Umpa, you are obviously very... passionate... in your stance and have turned a debate into a personal attack on myself. If you really feel that evolution is false, and God truly created the Heavens and the Earth, then you are entitled to your opinion. Sadly, in my experience with trying to have intelligent conversation with religious people about this, they get extremely defensive and fanatical in their position.
I am choosing to end this conversation with you now because while I am making an argument for the 99.9% of evolution which is proven true, you are hung up on the 0.1% that is yet to be proven. All people have the right to believe what they want, and hold on to any sliver of faith, no matter how small. If you only look for things wrong with a theory and automatically dismiss any factual evidence supporting it, then your views will be biased. Who knows, maybe you're right and I will burn in a firey Hell of misery for all eternity because I took the time and kept an open mind when taking into account all the facts, and dismissing God as another 'Santa' or 'Toothfairy'.
Umpa please don't reply to this. I've seen debates like this reach their conclusion and unfortunately the facts are left out while flaming dominates. I do not expect people who have lived their entire youth surrounded by religion (Church, religious friends, religious parents, and general community acceptance of fact) to suddenly jump ship. Let's just both agree to disagree. Thank you.
see i have to reply because of your attempt to make me seem fanatical. good job editing my quote saying that i have no problems with evolution and that i think it very plausible. I know the flaws to both sides, i never attacked you, i pointed out flaws in your argument and that you clearly dont know what your talking about.
I dont look for the things wrong with a theory YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A FLAW ROFL. so i did and apparently it made you sad face because you didnt even respond to my response to your own request. I clearly stated that evolution was ok by me as of now, maybe you should read my entire post
In many cases Linkx.....very true, but i still dont see the point. if it's that theres no way the bible could be true cuz of all the cruelty that is plausible, but it could also be that there is agod and it is just the sad world we live in and how we are. Like in song reference and movie reference ive seen many put existence with the idea of god in a very depressing transcendental way of looking at it. Such as "god is just a kid with an ant farm" and things like that. I dont support this idea but ya never know, ya know?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
see i have to reply because of your attempt to make me seem fanatical. good job editing my quote saying that i have no problems with evolution and that i think it very plausible. I know the flaws to both sides, i never attacked you, i pointed out flaws in your argument and that you clearly dont know what your talking about.
I dont look for the things wrong with a theory YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A FLAW ROFL. so i did and apparently it made you sad face because you didnt even respond to my response to your own request. I clearly stated that evolution was ok by me as of now, maybe you should read my entire post
I didn't edit anything, I cut out the part that wasn't addressed to our conversation.
If you want to have a serious conversation, present your side from a much less personal and agressive standpoint. I refuse to be involved in this debate because you belittle, you refuse to give up any ground, and most importantly you are unable to leave emotion out of this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
I didn't edit anything, I cut out the part that wasn't addressed to our conversation.
If you want to have a serious conversation, present your side from a much less personal and agressive standpoint. I refuse to be involved in this debate because you belittle, you refuse to give up any ground, and most importantly you are unable to leave emotion out of this.
Lol good dodge, i was barely aggressive because i cant stand when people point fingers that dont even know enough to do so but dont even realize they are offensive in a neutral way( as in not to being offended because of evolution but rather the way in which you present your argument that clearly lacks any detective work).
Im always willing to give up ground to something that is well thought out, but so far no offense you havn't said anything that couldn't be copied and pasted from the first google search of something like "how evolution disproves the bible" and you wouldnt even have to know anything about the bible to adopt these views.
When i read your posts it's clear you havn't read and really tried to consider the possibilities. Like i said before i stay open to any possibility, i may say i dont think your right but when i see someone whol clearly doesn't understand the bible as many atheist dont it honesty to god makes me sad and angry. I will honestly say i have made no solid commitment to a religion, i follow a religious doctrine but i have yet to solidly commit in 18 years of living. I have yet to do this because i feel i do not know NEARLY enough to make such a decision . I intend to know as much as possible before finally making a ddecision, so i remain open.
Am i the only that feels that way? that you aren't smart enough yet to make such a serious decision? The fact that i know kids in high school that completely denounce the idea of a god is sad to me because i just cannot fathom being able to be so sure that something is incorrect without knowing probably less than 10% about that something.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Religion is just a mean to control and manipulate others, regardless of whether or not it benefits society overall.
If God wanted us to know he exists, he would have made it more obvious.
Thus, if God exists, he clearly has no intention of letting us know.
In a way, I agree with you... But first you have to think of it externally.
Within the boundaries of religious indoctrination is a core fundamental. Faith. It's the driving edge of all religion. It's ultimate answer for any questions or uncertainties asked or imposed.
You aren't going to get me back into the conversation by twisting my words or by attacking the validity of my arguements. I do not believe that God definately does not exist because that requires faith.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
In a way, I agree with you... But first you have to think of it externally.
Within the boundaries of religious indoctrination is a core fundamental. Faith. It's the driving edge of all religion. It's ultimate answer for any questions or uncertainties asked or imposed.
Definitely. I think it would be best described as double edged. On one end you could say, "we aren't meant to understand everything, you just have to have faith that this or that happened this or that way for a reason" but on the other hand one could say " you can chuck everything up to faith." Personally if there is a God then it is just merely a human flaw that we cant accept the fact that there are things we don't understand in the concept of religion, and it's hard to imagine some of the things that happened because of our inability to control anything around us and we have for the most part never seen anything with such a power of control over anything. But if there isn't or wasn't a God then faith is just a way to explain the problems with religion.
It's double edged for us as humans left in the dark on the answer and we may never get that answer in our lifetime as to which edge the sword is really on.
Obalobex, you don't have to respond to anything, what words did i twist? but i guess you cant answer that since you wont "get back into it". Its ok you can stop using propaganda words to make me seem as if im coming at you with a knife. So was i mistaken or did you not ask me to state some flaws in evolution? Thats all i did, if you don't respond it's okay, the flaws i presented will remain until someone comes to explain how they can be interpreted within the evolution theory. I promise im not out to get you lmao, i clearly stated i did not attack you or your argument, i merely pointed out some things wrong with your understanding of the bible and how you clearly don't know enough about the bible to hold a side in a conversation about religion concerning the bible, it can't be called a conversation because if you present so many things that the other party aren't familiar with then it becomes a teaching lesson. And i am man enough to admit i have come across people that actually know a LOT about evolution and it went from a conversation to a science lesson reallllllyyyy quick, i couldn't even comprehend half of some things stated sometimes because their knowledge of the theory was so extensive that i couldn't take it all in at once so trying to actually debate something they said would be like responding to a well thought out position with a big "FUCK YOU" instead of actually admitting they got them. But as i said i try to learn from people, and when i can tell people obviously know waayy more than me about evolution or religion then i stfu and listen, i know several atheists and evolution pros here who i have stfu and listened to and noted that they definitely taught me a thing or two.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Aren't there two or three accounts of genocide in the Bible?
I know of pre-delude and Noah's Arc... How about Sodom and Gomorrah?
Ezekial 16:
48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.
49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
The new testament is God-lite, obviously... But he was quite intolerant in the Oldies. Not to mention the Christian faith specifically attributes one of the causes of its destruction to homosexuality. Just to clarify, they did bad shit, but still... If it weren't for Jesus we'd probably been killed off 3 more times.
Now us, and every generation after these times have been just as bad. Luckily Jesus scape goated all of us. All our sons and daughters.
They did that once, and the Crusades happened. The bulk of Humanity is not ready for that style of religion. They were once, tens of thousands of years ago, but not now.
Of course nobody can win the argument and arguing is stupid, but i do like learning from others sides and thats really cool. conversating is key
Zero, whats 4Chan?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
for s second i thought you said 4kids, The serial killer of good anime.
Btu really god is a supernatural thing you could say, trying to disprove it with science is preety much impossible
Exactly, that is why i think making a firm decision to go atheist based on something like science shows a lot about the character and that in another circumstance or era they would definitely be the person that is a devout blind follower of a religion whether that is good or bad.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
what's sad is no one will know until they actually die, but they can't tell us because there dead :/
Also blindly fallowing anything is bad, keep all options on the table and dont count anything out.
Haha how true. But consider this. Technically if there is ONE religion that is completely right and if they're god was real and it wanted everyone in one religion or they would all be annihilated, following blindly doesn't sound like a bad idea imo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
The one thing I really hate about religious arguments is the ludicrous responses you get from people trying to defend their faith. Me saying that I am "enlightened" and that my god the fluffy chipmunk causes the sun to rise every morning and the sun rising is proof he exists holds as much water as many of the arguments I hear time and time again.
well yes those arguements are complete b.s but i dont honestly hear those that much.
Me either....honestly I've only seen a few people here actually try and valiantly try to defend the concept of religion and most the time it is with validity. At least here in these parts of the interweb. Most seem to be either atheist or certainly on their way and often voice their position and few usually argue really.\
Who are you repsonding to Dicksmackl? I dont remember anyone saying for sure that they felt god existed? And im sorry to be rude, but...so fucking what? There are tons here that say "i dont believe in god one bit, im a full blown atheist" and they get away with it without any religious people being offended. I could care less what someones beliefs are, i may engage them in a discussion or argument on the topic but i would be far form offended. Maybe a few people brave enough to actually say they have faith in a religion isn't so bad in a time where that is becoming very rare.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Another major problem I have with religion, is the sense that people feel they are being noble or righteous for having faith. Faith is an extremely dangerous thing and should NOT be considered honorable. Having faith means that you come to a decision based on feelings, not fact. Faith en masse gives those in charge absolute power, and you know the saying... This extends beyond churches, to governments as well.
I know some German people, and they are good-willed individuals. However fifty years ago millions of Germans had no problem with the genocide of the Jews and even sided with Hitler on that they were a plague needing to be cleansed. Hitler was a very charismatic and determined individual, and many people followed him blindly without question, even though his actions from an outside point of view are appauling. Hitler used his charm and vigilance as well as christianity to launch his own brutal crusade.
We live in a real world, and the fantastical ideal of being a holy 'Paladin' (hey this is a Diablo forum ;)) is just that, fantasy. The simple truth is that those who have faith are taken advantage of, and unfortunately the more synical and questioning people are in the minority.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I dont look for the things wrong with a theory YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A FLAW ROFL. so i did and apparently it made you sad face because you didnt even respond to my response to your own request. I clearly stated that evolution was ok by me as of now, maybe you should read my entire post
In many cases Linkx.....very true, but i still dont see the point. if it's that theres no way the bible could be true cuz of all the cruelty that is plausible, but it could also be that there is agod and it is just the sad world we live in and how we are. Like in song reference and movie reference ive seen many put existence with the idea of god in a very depressing transcendental way of looking at it. Such as "god is just a kid with an ant farm" and things like that. I dont support this idea but ya never know, ya know?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I didn't edit anything, I cut out the part that wasn't addressed to our conversation.
If you want to have a serious conversation, present your side from a much less personal and agressive standpoint. I refuse to be involved in this debate because you belittle, you refuse to give up any ground, and most importantly you are unable to leave emotion out of this.
Im always willing to give up ground to something that is well thought out, but so far no offense you havn't said anything that couldn't be copied and pasted from the first google search of something like "how evolution disproves the bible" and you wouldnt even have to know anything about the bible to adopt these views.
When i read your posts it's clear you havn't read and really tried to consider the possibilities. Like i said before i stay open to any possibility, i may say i dont think your right but when i see someone whol clearly doesn't understand the bible as many atheist dont it honesty to god makes me sad and angry. I will honestly say i have made no solid commitment to a religion, i follow a religious doctrine but i have yet to solidly commit in 18 years of living. I have yet to do this because i feel i do not know NEARLY enough to make such a decision . I intend to know as much as possible before finally making a ddecision, so i remain open.
Am i the only that feels that way? that you aren't smart enough yet to make such a serious decision? The fact that i know kids in high school that completely denounce the idea of a god is sad to me because i just cannot fathom being able to be so sure that something is incorrect without knowing probably less than 10% about that something.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
In a way, I agree with you... But first you have to think of it externally.
Within the boundaries of religious indoctrination is a core fundamental. Faith. It's the driving edge of all religion. It's ultimate answer for any questions or uncertainties asked or imposed.
Definitely. I think it would be best described as double edged. On one end you could say, "we aren't meant to understand everything, you just have to have faith that this or that happened this or that way for a reason" but on the other hand one could say " you can chuck everything up to faith." Personally if there is a God then it is just merely a human flaw that we cant accept the fact that there are things we don't understand in the concept of religion, and it's hard to imagine some of the things that happened because of our inability to control anything around us and we have for the most part never seen anything with such a power of control over anything. But if there isn't or wasn't a God then faith is just a way to explain the problems with religion.
It's double edged for us as humans left in the dark on the answer and we may never get that answer in our lifetime as to which edge the sword is really on.
Obalobex, you don't have to respond to anything, what words did i twist? but i guess you cant answer that since you wont "get back into it". Its ok you can stop using propaganda words to make me seem as if im coming at you with a knife. So was i mistaken or did you not ask me to state some flaws in evolution? Thats all i did, if you don't respond it's okay, the flaws i presented will remain until someone comes to explain how they can be interpreted within the evolution theory. I promise im not out to get you lmao, i clearly stated i did not attack you or your argument, i merely pointed out some things wrong with your understanding of the bible and how you clearly don't know enough about the bible to hold a side in a conversation about religion concerning the bible, it can't be called a conversation because if you present so many things that the other party aren't familiar with then it becomes a teaching lesson. And i am man enough to admit i have come across people that actually know a LOT about evolution and it went from a conversation to a science lesson reallllllyyyy quick, i couldn't even comprehend half of some things stated sometimes because their knowledge of the theory was so extensive that i couldn't take it all in at once so trying to actually debate something they said would be like responding to a well thought out position with a big "FUCK YOU" instead of actually admitting they got them. But as i said i try to learn from people, and when i can tell people obviously know waayy more than me about evolution or religion then i stfu and listen, i know several atheists and evolution pros here who i have stfu and listened to and noted that they definitely taught me a thing or two.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I know of pre-delude and Noah's Arc... How about Sodom and Gomorrah?
Ezekial 16:
48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.
49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
The new testament is God-lite, obviously... But he was quite intolerant in the Oldies. Not to mention the Christian faith specifically attributes one of the causes of its destruction to homosexuality. Just to clarify, they did bad shit, but still... If it weren't for Jesus we'd probably been killed off 3 more times.
Now us, and every generation after these times have been just as bad. Luckily Jesus scape goated all of us. All our sons and daughters.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Zero, whats 4Chan?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Btu really god is a supernatural thing you could say, trying to disprove it with science is preety much impossible
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Exactly, that is why i think making a firm decision to go atheist based on something like science shows a lot about the character and that in another circumstance or era they would definitely be the person that is a devout blind follower of a religion whether that is good or bad.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Also blindly fallowing anything is bad, keep all options on the table and dont count anything out.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Haha how true. But consider this. Technically if there is ONE religion that is completely right and if they're god was real and it wanted everyone in one religion or they would all be annihilated, following blindly doesn't sound like a bad idea imo.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
I don't think it is a good idea to post things like this in forums.
Who are you repsonding to Dicksmackl? I dont remember anyone saying for sure that they felt god existed? And im sorry to be rude, but...so fucking what? There are tons here that say "i dont believe in god one bit, im a full blown atheist" and they get away with it without any religious people being offended. I could care less what someones beliefs are, i may engage them in a discussion or argument on the topic but i would be far form offended. Maybe a few people brave enough to actually say they have faith in a religion isn't so bad in a time where that is becoming very rare.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I know some German people, and they are good-willed individuals. However fifty years ago millions of Germans had no problem with the genocide of the Jews and even sided with Hitler on that they were a plague needing to be cleansed. Hitler was a very charismatic and determined individual, and many people followed him blindly without question, even though his actions from an outside point of view are appauling. Hitler used his charm and vigilance as well as christianity to launch his own brutal crusade.
We live in a real world, and the fantastical ideal of being a holy 'Paladin' (hey this is a Diablo forum ;)) is just that, fantasy. The simple truth is that those who have faith are taken advantage of, and unfortunately the more synical and questioning people are in the minority.