Okay so we all know that Diablo is heavily influenced by Christianity and Judaism. Well in the Bible, Cain was the first born son of Adam and Eve. He had a younger brother named Abel. Cain offered some of his crops to God, and Abel offered some of the young sheep. God accepted Abel's offering and not Cain's. This angered Cain to the point where he killed his brother. After he murdered Abel (the first murder in the world) God came to him and said:
[10] And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
[11] And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
[12] When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
Which is basically God saying the earth will no longer bear crops for him, and the earth wouldn't welcome him like it did his brother in death. God then goes on to say:
[13] And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
[14] Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
[15] And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
In this part God actually casts a mark or a curse upon Cain so that anyone who kills him will be subject to seven times the amount of vengeance. (whatever that means, possibly the pain of seven deaths.)
Now in case you haven't noticed where I'm going with this yet, we don't know how old Cain is. Also when we find him in Diablo 2 he is the ONLY single person left alive in the town. Twenty years later he doesn't seem to have aged much through any of the games either. Could he essentially be immortal?
Is it possible that the Cain in Diablo is cursed with something similar to Cain in the Bible?
damn, you make an interesting point. and maybe, by helping mankind, Cain is trying to right his wrongs or something? lol this sorta sheds new light on good (or bad) ol' Cain.
He doesn't looked to have aged to me, besides graphic updates, and the fact that he is obviously over 40 seems to go with my theory, which is just that he could be immortal.
His character seemed to have pretty clear origins to me, the whole "last member of a dying order he didn't really believe was legit until demons came and wrecked his shit" has some personality.
If he's suddenly a supernatural being, a lot of questions have to be answered. There's not really a great deal of precedent for it in the lore--and Diablo has never seemed particularly Christian to me, except in some very broad stylistic strokes. It's mostly it's own thing, so I'm not sure Biblical references are a great source of spoilers.
*Edit* Plus, if he's immortal, why has he aged at all?
Well if we're going from the bible perspective it doesn't say he'd never age, it just says he'd never be accepted by the earth he'd never die. So basically he would keep aging and aging?
Anyways I'm not suggesting he's a demon, or a supernatural being, or anything like that. I'm merely suggesting maybe the original plan for him was "old guy who can't die like Cain would be perceived as"
Just as none of the other characters are torn directly from Christianity and Judaism I'm not suggesting he's a carbon copy either. If you look for similarities you'll find them in the game. Inarius = Lucifer, Diablo = Satan, things like that.
Something more that's a little interesting when you gossip with Tyrael about Cain he says:
Long ago, I swore an oath to watch over the Horadrim and their descendants. As Deckard Cain is the last of their esteemed Order, I will not allow him to perish here so far from the lands of his birth. Be at ease, hero, I know that he is your friend. He shall come to no harm.
All I'm saying is that when you loosely base a game on biblical ideas and figures it seems like a name like Cain would have some sort of twisted truth to the story. Even if it's Cain can't die of old age and if someone kills him holy vengeance would be visited upon them sevenfold perhaps via Tyrael.
Btw Inarius isn't Lucifer, as Lucifer = Satan = Diablo. Lucifer wouldn't bow for human and therefor rebeled against god, then god banished him (not 100% sure) and he became the devil/Satan/Diablo. Sidenote, Lucifer means Lightbringer
I'm very aware Lucifer means Lightbringer. It's derived from two latin words Lux and Fero which means to bring light.
Inarius left heaven with a group of angels to create sanctuary with the help of demons.
Lucifer left heaven after rebelling, with 1/3 of the angels, and was cast into hell, where demons are spawned.
Diablo is the common representation of Satan. Redskinned, horned, fanged, evil nasty beast.
I could go on and on about how the Diablo world was influenced by Christianity/Judaism, like the crusades of real life and the Zakarum Church, or just the fact there is Heaven and Hell, angels and demons. Belial, Azmodan, Mephisto, Baal, Diablo, Astrogha. Those are all names based off of demons in Christian Demonology. As well as the name Lilith. Also the Nephilim in the bible, the offspring of Angels and humans.
Anyways I'm just saying I think they had something in mind besides "Cain sounds like a cool name, lets do that." Of course that's entirely possible.
I said he didn't look older aside from in game graphics. As far as we know that concept could apply to how he looks all along.
Besides immortal doesn't imply non-aging. It just means someone could live forever potentially.
For a speculation thread you are taking this too serious. Instead of trying to speculate on your own behalf whether he is or isn't more close to the Cain of the bible than we've realized you're trying to disprove things like him being old. Obviously we all know he is old, but none of us know how old. We know he descended from Jered Cain who helped imprison Diablo 200 years before the events of D1. For all we know he IS Jered Cain, we don't know much about him.
I mean that's sort of the point of a speculation thread, to make assumptions based on a small amount of evidence and opinion. It's to leap to conclusions for fun and see where our minds can wander.
I don't necessarily believe any of it, but I like to think there is some connection between the names except "It's a cool biblical name."
Yeah Adria really is a enigma. I think I remember reading she left Tristram before the demons invaded. We also never find her hut or body. Makes me wonder what happened to her but we know really nothing else about her and as far as I know there are no ties with her in a religion either. Just a witch that disappeared one day. Would love to see more about her eventually. Even just that she's well, or dead, anything.
I'm very aware Lucifer means Lightbringer. It's derived from two latin words Lux and Fero which means to bring light.
Since everything we experience is a distortion of light in a way or another, then even the things that Lucifer brought to this planet are a form of light. Therefore it is said that he is a bringer of light since even thigns that we might consider as "Evil" are actually light. unseperated from the light that can form something that we would call "Good".
Really Dae? Did you have to use a KJV for the bible quote? lol.
Firstly, Doomscream, nothing in this game is by chance. The naming process for just about everything was chosen for a reason. Cain doesn't just happen to also share the name with the biblical character. Blizzard wants you to make that reference. There are several biblical references throughout the game for obvious reasons. Such as the prime evils. Diablo, Baal, Mephisto, all have satanic ties within the bible. They all, for the most part, mean the same thing. As a demon, Baal means "Lord". While I do not believe "Christian Demonology" has any real scriptural backing, I do believe Baal is another reference to Lucifer based on how I've read the bible. Diablo is obvious. And, other than a nifty shoe company, Mephisto was a name given to Lucifer during the dark ages. I can't remember the whole back story on it because it's been some time. If you want, go research it. You should find something similar.
As far as the image goes, yes that is Leah in the background. The image appears to me, to be a concept painting for a cinematic in my not yet professional opinion.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
If this truly is the last diablo game, excluding expansions, then I'm guessing we will get some extra storyline on Cain. I think blizzard would try to close all the loose ends to characters. It's possible he used magic to extend his life since he is a horadrim. It's also possible he could be cursed or something. (also magic). Whatever the case I'm sure most of the d3 gamers will enjoy what blizzard does with Cain.
Just a question, does anyone know anything about this info:
SoRRy for BAD english, was in a hurry!
In Diablo 2 we killed Lilith, talking about the bible and such, wasnt Lilith the first lady on Earth? Later on she and Adam got plenty of kids. And being a evil lady (with succubus girls) God created hell so she could be sent there and be forever traped
Thus creating Eve, Adams second soulmate. Adams and Lilith son Mamzer didnt go well with Adam and Eve but loved them. He didnt fell into the pits of hell and made a bargain with god to roam outside the "Paradise" to try to fit into heaven one day. And as an outcast, hence the creation of"Grim Reaper" he helped those in need to find its way.
However, Lucifer. Rebelling out of Heaven (he didnt agree with god plain and simple) and cast down to hell together with his love Lilith that suducces him. She made him to lure Eve into eating the forbidden fruit (not an apple, only info is "a fruit").
Lilith jelousy made paradise nevermore on earth. Lucifer was fooled and killed her and the daughters, taking the throne of hell for himself and for eternaty spread chaos and darkness to those that thought "love" was something divine.
Source: Sorry, cant give exact source. Thats why Im asking about this.
The "complete" Bible (?) a.k. The Dark Version of the Bible
And secondly, No I havent made this up, someone else did long time ago, and I dont know who or when. (I found this information in a book from the library years ago..)
There is altso talk about "Samhael" a figure that was neutral, a messenger between hell and heaven.. Samhael might be Hermes version in Greek Mythology perhaps!?
One rock of Diablo lore, games and books, is that every time you think you have killed him, you were actually just furthering his plans (mwahahaha). It wouldn't be too ad-hoc for Cain to have been cursed in some way this entire time. Maybe he can even be D3's Maurius.
Just a question, does anyone know anything about this info:
SoRRy for BAD english, was in a hurry!
In Diablo 2 we killed Lilith, talking about the bible and such, wasnt Lilith the first lady on Earth? Later on she and Adam got plenty of kids. And being a evil lady (with succubus girls) God created hell so she could be sent there and be forever traped
We didn't kill Lilith in D2, since the Pandemonium Events are not canon lore sources. And I believe you are talking about Eve (without the Evil part)
As for the rest of your post all I can say is:
....?!.... .... :| ?
Umpa, I realize that they use references, but I don't believe that the character names they've used are meant for more than just that - for naming their character appropirately for the game's setting. It wont exceed beyond that, the story is supposed to be somewhat original, and making Cain commit a fratricide or something that closely related to Cain from the Bible, ruins the immersion. The association is there, but it should be kept as an easter egg for christian players. But that's just my opinion
We have Leah and a Jacob. Now Jacob (D3) may have a more common traits with his namesake.
Nevertheless, I shall return to this thread once we know more to mock all of you! Or I'll just pretend I am on a vey long vacation...
In response to the first part, no. Lilith was the first woman on earth via many scriptural accounts. Some canon, some not. However, it cannot be ignored that she is spoken of throughout many lands and many different texts.
She was created equal to Adam. Adam wanted to dominate her as it was his nature. She rebelled. She did not understand why she should be submissive to an equal. She refused to follow the orders of Adam, In return, Adam turned to God and told him to make her follow his word. God instructed her to do as Adam said or be thrown from the garden. She continued to rebel and was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That's when Adam asked for a submissive woman. Thus came Eve. However, that is not the end of the story for our dear Lilith. Once out of the garden she basically joined forces with Lucifer. As the story goes, to this day, she will rape virgin males lying on their backs so that they will bare her children for her demonic army.
In response to the second part, you misunderstood what I said. I'm not saying that these characters are taking on the roles of the names given to them. I'm saying that the writers of the game are taking a literature approach to this. When you read a book with a name reference, it ALWAYS means something. Something will happen to that character that happened to the original with the name. Or they will take on some trait. It could be very small in the reference but it's usually there. In reality, it pretty much is just an easter egg. But, it's usually an easter egg with a little depth.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
There's a flaw in your immortality-theory.
When Leah was first announced, or at least when we first saw a video-interview of Jay Wilson talk about her he mentioned that she was kind of added to compensate for the eventual death of Cain because even though he might not look like it, he is definitely getting older.
- Or even being blessed/cursed. Excluding the nightmares that he has though.
Cain is already blessed. He has Tyraels protection in D3. Tyrael said it was his oath to protect Cain as the last member of the Horadrim.
Look guys I didn't really mean to suggest 100% that he was immortal. I was just throwing out some speculation. He's the oldest character we've seen by far and like Umpa was saying I bet he has SOME relation to his name, even if its just SEEMING ageless.
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Which is basically God saying the earth will no longer bear crops for him, and the earth wouldn't welcome him like it did his brother in death. God then goes on to say:
In this part God actually casts a mark or a curse upon Cain so that anyone who kills him will be subject to seven times the amount of vengeance. (whatever that means, possibly the pain of seven deaths.)
Now in case you haven't noticed where I'm going with this yet, we don't know how old Cain is. Also when we find him in Diablo 2 he is the ONLY single person left alive in the town. Twenty years later he doesn't seem to have aged much through any of the games either. Could he essentially be immortal?
Is it possible that the Cain in Diablo is cursed with something similar to Cain in the Bible?
His character seemed to have pretty clear origins to me, the whole "last member of a dying order he didn't really believe was legit until demons came and wrecked his shit" has some personality.
If he's suddenly a supernatural being, a lot of questions have to be answered. There's not really a great deal of precedent for it in the lore--and Diablo has never seemed particularly Christian to me, except in some very broad stylistic strokes. It's mostly it's own thing, so I'm not sure Biblical references are a great source of spoilers.
*Edit* Plus, if he's immortal, why has he aged at all?
Anyways I'm not suggesting he's a demon, or a supernatural being, or anything like that. I'm merely suggesting maybe the original plan for him was "old guy who can't die like Cain would be perceived as"
Just as none of the other characters are torn directly from Christianity and Judaism I'm not suggesting he's a carbon copy either. If you look for similarities you'll find them in the game. Inarius = Lucifer, Diablo = Satan, things like that.
Something more that's a little interesting when you gossip with Tyrael about Cain he says:
All I'm saying is that when you loosely base a game on biblical ideas and figures it seems like a name like Cain would have some sort of twisted truth to the story. Even if it's Cain can't die of old age and if someone kills him holy vengeance would be visited upon them sevenfold perhaps via Tyrael.
I'm very aware Lucifer means Lightbringer. It's derived from two latin words Lux and Fero which means to bring light.
Inarius left heaven with a group of angels to create sanctuary with the help of demons.
Lucifer left heaven after rebelling, with 1/3 of the angels, and was cast into hell, where demons are spawned.
Diablo is the common representation of Satan. Redskinned, horned, fanged, evil nasty beast.
I could go on and on about how the Diablo world was influenced by Christianity/Judaism, like the crusades of real life and the Zakarum Church, or just the fact there is Heaven and Hell, angels and demons. Belial, Azmodan, Mephisto, Baal, Diablo, Astrogha. Those are all names based off of demons in Christian Demonology. As well as the name Lilith. Also the Nephilim in the bible, the offspring of Angels and humans.
Anyways I'm just saying I think they had something in mind besides "Cain sounds like a cool name, lets do that." Of course that's entirely possible.
Besides immortal doesn't imply non-aging. It just means someone could live forever potentially.
For a speculation thread you are taking this too serious. Instead of trying to speculate on your own behalf whether he is or isn't more close to the Cain of the bible than we've realized you're trying to disprove things like him being old. Obviously we all know he is old, but none of us know how old. We know he descended from Jered Cain who helped imprison Diablo 200 years before the events of D1. For all we know he IS Jered Cain, we don't know much about him.
I mean that's sort of the point of a speculation thread, to make assumptions based on a small amount of evidence and opinion. It's to leap to conclusions for fun and see where our minds can wander.
I don't necessarily believe any of it, but I like to think there is some connection between the names except "It's a cool biblical name."
I really don't appreciate the sarcasm. I was responding to the fact that Eroon was saying Diablo has nothing to do with Christianity/Judaism really.
You're so serious of speculation for fun.
Since everything we experience is a distortion of light in a way or another, then even the things that Lucifer brought to this planet are a form of light. Therefore it is said that he is a bringer of light since even thigns that we might consider as "Evil" are actually light. unseperated from the light that can form something that we would call "Good".
It is just me or does he look like his left eye is blind?
Firstly, Doomscream, nothing in this game is by chance. The naming process for just about everything was chosen for a reason. Cain doesn't just happen to also share the name with the biblical character. Blizzard wants you to make that reference. There are several biblical references throughout the game for obvious reasons. Such as the prime evils. Diablo, Baal, Mephisto, all have satanic ties within the bible. They all, for the most part, mean the same thing. As a demon, Baal means "Lord". While I do not believe "Christian Demonology" has any real scriptural backing, I do believe Baal is another reference to Lucifer based on how I've read the bible. Diablo is obvious. And, other than a nifty shoe company, Mephisto was a name given to Lucifer during the dark ages. I can't remember the whole back story on it because it's been some time. If you want, go research it. You should find something similar.
As far as the image goes, yes that is Leah in the background. The image appears to me, to be a concept painting for a cinematic in my not yet professional opinion.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
SoRRy for BAD english, was in a hurry!
In Diablo 2 we killed Lilith, talking about the bible and such, wasnt Lilith the first lady on Earth? Later on she and Adam got plenty of kids. And being a evil lady (with succubus girls) God created hell so she could be sent there and be forever traped
Thus creating Eve, Adams second soulmate. Adams and Lilith son Mamzer didnt go well with Adam and Eve but loved them. He didnt fell into the pits of hell and made a bargain with god to roam outside the "Paradise" to try to fit into heaven one day. And as an outcast, hence the creation of"Grim Reaper" he helped those in need to find its way.
However, Lucifer. Rebelling out of Heaven (he didnt agree with god plain and simple) and cast down to hell together with his love Lilith that suducces him. She made him to lure Eve into eating the forbidden fruit (not an apple, only info is "a fruit").
Lilith jelousy made paradise nevermore on earth. Lucifer was fooled and killed her and the daughters, taking the throne of hell for himself and for eternaty spread chaos and darkness to those that thought "love" was something divine.
Source: Sorry, cant give exact source. Thats why Im asking about this.
The "complete" Bible (?) a.k. The Dark Version of the Bible
And secondly, No I havent made this up, someone else did long time ago, and I dont know who or when. (I found this information in a book from the library years ago..)
There is altso talk about "Samhael" a figure that was neutral, a messenger between hell and heaven.. Samhael might be Hermes version in Greek Mythology perhaps!?
*edit: small spelling
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
In response to the first part, no. Lilith was the first woman on earth via many scriptural accounts. Some canon, some not. However, it cannot be ignored that she is spoken of throughout many lands and many different texts.
She was created equal to Adam. Adam wanted to dominate her as it was his nature. She rebelled. She did not understand why she should be submissive to an equal. She refused to follow the orders of Adam, In return, Adam turned to God and told him to make her follow his word. God instructed her to do as Adam said or be thrown from the garden. She continued to rebel and was cast out of the Garden of Eden. That's when Adam asked for a submissive woman. Thus came Eve. However, that is not the end of the story for our dear Lilith. Once out of the garden she basically joined forces with Lucifer. As the story goes, to this day, she will rape virgin males lying on their backs so that they will bare her children for her demonic army.
In response to the second part, you misunderstood what I said. I'm not saying that these characters are taking on the roles of the names given to them. I'm saying that the writers of the game are taking a literature approach to this. When you read a book with a name reference, it ALWAYS means something. Something will happen to that character that happened to the original with the name. Or they will take on some trait. It could be very small in the reference but it's usually there. In reality, it pretty much is just an easter egg. But, it's usually an easter egg with a little depth.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
When Leah was first announced, or at least when we first saw a video-interview of Jay Wilson talk about her he mentioned that she was kind of added to compensate for the eventual death of Cain because even though he might not look like it, he is definitely getting older.
Cain is already blessed. He has Tyraels protection in D3. Tyrael said it was his oath to protect Cain as the last member of the Horadrim.
Look guys I didn't really mean to suggest 100% that he was immortal. I was just throwing out some speculation. He's the oldest character we've seen by far and like Umpa was saying I bet he has SOME relation to his name, even if its just SEEMING ageless.