Most people that truly love the diablo series, especially diablo 2, absolutely despise world of warcraft. The idea that time>all is utterly sickening to a true diablo fan, imo. Diablo is about precise min/maxing, perfect builds, perfect stat distributions, and a unique/well thought out combination of equipment and charms to be the best duelist possible. It's about being a sharp trader in a world where currency doesn't exist, everything's value is unstable, and a pauper can become a prince who does 400% more damage with 3-4 great trades. It's about the constant danger of an enemy player going hostile with you and kicking your ass wherever you may be. And yes, it's about being a one man army who can slaughter the entire game if you know what you're doing .
Wow is just the opposite. For any class and any role, there is an ideal item set at all levels of endgame play. The only thing required to acquire the item set that corresponds to your guild's progression is time and patience. Let's be real here: while boss strategy in diablo 2 wasn't exactly complex, it ain't in wow either. I've known so many garbage guilds full of horrible players who threw themselves at content, over and over, until every detail of the fight was imprinted on their thick skulls .
Trading is dull and pointless. Nearly all worthwhile items are bind on pickup (and the recipes for those few that are not are almost assuredly bop themselves), forcing players who are serious about excelling to raid countless hours for a small chance to get a 3% damage upgrade. The only reason the economy exists at all is to fuel the supplementation of these items.
Pvp is scripted and overly complex. There's no excitement in waiting your turn for an arena battle, knowing that half the players you will meet are only there to get better items for raiding. I always preferred the "use 4-5 skills with just your mouse and spend most of your energy on positioning" than stand in one place and press hamstring, Bloodthirst, heroic strike, ww and then waddle on over to your next target. I say waddle because 95% of the time in wow pvp you're under extreme movement reduction. The fact that healing from a dedicated HEALING class is such a central and critical part of killing other players in wow turns off many diablo players, I suspect. Brutal fights to the death are much more fun than four players hitting a paladin and waiting for him to finally run out of mana.
"Social mobility" in wow is practically nonexistent. Because progression is entirely based on time input, it will be a very, very long time before someone who has just hit 70 will be capable enough to "run with the big dogs" so to speak. Admittedly, exceptional players are an...exception...to this rule. By proving to a skilled and progressed guild that he can do good damage compared to his level of gear, an excellent player can sometimes bypass this impossible social climb and be "rushed up to par" by their new guild. But really, being an exceptional healer or dpser in wow is a matter of pressing 3-4 buttons at the proper moment, in concert with a knowledge of WoW's simple damage/healing/defense mechanics when selecting gear, for about 5 minutes straight. I know because I've done both. Sure, it's fun to see your name at the top of the damage meter when your gear sucks, but there's no sense of accomplishment when it's that easy.
The danger of players going hostile at any moment is a huge part of diablo which doesn't even exist in wow. Already talked about why wow pvp is garbage .
The sense of power and accomplishment that one feels when their perfectly build character slaughters an entire hell act, or just barely wins the elite palapk turney is unrivaled by anything in wow. Single characters have the power to kill a few silly solo monsters who drop a bunch of trash and only exist to provide exp and gold. In a raid, felling a difficult boss for the first time is admittedly exciting. But knowing that, essentially, all your guild has done is bang its collective head against the wall until it breaks down quickly overpowers any feeling of accomplishment. After the tenth time killing Vael (with the help of 50 mods that practically play the game for you), and waiting for that stupid drop you have to bid against 4 other guys for, excitement is replaced by stone cold boredom and revulsion.
Finally, the game just looks silly. A subjective point of contention, you say! Maybe so, but I found the gritty, dark, gothic atmosphere in diablo 2 to fit a world beset by chaos, darkness, and evil far better than a bunch of cartoons in a polished, glowing dungeon. I especially hate the light without any light sources that abounds in WoW and can be seen in the diablo 3 preview, as well as the "full screen glow" graphics option they introduced in WoW that remains in diablo 3. The full screen glow effect does more than turn up the gamma: it blurs lines and textures to create an even more cartoon-like look. This same misplaced effect is clearly employed in the screenshot in the bottom left of this picture: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7807/itshouldrh5.jpg . The fixed picture in the bottom right removes this effect as well as adjusting the contrast, and the effect is absolutely drastic. It is the best "WoW influence"/"free of WoW influence" picture I've been able to find.
A word about light sources: "Creepy" blues and greens coming from nowhere are supposed to lend a sense of danger and supernatural mystery. That might work in the warcraft universe. But it does not in diablo. A light radius creates anticipation and fear of what awaits in the darkness. Seeing a couple zombies walking around in greenish light from two rooms away isn't scary in the least.
Some say that those who want diablo 3 to remain true to the franchise, nothing like wow, are waging a "war on color". That argument is patently false. The diablo 2 world abounded in color from spells, flames, boss attacks, and creature colors/clothing. What it did not have was lighting that looks like it came out of the scooby doo movie, or fairyland glow effects that blur what should be crisp and disgusting textures. What if the art direction isn't the only area in which diablo 3 resembles WoW? When fans voice a legitimate concern, such as a fundamental flaw in art and stylistic direction, it doesn't mean they complain just for the sake of complaining. We simply fear that this "new Blizzard" may fail to produce a worthy sequel to the best game of all time.
First reply: Wow not this again, we've been over this 100 times dude
Second reply: Blizz knows what it's doing, dint u c the interview were he talks bout the fan pix...plus your such a goth god look at this pic of baals throne room with a bunch of colorful spells
Third reply: play HGL if you love blizzard north so much, we love WoW, go away
Let this be our final battle
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
between wow(being a devastation to the wow universe, and a mediocre mmorpg at best) and sc:ghost... i have no faith in blizzard anymore. The current direction of D3 into that style is not helping the matter.
I dont think they much care though. They lost me, one fan from the original war craft series, in exchange for thousands of ignorant new players ready to hand over their cash.
I felt D2 was too bright and colorful compared to D1, but still tolerable.
Solid points OP, with "new blizzard" we can expect anything.
What they are riding on here is: despite all the other D2 clones out there, only one company can produce the true 'Heir to the Throne' of D2, Blizzard.
Having said that, i think blizzard knows they are 'surfing that wave' and to avoid the mass dissappointment of an extremely large fanbase, they are gonna have to make Diablo III absolutely perfect.
I feel kinda sorry for them, because, c'mon, put yourself in their shoes!
Look at that enormous shadow D2 cast!
Everytime i played a game that claimed it was diablo-centric, i was so critical of everything in the game, i would be put off by the slightest flaw imaginable.
That's why D3's release is pretty far-off, I'd imagine, and like I said, they have a lotta work to do IMO.
Imagine, if you will, the stress thats gonna be on every employee of blizzards head come release.
Not because of sales (it goes without saying that diablo III will be one of the best-selling PC games of all time), but because of Critical Receiption...
Only things I bothered reading was green lighting and PvP.
I dislike the green lighting too, it's the one thing that really annoys me about the art, it's not going to kill the game for me though.
As for the PvP, having a choice in PvP is what works nowadays. People get killed for no reason and discouraged from playing, that's not what Blizzard wants. It doesn't build upon a fanbase, it subtracts from it.
I don't see anything wrong with consensual PvP. If you can't take someone in a fair fight, you really have no business fighting them at all just to strut your e-go.
Some good points for sure, but I would actually be pretty much ok with them making the textures smooth and low poly if the content was at least not over emphasized and caracatured. In the gameplay demo when they exited the dungeon I looked at the stupid looking skull with the puffy looking root gently hugging it and I just thought of so many badly done kids pirate movies and lego dioramas, hideouts underneath/inside giant skulls ceased to be creepy when I was like 7, now it just makes me think wtf, I don't understand what blizzards art team are trying to do at all.
I don't see anything wrong with consensual PvP. If you can't take someone in a fair fight, you really have no business fighting them at all just to strut your e-go.
Though many pked lower level players for no reason, I wasn't one of them. That is simply an unfortunate side effect of a proper pvp system. Usually those jackass types aren't very good at fighting people their own level; many times I'd be killed by some level 60 sorc when my barb was still 30, then find the same player in another game at 80 and slaughter them again and again until they left.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I disagree..... Im damn sick of these people... If you dont like the game THEN DONT PLAY IT! It's that simple. You dont have to go and rant everywhere that game sucks. Diablo 2 has good points and bad points. WoW has good and bad points. But all of those are "IMO". You made a fun of WoW but someone other can make fun of Diablo 2 in same way!
It really isnt Blizzards fault that you cant enjoy game that they did, it is your own damn fault. I enjoy both games and I think pvp in Diablo 2 is stupid and waste of time... IMO there is challenge for healer to keep warrior alive, and there is challenge to warrior to keep his healer alive.
Then you rant about colors again... If you dont like them, dont buy the game, simple as that. (and btw. Full screen glow can be turned off......)
"That might work in the warcraft universe. But it does not in diablo."
And you know what works in diablo universe eh? Are you maker of diablos lore or something? You have read that there is no colors like blue or green in diablos universe? If you have then Im sorry, if you havent make you own damn game....
"We simply fear that this "new Blizzard" may fail to produce a worthy sequel to the best game of all time."
I dont fear things like that... Because Im Diablo Fan and I have trust in Blizzard that they can make it good. And btw. I dont think Diablo 2 is "best game of all time", I really think Diablo 3 will be.
Really... You call yourself diablo fan? It seems more like hater to me....
There, I think I wrote about all those things you wrote in that "I see future" thingy... And sorry about my crammar, aint that good in english...
/agreed. Have faith in blizzard. Evryone acts like there a brand new gaming company and cant make anything good. HAVE SOME FAITH!!!!!!!!! I belive blizzard will make Diablo3 Kick A§§
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Most people that truly love the diablo series, especially diablo 2, absolutely despise world of warcraft. The idea that time>all is utterly sickening to a true diablo fan, imo. Diablo is about precise min/maxing, perfect builds, perfect stat distributions, and a unique/well thought out combination of equipment and charms to be the best duelist possible. It's about being a sharp trader in a world where currency doesn't exist, everything's value is unstable, and a pauper can become a prince who does 400% more damage with 3-4 great trades. It's about the constant danger of an enemy player going hostile with you and kicking your ass wherever you may be. And yes, it's about being a one man army who can slaughter the entire game if you know what you're doing .
Wow is just the opposite. For any class and any role, there is an ideal item set at all levels of endgame play. The only thing required to acquire the item set that corresponds to your guild's progression is time and patience. Let's be real here: while boss strategy in diablo 2 wasn't exactly complex, it ain't in wow either. I've known so many garbage guilds full of horrible players who threw themselves at content, over and over, until every detail of the fight was imprinted on their thick skulls .
Trading is dull and pointless. Nearly all worthwhile items are bind on pickup (and the recipes for those few that are not are almost assuredly bop themselves), forcing players who are serious about excelling to raid countless hours for a small chance to get a 3% damage upgrade. The only reason the economy exists at all is to fuel the supplementation of these items.
Pvp is scripted and overly complex. There's no excitement in waiting your turn for an arena battle, knowing that half the players you will meet are only there to get better items for raiding. I always preferred the "use 4-5 skills with just your mouse and spend most of your energy on positioning" than stand in one place and press hamstring, Bloodthirst, heroic strike, ww and then waddle on over to your next target. I say waddle because 95% of the time in wow pvp you're under extreme movement reduction. The fact that healing from a dedicated HEALING class is such a central and critical part of killing other players in wow turns off many diablo players, I suspect. Brutal fights to the death are much more fun than four players hitting a paladin and waiting for him to finally run out of mana.
"Social mobility" in wow is practically nonexistent. Because progression is entirely based on time input, it will be a very, very long time before someone who has just hit 70 will be capable enough to "run with the big dogs" so to speak. Admittedly, exceptional players are an...exception...to this rule. By proving to a skilled and progressed guild that he can do good damage compared to his level of gear, an excellent player can sometimes bypass this impossible social climb and be "rushed up to par" by their new guild. But really, being an exceptional healer or dpser in wow is a matter of pressing 3-4 buttons at the proper moment, in concert with a knowledge of WoW's simple damage/healing/defense mechanics when selecting gear, for about 5 minutes straight. I know because I've done both. Sure, it's fun to see your name at the top of the damage meter when your gear sucks, but there's no sense of accomplishment when it's that easy.
The danger of players going hostile at any moment is a huge part of diablo which doesn't even exist in wow. Already talked about why wow pvp is garbage .
The sense of power and accomplishment that one feels when their perfectly build character slaughters an entire hell act, or just barely wins the elite palapk turney is unrivaled by anything in wow. Single characters have the power to kill a few silly solo monsters who drop a bunch of trash and only exist to provide exp and gold. In a raid, felling a difficult boss for the first time is admittedly exciting. But knowing that, essentially, all your guild has done is bang its collective head against the wall until it breaks down quickly overpowers any feeling of accomplishment. After the tenth time killing Vael (with the help of 50 mods that practically play the game for you), and waiting for that stupid drop you have to bid against 4 other guys for, excitement is replaced by stone cold boredom and revulsion.
Finally, the game just looks silly. A subjective point of contention, you say! Maybe so, but I found the gritty, dark, gothic atmosphere in diablo 2 to fit a world beset by chaos, darkness, and evil far better than a bunch of cartoons in a polished, glowing dungeon. I especially hate the light without any light sources that abounds in WoW and can be seen in the diablo 3 preview, as well as the "full screen glow" graphics option they introduced in WoW that remains in diablo 3. The full screen glow effect does more than turn up the gamma: it blurs lines and textures to create an even more cartoon-like look. This same misplaced effect is clearly employed in the screenshot in the bottom left of this picture: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7807/itshouldrh5.jpg . The fixed picture in the bottom right removes this effect as well as adjusting the contrast, and the effect is absolutely drastic. It is the best "WoW influence"/"free of WoW influence" picture I've been able to find.
A word about light sources: "Creepy" blues and greens coming from nowhere are supposed to lend a sense of danger and supernatural mystery. That might work in the warcraft universe. But it does not in diablo. A light radius creates anticipation and fear of what awaits in the darkness. Seeing a couple zombies walking around in greenish light from two rooms away isn't scary in the least.
Some say that those who want diablo 3 to remain true to the franchise, nothing like wow, are waging a "war on color". That argument is patently false. The diablo 2 world abounded in color from spells, flames, boss attacks, and creature colors/clothing. What it did not have was lighting that looks like it came out of the scooby doo movie, or fairyland glow effects that blur what should be crisp and disgusting textures. What if the art direction isn't the only area in which diablo 3 resembles WoW? When fans voice a legitimate concern, such as a fundamental flaw in art and stylistic direction, it doesn't mean they complain just for the sake of complaining. We simply fear that this "new Blizzard" may fail to produce a worthy sequel to the best game of all time.
First reply: Wow not this again, we've been over this 100 times dude
Second reply: Blizz knows what it's doing, dint u c the interview were he talks bout the fan pix...plus your such a goth god look at this pic of baals throne room with a bunch of colorful spells
Third reply: play HGL if you love blizzard north so much, we love WoW, go away
Let this be our final battle
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I dont think they much care though. They lost me, one fan from the original war craft series, in exchange for thousands of ignorant new players ready to hand over their cash.
I felt D2 was too bright and colorful compared to D1, but still tolerable.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
This doesn't count as post 2
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
What they are riding on here is: despite all the other D2 clones out there, only one company can produce the true 'Heir to the Throne' of D2, Blizzard.
Having said that, i think blizzard knows they are 'surfing that wave' and to avoid the mass dissappointment of an extremely large fanbase, they are gonna have to make Diablo III absolutely perfect.
I feel kinda sorry for them, because, c'mon, put yourself in their shoes!
Look at that enormous shadow D2 cast!
Everytime i played a game that claimed it was diablo-centric, i was so critical of everything in the game, i would be put off by the slightest flaw imaginable.
That's why D3's release is pretty far-off, I'd imagine, and like I said, they have a lotta work to do IMO.
Imagine, if you will, the stress thats gonna be on every employee of blizzards head come release.
Not because of sales (it goes without saying that diablo III will be one of the best-selling PC games of all time), but because of Critical Receiption...
I dislike the green lighting too, it's the one thing that really annoys me about the art, it's not going to kill the game for me though.
As for the PvP, having a choice in PvP is what works nowadays. People get killed for no reason and discouraged from playing, that's not what Blizzard wants. It doesn't build upon a fanbase, it subtracts from it.
I don't see anything wrong with consensual PvP. If you can't take someone in a fair fight, you really have no business fighting them at all just to strut your e-go.
Though many pked lower level players for no reason, I wasn't one of them. That is simply an unfortunate side effect of a proper pvp system. Usually those jackass types aren't very good at fighting people their own level; many times I'd be killed by some level 60 sorc when my barb was still 30, then find the same player in another game at 80 and slaughter them again and again until they left.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
gamma11 > east
/agreed. Have faith in blizzard. Evryone acts like there a brand new gaming company and cant make anything good. HAVE SOME FAITH!!!!!!!!! I belive blizzard will make Diablo3 Kick A§§
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Its hypocritical to get angry because someone posted their opinion while your doing the exact same thing.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
Let it die.