the choice... It's simpe to understand that.

You argue about your idea from the start of this thread, you seem to be a kind of guy who can't participate to a game design brainstorm... I'm not the only one who post a logical argument that broke the possibility of your idea. But you continue to argue your idea with the same arguments.

YES it's could be great but it will not happen !

Quote from "luc1027" »

You argue about your idea from the start of this thread, you seem to be a kind of guy who can't participate to a game design brainstorm...

Please no personal criticism and judgemental comments. This thread is a creative one, not spam. Let's keep it this way... Thank You^_^

Quote from "luc1027" »

I'm not the only one who post a logical argument that broke the possibility of your idea. But you continue to argue your idea with the same arguments.

No idea is perfect, it just needs to be worked out.

Quote from "luc1027" »

YES it's could be great but it will not happen !

Although your probably right, you still can't be sure so don't be so negative.



I think books are cool, but seriously, I doubt that if you needed a book for every level up it would be very appreciated. However, what if there were very (and I mean VERY) rare books that had a drop rate of a ZOD in D2; that would enable someone to level a skill past it's limit break. 20+ Maybe up by a few levels or to level 30.

With the help of this book you would be able to put skill points in your favorite skill to have it extra powerful. And this way, without the book, you wouldn't be able to pass skill level 20. Even from magical means such as items or gear that do + to skill. The gear would work but wouldn't be able to get your level past 20 unless you had read the book.

WW Mastery Book.
FireBall Mastery Book.
etc.
The ultimate reward for the MFer or simply the lucky guys.

You guys forget that bliz have said that they want to make gold more "valuable" in D3. Putting in skill books in that people would give anything to get their hands on would destroy that principle. People would trade in skill books (like D2 with skulls and runes) rather than using the gold system.

Maybe you have to spend money to train your skills on every level up? I personally am very excited about the prospect of doing things differently in D3.

The dev's are working on the idea of having players killing everything in their path and not skipping dungeons just to mf the boss or stuff like that...

Maybe the new way to acquire skills will be some kind of method that will encourage players to kill all the monsters, and do all the quests, etc...

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Maybe... books? xD

Yea you could actually be right all along.

But i think there are more eye pleasant, modern, original ways to do that.

So maybe not books but something else.



But it shouldn't be something hard, like if i play D3 and its the first time i play a pc game... I need some kind of a tutorial and a menu that explains this stuff... So it shouldn't be like only in game (like books are) it should have a screen that pops up and stuff... i dono.

Books are cool and shit, all lore inspired and quite at home in Gothic Diablo esque worlds. But for some reason or another I just can't picture a 300 pound, savage, blood drenched, fully cuirassed, dual wielding barbarian taking a tea pause from his skull splitting badassness to read a book about how to whirlwind properly.

It just doesn't work. No matter how you explain it, no matter what the excuse for doing it is. It cannot happen this way. It is pure madness.

On the other hand I wouldn't mind seeing a wizard do such a thing as read a book. Now that would make sense. That would follow a certain logic.

Which leads me to my conclusion that it would be real badass (sorry for using this word twice in the same post but it was very fitting)
if they made a different way to level up skills for different characters.

Kind of like the same principle they used for different (energy sources) for each char.

I could picture the Barbarian getting a skill point up by killing meaner, greener monsters. Whirlwinding a Siege Assault Beast to death would sure as shit give you a level of WW.

The Wizard could read books he gets from harder and harder monsters. The Monk could perform different combinations (katas) on certain monsters and unlock points for his skills. The witchdoctor could perform rituals or voodooism on slain foes or some other class relevant shit to get his skill points.

This way it would make the characters feel more unique and really give them more depth than just a fucking nuke on legs.

And obviously characters would have to perform harder and harder tasks to reach those skill points every level. And limit the ammount they can get, e.g. (1 -2 skill points per level)

Your thoughts?

Quote from emilemil1 »

1. It is not depending on luck because they are quest rewards.
2. Let's say that they are luck based. Item are luck based, and that works well. What makes skills different?
3. The books are items, you can trade one book (or any other item (gold)) for another. You have full customization, just like with items.

Ok,
1. you said books is not depending of luck.
2. you said items are luck based.
3. you said books are items.

I think I don't understand something or you contradict yourself ?
(I'm sorry for personal attack I have made...)

Quote from "mattheo_majik" »

Books are cool and shit, all lore inspired and quite at home in Gothic Diablo esque worlds. But for some reason or another I just can't picture a 300 pound, savage, blood drenched, fully cuirassed, dual wielding barbarian taking a tea pause from his skull splitting badassness to read a book about how to whirlwind properly.

It just doesn't work. No matter how you explain it, no matter what the excuse for doing it is. It cannot happen this way. It is pure madness.

On the other hand I wouldn't mind seeing a wizard do such a thing as read a book. Now that would make sense. That would follow a certain logic.

Right !! The books from d1 are magic spell that can read by any characters, but it's still magic. In d2 and d3, characters haven't spell but skill, like whirlwind !
Books will better fit if we have some standard spell like healing or resurect... that any character can read.

I know how I haven't luck, so I don't see myself at level 10 without any spell because I only find books for another character. And trade is not appropriate to obtain my skills... the skills come from yourself, I won't beg it. Whatever if trade are easier to use, I don't want the skill work like that.

So maybe the barb doesnt read books... he gains his skills and improves them by killing monsters


Maybe the skill acquiring system is unique to each class? just like the health and mana globes are being replaced.

I think the skill system is a little too integral and complex to have it be unique to each character. They seem to already be having some difficulty getting five different energy sources to work well (since they have redone the barb's simple system three times). Adding something as complex as balanced leveling systems unique to each class only adds more troubles. As cool as it would be to have each class so different, I don't think it would be worth the trouble and balancing it would be damn near impossible.

Quote from "scyberdragon" »

I think the skill system is a little too integral and complex to have it be unique to each character. They seem to already be having some difficulty getting five different energy sources to work well (since they have redone the barb's simple system three times). Adding something as complex as balanced leveling systems unique to each class only adds more troubles. As cool as it would be to have each class so different, I don't think it would be worth the trouble and balancing it would be damn near impossible.

Right, is too complexe, only one system will be enough !! I don't want the game release in 2020...

Quote from emilemil1 »

You misunderstood 2. I said:

"Let's say that they are luck based. Item are luck based, and that works well. What makes skills different?"

You choose either 1 or 2, they both work for me. I prefer them to be non-luck based though (not dropped by enemies randomly).

Oh sorry..

I don't want a game based on luck... I prefer don't play if I don't have any choice to make or if I have to investing some hours in trade to make the build I want. Less luck we have, more customization we have. Luck is good in a game but in small dose. The best game for me is a game without luck. Only your choice make your character, like that I haven't reason if I'm less good compare to others, I have to make better choice in my build...

Hey look this guy is good, better you. Yeah he invest 10 hours to find him equipment and him skills(books). What make this guy powerful ? the luck ? the time he spend ? He's good but without merit.

we already know that !! the skill tree are changed to tiers !!! The thing was removed is skills pre-required, it's remplaced by level requirment. It will still have pre-required but only in a line, a bonus (add-on) of the first skill in the line. We'll no more have a skill that need to put point in each skill of two lines to get it.

Well, if it were the case that the more you use it the better you get at it, I would be thrilled. It's something that is way more realistic than any Skill system ever brought by D1 or D2.

Plus it is nearly the same as Oblivion. many folks once hinted that they should consider the advantages of such a system but most people just kinda laughed it off since there's alot of hate for that game from people who just didn't play it the way it was meant to be played.

I think it makes perfect sense to level a skill by constantly using it.

Quote from "FortuN" »

Hmm one answered this to Bashiok

"Topheroly to @Diablo my guess is a Dungeon Siege take on things, the more you use a certain weapon/skill, the better you get at."

And then the answer back to that was
"Bashiok/Diablo to @topheroly That seems to be a popular guess. :)"

That maybe is a little clue to what it may be?

I hope not. If you respec/change to a different skill, you'd have to go back and whack on some low level monsters just to "skill up." Weapon skill in WoW is like that, and NOBODY likes it. We'll see though. In the interview, it's partially described as a path/progression system. We have no ideas what it is, though, so all this is just guessing (which is kinda fun, tbh).

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Yes, and it contains 0 customization and interaction. You just attack and you get more powerful skills without ever even looking at it.

And it has nothing to do with the way to aquire skills that the tweet was about.

Whu? Oh, so what your saying is a system like D2 which (you just attack anyways) and up to one point then, you reach an experience level and get to choose any skill wether or not you have ever interacted with it is better?

And no, most systems that enable experience upon usage do not level up without you knowing it. Plus they could regulate it so that it would only strengthen upon reaching the next level, depending on how much you have used it.

IMHO this would be much more realistic. And it would actually imply that you have to use a certain skill in order to level it up, or a skill related to it in the case of a passive.

And for that fellow who mentioned that if you respec you have to go about killing small baddies all over again. ... In D2, there were no respec and you still had to start all over again and beat up small mosnters to relevel a new char, so in comparison.....

Plus it's so easy to fix, just make any skill point deficit level under the certain char level, exp faster through usage. Meaning if I was a level 80 Barb that just respecced, my skills would level faster ,up until the point where my cumulative of skill points got near my actual level.

Then tweak that and make it balanced and voila@!

A training system could actually work.
It works and allways worked properly with offensive skills in many games. The problem comes with defensive skills were you have to become a masoquist to train your abillities.

Anyway, imo the best option is a skill system like D2 without synergies, with decent character progression.