It's a prison first and foremost. The Prime Evils could dwell on Sanctuary without any problems at all before they were imprisoned. When the soulstones were smashed, their spirits were freed.
It seems like they wanted to be imprisoned in the first place, however, and we have no idea why. So there might be more to how the soulstones work. Anyway, they're not an anchor, and I don't know where you got that idea.
Well, the were their prisons first; but by perverting them they used them as anchors. They (speculation) could hold a more meaningful power with their stone or shards.
Their shards also worked efficiently for corrupt those of the humans.
I think the soulstones are indeed anchors, but not in the way you mean it. I think they, now that they are all shattered, will allow the Prime Evils to stay alive rather than having to respawn in the abyss. So in Diablo 3, we would first have to destroy all the soulstone pieces before we can destroy the Prime Evils.
-----
Well, Leoric is obviously back in Diablo 3, and the Zakarum's page on the Arreat Summit has been secretly changed. This cannot be a coincedense. Mark my words, Leoric's return has a big meaning for the plot. Call me a fool, but I think the soulstone piece is what allowed him to return.
@First paragraph quoted: I composed a repsonse similar to this in this very thread a day ago if I am not mistaken.
@bold: I also said that I think this is a way to change canon lore to be able to move forward with the storyline. Or they are planning something big, like you said.
I don't really remember where I read it, but I thought that mortals are becoming weaker with each generation because of something to do with the Worldstone. Like I said, I haven't read the books. I could be wrong or misinterpreting things.
Well so far as far as I've read, Inarius made the Worldstone to make people weaker. Lilith tweaked it to lessen it's effect to only near Mt. Arreat. And now I just read:
[spoil]Uldyssian willed it to make people stronger, but I'm not sure what effect that had on the world stone yet[/spoil]
Anyway all this happened 3000 years before Diablo 1, so many generations have been created since then. I'll keep reading and let you know the final verdict.
I'm unsure of what willing it would do (I haven't read that book) to the stone.
I am at least 80% sure of these facts:
*The people in Diablo 3 will be stronger, or they won't simply because it may take longer for them to gain their powers back.
*The players in Diablo 2 were practically nephalem like Bk and Tra[n]g'oul.
I'm unsure of what willing it would do (I haven't read that book) to the stone.
Well...
[spoil]He willed it to make people stronger, asked it to do so, and where as Lilith and Inarius had just changed the effect it had on people, Uldyssian was able to actually change the physical aspect of it.[/spoil]
It's a prison first and foremost. The Prime Evils could dwell on Sanctuary without any problems at all before they were imprisoned. When the soulstones were smashed, their spirits were freed.
It seems like they wanted to be imprisoned in the first place, however, and we have no idea why. So there might be more to how the soulstones work. Anyway, they're not an anchor, and I don't know where you got that idea.
I don't think we'll agree on this, because I don't agree that there's any "real" Diablo body. He doesn't even appear to have a real body in the books, so I'm thinking there is no, and the thing we see in the D3 trailer is jsut another one in the line of many.
Wait, what is the original argument?
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Huh? No we didn't. We killed the Warrior's body, which Diablo's spirit had corrupted and morphed after his own image. Would you say we also killed Diablo's body in D1? Obviously not, so we can't have killed his real body in D2 either. It's the Warrior that dies, not Diablo. Diablo returns to the soulstone, as you can clearly see in the cinematic. Diablo's body was never there. I don't know how much more clearly I can this..
Yes, the soul returns to the soulstone instead of dying. Therefore, the soulstone has to be smashed, as it is anchoring the soul and keeping it from being sent to the Abyss.
Banishing and killing Diablo are two different things. just because the Lesser Evils banished him doesn't mean they killed him. Thus he could well exist as a spirit, since he hadn't died.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
I'll be going with the simplest conclusion until there is evidence to suggest otherwise: the Chaos Sanctuary is not Diablo's domain because the name doesn't fit.
Similarly, we had to go to Tristram in Act 1 yet the Rogue Encampment isn't close enough and they couldn't make Act 1 humongous. So they used a portal. I would expect the same thing for going to the Hellforge, if they are indeed meant to be further apart.
That's a good point. However, I still think it seems like a game design issue.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Well I know he can't interfere and all that, but don't you think he could have bothered to take the stairs down? It's not like he was very far off from Hell. Besides, if we use that logic, why didn't Hadriel smash the stone? He's. Right. There.
But he didn't have the Soulstone. Look, I wasn't saying that Tyrael should have smashed it. I'm saying Tyrael could have smashed it. Although, we do not know if he had some special help with the Worldstone. Because he could obviously destroy that, yet he couldn't smash the stones in Hell while he was at the pandemonium Fortress. So someone must have helped him when the Worldstone was destroyed.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Well, the fact is that the soulstones are already split and a part of at least their essence has been divided. So regardless of whether or not this makes them immortal, they have actually lost a bit of their powers. Probably not a lot, but a bit. So your reasoning doesn't work, because we already know they took that risk. What I'm asking is why they did it. Unless you're saying you don't think some of their essence remained in the soulstones? In that case my question is what caused the Zakarum to transform, then? Keep in mind, their transformation is awfully similar to the transformations of the Wanderer, Prince Albrecht, Tal Rasha and I-forgot-his-name-the-one-Mephisto-took-possession-of?
No it doesn't mean their essence is divided, and there's no indication of that.
The Zakarum have apparently been retconned, as there's no longer any mention of soulstones into their hands on Arreat Summit, but instead they were just corrupted and given powers.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
"I helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile into your world" - Izual.
I think Belial and Azmodan aren't in on the plan. That they were tricked into thinking they could beat Diablo and Mephisto. Thus why the exile was "mastermind"ed.
So Andariel and Duriel were?
Quote from "Daemaro" »
Anyway all this happened 3000 years before Diablo 1, so many generations have been created since then. I'll keep reading and let you know the final verdict.
You won't get an answer to that until the very final chapters of the Veiled Prophet, so keep reading
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But he didn't have the Soulstone. Look, I wasn't saying that Tyrael should have smashed it. I'm saying Tyrael could have smashed it. Although, we do not know if he had some special help with the Worldstone. Because he could obviously destroy that, yet he couldn't smash the stones in Hell while he was at the pandemonium Fortress. So someone must have helped him when the Worldstone was destroyed.
I think the reason Tyrael did not take the burden upon himself is because he didn't want to become corrupted, not even chance it. Like in the Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf refuses the Ring from Frodo- he knew he would be a more powerful host/puppet (although this was only part of his reason). In the same way, imagine an angel of the Angiris Council, the most powerful members of the High Heavens, being corrupted and instilled with the baleful spirit of a Prime Evil?
No, it doesn't say it anywhere, but it does make sense.
No, they were not. If I remember correctly, both Andy just decided to switch to the winning side (I don't know how she figure that) and Dury was punished. I think his punished was to be a guard dog at the tomb.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't play the game for awhile.
Yeah, Andariel was given the role of corrupter and her own bit of land (Catacombs and the valley above). Duriel was punished to guard the correct Vizjerei tomb which held the prisoner Baal.
I think the reason Tyrael did not take the burden upon himself is because he didn't want to become corrupted, not even chance it. Like in the Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf refuses the Ring from Frodo- he knew he would be a more powerful host/puppet (although this was only part of his reason). In the same way, imagine an angel of the Angiris Council, the most powerful members of the High Heavens, being corrupted and instilled with the baleful spirit of a Prime Evil?
No, it doesn't say it anywhere, but it does make sense.
Hmm, I find it hard to believe that Tyrael would be so weak as to succumb to Diablo's power simply by being exposed to him for such a short amount of time. Once again, thy?ve been at each other for close to eternity, you'd think they know the ins-and-outs of each other by now.
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Hmm, I find it hard to believe that Tyrael would be so weak as to succumb to Diablo's power simply by being exposed to him for such a short amount of time. Once again, thy?ve been at each other for close to eternity, you'd think they know the ins-and-outs of each other by now.
That's why I said, or at least meant to say and perhaps forgot, that although he'd probably be much better at resisting corruption than a human, it's still a possibility, and one that would be better off not chanced. That would be the logicality behind such a story mechanism.
The other, more likely, cause, of course, is that it's a story, and as such, the writers have the distinct privilege of doing things therein that might not make the *most* sense, but, all the same needed to be done to advance the story in the way he/she/they intend it to. This is obviously the real issue here, although the former would make sense if you wanted to rationalize it. I, myself, will stick with the former so that I don't feel the story has been fractured.
I think the main reason he didn't destroy it was he's supposed to stay out of affairs of sanctuary right? Taking the stone and destroying it, could have released Diablo, also he'd have to go to the Hellforge to break it and truly destroy Diablo, which I'm sure would be a no-no. A angel walking into Hell doing as he pleases.
Still haven't read the last book, just finished the second so I'm just going by what I've heard/makes sense.
Well, first of, Hadriel was already floating about in Hell, so I wouldn't particularly see an issue with Tyrael doing so- he didn't particularly have a good running record with the Angiris Council, anyway. Secondly, if he wasn't willing to get involved, why would he have tried to get in to the Worldstone Chamber in Act V? He said he tried, but Baal would not let him through, which I'm guessing was via the power of the corrupted Worldstone.
I always thought, from his actions and what he said, that Tyrael was the one angel that realized that isolation from Sanctuary would not solve anything, and that's why he chose to help humanity, because its neutrality kept it from becoming another bloody battlefield for the immortals.
I always thought, from his actions and what he said, that Tyrael was the one angel that realized that isolation from Sanctuary would not solve anything, and that's why he chose to help humanity, because its neutrality kept it from becoming another bloody battlefield for the immortals.
Yeah I agree on that much. Except by interfering with Sanctuary, it'd be a bad move on Tyrael's part to piss off the Council. I believe they agreed in the final vote to let it progress normally and see how it goes instead of the alternative Imperius wanted. I think that's why he TRIES to stay out. I think that destroying the worldstone though was a bad move on his part.
Hadriel though, I'm not too sure what'd up with him. I doubt the demons just sit by and allow a angel to float around all the time. I mean surely that'd be a top priority for a stronger demon to take care of. Maybe there is something suspicious about him :confused:. Or maybe he just was supposed to "appear before you" to warn you Diablo lies ahead or something.
That's why I said, or at least meant to say and perhaps forgot, that although he'd probably be much better at resisting corruption than a human, it's still a possibility, and one that would be better off not chanced. That would be the logicality behind such a story mechanism.
Oh man. Now we're back a thte corruption-argument.
Suffice to say, I agree with you that it was probably a writing-solution in reality.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Maybe Hadriel was just a projection and he wasn't reallly there?
That's a possibility. I have a hard time imagining demons running around doing the same in Heaven, but then again who knows how that works?
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Anyways, I believe the stones were all fake and the real stones are still sitting on some forgotten table somewhere in the High Heavens. This also explains why the fakes were corrupted so easily.
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Their shards also worked efficiently for corrupt those of the humans.
@First paragraph quoted: I composed a repsonse similar to this in this very thread a day ago if I am not mistaken.
@bold: I also said that I think this is a way to change canon lore to be able to move forward with the storyline. Or they are planning something big, like you said.
Well so far as far as I've read, Inarius made the Worldstone to make people weaker. Lilith tweaked it to lessen it's effect to only near Mt. Arreat. And now I just read:
[spoil]Uldyssian willed it to make people stronger, but I'm not sure what effect that had on the world stone yet[/spoil]
Anyway all this happened 3000 years before Diablo 1, so many generations have been created since then. I'll keep reading and let you know the final verdict.
I am at least 80% sure of these facts:
*The people in Diablo 3 will be stronger, or they won't simply because it may take longer for them to gain their powers back.
*The players in Diablo 2 were practically nephalem like Bk and Tra[n]g'oul.
Well...
[spoil]He willed it to make people stronger, asked it to do so, and where as Lilith and Inarius had just changed the effect it had on people, Uldyssian was able to actually change the physical aspect of it.[/spoil]
Use the spoil tags by the way.
[spoil] then /spoil
Wait, what is the original argument?
Yes, the soul returns to the soulstone instead of dying. Therefore, the soulstone has to be smashed, as it is anchoring the soul and keeping it from being sent to the Abyss.
Banishing and killing Diablo are two different things. just because the Lesser Evils banished him doesn't mean they killed him. Thus he could well exist as a spirit, since he hadn't died.
That's a good point. However, I still think it seems like a game design issue.
But he didn't have the Soulstone. Look, I wasn't saying that Tyrael should have smashed it. I'm saying Tyrael could have smashed it. Although, we do not know if he had some special help with the Worldstone. Because he could obviously destroy that, yet he couldn't smash the stones in Hell while he was at the pandemonium Fortress. So someone must have helped him when the Worldstone was destroyed.
No it doesn't mean their essence is divided, and there's no indication of that.
The Zakarum have apparently been retconned, as there's no longer any mention of soulstones into their hands on Arreat Summit, but instead they were just corrupted and given powers.
So Andariel and Duriel were?
You won't get an answer to that until the very final chapters of the Veiled Prophet, so keep reading
I think the reason Tyrael did not take the burden upon himself is because he didn't want to become corrupted, not even chance it. Like in the Lord of the Rings, when Gandalf refuses the Ring from Frodo- he knew he would be a more powerful host/puppet (although this was only part of his reason). In the same way, imagine an angel of the Angiris Council, the most powerful members of the High Heavens, being corrupted and instilled with the baleful spirit of a Prime Evil?
No, it doesn't say it anywhere, but it does make sense.
No, they were not. If I remember correctly, both Andy just decided to switch to the winning side (I don't know how she figure that) and Dury was punished. I think his punished was to be a guard dog at the tomb.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't play the game for awhile.
That's why I said, or at least meant to say and perhaps forgot, that although he'd probably be much better at resisting corruption than a human, it's still a possibility, and one that would be better off not chanced. That would be the logicality behind such a story mechanism.
The other, more likely, cause, of course, is that it's a story, and as such, the writers have the distinct privilege of doing things therein that might not make the *most* sense, but, all the same needed to be done to advance the story in the way he/she/they intend it to. This is obviously the real issue here, although the former would make sense if you wanted to rationalize it. I, myself, will stick with the former so that I don't feel the story has been fractured.
Still haven't read the last book, just finished the second so I'm just going by what I've heard/makes sense.
I always thought, from his actions and what he said, that Tyrael was the one angel that realized that isolation from Sanctuary would not solve anything, and that's why he chose to help humanity, because its neutrality kept it from becoming another bloody battlefield for the immortals.
Yeah I agree on that much. Except by interfering with Sanctuary, it'd be a bad move on Tyrael's part to piss off the Council. I believe they agreed in the final vote to let it progress normally and see how it goes instead of the alternative Imperius wanted. I think that's why he TRIES to stay out. I think that destroying the worldstone though was a bad move on his part.
Hadriel though, I'm not too sure what'd up with him. I doubt the demons just sit by and allow a angel to float around all the time. I mean surely that'd be a top priority for a stronger demon to take care of. Maybe there is something suspicious about him :confused:. Or maybe he just was supposed to "appear before you" to warn you Diablo lies ahead or something.
Suffice to say, I agree with you that it was probably a writing-solution in reality.
That's a possibility. I have a hard time imagining demons running around doing the same in Heaven, but then again who knows how that works?
Anyways, I believe the stones were all fake and the real stones are still sitting on some forgotten table somewhere in the High Heavens. This also explains why the fakes were corrupted so easily.