Lengthy read, but please do take the time to read:
Jay Wilson, I am directing this thread at you because you seem to severely dislike PvP for some reason, and yet you are the head of the Diablo 3 development team, and those 2 facts combined honestly chills me to my bones, thinking about what Diablo 3's PvP mode might turn out to be like -- terribly supported.
You've stated (on video if I might add) that you laugh in the face of those who value PvP in Diablo games. "Shut up PvP guy" is what you said. That honestly hurts, and I'm sure I share the same sentiments with a ton of other people.
So let me ask you: Have you been on Diablo 2 recently? Maybe even just 3 years ago, or yesterday? I'm guessing not, because you've been so busy with developing Diablo 3. But let me mention that the reason why Diablo 2 has survived until this day is due to PvP. Just pure PvP. That is the reason why people still purchase the Diablo Battle Chest at Best Buy for $40 a pop 10 years after release, when there are modern games like Portal 2 and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 on the shelves. For Christ sakes, Diablo 2 is over 10 years old, and thousands upon thousands of people still play it religiously every single day. As you've even claimed yourself, people spend actual $$$ on D2 pixels via 3rd party sites. Even for those people who do not spend real $$$, you know what they do? They do countless Meph runs, Chaos runs, Baal runs, and other such runs just to find better items. Why do people do all of that still? Because farming the same bosses over and over is fun? Because people enjoy spending money on pixels to look cool? No. It's because people want to build their characters up and become the best at PvP.
You've really got to be out-of-touch with the Diablo 2 player base if you think that people still play that game just so they can kill Baal one more time. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. Your stats might say people spend countless hours in the Baal Throne Room or spend countless hours killing Mephisto, but what they are doing is farming for better gear so that they can use it in PvP. PvP is the ultimate endgame. And it is going to be the same way for D3. Simple as that.
With that said, I think I speak on behalf of the majority of potential Diablo 3 players when I say: We want more PvP features. More PvP features doesn't equate to "promoting e-sports". I know you are vehemently against balancing the game for the sake of e-sports, and that's okay. Diablo 3's PvP is meant to be casual anyway. But features like replays, spectator modes, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, Last-man-standing, are all COOL features. They don't have to be linked to e-sports to be cool. They are just inherently awesome in any game, whether it is in an FPS or an RPG. They add depth to the PvP, and they make the PvP aspect of the game infinitely more enjoyable and replayable. Heck, you can even twist the new PvP features to benefit Blizzard financially. More features on PvP = more people who want to get better at PvP = more people spend money to buy gear on your RM AH. You get more profit, we get more features.
Relying on PvM alone to make people's interest for D3 last is just plain foolish. I understand that in an ideal world with unicorns and rainbows, the Diablo 3 team that you are heading would like everyone to be completely enamored with the main campaign and PvM aspect of D3 for eternity. But like clockwork, people will get bored and tired of the campaign after a certain number of play-throughs. If I learned anything from my history professor: Analysis of past events is the best tool you can have at your disposal to better prepare yourself for the future. In this case, Diablo 2 is what you should be looking at. Diablo 2 solved the staleness by having PvP as the endgame. Heck, if there were no hacks/mods to sour the Diablo 2 PvP experience right now, and if Diablo 3 weren't coming out, PvP alone would carry Diablo 2 for another 10 years.
So Jay Wilson, please I am begging you: don't skimp out on D3's PvP. It is immensely more important than you think it is. PvM is great, but PvP is greater.
Hopefully I didn't come off as sounding too childish or hostile, but I feel strongly about the potential neglect of D3's PvP mode(s) and features. People if you agree, bump and reply to this post. I want Jay Wilson, Bashiok, and the entire D3 development team to realize how big of a population of people actually care about the success of PvP in D3.
We need a ladder, and ratings, some people play the game only because of this, why is diablo trying to drive away and cut of some of their playerbase.
Blizzard has decided that they want the cooperative PvM experience to be the defining focus of this game. That's the game they want to make. It seems that they have a very clear vision of D3 as a co-op, rather than competitive, game.
And you can understand their decision. Diablo was never meant to be about PVP, though they have allowed it as a diversion.
But, I for one commend Blizzard for their clear vision and uncompromising stance on this game. Trying to make everyone happy often times makes no one happy.
TL;DR: Fuck PVP, if I want that I'll play a different game. I like where they're going with D3.
I would certainly love more PvP features. I don't know if they will add them, but I mainly want D3 for the hack n slash dungeon crawling co op gameplay, so this isn't exactly a huge issue for me. Also, people seem to forget that Diablo 3 pvp is already more competitive that Diablo 2 pvp. The PvP in it has been brought up to the next level, even if they don't have a ladder or anything else for it.
People will probably just do what they did in Diablo 2, make their own ladder on and track the best PvPers.
I am afraid to tell you that the average person does not play this kind of game, or really any game competitively. They have stated that the majority of players for SC2 simply play through the campaign and may never even play multiplayer. They've also said that the average player will probably only play through Diablo 3 on normal, and this is from their experience with Diablo 2. So, to say that the majority of Diablo 3's potential players want competitive PvP, or really even care about PvP at all, I'd say is a massive exaggeration.
E-sports nonsense that leads into crappy PvP balancing and such like WoW? No thanks
In the end the game is essentially a PvE co-op game and while it may be true to say things like D2 only lasted 10 years because of the PvP craze it's still a co-op game. If you've watched all the interviews and read all the comments made they do intend on making more features for PvP just not at release and of course the solution to the grind-fest is the new auction house feature so that you don't need to do things like Baal runs to get super geared up for the arena.
I say... stop worrying so much about it before the game is even out and if it's THAT big of a deal to quote clockworkbeast "...if I want that [PvP] I'll play a different game. I like where they're going with D3."
So much complaining about this game and it's not even out... jeeze.
A lot of you are not even reading the poll and just voting, I said would you like there to be an option? in terms of having ranked pvp and not. Not saying I want D3 to be PVP PVP PVP oriented
A lot of you are not even reading the poll and just voting, I said would you like there to be an option? in terms of having ranked pvp and not. Not saying I want D3 to be PVP PVP PVP oriented
No... I don't want more PVP options. I don't want them to spend any more time on PVP features instead of focusing on what this game is really about.
I am afraid to tell you that the average person does not play this kind of game, or really any game competitively. They have stated that the majority of players for SC2 simply play through the campaign and may never even play multiplayer. They've also said that the average player will probably only play through Diablo 3 on normal, and this is from their experience with Diablo 2. So, to say that the majority of Diablo 3's potential players want competitive PvP, or really even care about PvP at all, I'd say is a massive exaggeration.
And who cares about the people who check in and check out, just as fast? It's the PvPers who stick around, among the people trying many builds et cetera.. but you get my point.
Edit: By the way, how does it hurt you if there's an option for rated pvp? Sadists much?
There's a being difference between forcing it onto the players and allowing the choice to be there.
The freedom of choice and flexibilty is important to keep the spirit of the game alive for long.
I am afraid to tell you that the average person does not play this kind of game, or really any game competitively. They have stated that the majority of players for SC2 simply play through the campaign and may never even play multiplayer. They've also said that the average player will probably only play through Diablo 3 on normal, and this is from their experience with Diablo 2. So, to say that the majority of Diablo 3's potential players want competitive PvP, or really even care about PvP at all, I'd say is a massive exaggeration.
And who cares about the people who check in and check out, just as fast? It's the PvPers who stick around, among the people trying many builds et cetera.. but you get my point.
The people making the money from sales of the game are the ones that care about the largest group of people that buy their game, IE Blizzard.
Edit: Again, I'm not against PvP, but there is no reason to expect them to focus on putting a lot of PvP content into the game when it's not even done yet. They are obviously having trouble getting it done as it is by the end of the year.
I am afraid to tell you that the average person does not play this kind of game, or really any game competitively. They have stated that the majority of players for SC2 simply play through the campaign and may never even play multiplayer. They've also said that the average player will probably only play through Diablo 3 on normal, and this is from their experience with Diablo 2. So, to say that the majority of Diablo 3's potential players want competitive PvP, or really even care about PvP at all, I'd say is a massive exaggeration.
And who cares about the people who check in and check out, just as fast? It's the PvPers who stick around, among the people trying many builds et cetera.. but you get my point.
The people making the money from sales of the game are the ones that care about the largest group of people that buy their game, IE Blizzard.
Well, there wouldn't be any need for an expansion, or upgrades in general, if everyone thought like that, with not sticking around. Sure they might get good sales once the game launches but they need a good reputation and reviews to get even better launch sales for the next game they make.
Lengthy read, but please do take the time to read:
Jay Wilson, I am directing this thread at you because you seem to severely dislike PvP for some reason, and yet you are the head of the Diablo 3 development team, and those 2 facts combined honestly chills me to my bones, thinking about what Diablo 3's PvP mode might turn out to be like -- terribly supported.
You've stated (on video if I might add) that you laugh in the face of those who value PvP in Diablo games. "Shut up PvP guy" is what you said. That honestly hurts, and I'm sure I share the same sentiments with a ton of other people.
So let me ask you: Have you been on Diablo 2 recently? Maybe even just 3 years ago, or yesterday? I'm guessing not, because you've been so busy with developing Diablo 3. But let me mention that the reason why Diablo 2 has survived until this day is due to PvP. Just pure PvP. That is the reason why people still purchase the Diablo Battle Chest at Best Buy for $40 a pop 10 years after release, when there are modern games like Portal 2 and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 on the shelves. For Christ sakes, Diablo 2 is over 10 years old, and thousands upon thousands of people still play it religiously every single day. As you've even claimed yourself, people spend actual $$$ on D2 pixels via 3rd party sites. Even for those people who do not spend real $$$, you know what they do? They do countless Meph runs, Chaos runs, Baal runs, and other such runs just to find better items. Why do people do all of that still? Because farming the same bosses over and over is fun? Because people enjoy spending money on pixels to look cool? No. It's because people want to build their characters up and become the best at PvP.
You've really got to be out-of-touch with the Diablo 2 player base if you think that people still play that game just so they can kill Baal one more time. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. Your stats might say people spend countless hours in the Baal Throne Room or spend countless hours killing Mephisto, but what they are doing is farming for better gear so that they can use it in PvP. PvP is the ultimate endgame. And it is going to be the same way for D3. Simple as that.
With that said, I think I speak on behalf of the majority of potential Diablo 3 players when I say: We want more PvP features. More PvP features doesn't equate to "promoting e-sports". I know you are vehemently against balancing the game for the sake of e-sports, and that's okay. Diablo 3's PvP is meant to be casual anyway. But features like replays, spectator modes, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, Last-man-standing, are all COOL features. They don't have to be linked to e-sports to be cool. They are just inherently awesome in any game, whether it is in an FPS or an RPG. They add depth to the PvP, and they make the PvP aspect of the game infinitely more enjoyable and replayable. Heck, you can even twist the new PvP features to benefit Blizzard financially. More features on PvP = more people who want to get better at PvP = more people spend money to buy gear on your RM AH. You get more profit, we get more features.
Relying on PvM alone to make people's interest for D3 last is just plain foolish. I understand that in an ideal world with unicorns and rainbows, the Diablo 3 team that you are heading would like everyone to be completely enamored with the main campaign and PvM aspect of D3 for eternity. But like clockwork, people will get bored and tired of the campaign after a certain number of play-throughs. If I learned anything from my history professor: Analysis of past events is the best tool you can have at your disposal to better prepare yourself for the future. In this case, Diablo 2 is what you should be looking at. Diablo 2 solved the staleness by having PvP as the endgame. Heck, if there were no hacks/mods to sour the Diablo 2 PvP experience right now, and if Diablo 3 weren't coming out, PvP alone would carry Diablo 2 for another 10 years.
So Jay Wilson, please I am begging you: don't skimp out on D3's PvP. It is immensely more important than you think it is. PvM is great, but PvP is greater.
Hopefully I didn't come off as sounding too childish or hostile, but I feel strongly about the potential neglect of D3's PvP mode(s) and features. People if you agree, bump and reply to this post. I want Jay Wilson, Bashiok, and the entire D3 development team to realize how big of a population of people actually care about the success of PvP in D3.
We need a ladder, and ratings, some people play the game only because of this, why is diablo trying to drive away and cut of some of their playerbase.
I made a poll
And you can understand their decision. Diablo was never meant to be about PVP, though they have allowed it as a diversion.
But, I for one commend Blizzard for their clear vision and uncompromising stance on this game. Trying to make everyone happy often times makes no one happy.
TL;DR: Fuck PVP, if I want that I'll play a different game. I like where they're going with D3.
People will probably just do what they did in Diablo 2, make their own ladder on and track the best PvPers.
E-sports nonsense that leads into crappy PvP balancing and such like WoW? No thanks
In the end the game is essentially a PvE co-op game and while it may be true to say things like D2 only lasted 10 years because of the PvP craze it's still a co-op game. If you've watched all the interviews and read all the comments made they do intend on making more features for PvP just not at release and of course the solution to the grind-fest is the new auction house feature so that you don't need to do things like Baal runs to get super geared up for the arena.
I say... stop worrying so much about it before the game is even out and if it's THAT big of a deal to quote clockworkbeast "...if I want that [PvP] I'll play a different game. I like where they're going with D3."
So much complaining about this game and it's not even out... jeeze.
A lot of you are not even reading the poll and just voting, I said would you like there to be an option? in terms of having ranked pvp and not. Not saying I want D3 to be PVP PVP PVP oriented
No... I don't want more PVP options. I don't want them to spend any more time on PVP features instead of focusing on what this game is really about.
Wilson's open prejudice is pretty disturbing though, honestly.
And who cares about the people who check in and check out, just as fast? It's the PvPers who stick around, among the people trying many builds et cetera.. but you get my point.
Edit: By the way, how does it hurt you if there's an option for rated pvp? Sadists much?
There's a being difference between forcing it onto the players and allowing the choice to be there.
The freedom of choice and flexibilty is important to keep the spirit of the game alive for long.
The people making the money from sales of the game are the ones that care about the largest group of people that buy their game, IE Blizzard.
Edit: Again, I'm not against PvP, but there is no reason to expect them to focus on putting a lot of PvP content into the game when it's not even done yet. They are obviously having trouble getting it done as it is by the end of the year.
I quite honestly think he's just trying to reassure people that PvP will not effect PvE at all, he's just doing it in a horrible way.
Well, there wouldn't be any need for an expansion, or upgrades in general, if everyone thought like that, with not sticking around. Sure they might get good sales once the game launches but they need a good reputation and reviews to get even better launch sales for the next game they make.
I think you should be more worried about Blizzard stiffing the people that want that =/
Do I want the game balanced around PvP? Not one single bit.