I'm much more worried about backwards racism (I think it was called reversed bias). The fact that there should be a certain amount of black people in a school is ridiculous.
But I don't see it anywhere around myself. Louisville, Kentucky, Dayton, Ohio, Fair Lawn, New Jersey - no racism noticed. Perhaps I'm looking the wrong way.
Racism comes from ingorance, perhaps we should pay our attention to that more.
Well racism can certainly be attributed to more than just ignorance. It can also be attributed to things dating back to the Civil War and Reconstruction period. I'm surprised you haven't seen any racism around New Jersey. New Jersey has the number one largest KKK following. In fact, the cops are racist as hell around here. My brother got pulled over for driving while brown. They do very subtle things. In fact, my girlfriend and I got pulled over when, we were driving back to school for having an obstructed license plate, because of the frame. And he didn't even give us a ticket for it, which proves that's why he wasn't pulling us over.
I don't know of any black minimum policy. Although people like Al Sharpton make racism an issue in situations when that's the least of our problems.
Although I must say, reverse racism is hardly as prevalent as full-blown racism.
Hmm, there's obviously a lot one could say about racism. I'll do my best to keep my focus narrowed. I'll also speak mostly about the U.S. since besides what I read about in other countries, I'm really not sure how racism is affecting others around the rest of the world.
Here in the U.S., while there is obviously large quantities of individual racism, a lot of institutional racism has been remedied. But where it still exists in the arena of politics, it is slightly more nuanced and subtle than it used to be. For example, obviously no one is trying to keep black and white students in seperate schools, but other domestic and national policies have some mildly racist overtones to them. Whiles issues such as immigration, national security, and welfare reform have good reasoning behind them, somewhere along the line there are doses of racism especially towards Hispanics, blacks, and Arabs.
The good thing about affirmative action in the U.S. is that it is moving away from being race-based to being class-based. Many proponents of affirmative acttion, especially black ones, acknowledge that equality needs to be approached as a matter of class, and warn that doing so purely based on race only furthers stereotypes, racism, and segregation. The advantage of class-based affirmative action is that you're attacking inequality in a more comprehensive and fair way for all races while subsequently fixing problems connected to race. There are poor people in America of all different races and it is now to the point that all those people must be assisted equally and not consider their race as a factor of that assistance. To do so risks moving to the point of reverse discrimination.
At any rate, the U.S. still has a lot of demons in its past to exorcise, but I don't think it would be too naive of me to say that we've come a long way in making things more equal for all races. And even for those who do suffer from inequality, that suffrage is based now more on being of a different class, not of a different race; class inequality is still an issue however that America needs to deal more with without going overboard into a heavily socialistic model of government.
America has changed a lot. We are ready for a female or black president as both Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama have very good chances at the White House. Just forty years ago, the notion of a black president would still have been ludicrous. But now it is not just possible, but very probable.
However, I'm still concerned about how racist many individuals are in the U.S. I'm often subjected to people's racist comments about Hispanics and Arabs and I get so tired of people talking about illegal immigrants or terrorists by making the vaguest generalizations about entire races.
Immigration is more of a wedge issue. Mainly used by politicians to rally votes, despite opposition on other issues. And discrimination of Arabs and Southwest Asians pisses me off. As a half-Pakistani person, it's annoying to hear people make racist jokes. At first, I just kicked their asses, but it happens so often now, that it's just not worth it to pay attention to.
I've never had to look for racism. I'm assuming that as a white person, no one just comes up to you and yells nigger or pulls you over to tell you how much they hate Arabs, Jews, blacks, etc.
Well, Sianoq, perhaps you live in an uncivilized area.
I don't think anyone comes up to anyone and attacks them like that. I don't imagine that happening. Living in bad places? Especially considering how every damn Jew or whoever keeps brawling "hey, that's racist, that's very bad" up to "you are a very bad person". Really. Even whites start to say that now.
I think you are making this up or overimagining it. Sorry. Not in America.
so expressing it is bad, but thinking it is normal? (not being sarcastic, really)
Thinking is your own business, you can think whatever you want. There is nothing I can do with the fact that 97% of Chinese look ugly to me. And I probably look ugly to them. Nothing I can do with the fact that I don't like the language many black people are using and I end up associating black people with that language. Wrong or not, there is always the "most, least", factor.
But I won't go around stalking Chinese and saying "oh, you are so ugly, I don't want you here". Because that behavior is very different. That is why I refer it to ignorance. Why would you come up to a person and tell him he's ugly? There is only one reason. Pride Which is lame. I see no reason why would anyone say that to any person, whether he thinks so or not. And the only reason those kind of people attack Chinese in particular instead of all other ugly people is because they want an excuse. That's what I think. I don't think it goes any deeper than that...
Is it right to say that racism falls under discrimination? (i know racism is partly a emotional issue)
I hate discrimination (positive or negative) but a world without any discrimination is an impossible utopia (unless we got assimilated by borg or something)
Discrimination is the expression of things such as racism that involves the attacking of a group of people.
Quote from "Equinox" »
I think you are making this up or overimagining it. Sorry. Not in America.
Speaking of ignorance...
Racism and discrimination is natural. Humans generaly don't like those that don't look/behave the same way.
Open and ignorant racism is the bad thing...
Are you trying to tell me that racism can be acceptable? And how is just plain racism any different from "ignorant" racism? They're both bad.
Nothing I can do with the fact that I don't like the language many black people are using and I end up associating black people with that language. Wrong or not, there is always the "most, least", factor.
Those are called sweeping generalizations. And those are some of the things that piss me off the most.
Looks like someone doesn't like Chinese people. Racist!
But I won't go around stalking Chinese and saying "oh, you are so ugly, I don't want you here". Because that behavior is very different. That is why I refer it to ignorance. Why would you come up to a person and tell him he's ugly? There is only one reason. Pride Which is lame. I see no reason why would anyone say that to any person, whether he thinks so or not. And the only reason those kind of people attack Chinese in particular instead of all other ugly people is because they want an excuse. That's what I think. I don't think it goes any deeper than that...
If you are racist, you are ignorant. They go hand in hand. There is no logical reason to hate people of any color, class, or religion. To say otherwise is ignorant (get it?).
Pride is not a reason to be racist. It's a reason to have self-confidence. Nothing more.
Lets say you would work for a modeling agency and a chinese person would apply for a job, is it ok to turn that person down because you find almost all chinese people ugly, or is it ok to turn her/him down if you only find that particular chinese person ugly, or is it ok to turn her down because she/he is ugly or doesnt fit the model standards?
I find it very hard to draw a line.
I said to you. Twice. I don't express my racist thoughts. I'm not turning people down because I don't like how they look very much. I can talk to them freely, I can touch them with no problem, share with them, whatever (among the things that I, as a high school student, can do). I don't feel any hate or disgust. I just think they are ugly. Will you not hire a person just because she is ugly? I don't think you would care. A normal manager only cares about the productivity, anyway. I don't THINK about it.
Are you trying to tell me that racism can be acceptable? And how is just plain racism any different from "ignorant" racism? They're both bad.
Racism is acceptable. You cannot destroy it. It's just there. It's nature. I'm glad that you are crystal clear and that all people are beautiful to you and that all people's customs are close to you. I'm not that kind of a person. And I will never be.
Ignorant racism brings unhappiness to other people. And racism in my mind has no effect on things at all. Except that I don't imagine myself dating a Chinese guy. But that is my business entirely.
Quote from "muttonchops" »
Those are called sweeping generalizations. And those are some of the things that piss me off the most.
Nah. And I don't exactly care what does or does not piss YOU off.
Quote from "muttonchops" »
Looks like someone doesn't like Chinese people. Racist!
Yes. I never denied that.
Quote from "muttonchops" »
If you are racist, you are ignorant. They go hand in hand. There is no logical reason to hate people of any color, class, or religion. To say otherwise is ignorant (get it?).
I do not believe they go hand in hand. Nor do I hate anybody. I think we reached perpendicularity.
Quote from "muttonchops" »
Pride is not a reason to be racist. It's a reason to have self-confidence. Nothing more.
Why would a person be actively racist, if not for pride?
wich means your underlying "emotions" and "feelings" about things do play a role (without you wanting it to play a role probably)
Well, if they are underlying emotions, and if you say, that I can't control them, well, I can't control them, so it's not my fault. I really don't understand where would such stuff come from.
Well, in order for it to dig in into the subconciousness it has to become something more... I don't know. Anyway, this doesn't go into my subconciousness, for sure.
Well, Sianoq, perhaps you live in an uncivilized area.
I don't think anyone comes up to anyone and attacks them like that. I don't imagine that happening. Living in bad places? Especially considering how every damn Jew or whoever keeps brawling "hey, that's racist, that's very bad" up to "you are a very bad person". Really. Even whites start to say that now.
I think you are making this up or overimagining it. Sorry. Not in America.
Well, Equino, I think where I live is civilized enough. The kind of racism I see is usually people saying incindiary things about another race, not attacking them directly. We don't get the average "fork in the eye" incidents around here very much.
I also don't think anyone is saying they're completely without prejudice or racism. I have very racist thoughts sometimes. But instead of just accepting those thoughts, I choose to explore them sometimes. I ask myself how I came to those conclusions, and whether they remain unfounded or not. I'll ask myself if I really still feel that way. I'll explore what I hate about my own people and ask if it's any different than what I hate about other people.
A strange conclusion I came to one day is that I kind of hate all races equally, including mine. Or in other words, I just kind of hate people collectively and would rather get to know people as individuals, not as members of a group. I never expect other people to feel this way, really. It's just how I feel.
But I have felt pity from time to time toward people who hate this race or that race. Mostly because they don't realize what interesting cultures and information they might be missing out on since their hatreds are based on those vague generalizations and are devoid of any real logic. It's the tragedy of information lost; this makes me feel sorry for them.
A strange conclusion I came to one day is that I kind of hate all races equally, including mine. Or in other words, I just kind of hate people collectively and would rather get to know people as individuals, not as members of a group. I never expect other people to feel this way, really. It's just how I feel.
Lol, I read a poster in an English classroom that said, "I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally." So someone else out there shares your opinion;), unless that was you who made that poster:confused:.
Personally I have a lot of mixed feelings about racism. It is natural, we all have certain prejudice and opinions about everything but like Doppelganger said we shouldn't let those out in extreme ways.
Well, Equino, I think where I live is civilized enough. The kind of racism I see is usually people saying incindiary things about another race, not attacking them directly. We don't get the average "fork in the eye" incidents around here very much.
I also don't think anyone is saying they're completely without prejudice or racism. I have very racist thoughts sometimes. But instead of just accepting those thoughts, I choose to explore them sometimes. I ask myself how I came to those conclusions, and whether they remain unfounded or not. I'll ask myself if I really still feel that way. I'll explore what I hate about my own people and ask if it's any different than what I hate about other people.
A strange conclusion I came to one day is that I kind of hate all races equally, including mine. Or in other words, I just kind of hate people collectively and would rather get to know people as individuals, not as members of a group. I never expect other people to feel this way, really. It's just how I feel.
But I have felt pity from time to time toward people who hate this race or that race. Mostly because they don't realize what interesting cultures and information they might be missing out on since their hatreds are based on those vague generalizations and are devoid of any real logic. It's the tragedy of information lost; this makes me feel sorry for them.
As I thought, you are exxagerating. If someone is offended at a racist joke about them, they have way too much pride. If the person said that straight to them, he's just an idiot. Most generalizations are true, anyway. About my races/nations, at least. Racism? Peh. Racism is more serious than that. Of course, I guess, jokes and generalizations are still racism (not for me, though), but when I hear that word, I imagine something more effective.
Well, that only springs up when you actually hate somebody, and I don't know why anyone would hate a group of people, doesn't make sense to me...
Well, yeah, the problem is, we see a Jew being a jerk, and we may think Jews are all like that, then we see a ton more Jews, and they are still all like that, so you really don't leave much space for the "there are normal Jews out there".
Well, I'm certainly not interested in cultures where women are terribly diminished and where a person would rather kill his child than lose some family pride or whatever. Some cultures are very interesting. Some are just barbaric.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
yea thats it, lol, couldnt remember it.
Anyways, i dont think true racism is something you choose, i think it has to have deep roots in our subconciouns, it has to be a deep underlying hatred, not a simple superficial hatred.
There has to be something drastically in racists underlying thoughts so that hate for them is the only possible solution to vent these "thoughts".
Everyone vents there underlying thoughts in one way or another.
Its when extremes are involved that it gets "noticed", and then we call such a person a racist, not because we arent racists, but because that persons action/reaction on other races goes into the extremes in his/her subconcious.
This is all my thoughts, so they may not be true.
You don't get "deep underlying hatred" out of thin air. Something has to happen. Afterwards, you either forgive or you don't. If you don't, you have problems.
That's an anger management problem. If someone has to vent themselves in racist violence... meh.
That's what I was saying. You are not really a true racist until you actually start expressing it.
As I thought, you are exxagerating. If someone is offended at a racist joke about them, they have way too much pride. If the person said that straight to them, he's just an idiot. Most generalizations are true, anyway. About my races/nations, at least. Racism? Peh. Racism is more serious than that. Of course, I guess, jokes and generalizations are still racism (not for me, though), but when I hear that word, I imagine something more effective.
Not really sure how I was exaggerating. I was telling you that I see racist attitudes all the time where I live. Maybe not to the extent of overt violence to other races, but I'm sure it still happens. For example, where I'm at, many people hate Hispanics, especially Mexicans. For the most part, they express their hatred toward them by making generalizations about them being lazy, dirty, and stupid. But my point is that when they say those things about them, I'm thinking, yeah, but white people are just as much that way too.
Quote from "Equinox" »
Well, yeah, the problem is, we see a Jew being a jerk, and we may think Jews are all like that, then we see a ton more Jews, and they are still all like that, so you really don't leave much space for the "there are normal Jews out there".
Or another example is how you clearly have a distaste for Jews. And you say you dislike them because not just one of them is acting like a jerk, but a ton are acting like jerks. My question to you then is, do you think they're collectively acting like jerks because they're Jews? Or are they just like most humans and act like jerks anyway? And is it all just them being a jerk to you? Are you being nice to them or just employing some form of defensive minimalism? And it's not just you seeing a Jew be a jerk, but "we" seeing a Jew be a jerk. Are you eluding to some group that you belong to?
And even if you wish to realize there's an exception in the form of a normal Jew, will you see that person as an individual or merely as a part of a group who could only possibly be a certain way because of the group they belong to?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Well, I'm certainly not interested in cultures where women are terribly diminished and where a person would rather kill his child than lose some family pride or whatever. Some cultures are very interesting. Some are just barbaric.
Fair enough. At some point when talking about all this we must put ourselves in a position to judge, right? Cause in my opinion, there are particular cultures that I find barbaric and oppressive. An ultra-liberal might say then to me, "Well, who are you to judge?" And I would say I have no idea who I am to judge, but that I'm compelled to nonetheless. Perhaps because at some point, with my own personal belief system, I have to eventually decide what I think is right and wrong. Or plainly illogical, such as killing a women in order to retain family honor.
I think it's important too to realize that as we are talking about race, ethnicity, cultures, etc, at some point we're going to be immersed in our own hypocrisy. I think I'm very hypocritical when talking about racism; but I see no way of avoiding it. It is also difficult for me to know sometimes if I'm speaking with my heart about these things or with my mind. I wish to be as logical as I can when addressing racism, since I do think racism is ostensibly illogical. But I have personal feelings about these issues that sometimes defy logic and I become defensive when trying to address why I'm so emotional about it. Cause obviously it's easier to flail about with our emotions than trying to break down these complicated issues using objective discourse.
When I think about Palestine and its tumultuous state, I wonder, how can those people possibly solve those problems logically when things are happening everyday that rile people's emotions and never their logic? If someone's family member or friend is killed either by a Hamas rocket or an Israeli raid, how can people not react purely on emotion, exacerbated by generations of hate? The world seems to rock back and forth in its progress toward being peaceful and without hate. And Equinox has a valid point that humans generally don't like other humans who look and behave differently. And that dislike is based on fear. And that fear comes from being ignorant. How does one overcome ignorance? I don't know, really.
But I don't see it anywhere around myself. Louisville, Kentucky, Dayton, Ohio, Fair Lawn, New Jersey - no racism noticed. Perhaps I'm looking the wrong way.
Racism comes from ingorance, perhaps we should pay our attention to that more.
I don't know of any black minimum policy. Although people like Al Sharpton make racism an issue in situations when that's the least of our problems.
Although I must say, reverse racism is hardly as prevalent as full-blown racism.
Here in the U.S., while there is obviously large quantities of individual racism, a lot of institutional racism has been remedied. But where it still exists in the arena of politics, it is slightly more nuanced and subtle than it used to be. For example, obviously no one is trying to keep black and white students in seperate schools, but other domestic and national policies have some mildly racist overtones to them. Whiles issues such as immigration, national security, and welfare reform have good reasoning behind them, somewhere along the line there are doses of racism especially towards Hispanics, blacks, and Arabs.
The good thing about affirmative action in the U.S. is that it is moving away from being race-based to being class-based. Many proponents of affirmative acttion, especially black ones, acknowledge that equality needs to be approached as a matter of class, and warn that doing so purely based on race only furthers stereotypes, racism, and segregation. The advantage of class-based affirmative action is that you're attacking inequality in a more comprehensive and fair way for all races while subsequently fixing problems connected to race. There are poor people in America of all different races and it is now to the point that all those people must be assisted equally and not consider their race as a factor of that assistance. To do so risks moving to the point of reverse discrimination.
At any rate, the U.S. still has a lot of demons in its past to exorcise, but I don't think it would be too naive of me to say that we've come a long way in making things more equal for all races. And even for those who do suffer from inequality, that suffrage is based now more on being of a different class, not of a different race; class inequality is still an issue however that America needs to deal more with without going overboard into a heavily socialistic model of government.
America has changed a lot. We are ready for a female or black president as both Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama have very good chances at the White House. Just forty years ago, the notion of a black president would still have been ludicrous. But now it is not just possible, but very probable.
However, I'm still concerned about how racist many individuals are in the U.S. I'm often subjected to people's racist comments about Hispanics and Arabs and I get so tired of people talking about illegal immigrants or terrorists by making the vaguest generalizations about entire races.
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I've never had to look for racism. I'm assuming that as a white person, no one just comes up to you and yells nigger or pulls you over to tell you how much they hate Arabs, Jews, blacks, etc.
I don't think anyone comes up to anyone and attacks them like that. I don't imagine that happening. Living in bad places? Especially considering how every damn Jew or whoever keeps brawling "hey, that's racist, that's very bad" up to "you are a very bad person". Really. Even whites start to say that now.
I think you are making this up or overimagining it. Sorry. Not in America.
Open and ignorant racism is the bad thing...
But I won't go around stalking Chinese and saying "oh, you are so ugly, I don't want you here". Because that behavior is very different. That is why I refer it to ignorance. Why would you come up to a person and tell him he's ugly? There is only one reason. Pride Which is lame. I see no reason why would anyone say that to any person, whether he thinks so or not. And the only reason those kind of people attack Chinese in particular instead of all other ugly people is because they want an excuse. That's what I think. I don't think it goes any deeper than that...
Discrimination is the expression of things such as racism that involves the attacking of a group of people.
Speaking of ignorance...
Are you trying to tell me that racism can be acceptable? And how is just plain racism any different from "ignorant" racism? They're both bad.
Those are called sweeping generalizations. And those are some of the things that piss me off the most.
Looks like someone doesn't like Chinese people. Racist!
If you are racist, you are ignorant. They go hand in hand. There is no logical reason to hate people of any color, class, or religion. To say otherwise is ignorant (get it?).
Pride is not a reason to be racist. It's a reason to have self-confidence. Nothing more.
Ignorant racism brings unhappiness to other people. And racism in my mind has no effect on things at all. Except that I don't imagine myself dating a Chinese guy. But that is my business entirely.
Nah. And I don't exactly care what does or does not piss YOU off.
Yes. I never denied that.
I do not believe they go hand in hand. Nor do I hate anybody. I think we reached perpendicularity.
Why would a person be actively racist, if not for pride?
Pride != self-confidence.
I also don't think anyone is saying they're completely without prejudice or racism. I have very racist thoughts sometimes. But instead of just accepting those thoughts, I choose to explore them sometimes. I ask myself how I came to those conclusions, and whether they remain unfounded or not. I'll ask myself if I really still feel that way. I'll explore what I hate about my own people and ask if it's any different than what I hate about other people.
A strange conclusion I came to one day is that I kind of hate all races equally, including mine. Or in other words, I just kind of hate people collectively and would rather get to know people as individuals, not as members of a group. I never expect other people to feel this way, really. It's just how I feel.
But I have felt pity from time to time toward people who hate this race or that race. Mostly because they don't realize what interesting cultures and information they might be missing out on since their hatreds are based on those vague generalizations and are devoid of any real logic. It's the tragedy of information lost; this makes me feel sorry for them.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Lol, I read a poster in an English classroom that said, "I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally." So someone else out there shares your opinion;), unless that was you who made that poster:confused:.
Personally I have a lot of mixed feelings about racism. It is natural, we all have certain prejudice and opinions about everything but like Doppelganger said we shouldn't let those out in extreme ways.
Well, that only springs up when you actually hate somebody, and I don't know why anyone would hate a group of people, doesn't make sense to me...
Well, yeah, the problem is, we see a Jew being a jerk, and we may think Jews are all like that, then we see a ton more Jews, and they are still all like that, so you really don't leave much space for the "there are normal Jews out there".
Well, I'm certainly not interested in cultures where women are terribly diminished and where a person would rather kill his child than lose some family pride or whatever. Some cultures are very interesting. Some are just barbaric.
You don't get "deep underlying hatred" out of thin air. Something has to happen. Afterwards, you either forgive or you don't. If you don't, you have problems.
That's an anger management problem. If someone has to vent themselves in racist violence... meh.
That's what I was saying. You are not really a true racist until you actually start expressing it.
In any case, I can always just reframe.
Sorry for being somewhat emotional, but it's the truth
Or another example is how you clearly have a distaste for Jews. And you say you dislike them because not just one of them is acting like a jerk, but a ton are acting like jerks. My question to you then is, do you think they're collectively acting like jerks because they're Jews? Or are they just like most humans and act like jerks anyway? And is it all just them being a jerk to you? Are you being nice to them or just employing some form of defensive minimalism? And it's not just you seeing a Jew be a jerk, but "we" seeing a Jew be a jerk. Are you eluding to some group that you belong to?
And even if you wish to realize there's an exception in the form of a normal Jew, will you see that person as an individual or merely as a part of a group who could only possibly be a certain way because of the group they belong to?
Fair enough. At some point when talking about all this we must put ourselves in a position to judge, right? Cause in my opinion, there are particular cultures that I find barbaric and oppressive. An ultra-liberal might say then to me, "Well, who are you to judge?" And I would say I have no idea who I am to judge, but that I'm compelled to nonetheless. Perhaps because at some point, with my own personal belief system, I have to eventually decide what I think is right and wrong. Or plainly illogical, such as killing a women in order to retain family honor.
I think it's important too to realize that as we are talking about race, ethnicity, cultures, etc, at some point we're going to be immersed in our own hypocrisy. I think I'm very hypocritical when talking about racism; but I see no way of avoiding it. It is also difficult for me to know sometimes if I'm speaking with my heart about these things or with my mind. I wish to be as logical as I can when addressing racism, since I do think racism is ostensibly illogical. But I have personal feelings about these issues that sometimes defy logic and I become defensive when trying to address why I'm so emotional about it. Cause obviously it's easier to flail about with our emotions than trying to break down these complicated issues using objective discourse.
When I think about Palestine and its tumultuous state, I wonder, how can those people possibly solve those problems logically when things are happening everyday that rile people's emotions and never their logic? If someone's family member or friend is killed either by a Hamas rocket or an Israeli raid, how can people not react purely on emotion, exacerbated by generations of hate? The world seems to rock back and forth in its progress toward being peaceful and without hate. And Equinox has a valid point that humans generally don't like other humans who look and behave differently. And that dislike is based on fear. And that fear comes from being ignorant. How does one overcome ignorance? I don't know, really.
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