Starting off around 00:01:30 speaker named Amy (no last name mentioned in video) states off the Islam is not a religion but a 'political ideology' and blatantly compares it with Communism in the former Soviet Union.
I haven't finished watching the video (as it is my homework assignment and I'm right now posting this) and I predict I will have many moments of seething anger and many facepalms in watching this.
The video is based on a construction of a Masque in my local city and I post this thread to discuss the American general public and proposed view of that Islam is not a religion.
-Anathemic One
Edit: After Amy's speech the camera turns to the public, the raised hands mean that those specific persons agree with the viewpoint/speech presented.
Edit 2: Around 00:30:00 Reverend of Islam faith speaks and people criticize him for explaining his religion whilst they are ignorant of it in the first place, hypocritical much? Ugh..
Edit 3: Around 00:43:35 John Troutman begins bashing the idea of the Masque being built and the Islam religion in general. I like the way how he says Islam is a 'pagan' religion, throwing the term around like an insult which in reality it really isn't.
It's disturbing to see people having such opinions. Everyone should be free to believe whatever he/she wants without people judging. I'm all against fanatics of either side and voicing such kinds of opinions only creates trouble on the long run.
Islam isn't just a religion: it's a very popular religion and those who actually bothered reading their writings will see many things being quite similar to Christianity.
Either way i'm totally against people being as ignorant (to say the least).
It's disturbing to see people having such opinions. Everyone should be free to believe whatever he/she wants without people judging. I'm all against fanatics of either side and voicing such kinds of opinions only creates trouble on the long run.
Exactly, statements/opinions like these in the video makes me lose my faith in humanity...
Im sorry I was just kidding, seriously though it's unbelievable that in this day and age people can still be so ignorant of other cultures. There's still a large element of our society that would probably be better off banging there chests and picking fleas off of each other.
Sometimes, I just fucking hate America. I can't wait until I graduate and get the hell out of here, this place is unbearable. Everything we do is backwards, this just proves it. We can be led so easily by our emotions and no matter how logical one side of the argument is, we will never budge. What kind of person is that? That is an ignoramus of the worst kind and I hate knowing that I share the same zip code with people who think this way.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I honestly don't get her point in all of this. How is Islam a nation? isn't Islam a religion? And this is why I too shall move away from america because the people here have absolutely no common sense.
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American politics is just... depressing. I mean, I look at the government we could be: efficient, sensible, fair. Then we get this fucking scum of the earth who say that "they are here for you, they will make things better", but once they get in power, they only aspire to keep that power while continually screwing you over with party politics. Dirty, underhanded tactics that is only meant to belittle the other side of the aisle so they can push their shitty ideology through without any resistance and I hate it. I think that, combined with the fact that the wealth gap is getting larger and larger as time goes by (thanks "Supply Side Economics"), makes me want three wishes so I can make everything not so shitty.
1. "I wish that American politics actually worked for the people, not for the pocket."
2. "I wish that we could never experience another economic downturn in any place in the world again."
3. "I wish people would vote with their heads and quit trying to shove their shitty morals down people's throat." We have special, constitutional rights that allow me to tune out your bullshit, so stop trying so hard to push your ideas down my throat to get closer to your utopia.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Just because somebody follows a religion different than your own, it doesn't justify the right to taking a nice healthy shit on their face while they sleep.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
The U.S.A. is a great nation for this exact reason. This lady can share her opinion and people can agree, or disagree. True, there are a lot of people who cannot form their own opinion and have a narrow mind, but that in no sense is a trait of only Americans; the world is full of ignorance. Anyone who sterotypes Americans as being stupid, or any other such insults, are no less closed minded as this speaker.
I can name more than a handful of people from foreign(from the U.S.) countries who have done FAR worse things than criticize a religion.
Anyways, my point being is that by bashing this women(and the other speakers), you are essentially doing exactly what she is doing (albeit on a much lesser scale).
I am in no way saying I agree with her views, but thats my opinion and she has the right to have hers too.
The U.S.A. is a great nation for this exact reason. This lady can share her opinion and people can agree, or disagree. True, there are a lot of people who cannot form their own opinion and have a narrow mind, but that in no sense is a trait of only Americans; the world is full of ignorance. Anyone who sterotypes Americans as being stupid, or any other such insults, are no less closed minded as this speaker.
I can name more than a handful of people from foreign(from the U.S.) countries who have done FAR worse things than criticize a religion.
Anyways, my point being is that by bashing this women(and the other speakers), you are essentially doing exactly what she is doing (albeit on a much lesser scale).
I am in no way saying I agree with her views, but thats my opinion and she has the right to have hers too.
No, that's the reality. Organized religion, which is pretty much the only kind of religion the term usually refers to as far as the law (and this forum's rules) go, is generally a pretty strict philosophy construct. I believe the Jewish version has a whole huge set of specific laws, even.
It's not in any way different from any other philosophy construct that may or may not include faith (and most philosophies rely on some degree of faith, just not necessarily in a creator). The only difference is, you are allowed to bash MY philosophy construct, but you're not allowed to bash Christianity or Islam, because, see, they are popular, old, and they are registered, and that gives them the status of "religion". Which is why I'm entirely open to religion bashing. Anyone can bash mine. Protecting based on popularity is just way too primitive to me, and that's all this is.
Religion is supposed to complete your life, not to dominate it. Religion as a generalized way of life ended with the dark ages that is caused.
Organized religion cannot complete life. It effectively overrides it.
I'm sorry, but if you just go to church and when you return home the ideas of "do not kill" or "love your fellow man" do not define how you go about your life, and if you haven't read your own holy book, you're simply not a Christian. You're what I call a false Christian. What's ironic is that your beliefs are still protected even though what you believe in is not Christianity. It's bullshit. Total, absolute bullshit.
We get a fair amount of Christianity in American politics. This woman is refusing to look the other way, which really bothers me. I mean, with this "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" debate going on, a lot of people look to their Bibles because, hey, it's the word of their god. I have no problem with that, but once they start using their beliefs to impair the rights of others (such as a homosexual serving for their country), that's when it crosses a line that shouldn't ever be crossed. We do not have a complete separation between Church and State in the U.S and it terrifies me. Like, could you imagine living in a Theocracy? For me, it'd be hell because I'd be in a place where I didn't feel like a belonged because of the way I think (there's also this debate between "real Americans". It's called "I'm a better American than you").
Oh yeah, moving to Finland.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I didnt even watch the video but i said "Disturbing" because saying that Islam is not a religion is just like saying that the Chinese are not human beings. I dont know... the ignorance and insensetivity is what disturbs me. I dont have anything against Chinese people i jsut used it as an example.
What would have happened if an American Muslim would have said, just like this lady, that Christianity is not a religion? I dont think people would be that happy that their country offers this great freedom of speech.
What would have happened if an American Muslim would have said, just like this lady, that Christianity is not a religion? I dont think people would be that happy that their country offers this great freedom of speech.Just a thought.
A shitstorm like you would not believe. In Oregon, people burned down a Mosque because the feds caught a guy who wanted to commit terrorism at a Christmas tree lighting. An agent went under some persona and they hooked the guy up with bombs that wouldn't detonate, so they were able to catch him red handed and arrest him.
But, knowing the level of ignorance some Americans carry towards Islam, they actually would burn down a Mosque.
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I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
I never said anything about being a (good) Christian. You just assumed that, which pretty much is a trait of all religions (and of some religious people): the assumption of righteousness and the idea that everyone should just follow your believes.
The only religious folk that are worth bashing on religion basis are the folk that follow the religion correctly. Otherwise, you're just bashing people for doing what people do.
My beliefs are not Christian. Come again? Christianity does have a pretty clear set of things a person can't do. There are some things that you can argue in it but the "do not hate and love your brother" is pretty clear in there. There's nothing confusing there about that. There's nothing confusing about the 10 Commandments, either. If you do not follow that, you're not a Christian, because it's fundamental to what Christianity is. When you bash people who do not follow that, again, you're not bashing Christians. When people go and create a new church that doesn't follow these commandments (most of churches), it's not Christian. Yeah, it's pretty damn hard to follow, just as it's supposed to be.
The majority of the folk you like to bash is not religious. If everyone who you call religious actually WAS religious the world would be a wonderful place.
Anyway, I am an atheist and I strongly believe that what you call "organized religion" is something that we (as a society) have thankfully put behind us.
Organized religion is the #1 form of religion in the world today. Most religious people go to a church of some kind, and these religions are shared, adapted from preexisting sources, not self-developed. You being an atheist has nothing to do with this discussion, btw.
If there's a church, if there's a set of laws, and if there's a same thing that a large number of people adhere to, that religion is organized. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all organized religions and they do not really exist in any other way because there has always been the concept of building churches and having priests/pastors/whatever and teaching people to practice the right way, and overall there's a set way of doing things, and even the spinoffs of Christianity are also almost always organized (except Quakers maybe).
An example of a religion without the organized part is basically the "I believe in god. The end.", for instance. It's not a philosophical construct in that case, and people are not united under it because there's nothing to unite under.
"Organized religion" is just a way to gain political domination by abusing people's trust (and, for most of the time, their ignorance and lack of culture).
No, that's separation of church and state.
"Organized religion" is an existing term with specific meaning (religion followed by a whole bunch of people in a systematic fashion) and you really have no business redefining it. It's also very much alive.
Inquisition (torture, persecution), wars, social inequality (women right anyone?), religious law (cutting arms?) are just a few of the "gifts" we get when religion (well, more like its institution, the church) is allowed to mess with the society too much.
Man, not religion, is responsible for these things. Religion can be used as a tool but show me something that can't be used as a tool. Stupidity has always been the root of all evil, stupidity and complacency and the inability to defend what is yours.
Religion has its part to play in a modern society and there is no denying that it does good, but it needs to be kept in check.
I do not recall protecting religion or saying it does good anywhere in my posts. ? My whole argument was against the idea that people shouldn't bash the philosophical constructs that organized religions are.
I do not agree. Just as someone can bash my philosophy (i.e., satanism, for instance), I can bash their philosophy (their religion). I don't see why religions are somehow magically protected from that. You're not going to convince me that people do not look down at fully religious sects that sacrifice virgins. Or any sects, for that matter. It's all a matter of popularity and social acceptance.
bashing the action taken by "religious" people is more than justified. More clearly, I can't judge Islam as a religion, that would be ridiculous on my part, but I will judge what individual Muslims do.
I believe I can judge both. Just when I judge the person I don't really care what religion they're a member of because they probably don't follow their religion properly anyway.
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Link to video
Starting off around 00:01:30 speaker named Amy (no last name mentioned in video) states off the Islam is not a religion but a 'political ideology' and blatantly compares it with Communism in the former Soviet Union.
I haven't finished watching the video (as it is my homework assignment and I'm right now posting this) and I predict I will have many moments of seething anger and many facepalms in watching this.
The video is based on a construction of a Masque in my local city and I post this thread to discuss the American general public and proposed view of that Islam is not a religion.
-Anathemic One
Edit: After Amy's speech the camera turns to the public, the raised hands mean that those specific persons agree with the viewpoint/speech presented.
Edit 2: Around 00:30:00 Reverend of Islam faith speaks and people criticize him for explaining his religion whilst they are ignorant of it in the first place, hypocritical much? Ugh..
Edit 3: Around 00:43:35 John Troutman begins bashing the idea of the Masque being built and the Islam religion in general. I like the way how he says Islam is a 'pagan' religion, throwing the term around like an insult which in reality it really isn't.
Islam isn't just a religion: it's a very popular religion and those who actually bothered reading their writings will see many things being quite similar to Christianity.
Either way i'm totally against people being as ignorant (to say the least).
Exactly, statements/opinions like these in the video makes me lose my faith in humanity...
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Sometimes, I just fucking hate America. I can't wait until I graduate and get the hell out of here, this place is unbearable. Everything we do is backwards, this just proves it. We can be led so easily by our emotions and no matter how logical one side of the argument is, we will never budge. What kind of person is that? That is an ignoramus of the worst kind and I hate knowing that I share the same zip code with people who think this way.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
1. "I wish that American politics actually worked for the people, not for the pocket."
2. "I wish that we could never experience another economic downturn in any place in the world again."
3. "I wish people would vote with their heads and quit trying to shove their shitty morals down people's throat." We have special, constitutional rights that allow me to tune out your bullshit, so stop trying so hard to push your ideas down my throat to get closer to your utopia.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
Out of curiosity, where are you going to move?
I can name more than a handful of people from foreign(from the U.S.) countries who have done FAR worse things than criticize a religion.
Anyways, my point being is that by bashing this women(and the other speakers), you are essentially doing exactly what she is doing (albeit on a much lesser scale).
I am in no way saying I agree with her views, but thats my opinion and she has the right to have hers too.
Absolutely.
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It's not in any way different from any other philosophy construct that may or may not include faith (and most philosophies rely on some degree of faith, just not necessarily in a creator). The only difference is, you are allowed to bash MY philosophy construct, but you're not allowed to bash Christianity or Islam, because, see, they are popular, old, and they are registered, and that gives them the status of "religion". Which is why I'm entirely open to religion bashing. Anyone can bash mine. Protecting based on popularity is just way too primitive to me, and that's all this is.
Organized religion cannot complete life. It effectively overrides it.
I'm sorry, but if you just go to church and when you return home the ideas of "do not kill" or "love your fellow man" do not define how you go about your life, and if you haven't read your own holy book, you're simply not a Christian. You're what I call a false Christian. What's ironic is that your beliefs are still protected even though what you believe in is not Christianity. It's bullshit. Total, absolute bullshit.
Oh yeah, moving to Finland.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
What would have happened if an American Muslim would have said, just like this lady, that Christianity is not a religion? I dont think people would be that happy that their country offers this great freedom of speech.
Just a thought.
A shitstorm like you would not believe. In Oregon, people burned down a Mosque because the feds caught a guy who wanted to commit terrorism at a Christmas tree lighting. An agent went under some persona and they hooked the guy up with bombs that wouldn't detonate, so they were able to catch him red handed and arrest him.
But, knowing the level of ignorance some Americans carry towards Islam, they actually would burn down a Mosque.
I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
My beliefs are not Christian. Come again? Christianity does have a pretty clear set of things a person can't do. There are some things that you can argue in it but the "do not hate and love your brother" is pretty clear in there. There's nothing confusing there about that. There's nothing confusing about the 10 Commandments, either. If you do not follow that, you're not a Christian, because it's fundamental to what Christianity is. When you bash people who do not follow that, again, you're not bashing Christians. When people go and create a new church that doesn't follow these commandments (most of churches), it's not Christian. Yeah, it's pretty damn hard to follow, just as it's supposed to be.
The majority of the folk you like to bash is not religious. If everyone who you call religious actually WAS religious the world would be a wonderful place.
Organized religion is the #1 form of religion in the world today. Most religious people go to a church of some kind, and these religions are shared, adapted from preexisting sources, not self-developed. You being an atheist has nothing to do with this discussion, btw.
If there's a church, if there's a set of laws, and if there's a same thing that a large number of people adhere to, that religion is organized. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all organized religions and they do not really exist in any other way because there has always been the concept of building churches and having priests/pastors/whatever and teaching people to practice the right way, and overall there's a set way of doing things, and even the spinoffs of Christianity are also almost always organized (except Quakers maybe).
An example of a religion without the organized part is basically the "I believe in god. The end.", for instance. It's not a philosophical construct in that case, and people are not united under it because there's nothing to unite under.
No, that's separation of church and state.
"Organized religion" is an existing term with specific meaning (religion followed by a whole bunch of people in a systematic fashion) and you really have no business redefining it. It's also very much alive.
Man, not religion, is responsible for these things. Religion can be used as a tool but show me something that can't be used as a tool. Stupidity has always been the root of all evil, stupidity and complacency and the inability to defend what is yours.
I do not recall protecting religion or saying it does good anywhere in my posts. ? My whole argument was against the idea that people shouldn't bash the philosophical constructs that organized religions are.
I do not agree. Just as someone can bash my philosophy (i.e., satanism, for instance), I can bash their philosophy (their religion). I don't see why religions are somehow magically protected from that. You're not going to convince me that people do not look down at fully religious sects that sacrifice virgins. Or any sects, for that matter. It's all a matter of popularity and social acceptance.
I believe I can judge both. Just when I judge the person I don't really care what religion they're a member of because they probably don't follow their religion properly anyway.